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Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries
Push Interstellar Network
256
   |
Posted - 2013.02.28 07:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just found out about the new skill Armor Honeycombing (been busy with real life) and did some checking it out. When I first saw it I drooled. 25% reduction in plate mass? Hell yeah! That's awesome! Then I did a forum search of Armor Honeycombing to find the patch notes of where it was released and instead I found about a dozen whine threads or "by the numbers" of how it is useless and what not.
I want to start out by saying this:
wtf.
Eve isn't about time, it's about ADVANTAGES. Once you've played Eve for years you'll understand what I mean. You train skills to get advantages. Now I'm just going to use the Armor Honeycombing skill here as an example, but I hope it serves as a good vessel for my thoughts.
The skill itself is a module support skill. That means it affects a certain type of module. Said module can be fitted on any ship. Now to seriously say "but is training it to 5 worth it?" makes me immediately think you're a scrub and because I train it to 5 and you train it to 4 I will do the following better than you when we both have plates fitted:
1) Align faster than you
2) Turn faster than you
3) Accelerate faster than you
4) Have a higher top speed than you
5) Be all-around more nimble than you
Why would you give up a 5% times the number of plates fitted bonus? WHY? This makes no sense to me. I haven't seen a support skill this great in ... a really long time.
At any rate, ever since we dropped learning skills it seems to me people have forgotten that Eve is about advantages. Everyone got their free pass on not having to dump time into their skillsheet and now it seems that they all expect everything on a silver platter. If it's not 5 it's not finished. Once you train something to 5 the only way to do it better is with rigs. The only way to do rigs better is to train them to 5. The only way to improve upon rigs is implants. The only way to use better implants is to train Cybernetics to 5.
I hope you guys see what I'm talking about. If I'm just rambling, sorry for rambling. Just wanted to rattle that off my chest.
Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it.
Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else.
Ingame channel: PUSHX |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
772
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
But then you have to compare if 5% more whatever is worth lacking 20% extra in two other things you gave up because you could have trained two other skills 1-4.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Have a blog, if you care. |
Schmata Bastanold
Keep It Burning Stupid
640
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
While in general I agree with you I think that true advantage comes from setting up correct priorities in your training plan. In many cases it is more beneficial to train bunch of skills to lvl 4 to gain more overall boni to corresponding "system" than just take one particular skill to lvl 5.
Gunnery group comes to mind as a good example.
Common consensus is you need t2 guns and I happen to agree with it. But once you have specialization lvl1 trained taking it up to lvl 5 while neglecting all other support skills that can be trained to level 3 or even 4 in the same time that would take you to train just that one final level of specialization is not very good move from my point of view. With t1 guns but with high supports I will have more firepower than you and it will be applied better than paperdps from ETF.
Armor Honeycombing is quick to train and I will train it to 5 just because I honestly have not so much other things to train for what I am doing right now. But as a newbie a year ago I would stop at 4 and move to other, more contributing skills.
I am not my skills but...
http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
192
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:But then you have to compare if 5% more whatever is worth lacking 20% extra in two other things you gave up because you could have trained two other skills 1-4.
If those are of greater benefit, then by all means, train those two first. That doesn't make honeycombing bad, it just makes it lower priority. |
Psychotic Monk
The Skunkworks
Petition Blizzard
772
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oh yeah, agreed. Honeycombing is most definitely a thing.
Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Have a blog, if you care. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
231
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 08:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
I knew there was something I forgot to train...
|
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
157
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough. |
Degren
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2105
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough.
Armor capitals are disagreeing with you.
Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you.
Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you.
I...I can't think of anything else.
OP is bored/outraged/emotional? -áCheck. -áOP is in high sec? -áCheck. -áOP is in NPC or solo corp? -áCheck. -áOP demands CCP fix the situation? -áCheck. -áLaugh at OP |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
5487
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yes, how quickly they forget.
Ain't that right Grandpa Bill ?
*DeMichael Crimson ques Grandpa Bill to take the stage*
*A stage tech gives DeMichael Crimson an official notice from the Empire Board Of Health*
Well, it seems Grandpa Bill is now resting comfortably in the Twin Lakes Retirement Home due to a wee bit of arthritis acting up. I'm sure he regrets not being here to share his wisdom 'bout the good ole days'. Hopefully he'll be back soon to once again share his vast knowledge with us. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
583
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 09:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote: ... Then I did a forum search ... I found about a dozen whine threads ...
And this thread is a result of the monkey see monkey do effect?
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Whitehound
1043
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 11:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Honey combing is serious.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
484
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 14:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:Eve isn't about time, it's about ADVANTAGES.
I think this is why people get so upset about "blob" warfare. You've spent years training skills, learning the game, pimp fitting your ride... you think you have some newb right where you want him... then... Oh, it was just bait for a blob.
I don't care how many 5% advantages you add, having a couple friends jump into the fight will out trump.
|
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal
The Mockers AO
1203
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 15:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Siigari Kitawa wrote:Eve isn't about time, it's about ADVANTAGES. I think this is why people get so upset about "blob" warfare. You've spent years training skills, learning the game, pimp fitting your ride... you think you have some newb right where you want him... then... Oh, it was just bait for a blob. I don't care how many 5% advantages you add, having a couple friends jump into the fight will out trump.
Yes, because in the "Real world" narcissism fails.
Stroking the ego/ePeen/LOOKHOWCOOLMYSHIPSKILLSAWESOMENESSSAUCEISKWALLETISCUZI"MPLAYINGAVIDEOGAMEIS will always lose to... "Dude, help me shoot this idiot? Kthx!"
And that is how it should be.
Where I am. |
Ptraci
Militaris Industries
Northern Coalition.
1326
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Psychotic Monk wrote:But then you have to compare if 5% more whatever is worth lacking 20% extra in two other things you gave up because you could have trained two other skills 1-4.
If you're not a scrub you have already trained the "other 2 things" to 5 anyway, so your point is not valid. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
911
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough. Then de-prioritize it in your queue, if it's not important to what you're flying. No one requires you to train it...
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
452
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
At any rate, ever since we dropped learning skills it seems to me people have forgotten that Eve is about advantages. Everyone got their free pass on not having to dump time into their skillsheet and now it seems that they all expect everything on a silver platter.
I 'd say you can't blame capsuleers for changing their way of thinking and forgetting the past, the game has altered so much over the years.
Back in the day EvE was a cold, harsh place where you learnt by mistakes / trial and error. These days there's a safety net at every turn. From the safety button to the pop up warnings, to the way every ship in each class must be balanced equally etc. The playerbase has just changed to reflect that - the increasing numbers playing must mean it's a popular way of taking the game. Whether it's true to what the original vision of EvE was....well that's another debate. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2097
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 16:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Going 1m/s faster and aligning 0.1 seconds faster will almost certainly win you every fight
Honeycombing is OP
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Adam Junior
Jester Syndicate
WHY so Seri0Us
137
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 18:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Degren wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough. Armor capitals are disagreeing with you. Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you. Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you. I...I can't think of anything else.
You plate caps? |
ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate
WHY so Seri0Us
1073
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 18:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Adam Junior wrote:Degren wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough. Armor capitals are disagreeing with you. Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you. Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you. I...I can't think of anything else. You plate caps?
Oh dear.
CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
The Renner
Canadian Operations
Yulai Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
ElQuirko wrote:Adam Junior wrote:Degren wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough. Armor capitals are disagreeing with you. Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you. Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you. I...I can't think of anything else. You plate caps? Oh dear.
With armor honeycombing you would have to be crazy not to! |
Felicity Love
STARKRAFT
305
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
I tend to think that these mods are still "evolving"... sooner or later it will get tweaked. Just about everything else has, at some point or another, so just going to wait and see what comes out of the primordial goop next. 
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
471
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:13:00 -
[22] - Quote
Getting module support skills, especially the lengthy ones to level 5 takes a very long time. While training to 5 should be done eventually, if you have others things that you would rather train then saving time is worth losing an extra 5%.
On the otherhand, if you aren't training for anything in particular and just training support skills to train support skills, getting it to level 5 is a good idea.
I accidentally my assets, is this bad?-á |
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
84
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 21:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Liked
Oderint Dum Metuant |
Khergit Deserters
746
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 22:13:00 -
[24] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yes, how quickly they forget. Ain't that right Grandpa Bill ? *DeMichael Crimson ques Grandpa Bill to take the stage**A stage tech gives DeMichael Crimson an official notice from the Empire Board Of Health*
Well, it seems Grandpa Bill is now resting comfortably in the Twin Lakes Retirement Home due to a wee bit of arthritis acting up. I'm sure he regrets not being here to share his wisdom 'bout the good ole days'. Hopefully he'll be back soon to once again share his vast knowledge with us.
Here's wishing Grandpa Bill a quick recovery. Maybe when this rainy whether is done with his arthritis will quit acting up on him. Think sending a pecan pie down to the retirement home would be a good idea, or would something a little softer be better?
If you help someone when they're in trouble, they will remember you when they're in trouble again.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3654
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 22:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Khergit Deserters wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:Yes, how quickly they forget. Ain't that right Grandpa Bill ? *DeMichael Crimson ques Grandpa Bill to take the stage**A stage tech gives DeMichael Crimson an official notice from the Empire Board Of Health*
Well, it seems Grandpa Bill is now resting comfortably in the Twin Lakes Retirement Home due to a wee bit of arthritis acting up. I'm sure he regrets not being here to share his wisdom 'bout the good ole days'. Hopefully he'll be back soon to once again share his vast knowledge with us. Here's wishing Grandpa Bill a quick recovery. Maybe when this rainy whether is done with his arthritis will quit acting up on him. Think sending a pecan pie down to the retirement home would be a good idea, or would something a little softer be better?
He told me Pecan pie used to be one of his favorites, but now-a-days the pecans get stuck under his dentures and it's so rich it makes him awfully irregular.
His current favorite is lime sherbert. The cold does'nt bother his teeth anymore now that they are all store bought.
He's also fond of sweet corn bread soaking in a big glass of buttermilk.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Degren
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2106
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 05:01:00 -
[26] - Quote
Adam Junior wrote:Degren wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:The point is.... it's a basically irrelevant skill. & doesn't do what it was claiming to do.
It's about as much use as Explosive Shield Compensation is now for example.
It's not 'useless' but the actual game difference is so tiny. And it could have just been built into the base plates easily enough. Armor capitals are disagreeing with you. Armor ships that fit cov ops cloaks (and their friendly black ops pilots) are disagreeing with you. Gallente brawler ships are disagreeing with you. I...I can't think of anything else. You plate caps?
It's almost like...I don't agree with op.
OP is bored/outraged/emotional? -áCheck. -áOP is in high sec? -áCheck. -áOP is in NPC or solo corp? -áCheck. -áOP demands CCP fix the situation? -áCheck. -áLaugh at OP |
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