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Drathius
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Drathius on 08/08/2005 13:21:58
There has been this dude in my system lately stealing people's
ore cans and talking trash in local. It's a 0.9, so i cant use secure cans. Why is there a way in the game for people to steal millions of credits of property without the owner being able to defend it? CCP should either let me use secure cans or let me blow that guys indy to kingdom come if he messes with my cans. I dont have a problem with pirates realy. If they can beat me they deserve my loot, but at least i can fight back. Anyone else think that CCP should make this an exploit or preferably make it so i can kill him for taking my stuff?
PS. How the heck do i get my picture to show up in my forum posts?
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:22:00 -
[2]
Yarr, you should be moving to less secure space. Mine in .4 and rarely do you get your can looted.
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Drathius
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:23:00 -
[3]
And rarely do i have enough guns fitted while mining to fight off  's
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:24:00 -
[4]
Secure cans.
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Drathius
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:27:00 -
[5]
Read the post before replying bro. It's a 0.9 and secure cans can only be used in 0.7 or under.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:38:00 -
[6]
Why not mine in a 0.7? u get better ores as well, to be honest this topic has been brought up many many times before and all u will get is flamed by everyone 
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:38:00 -
[7]
Your picture will show on the forums in a couple of days max.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
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Drathius
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Drathius on 08/08/2005 13:47:06
Because my corp is based in this system? Besides that does anyone else see the insanity in telling me to move to a LESS secure system if i want more security?! CCP realy needs to either allow secure cans in high security or allow me to vaporize anyone stealing from nongroup noncorp cans.
Edit: oh, and thanks eris.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
migwar
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:49:00 -
[9]
Definatly mine in an 0.7. i have a scythe that i mine with into a secure container, With good BMs i just warp to station and get my punisher which easily handles the rats. I never did mine in secure space so i have never had to worry about ore thieves. If you must mine in 0.9 buddy up with a hauler you will find it more profitable anyway.
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:49:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Drathius
Edited by: Drathius on 08/08/2005 13:47:06
Because my corp is based in this system? Besides that does anyone else see the insanity in telling me to move to a LESS secure system if i want more security?! CCP realy needs to either allow secure cans in high security or allow me to vaporize anyone stealing from nongroup noncorp cans.
Edit: oh, and thanks eris.
high security space is not meant to be such a money machine: try moving to lower security space to make more profit (without people stealing your ore ;) )
See the sticky on this very forum about how to beat the ore theives: it has a lot of tips which may come in useful for you.
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Take from the rich and give to me |
Drathius
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Posted - 2005.08.08 13:59:00 -
[11]
A: Low security space is a money machine not high. Low security has POS's and better ores to mine and better rats to fight.
B: It is secure space, it is supposed to be secure. It is already less profitable.
C: It makes no sense to the story to not be allowed to protect my ore and how am i supposed to believe concord wouldnt do anything to a blatant thief. Even if they dont let me shoot him he should take a drop in security so concord will eventualy deal with him.
D: It is completely retarded that SECURE cans cant be used in SECURE space. The restriction should be the opposite. You should only be allowed to use secure cans in 0.5 or over. You're supposed to be stolen from in unsecure space and in that unsecure space you can kill thiefs anyway
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.08.08 14:16:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Dionysus Davinci on 08/08/2005 14:16:34
Once upon a time we had secure cans in high security space. We had massive can litter and Apocs where strip mining entire fields with their 'staked' secure cans.
It was massive crap fest. If you want to make more money and stop ore theiving use secure cans and mine in low security space.
Also, you're in a newbie corp. So what corp :/
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:29:00 -
[13]
Read the "how to avoid ore thieves" sticky.
Theres thousands of systems in EVE.
Move to a quieter one. Also read in the FAQ why ore theft is allowed.
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Trina Tron
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Posted - 2005.08.08 16:41:00 -
[14]
Well no one forced you to 1) jetsion it into space or 2) mining in a supper carebare system where you cant use secure cans. S either 1) stop being lazy and go back to the station each time your holds full and stop complain about how ccp dosent have anyway to secure your ore when it dose or 2) move to omg .6 system where concord will still protect you.
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Akirium
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Secure cans.
learn to read the post moron, its a 0.9 sec system....scc's can't be used...
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Akirium
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Drathius
Edited by: Drathius on 08/08/2005 13:21:58
There has been this dude in my system lately stealing people's
ore cans and talking trash in local. It's a 0.9, so i cant use secure cans. Why is there a way in the game for people to steal millions of credits of property without the owner being able to defend it? CCP should either let me use secure cans or let me blow that guys indy to kingdom come if he messes with my cans. I dont have a problem with pirates realy. If they can beat me they deserve my loot, but at least i can fight back. Anyone else think that CCP should make this an exploit or preferably make it so i can kill him for taking my stuff?
PS. How the heck do i get my picture to show up in my forum posts?
when in high sec systems, have a buddy in a hauler sit there while you mine into the can, and your buddy removes it as soon as you put it in. Use a bookmark to hold the can from popping(call it "pop stop" or some such name). The thieves can't steal the ore if it is in the hauler...when hauler is gone, just wait until they return to continue mining...easy...
Don't listen to those that tell you to head to 0.4 and below sec systems, they are just looking for easy kills .
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Akirium
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Posted - 2005.08.08 17:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Drathius
A: Low security space is a money machine not high. Low security has POS's and better ores to mine and better rats to fight.
B: It is secure space, it is supposed to be secure. It is already less profitable.
C: It makes no sense to the story to not be allowed to protect my ore and how am i supposed to believe concord wouldnt do anything to a blatant thief. Even if they dont let me shoot him he should take a drop in security so concord will eventualy deal with him.
D: It is completely retarded that SECURE cans cant be used in SECURE space. The restriction should be the opposite. You should only be allowed to use secure cans in 0.5 or over. You're supposed to be stolen from in unsecure space and in that unsecure space you can kill thiefs anyway
one thing to remember above all else:
CCP caters to the griefers and PVP faction of it's playerbase.
Before some halfbrained moron spouts off that Eve is all PVP;
PVP means - FIGHTING, shooting others.
PVP is only an ASPECT of the game, not what it revolves around.
As long as CCP has the attitude that the only way the game can be fun is to make griefing by any means easy for that tiny but loud little group of griefers (they whine the most, and the longest, even to the point of spamming any dev chat with pointless bullocks until they get their way), then Eve will be full of griefing twits.
If you don't like they way Eve and the Dev's/GM's are pushing the game, use that cancelation button to let them know how you feel.
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Rover Vitesse
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Posted - 2005.08.08 18:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drathius
Because my corp is based in this system? .
Viziam is an NPC corp last time I checked. Am I missing something here?
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.08.08 19:21:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Akirium
Don't listen to those that tell you to head to 0.4 and below sec systems, they are just looking for easy kills .
You are more then fine mining alone in a .4 system or below. You just need to watch local.
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Elroy Cruise
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Posted - 2005.08.08 19:44:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Elroy Cruise on 08/08/2005 19:47:05
Edited by: Elroy Cruise on 08/08/2005 19:46:17
[edited for spelling]
Drathius: you seem to miss an essential point here:
Mining in jet cans is not an intended feature, it's an exploitative use of a mechanic originally designed to allow ship to ship transfer of cargo.
It was left in, partly because this exploit got "naturally" balanced out by the ability to ore steal from said cans.
You can use secure cans in <.8, which grants more safety, or get assistance from a hauler for more capacity (yet higher risk of seeing the hauler popped - compared to a secure can).
You can't use secure cans in very high sec, but the odds of your hauler getting popped get lower, too.
Short version: get a hauler to drop your yield to, or exploit jet cans at the risk of petty thieves counter exploiting this unintended feature at your detriment.
Cheers,
Elroy.
PS: .7 isn't that dangerous, really. 
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N.A.G.A Scout, bookie specialist, and diagnosed drone maniac. |
Lord Kronos
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Posted - 2005.08.08 22:49:00 -
[21]
What u ask from ccp will never get answered and things will remain as they are for one reason : MACROMINING danger!!!
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.08 23:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akirium
Originally by: Drathius
A: Low security space is a money machine not high. Low security has POS's and better ores to mine and better rats to fight.
B: It is secure space, it is supposed to be secure. It is already less profitable.
C: It makes no sense to the story to not be allowed to protect my ore and how am i supposed to believe concord wouldnt do anything to a blatant thief. Even if they dont let me shoot him he should take a drop in security so concord will eventualy deal with him.
D: It is completely retarded that SECURE cans cant be used in SECURE space. The restriction should be the opposite. You should only be allowed to use secure cans in 0.5 or over. You're supposed to be stolen from in unsecure space and in that unsecure space you can kill thiefs anyway
one thing to remember above all else:
CCP caters to the griefers and PVP faction of it's playerbase.
No, it caters to everyone else. The PvPers are the most neglected part of EVE, IMO.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
Viceroy
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Posted - 2005.08.08 23:44:00 -
[23]
Use secure cans. If you can't, that means the system you're in caters newbies, who due to their nature mine into their cargo holds and empty them. If you want to leech on newbie space, tough luck I'm afraid. You'll have to face the justice of the ore-liberation squads who will proudly claim the ore YOU stole from newbies.
__________________________
Finite Horizon
Your end is our beginning.
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C0NC0RD C0MMANDER
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Posted - 2005.08.09 06:57:00 -
[24]
Quote:
CCP caters to the griefers and PVP faction of it's playerbase.
I think CCP does play subtle favorites here and there, and I am perfectly fine with that. If they were paying for it... to which they are not!
I think the game should take its own form and should develop and expand according to what the consumers want.
With consecutive patches I've seen negative changes that indicate CCP does not have an effective developemental plan and a vision for progressive developement for the future.
-If carebears want to mine in secure cans in sec space... give it to them.
-I liked Yulai as a major hub... I could get all my one stop shopping done there.
-Nerfs of any sort... we spent a lot of time training for those skills, and then a new patch comes out, now we need specialization skills and what we had before suddenly doesn't work the way it used to. Thats called being "Ripped Off".
-I could care less if there is never another patch again. There is enough content for years to come.
I could go on... but loosing your interest is not my goal.
MMORPG is not for the narrow minded. EVE is a great game! But, what got CCP to this point of success will not keep them here. Its time for a new way of thinking. The game has become to big for small minded visions.
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piercer
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Posted - 2005.08.09 07:33:00 -
[25]
go to a 0.5.
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Vogon
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Posted - 2005.08.09 08:14:00 -
[26]
What Viceroy said, so eloquently put as usual...
www.vogon.homestead.com
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.09 08:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: C0NC0RD C0MMANDER
I think the game should take its own form and should develop and expand according to what the consumers want.
Quite possibly the worst suggestion made on the forums, ever.
CCP provide a product.
If you like it, buy it.
If you don't, don't.
Catering to the consumer!
Everyone would play a game where they can't die but everyone else can.
Way to go.
Paradox 4tw!
Seriously, this is a single shard MMOG, you can't give people what they want without considering how it affects everything else.
CCP should stop listening to the community, and just put the 23 in charge of the "think tank".
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2005.08.09 08:24:00 -
[28]
Umm, If I remember correctly, raising your anchoring let you drop cans in secure space. Anchoring lvl 4 lets you drop in 0.9 space if I remember correctly....
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Rodge
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Umm, If I remember correctly, raising your anchoring let you drop cans in secure space. Anchoring lvl 4 lets you drop in 0.9 space if I remember correctly....
I'm afraid you don't remember correctly.
No matter what skills you have, you can never anchor any kind of container in 0.9 or 1.0 systems anymore.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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Drathius
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:43:00 -
[30]
Right i'm in viziam. It's not like its common for people to have uncorp alts in eve To the people saying to move to 0.7 like i said if i want to mine with my corp it's not realy an option. Apart from that i'm not realy asking for secure cans in 0.9. I'd much rather they either take a security hit for stealing with concord sitting there watching them or that i just be allowed to shoot them. I think people should be able to steal your ore, but i also dont think they should be 100% immune to punishment. Anyway, it's obvious from the way half the people didnt read my posts, and the other half are repeating the exact same thing as each other and missing the point completely, that i might as well just give up.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.08.09 10:53:00 -
[31]
Drathius honey, this mining op of yours sounds VERY interesting.... where did you say it is again?
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Lyra VX
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Posted - 2005.08.09 11:00:00 -
[32]
Sigh. The response to this question has even been stickied, but noooooo, people still *****.
Jetcans were never intended to be used this way. If anything, that's the exploit. CCP allow it because it does increase mining productivity - at the risk of the ore being stolen. Either mine into your cargohold with 100% safety, or accept the risk of mining into a can.
Secure cans are not allowed in high sec space because people were anchoring them everywhere as adverts, which was lagging everyone to hell.
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2005.08.09 13:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Lyra VX
Secure cans are not allowed in high sec space because people were anchoring them everywhere as adverts, which was lagging everyone to hell.
At the risk of letting the cat out of the bag, there is a system which had kernite and a 0.9 sec status, perhaps many systems. I will not mention this paticular system here, but after its discovery been made public a few weeks ago, overnight dozens of secure cans appeared, despite the restriction. And these were anchored cans, not just a jettisoned/launched secure cans. This means, via exploit or no, it is possible to drop secure cans in 0.9 space.
I guess an easy way to clean up is to automaticaly make all secure cans in 0.9 or higher unanchor themselves after 24 hours. This means that carebears can use their cans in the short term, and can spamming will be cleared up the good old fashioned way, thus letting the less reputable players play garbage collectors to recycle unanchored cans as reqired.
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Ogadei
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Posted - 2005.08.09 14:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Read the "how to avoid ore thieves" sticky.
Theres thousands of systems in EVE.
Move to a quieter one. Also read in the FAQ why ore theft is allowed.
Like she said, move to a quieter one. There are balanced methods to manage your mining ops, you just have to apply yourself.
It is very satisfying to target and nuke an ore thief in low sec space. You'll find yourself wondering if he has friends...and how long it will take them to arrive...and should you move along...what strategy should I use...etc. This is the sort of thing keeps this game from becoming a mining simulator. Gots to be thinkin' about how you'll outwit the thievin' bastages.
Geronimo was a friend of mine...
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Ashley Sky
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Posted - 2005.08.09 22:07:00 -
[35]
This type of advice is exactly what I like to base my evolving ore thief strategies on to keep things fresh.
Lately I've been enjoying targetting these "quiet systems" a few jumps away from the highway, to the horror of my victims. 0.6's and 0.5s so peaceful and serene with their carebear corp mining ops. It's a great way to unwind. 
It is a little harder to find targets in 0.5s (kind of like pirating), but because of advice given in these threads, they don't expect ore thieves to find them there, so they are usually taken completely by surprise.
I find that I get attacked in these systems much more often, by victims blinded by rage. Lucky for my transport ship that's no problem. Concord still comes to the rescue.
I can't imagine why someone would try to "steal" ore in < 0.4 security systems. To risk flying a hauler here would be just plain stupid when you could use a Gankageddon and simply blow up your targets, ransom them, etc... if and when you can find them at all. The bore of hauling their minerals from low sec systems for sale is more than enough to deter even the most hardened ore thief.
Coming to a 0.5 system near you... http://ashleysky.blogspot.com/
Originally by: Ogadei
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Read the "how to avoid ore thieves" sticky.
Theres thousands of systems in EVE.
Move to a quieter one. Also read in the FAQ why ore theft is allowed.
Like she said, move to a quieter one. There are balanced methods to manage your mining ops, you just have to apply yourself.
It is very satisfying to target and nuke an ore thief in low sec space. You'll find yourself wondering if he has friends...and how long it will take them to arrive...and should you move along...what strategy should I use...etc. This is the sort of thing keeps this game from becoming a mining simulator. Gots to be thinkin' about how you'll outwit the thievin' bastages.
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C0NC0RD C0MMANDER
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Posted - 2005.08.10 03:40:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Rodge
CCP bought the servers, pays the developers/GMs, pays for software licenses. They pay out a lot more per month than any of us do individually...
Initially they did buy all the hardware and developed the software. But now they have made thier money back many fold because of us. It is only becuase of us they they continue to survive.
Originally by: Rodge
CCP makes the game and it will follow their vision of how it will develop. You think you can do better? Buy a couple of servers, a copy of Visual Studio and lets see what you come up with?
I personally feel I could not do better... it is beyond my abbilities. However, I could build a better management and developement team that knows how to please its consumers.
Originally by: Rodge
Carebears want "pvp - no" flags, pirates want to be able to shoot anyone, anywhere.
I'd like to see insurance removed completely, yet other people want default 100% insurance on all ships and insurance on modules.
All views are valid, but all contradict each other.
As Eve sits on a single shard, there has to be rules that bind everyone, not just one section of the playerbase. CCP does a very good job in catering to all sides, yet staying true to their vision of how they want the game to evolve.
I agree Rodge, accept with the part to catering to all sides. In CCP's attempt to do so they have only strengthened alienation between players and themselves. We look to them for leadership, and part of leadership is making concreate decisions.
Originally by: Rodge
Wow, a few big words to try and emphasise your point. Unfortunately, it's all quite incorrect.
From what I've seen, CCP has a vision of the future of Eve, where control is put into the hands of the players a lot more than it is today.
Eve is the most incredible game on the market today, because no-one in CCP tells you what to do in the game. You can do anything you want. You can make a difference in the game. CCP constantly moves the game forward and allows people more tools to do this.
Alas, CCP does try to tell me what to do in the game. Just today in the news its says we'll be punished if we use light drones in an attack on a POS, they say its an exploit. Why should they punish me for a problem they created and is available for anyone to do?
Originally by: Rodge
Nonsense, do you know what happened when this was possible? Asteroid fields full of macromining Apocs.
I like that idea Rodge! Even better, Why doesen't CCP make Macroing a skill not too far out of reach of the noobs? The growth in the eve economy would be magnificant, interest in mining would be in increase. Besides, mining is F'n boring as it is, macroing would be the next logical step.
Originally by: Rodge
Regional markets, ever heard of the concept? I think it's amazing that more market hubs have opened and there's not just one station in the galaxy where you go to for everything.
*cough* Walmart
Originally by: C0NC0RD C0MMANDER
Nerfs of any sort... we spent a lot of time training for those skills, and then a new patch comes out, now we need specialization skills and what we had before suddenly doesn't work the way it used to. Thats called being "Ripped Off".
Originally by: Rodge
*Yawn* I take it what you're saying here is that "I can't solo L4 missions in my Raven anymore, change it now!!!"
Missions are not for me, but I feel for those who trained up rails to find out that missiles were better, then trained up missiles to only later find out they're gonna be nerfed later. what a waste of time. But, the carrot did look tasty!
Originally by: Rodge
I don't think that there's been a single patch recently that I haven't been very excited about one aspect or another of.
In case you didn't know, there's a new big project being started called Kali that will add a tonne of new content to Eve.
I was dissapointed with Shiva and Cold War, none of the changes possitively affected me... and many others. Kali? Bah.
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PsyBoRG
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Posted - 2005.08.10 04:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: C0NC0RD C0MMANDER
-If carebears want to mine in secure cans in sec space... give it to them.
-I liked Yulai as a major hub... I could get all my one stop shopping done there.
-Nerfs of any sort... we spent a lot of time training for those skills, and then a new patch comes out, now we need specialization skills and what we had before suddenly doesn't work the way it used to. Thats called being "Ripped Off".
-I could care less if there is never another patch again. There is enough content for years to come.
great logic there so the first thing all us pirates would want is to remove all sec rating so everything was 0.0 hey im sure that would be fun for a couple of weeks but kinda unbalancing dont ya think???
Pay me!!!!!!1111111 |
TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2005.08.10 09:06:00 -
[38]
Surely Ore theft is a valid playstyle, If you get to use cans in Greater than 0.7 He has no Game the way he wants to play it.
At least you get 0.7 - 0.5 Which has alot better ORE anyway.
Admittedly stealing someone elses hard work isn't very nice, but you have been given all the precautions u need to counter it (Allthough I think you should be able to Attack them as well)
To be honest You need to be able to Attack the Theif. If you get your secure cans the in higher than 0.7 The theif has nowhere safeish to steal and that playstyle is eradictated from the game. What we need to be doing is encouraging different playstyles not restricting them. |
Tenaj
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Posted - 2005.08.10 12:23:00 -
[39]
(sigh)And I promised myself I wasn't going to get dragged into this one again....
As many, many people have already said, jet can mining was never an intended mechanic of the game. Miners talk about wanting balance by being able to fire on thieves. OK then, Apoc vs Bestower, sound like a balanced fight to you? You already HAVE balance. You have the choice whether to mine in lower sec, have a buddy haul for you, use secure cans or go mining solo in 1.0.
If you choose the latter, the BALANCING factor is that your ore is vulnerable to thieves, who may or may not find you. You have to make a decision based on what you think you can mine that way versus what you may lose if you come across a thief.
What you want is a completely UNBALANCED game, where you are free to use an unintended game mechanic with no recriminations whatsoever. That would be called an exploit. By all means give miners the right to fire on thieves, but if you do then you have to start banning players who jet mine. It's about having your cake and eating it folks.
One last thing, to all the players who like to draw analogies with the real world....Yes, in RL people who steal your TV are punishable under the law. However, If you leave your TV in the street overnight, watch it from the window of your house with a rifle in your hand and shoot the first person who tries to pick it up, you'll find yourself in a lot of trouble.
Once more, the absolute bottom line here is that jet can mining was NEVER intended to happen. Personally, I'd die laughing and happily change my profession to hear the screams from the Miners when CCP finally listens to them, gives them the right to fire on thieves and then makes jet can mining bannable or reduces their size by a factor of 10.
If i was a jet can miner, I'd keep very quiet, count my blessings and be glad that CCP have been happy to accept thieves as the balancing factor. You should be careful what you wish for.....
Tenaj xxx
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Dreamdancer
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Posted - 2005.08.10 13:38:00 -
[40]
Hey guys I think the point of the original post is being missed here. Maybe not clearly stated enough.
If I follow correctly what he is saying:
Ore thieving should be allowed, but make it somewhat risky for the thief.
Now my first though was allow the miner to defend his ore, buuuttt then I thought a bit. 90% of those that mine in empire don't have the skills to defend their ore in the first place. So allowing the miner to shoot back is like saying that that 1st grader is allowed to beat you up for taking his candy. Ain't gonna happen. So this isn't a solution. Least doesn't add any risk for the thief.
Now I was doing some hauling for a friend. His drones had popped some rats, this was in 0.1 space btw. I went and collected the loot from the rats and went to toss it in his drop can. The can was recognised as his and since my character was not in his corp and we hadn't thought to gang for a simple hauling I couldn't put the loot in his can. So what you say? This means the coding is already in the game identifying who's jet can is there. Soooo.... CCP must want ore thieves to have absolutely no risk. Because it would take them very little time to set taking items from a jet can that was not dropped by a gang/corp/alliance mate to a sec hit.
So those complaining about ore thieves are wasteing their time. CCP wants them there. And wants them to annoy those mining using jet cans with absolutely no risk. Why? Well I guess it's like so many have said, they want you to use secure cans and to not mine in 1.0 and 0.9 space. Moving out of 0.9 space to 0.8 or as far as 0.5 is not dangerous. So my only complaint and not a big one is that the biggest secure can is logistically too small to mine if you are making money by mining. Heck even if you are simply building ships to support the pirating side of the family.
Drathius I feel your pain, but complaining here is gonna just get flamed. I'd move one system over and mine into several secure cans or get a buddy to haul for you. Because ore thieves are here to stay and CCP has no intention of giving them any risk for thier choosen profession.
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Ekscalybur
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Posted - 2005.08.10 22:07:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Drathius
Right i'm in viziam. It's not like its common for people to have uncorp alts in eve To the people saying to move to 0.7 like i said if i want to mine with my corp it's not realy an option. Apart from that i'm not realy asking for secure cans in 0.9. I'd much rather they either take a security hit for stealing with concord sitting there watching them or that i just be allowed to shoot them. I think people should be able to steal your ore, but i also dont think they should be 100% immune to punishment. Anyway, it's obvious from the way half the people didnt read my posts, and the other half are repeating the exact same thing as each other and missing the point completely, that i might as well just give up.
This is the thing that gets to me. The person complaining about this was mining stuff, and then jettisoning it out of his hold. An act that means he no longer wants it. The miner most likely still wants that ore, but not enough to haul it to a station where it'll be kept securely.
When you click jettison, you are saying you no longer want whatever it is you are tossing out your cargo door. Saying otherwise is just as daft as saying you should be able to leave a box full of cash sitting out in the street and no one should be allowed to scoop it up.
Then again, I'm of the belief that there should be skills and modules that would allow someone to break into secure cans. Let's get some real theivery into Eve, lol.
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Bottled Brain
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Posted - 2005.08.11 00:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Drathius
Edited by: Drathius on 08/08/2005 13:21:58
There has been this dude in my system lately stealing people's ore cans and talking trash in local. It's a 0.9, so i cant use secure cans. Why is there a way in the game for people to steal millions of credits of property without the owner being able to defend it?
...
RTF
Mining Guide
Short abstract:
"At the Asteroid Belt
...
̣ When your cargo hold is full you should warp back to a station.
..."
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Silver Night
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Posted - 2005.08.11 15:40:00 -
[43]
First, I'm the victim in any thief-miner innteraction, so if I'm biased, it would be against the thieves. That being said, I think ore theft has become an important part of the game. If having your ore stolen is such a problem, thats what suicide kessies/caracals are for. Think a corp mate of mine once ran a guy back to a basic clone for stealing some scord.
Second, not sure how whining about PvP got into this thread, but CCP has provided myriad tools for never encountering PvP if you don't want to. As a hardcore carebear, fearful of even locking another player, I stay in empire for months at a time. I'm often never even targetted by another player. Even in low sec, fighting is generally easy to avoid. I travel through low sec all the time, and have only been killed once, at a massive 0.0 chokepoint gate camp. If I can do it, you can do it folks.
So, by all means, kill him. Get yourself and a number of corp mates in Kessies, and hunt him down like an animal. If some of your corp mates have money get them in Caracals even. Lure him into a .5 system to do it, i hear concord is slower there. Just spread out the agression, so you don't take too much of asec hit. You can even train up an alt for no other purpose than to suicide Kessie people if you are worried about sec status. Grief him onto the straight and narrow. Or at least make him create a new alt to thieve with.
------------------
Silver Night
Director - Production and Science
(\_/)This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature
(O.o)to help him on his way to World Domination.
(> <) |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.08.12 11:57:00 -
[44]
Ore thieves are a valid playstyle, and they balance out jet can mining in high space (though ccp didnt intend for jet can mining to occur, i think that they have accepted it now, if not they could of fixed it with ease in any of the patchs by simply reducing the can size to 500-600 m3)what i find annoying is the fact that most ore thieves revel in the fact that they can go arround stealing with concord to defend them in high space, i was in jita the other day where a ore thief had stolen of a noob player and was taunting him to shoot him (the thief that is) knowing full well that concord would kill the miner for him.
I truly hope that ccp will implement the flaging feature they are considering at least then there will be some consequence for the thief, and they will have to worry about something other that suicide alts (which they dont really have to worry about as much anymore due to the missile nerf meaning that people have to do a bit of training for a suicide kessie to have some affect).
anyhow in short though i rarley mine myself and when i do im not daft enough to use a jet can in over 0.5, with the attitude ive seen of some (not all, im basing my comments on the few incidents of taunitng i have seen) ore thieves i would love to see them having to take some risk for their proffesion as the rest of us do (though personaly i would love to find a way to stop people mining in anything larger than a cruiser in 0.7 and above..making this entire discussion moot)
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K3NDY
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Posted - 2005.08.12 12:53:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Drathius
Edited by: Drathius on 08/08/2005 13:21:58
There has been this dude in my system lately stealing people's
ore cans and talking trash in local. It's a 0.9, so i cant use secure cans. Why is there a way in the game for people to steal millions of credits of property without the owner being able to defend it? CCP should either let me use secure cans or let me blow that guys indy to kingdom come if he messes with my cans. I dont have a problem with pirates realy. If they can beat me they deserve my loot, but at least i can fight back. Anyone else think that CCP should make this an exploit or preferably make it so i can kill him for taking my stuff?
PS. How the heck do i get my picture to show up in my forum posts?
BOOHOO another whining miner, u are the one exploiting by using jet cans, in any case, jet can = space rubbish bin, ore relocation specialists are just clearing up the belts of ur unwanted trash STFU
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ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:31:00 -
[46]
K3NDY, before opening that mouth of yours please know what your talking about, Jet Can mining is not an exploit if it was people would be getting banned and warned like using drones on POS's but their not.
GM's have stated Jet can mining was never intended but i dont believe they ever said it was an exploit?
Plus a few months ago, you yourself was a carebear miner till some pirate wasted you.
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:07:00 -
[47]
Edited by: dantes inferno on 12/08/2005 17:12:26
see what i mean about the attitude of some ore thieves? People like that give decent ore theives a bad name (can you guess who one of the 2 incidents i was on about yet?)
and there are differences between expolits and innoventive (sp) ways of using the game mechanics. badger 2's wernt designed for combat...people still use them for combat, battle ships wernt designed with mining in mind yet they are used as such, a lot of things are used in ways not intended by the dev's this does not make it an exploit. if it was a true exploit which hurt the game the devs would stop it, and ban people for doing it. the 'xploit argument is used by the thieves to make them selves sound noble as they are doing the community a favour..this bs line is another annoying thing about ore thieves..ur stealing for your own gain, cause you cant be asked to mine(cant really blame you for that...mining is tedious)...dont try to sound like eves version of robin hood.
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ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:18:00 -
[48]
If you think about it, if jet can mining was an exploit then people who steal from the cans are exploiting an exploit?
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Bi5hop
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:43:00 -
[49]
There have been many valid points in here already that pretty much cover my view on this but there is one thing noone has really mentioned. There is no such thing in EvE as an ore thief, they are scavengers scooping up the ore other people have thrown out of their ships. You can even call them ore tramps or bums if you like but they don't steal from anyone. As people have said many times before a jet can is essentially a bin and personally I don't throw things that I want to keep in a bin so that some tramp can come along later and dive for it.
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:56:00 -
[50]
so that makes them tramps and not theives? as the only people i know who steals from bins are tramps. but the one problem with the logic of jetcans = bins are the fact that jet cans are actualy labled with your corp ticker..that could give the argument of ownership to your corp at least.
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Drathius
C: It makes no sense to the story to not be allowed to protect my ore and how am i supposed to believe concord wouldnt do anything to a blatant thief. Even if they dont let me shoot him he should take a drop in security so concord will eventualy deal with him.
According to "the story", you're not supposed to use Jettison Cans for mining either. Mining works alot different from how CCP expected it to. I don't know where you're from but Im pretty sure you're not allowed to shoot thieves where you live, unless to defend your own life.
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Bi5hop
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Posted - 2005.08.13 07:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: dantes inferno
so that makes them tramps and not theives? as the only people i know who steals from bins are tramps. but the one problem with the logic of jetcans = bins are the fact that jet cans are actualy labled with your corp ticker..that could give the argument of ownership to your corp at least.
The wheelie bin sat in my front garden has my house number on it, doesn't make it mine :)
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.08.13 16:49:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Avon
CCP should stop listening to the community, and just put the 23 in charge of the "think tank".
Hah, the game would never get anywhere! We disagree too much
Originally by: Tenaj
Miners talk about wanting balance by being able to fire on thieves. OK then, Apoc vs Bestower, sound like a balanced fight to you?
*snip*
...where you are free to use an unintended game mechanic with no recriminations whatsoever. That would be called an exploit.
Much as I respect you for being a reasonably mature and sensible ore thief Tenaj, balance in this game (IMO) is not achieved by being protected by Concord, when you're forcing your gameplay upon another player.
You're worried about the minerPoc killing your Bestower? Steal ore in a BS. Shouldn't have a lot of problems fitting an Apoc with a few WCS and expanders right?
Would certainly sort out the real ore thief mains from the alts with just enough training to fly a level 1 Indy
As for the whole rallying cry of ore thieves regarding jetcans not being intended to be used the way they are, its a moot point. CCP has chosen to allow them to be used that way, and have never classified it as an exploit (unless I'm missing something? Never heard of anyone being banned for it after all). Remeber, we don't get to decide what's an exploit and what isn't, just go check the whole drone versus POS debacle, so unless CCP state outright it's an exploit its entirely valid gameplay.
Since its valid gameplay, the argument of it not being a valid use of jetcans is null and void. Simple.
Also, since its valid gameplay the cries of "its a jetcan, its for disposing of stuff" is also moot. If its a valid way of mining, then theres nothing to support the argument that a miner has thrown out the ore and no longer lays claim to it.
Ore thieving is also a valid style of gameplay, but hiding behind Concord protection is what creates the unbalance. Pretty much every other form of "PVP" has possible player based repercussions, why not stealing someones ore?
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Cecil Montague
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Posted - 2005.08.13 23:43:00 -
[54]
Why is everyone getting so worked up? Rocket science is hard, full contact martial arts is hard (and i've done both but not at the same time).
Jet can mining is an easy way to make a bit of isk while chatting with my friends, drinking whiskey and listening to rock music.
"There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality." - Bruce Lee |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.08.14 07:41:00 -
[55]
Quote:
Now my first though was allow the miner to defend his ore, buuuttt then I thought a bit. 90% of those that mine in empire don't have the skills to defend their ore in the first place. So allowing the miner to shoot back is like saying that that 1st grader is allowed to beat you up for taking his candy. Ain't gonna happen. So this isn't a solution. Least doesn't add any risk for the thief.
i missed this earlier so ill reply now, in that case the empire miner will have to adapt and train combat skills, no one wants to give the high sec miner saftey on a plate.
all (speaking for myself) i want to see is the thief have to take some risk no hide in either a npc corp or a corp that no caerbear miner would stand a chance again, then rely on concord for protection tauniting and braging in local.
having an ore thief flaged for the owner of the can, will make both the thief and the miner adapt. no longer can the thief walse up in a expander fited indy, and the miner will now have to fit guns on to their ship. as ive said i would like changes implementd which would prevent anyone mine in 0.7+ in anything larger than a cruiser, cause all these caerbears who have no sp in defensive measures (gunnery, missiles, combat drones etc) and stay in systems where their are no rats..though have their uses (mine more trit,pyrite keep things slightly cheaper)...they basicaly deserve what they get for their greed and lack of risk taking.
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Astarte Nosferatu
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Posted - 2005.08.15 11:54:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Avon
CCP should stop listening to the community, and just put the 23 in charge of the "think tank".
I so agree with you. 
------------------------------------------
Member of the [23]
Follower of the Blood Revolution.
Sani Sabik.
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muriel
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:10:00 -
[57]
use secure cans is every 1 telling me but they are usless becuse of their smal size.
let us have a way to combine em so we gets a bigger can to mine into.
5 x 3900m3 combined is 19500m3 then it starts to help some.
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Seirkanis
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Posted - 2005.08.21 00:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: muriel
use secure cans is every 1 telling me but they are usless becuse of their smal size.
let us have a way to combine em so we gets a bigger can to mine into.
5 x 3900m3 combined is 19500m3 then it starts to help some.
Actually, I agree with this. Currently, the way secure cans work makes them largely useless. With a maximum volume of 3900m^3, I can fill one up pretty quickly. Then I have to run back to the station, load up a hauler, and come back. About half the time there are suddenly NPC ore rats there, so I have to fly back, switch back to the cruiser, come back out, and they're gone. Repeat ad nauseum.
Let me combine secure cans together, say a maximum of 5 at once, to get the volume up to 19500m^3, and they'll be useful. Ore thieves can still thieve. Miners can still mine. The only difference is that mining becomes a bit more efficient because I can't fill a can up in 15 minutes using a Scythe with two mining lasers (and two missiles and a gun to fight off the rats).
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Ra'virr
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Posted - 2005.08.21 15:31:00 -
[59]
Originally by: C0NC0RD C0MMANDER
Alas, CCP does try to tell me what to do in the game. Just today in the news its says we'll be punished if we use light drones in an attack on a POS, they say its an exploit. Why should they punish me for a problem they created and is available for anyone to do?
Actually, that¦s what your are NOT suppose to do. You still have plenty of choises of what to do...
Btw, how come there¦s is always 5 threads a day about Pirates and another 5 a about carebears whining about not being 100% super secure.
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Taraniis
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Posted - 2005.08.21 17:18:00 -
[60]
There is a simple solution Drathius.
1. Buy a barge
2. Buy a few secure cans
3. Buy some hammerheads
4. Go mine Kernite etc in a 0.6
Drones wtfpwn the rats, barge wtfpwns roids, no one gets your goods.
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maximyus
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Posted - 2005.08.22 11:52:00 -
[61]
you get the ore for nothing anyhow but i find it is mostly the miners that smack talk and i use smart bombs just dazy up beside them and boom pod and all then send in ur nice alt to pick up the all the t2 goodies :)
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Palx
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Posted - 2005.08.22 13:30:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Palx on 22/08/2005 13:32:32
Quote:
Drathius
Amarr
Doomheim
Cool
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.08.22 16:57:00 -
[63]
you get the ore for nothing anyhow but i find it is mostly the miners that smack talk
takes time to mine it, and this past week ive spet some tiem in jita for the first time since starting eve, and ive seen more ore theifes picking on noob chars, then tautning them in local than ive seen miners smak...hence my contempt for theives
_____
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.23 08:30:00 -
[64]
Originally by: dantes inferno
you get the ore for nothing anyhow but i find it is mostly the miners that smack talk
takes time to mine it, and this past week ive spet some tiem in jita for the first time since starting eve, and ive seen more ore theifes picking on noob chars, then tautning them in local than ive seen miners smak...hence my contempt for theives
There are no n00bs in Jita, only morons.
______________________________________________
Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2005.08.24 01:06:00 -
[65]
The reason why you cant blow up ore thieves is because its highsec space. Its security for you and them.
I think charging 115mil for a megathron is stealing because when i first flew them they were 85mil, but ccp doesnt let me go blow up miners like you who hike the price up all the time.
The difference is, I have no choice but to buy a megathron for 115mil, but you can mine in 0.7 and use jet cans. I dont understand why you mine in 0.9 and get thieved.
Wouldnt you say that if there was a megathron 2 jumps away for 30mil less, but i bought the one in system anyway that im a really retarded stupid ass mother ******* lazy *****. Well if you would, then you know what i more or less think of you
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Firstname Lastname
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Posted - 2005.08.24 03:46:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tenacha Khan
The reason why you cant blow up ore thieves is because its highsec space. Its security for you and them.
I think charging 115mil for a megathron is stealing because when i first flew them they were 85mil, but ccp doesnt let me go blow up miners like you who hike the price up all the time.
The difference is, I have no choice but to buy a megathron for 115mil, but you can mine in 0.7 and use jet cans. I dont understand why you mine in 0.9 and get thieved.
Wouldnt you say that if there was a megathron 2 jumps away for 30mil less, but i bought the one in system anyway that im a really retarded stupid ass mother ******* lazy *****. Well if you would, then you know what i more or less think of you
I'll buy your megathron for 85 mil :D
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