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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
26
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Posted - 2011.10.13 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi CCP.
I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:
- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?
- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?
- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.
- When is the next Unholy Rage?
Thanks for your attention. |
Prince Kobol
51
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Posted - 2011.10.13 15:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.
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Ejit
STD contractors
6
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Posted - 2011.10.13 15:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shadowsword wrote:Hi CCP.
I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:
- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?
- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?
- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.
- When is the next Unholy Rage?
Thanks for your attention.
I don't think CCP will ever release any concrete details on their anti RMT efforts. Especially regarding software tools or staff devoted to the fight.
I personally believe CCP invests very little manpower, time and effort in the RMT war. Especially since some CCP staff have their fingers in the RMT pie as rumoured.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
128
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Posted - 2011.10.13 16:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ejit wrote:Shadowsword wrote:Hi CCP.
I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:
- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?
- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?
- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.
- When is the next Unholy Rage?
Thanks for your attention. I don't think CCP will ever release any concrete details on their anti RMT efforts. Especially regarding software tools or staff devoted to the fight. I personally believe CCP invests very little manpower, time and effort in the RMT war. Especially since some CCP staff have their fingers in the RMT pie as rumoured.
I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory.
- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks. - We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly - Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior. - Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph.
To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change.
Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool.
This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.
Thanks! |
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Demon Azrakel
Defiant.. Narwhals Ate My Duck
35
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Posted - 2011.10.13 16:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ejit wrote:Shadowsword wrote:Hi CCP.
I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:
- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?
- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?
- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.
- When is the next Unholy Rage?
Thanks for your attention. I don't think CCP will ever release any concrete details on their anti RMT efforts. Especially regarding software tools or staff devoted to the fight. I personally believe CCP invests very little manpower, time and effort in the RMT war. Especially since some CCP staff have their fingers in the RMT pie as rumoured. I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory. - We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks. - We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly - Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior. - Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph. To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change. Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool. This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here. Thanks!
But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money... |
Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
27
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Posted - 2011.10.13 16:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory.
- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks. - We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly - Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior. - Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph.
To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change.
Well, thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'll point out that keeping things like the number of security employees secret, while probably marginally beneficial to their efficiency, might have adverse effects that far outweight the benefit. Like the growing trend to believe, wether it's true or not, that null-sec is more and more dominated by RMT and that CCP do nothing about it... |
Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
29
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Posted - 2011.10.13 16:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shadowsword wrote:Well, thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'll point out that keeping things like the number of security employees secret, while probably marginally beneficial to their efficiency, might have adverse effects that far outweight the benefit. Like the growing trend to believe, wether it's true or not, that null-sec is more and more dominated by RMT and that CCP do nothing about it...
It irrelevant how many people are actually involved in RMT/bot detection. Even if it's ONLY CCP Sreegs, if the tools he develops are effective the job's being done.
The actual number of RMTer/botters is likely far less that you believe, simply because some people tend to be paranoid and see conspiracies and corruption everywhere, even when it's not. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
77
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 16:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Demon Azrakel wrote:
But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...
But that's not a EULA violation. No CCP employee gets money for ISK when a player buys a PLEX for Real money.
And remember CCP is not bound by the EULA, it only applies to subscribers. For example look at the Time Dialation video and you will be several bots running.
However CCP employees are bound by it when they are playing. Ive heard rumors that the Internal Affairs people have no sense of humor when it comes to CCP employees doing something wrong. CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
367
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory. True
CCP Sreegs wrote:- We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks. You are all alone, working in an empty cubicle with no natural sunlight reaching your desk, right? (the few months of the year when sunlight can be found)
CCP Sreegs wrote:Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool. What do we do if we have evidence that IA is in on the RMT money laundering scheme?
And half of Svalbard is in russian hands so the 'russian gold-farmer mafia' has more than a little influence in the north, as such we can never know if CCP has, or has not, been taken over and turned into a vodka-subsidies based organization.
CCP Sreegs wrote:This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here. No one here is suggesting that CCP Shadow has anything to do with these allegations. Shame on you for dragging him into this. 84,000 AUR ($420) spent on NeX store for Troll and Profit. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 16:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool.
This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.
Thanks!
PLEX?
Wub You Fallout! Peoplez are stupid. NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
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Kengutsi Akira
33
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Posted - 2011.10.13 16:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.
yup, DRF disappears overnight, imagine that power vaccum and no more goons O.o
Vincent Athena wrote:Demon Azrakel wrote:
But, but, CCP is selling gametime, a valuable good in the EVE universe, for real money...
But that's not a EULA violation. No CCP employee gets money for ISK when a player buys a PLEX for Real money. And remember CCP is not bound by the EULA, it only applies to subscribers. For example look at the Time Dialation video and you will be several bots running. However CCP employees are bound by it when they are playing. Ive heard rumors that the Internal Affairs people have no sense of humor when it comes to CCP employees doing something wrong.
Gee i wonder why... it only becomes a PR friggin nightmare every time a CCP is caught doing something wrong |
Kengutsi Akira
33
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Posted - 2011.10.13 16:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool. What do we do if we have evidence that IA is in on the RMT money laundering scheme? And half of Svalbard is in russian hands so the 'russian gold-farmer mafia' has more than a little influence in the north, as such we can never know if CCP has, or has not, been taken over and turned into a vodka-subsidies based organization. CCP Sreegs wrote:This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.
Yes, theres nothing shadowwy about what ppl are seeing in broad daylight. like when you recruit CCP members from corps alleged to be the biggest sources OF RMT in the game. Then put them in charge OF detecting the RMT lol
and ppl wonder why we will never see those numbers |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
68
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 16:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kengutsi Akira wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.
yup, DRF disappears overnight, imagine that power vaccum and no more goons O.o
Where do you people come up with this stuff. Even if there was some mysterious RMT trading going on, I mean... how does it even negatively affect you again? The only people that have any reason to be worried about RMT are CCP.
RMT ruins their business - not yours. Not your gametime or your actions. In the end, if you're a small little corp, then RMT isn't going to affect you because you're probably not going up against an opponent that RMT would either not make it any easier nor any more difficult for you to fight. IF you're a mega-null sec alliance block, you have so much assets, that if someone wants to blow their RL Money on RMT trying to fight you they're just going to get stomped.
The accusations of NC doing RMT by DRF are interesting, however I'd like to know how/why they think that... which is the one thing they didn't address. The NC was an interesting situation though, and I definitely think some things could have been done better on that level by CCP in terms of null sec development decisions.
NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
Kengutsi Akira
33
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Kengutsi Akira wrote:Prince Kobol wrote:look.. CCP will never win the war on RMT because that would mean banning most of null sec and half of high sec.
yup, DRF disappears overnight, imagine that power vaccum and no more goons O.o The accusations of NC doing RMT by DRF are interesting, however I'd like to know how/why they think that... which is the one thing they didn't address. The NC was an interesting situation though, and I definitely think some things could have been done better on that level by CCP in terms of null sec development decisions.
please point out where i said anything about NC then point out the part where I accused DRF of doing it instead
get off the soapbox please, I wasnt talking to/about you
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
563
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:
The accusations of NC doing RMT by DRF are interesting, however I'd like to know how/why they think that...
Well I think that came from when the list of customers of one of the largest ISK-selling organisations got leaked and most of their largest buyers were... in the NC.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
60
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ejit wrote:Shadowsword wrote:Hi CCP.
I'd like to know, and I'm sure I'm not the only one:
- How many CCP employees are assigned to actively looking for bot operations? I mean not simply waiting to receive reports, but rather things like watching 0.0 mining operations to see if they are done by humans and wallet transactions from hardcore 0.0 ratters?
- Do you have filters in place to bring to your attention accounts that stay logged almost permanently?
- Will you ever stop being so lenient with buyers and permaban them at first offense? Just taking away the isks isn't much of a detterent.
- When is the next Unholy Rage?
Thanks for your attention. I don't think CCP will ever release any concrete details on their anti RMT efforts. Especially regarding software tools or staff devoted to the fight. I personally believe CCP invests very little manpower, time and effort in the RMT war. Especially since some CCP staff have their fingers in the RMT pie as rumoured. I'll address this as well as possible though to be frank I don't think the answer is one you'll find 100% satisfactory. - We are not going to divulge numbers of employees devoted to security tasks. - We have old and continue to implement new detections for various types of activity regularly - Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior. - Never. Security is a process not a powerpoint presentation or a graph. To elaborate on the last point however it is likely that we'll be expressing some more information to you in the near future regarding certain aspects of this subject. I can't really elaborate because timing and such are subject to change. Regarding insinuations of staff members being involved in RMT you may report allegations of misconduct to IA. Otherwise it would be pretty peachy if you would refrain from making allegations you have absolutely no reason to believe. If you have a reason to believe it and want it to stop I can only assume you'd report it. Otherwise the alternative is that you're just trying to cause trouble and that makes my job harder which is pretty uncool. This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here. Thanks!
Goon alt spotted. ^^
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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
37
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Posted - 2011.10.13 17:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:- Leniency is relative. The numbers we've been collecting show that the current system of administrative actions is effective at curbing the behavior. Leaving buyers apart, what about the bots that farm for themselves? This maybe affects the behavior on caught botters, but it encourages a try as you can keep the winnings and the penance is not that high. That said, permaban at first strike is not something you want to do, but a penalty on the wallet as well as on time should be in order if you don't want every doubting player to try.
Some of them may even succeed so much that they don't need to bot anymore when caught and can live off the money for a long time. Current policies work fine on RMT, but are not really a deterrent when you think about private bots, they have nothing to lose, just a few weeks of game time with a guaranteed irreversible gain in the isks they made already. What do you think, Sreegs? Did I missed something in the penalties for private bots or does it work that way? |
Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
27
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote: It irrelevant how many people are actually involved in RMT/bot detection. Even if it's ONLY CCP Sreegs, if the tools he develops are effective the job's being done.
However effective the tool, it's still a mindless one, you need an human to take time to check the results. And more humans to check on things you don't have a tool for. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
612
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
its pretty hilarious to see people cowering in 1.0 systems afraid to leave talking confidently about what goes on in 0.0 |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
34
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 17:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
This isn't the "make shadowy insinuations about CCP staff forum" and nothing will get resolved by doing such here.
Thanks!
If this is the case, then a forum ban to the fools who keep doing it seems to be in order.
And a ban on the credit card, not the account, would be the way to go. |
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Ilkahn
United Aerospace Co-op
2
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Posted - 2011.10.13 17:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
*Gets popcorn* *Sits on couch and tunes Viewer to "Concords Entertainment Tonight" * *Watches the CCP Concord Agents panel face off with the New Eden Tea Party of Capsuleers* *Throws back some popcorn* *Turns up volume and pops Quafe top* |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
128
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Posted - 2011.10.13 17:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
Shadowsword wrote:
Well, thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'll point out that keeping things like the number of security employees secret, while probably marginally beneficial to their efficiency, might have adverse effects that far outweight the benefit. Like the growing trend to believe, wether it's true or not, that null-sec is more and more dominated by RMT and that CCP do nothing about it...
I think that working on creative ways to report on that information would be far more effective to the playerbase than telling you how many people touch the problem, which is kinda the point. Communication about botting and RMT is certainly something we intend to be more open about in the future. I think as an example, I've given talks that have addressed the subject in a few venues in the past year but that information has never made its way to the forums, so I think maybe it's time to distill some of that into a blog and get it out to you guys to digest. |
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Piar Stolpien
0
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Posted - 2011.10.13 18:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote: And half of Svalbard is in russian hands so the 'russian gold-farmer mafia' has more than a little influence in the north, as such we can never know if CCP has, or has not, been taken over and turned into a vodka-subsidies based organization.
lol |
Astrid Stjerna
Teraa Matar
20
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Posted - 2011.10.13 18:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Shadowsword wrote: Well, thanks for taking the time to answer, but I'll point out that keeping things like the number of security employees secret, while probably marginally beneficial to their efficiency, might have adverse effects that far outweight the benefit. Like the growing trend to believe, wether it's true or not, that null-sec is more and more dominated by RMT and that CCP do nothing about it...
Keeping numbers confidential serves a valid purpose: you're never certain that you've got all of them tied up with a distraction, so it's that much harder to hide. |
Comrade Commizzar
Eve Revolutionary Army
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:its pretty hilarious to see people cowering in 1.0 systems afraid to leave talking confidently about what goes on in 0.0
It's pretty hilarious to hear a slave of one of the largest Zero Plantations like yourself speak in defense of your Slave Masters.
BTW, the name of your Corp seems appropriate given that you are taking it in the arse daily. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
69
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
You guys give Sreegs a break. He's in a very difficult position, alone and unappreciated. On the one had he's responsible for maintaining security. On the other, he has to insure that his efforts don't adversely affect CCP's own profits from unofficially approved RMT operations within Goon and DRF.
That's a tight rope that no man should have to bear. Sreegs, if you need a shoulder sometime, I'm here for ya man! We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
615
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Comrade Commizzar wrote:Weaselior wrote:its pretty hilarious to see people cowering in 1.0 systems afraid to leave talking confidently about what goes on in 0.0 It's pretty hilarious to hear a slave of one of the largest Zero Plantations like yourself speak in defense of your Slave Masters. BTW, the name of your Corp seems appropriate given that you are taking it in the arse daily.
i'm the cfo of goonswarm |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
615
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
i do like the idea of zero plantations and slave masters though
we have a position open in the getting whipped department, I'll pass your resume along |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
615
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
how are your ice mining skills, and your complaining in local when goons blow you up for funsies skills |
Ugleb
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
41
|
Posted - 2011.10.13 18:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:What do we do if we have evidence that IA is in on the RMT money laundering scheme?
Quit giving a bent company your time and money and go play something else?
Or, you know, send the evidence to Hilmar. If the CEO of the company is in on it too then you'll just have to accept that everyone is indeed out to get you. http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/ |
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