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Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
66
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Maybe this has come up before, maybe it hasn't.
I forget just where in the CSM notes it was but one of the CCP employees asked something along the lines of what the playerbase would think of adding "cockpit" view and or joystick support, eg, flight simulator style.
Not much really came up in that regard. Made me a little sad.
Personally I like those kinds of games, particularly Decent: Freespace 1&2 from back in the day.
How would this work with EvE? EvE plays very much differently from this. So it got me thinking about how flight sim style of play could work well with EvE.
I would limit it to a handful of ships that fit that kind of play. Frigates, Fighters, and Fighter Bombers.
Some sort of functionality would need to be added to switch modes from standard flight mode to cockpit view, or a Starfox style third person view. Your guns and missiles would get locked forward and only able to fire and target in that direction. Guns and unguided missiles would essentially be "dumb fire" or have limited tracking ability only in front of the ship. Guided missiles would be fire-and-forget much like they are now. Perhaps a small or modest boost to damage and range to turrets for fighting in this mode?
Overheating and all that would still be the same, module activation and cooldowns would still be the same, ammo counts as well. Other modules would simply work the same way as they do now, like Target Painters, Sensor Disruptors, Neuts, prop mods, etc. 360 degree of affect, range, falloff all that jazz.
Carriers could have some new play modes added to them, too. Pull up next to a carrier, "dock" with it in some manner and take over a fighter or fighter bomber and wreak havok. Player controlled individual fighters and fighter bombers would get a good boost to range and damage for being independantly controlled. If it gets blapped, launch another and get back into the fight!
This could even extend further to dreads where when you hit seige you go to a "turret" view and take direct control of your turrets and blap stuff a la B-52 belly-gunner style.
#popcorn |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
202
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
meh Not today spaghetti. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4083
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's pretty much impossible to implement this kind of thing in EVE currently. The server architecture for one runs on 1 Hz ticks and it can't go any faster, which kind of makes a lot of the split-second maneuvers and decision making you'd find in a dogfight impossible. There are other games significantly better suited to this sort of thing. Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
66
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It's pretty much impossible to implement this kind of thing in EVE currently. The server architecture for one runs on 1 Hz ticks and it can't go any faster, which kind of makes a lot of the split-second maneuvers and decision making you'd find in a dogfight impossible. There are other games significantly better suited to this sort of thing.
True there are certain current hardware limitations to fast and frenetic style of play that was in Decent.
But as far as I know there would be no real impact on current agility of ships, and all module activations would maintian thier current RoF, range, falloff, etc. Just locked to the fore.
edit: I've always wanted to do a power slide in a Rifter with auto-cannons blazing... |
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
455
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
No |
baltec1
Bat Country
5456
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:
True there are certain current hardware limitations to fast and frenetic style of play that was in Decent.
But as far as I know there would be no real impact on current agility of ships, and all module activations would maintian thier current RoF, range, falloff, etc. Just locked to the fore.
edit: I've always wanted to do a power slide in a Rifter with auto-cannons blazing...
The largest fights in EVE would melt any other MMO server currently. The technology simply does not exist to let this happen and the combat style in eve doesn't cross over very well either. |
Multimedia Carl
N3UR0TIC Vortek Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.02.28 19:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Simply put, this wont happen. This is not that kind of game. Trust me ive had the same thoughts.
First of all it would require a mass upgrade of the server. Secondly it would mean you would have to change the architecture of the game.
Making this would make every frigate able to utterly destroy any other ship as the user will have those split-second maneuvers. While people who are in the standard view are limited to the manual piloting we have today. Also the fact that no ship can actually turn upside down ingame.
Trust me let this go. It is a cool idea and all, but for another game. And that game is currently being made, with pretty much the aspects you want. It is called Star Citizen, id advise you to go look at it.
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Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2559
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
This thread again? So soon?
*knock knock knock* ISDs...you guys awake? Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13051
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:Not much really came up in that regard. Made me a little sad. You know what might have come up, a lot?
This thread, if you searched before you posted and/or if you looked in the right forum (viz. Features and Ideas). Hell, you could just have looked at the front page since we already have a thread on the topic.
The answer is the same as always: it can't be done and makes no sense anyway. Also, IBTL Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
Hra Neuvosto
Deadly Intent.
10
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/races/wetgrave/page_02a.asp?pp= |
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5490
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:Dog Fighting In Eve?
Really?
Who Let The Dogs Out?
DMC |
Angelique Duchemin
Divine Intentions
14
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
You can't even do dogfighting in vehicle FPS games if the server happens to be on the wrong side of the Atlantic. And then the bandwidth may only have to deal with 20 people in total. Of which a majority are not even in vehicles.
Never mind a game like Eve that struggles to let a hundred people fight at all in the current combat system.
That the fights work the way they do is by no means an accident. It's to give precious room to balanced battles on a server that handles players from the entire globe. |
Lashenadeeka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
No, how will I be able to dominate the game using alts if you make it all twitch-based?
****. |
Ovv Topik
Proposition Thirteen The Third Rail
311
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
What if it was only an option for Frigates?
What if it gave them an advantage in combat and bought them closer to Cruisers in capabilit (but not too much)y, therefore closing the gap between newer corp members and high sp vets. Innominate Nightmare, :"Your Mother is an exotic dancer, and your Sister works in a Quafe factory!GÇ¥ |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
912
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Meh. With the exceptinos of fighters, fighter-bombers, and drones, ships and other combatants don't get close enough for this to be even remotely necessary. Think about it - you set an obit of, say, 2500 meters. Two and a half kilometers. Almost 8000 feet. For most ships,all you're going to see is a distant glint, and maybe an engine flare at that range. Oh, you wanna see the weapons racing at you? Well, that's already do-able.
Sorry - EVE doesn't produce the kind of Star Wars 'air combat in space' action that would require or reward a joystick. Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Overseer Aliena
Lord of Wars
30
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you really want to gimp yourself in a fight that bad you can just not shoot. Only a fool would choose to drop their auto-targeting. |
Sir Substance
Quantum Triplines
587
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Posted - 2013.02.28 20:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote:Maybe this has come up before, maybe it hasn't.
I forget just where in the CSM notes it was but one of the CCP employees asked something along the lines of what the playerbase would think of adding "cockpit" view and or joystick support, eg, flight simulator style.
I think you should link that. It seems like an unusual thing for a CCP developer to ask, since it's common knowledge among not just the devs but the playerbase at large that the destiny engine updates only once a second, and changing this would be a fundamental rewrite.
I'm going to paint you a picture. You are playing freespace 2. But the game only updates once a second. Enemies jump, your guns energy drops or raises in increments of one second, and if you get hit by a capital beam you wont know till you're already dead.
Now, on top of this, add a three second delay to every action you take. this simulates the total server turnaround time to my home city, Adelaide.
Once a second game updates, three seconds behind the action. This is why we don't have cockpit view in eve. Frankly I don't think this is such a killer feature that I'd choose to rewrite the physics engine to get it.
By the way, frigates in eve are the same size as the GTC Orff, the cruiser you defend in the first mission of Freespace 1. They're a bit big to dogfight. Ishtar Starfire: As a pure caldari pilot i feel that with the deployment of the new tier 3 battlecruisers you have given an unfair advantage to everyone except caldari pilots. an example would be like giving a fat kid a whole cake while the skinny kid has to watch and get nothing.
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Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2813
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Leave those poor animals alone !! |
Aren Madigan
EVE University Ivy League
144
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
If the server side issues were solved, I wouldn't see any reason against it as an OPTION if people wanted to use it. Although learning how much to slow down by to maximize turning ability for the amount of turning you want to do would be difficult I imagine, giving some advantage to clicking. Either way, I'd like the idea, just don't lag the server over it. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4085
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
silens vesica wrote:Meh. With the exceptions of fighters, fighter-bombers, and drones, ships and other combatants don't get close enough for this to be even remotely necessary. Think about it - you set an orbit of, say, 2500 meters. Two and a half kilometers. Almost 8000 feet. For most ships, all you're going to see is a distant glint, and maybe an engine flare at that range. Oh, you wanna see the weapons racing at you? Well, that's already do-able.
Set an orbit of 5000 meters, and you're not even going to see the engine flares.
Sorry - EVE doesn't produce the kind of Star Wars 'air combat in space' action that would require or reward a joystick. So you're telling me that you won't be able, at 2.5 km distance, to see a ship that's over half the length of an American football field?
Keep in mind this figure is for the smallest of frigates. Then we come up to cruisers which are the size of the Hindenburg at least, battlecruisers are even bigger, battleships even bigger, etc.
Let's take the Executioner for example, one of the smallest frigates there is. 54 m long axis. At 2.5 km range that amounts to an apparent size of about 1.2 degrees, which is about two and a half times the maximum apparent size of the moon or the sun.
An Abaddon, 1.25 km long, would have that same apparent size at about 58 km distance.
So yeah, math, it's good for you.
In other words, visibility would have nothing to do with size, but merely having to do with space being all dark and stuff. Depending on the angle, engagement distance from the star, luminosity of the star, and the materials on the surface of the ship, it would either stand out like a sore thumb or be really hard to see, regardless of how big it is. Amarr ships (except for Khanid ships would have a pretty big disadvantage here). Malcanis for CSM 8 Phrases like "you can't nerf / buff X EVE is a Sandbox" have the same amount of meaning as "If this is a sack of potatoes then you can not carrot." - Alara IonStorm |
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Prekaz
The Gentlemen's Corporation
24
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't understand how anyone who has ever played this game could possibly think that this would be viable. |
Skorpynekomimi
461
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
No. That is not what EVE is about. EVE is about COMMANDING the ship, not flying it. If you want dogfights, go play a flight sim. |
Makavelia
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
I'd be happy with the option to at-least manualy piolit the likes of frigates, even if the firing remains auto.
In-fact i'd like the ability to manualy turn and manauver any vessel. A lot of the formations and so so in eve are a damn joke to navigate through with the ''click to move'' or ''aproach''.
This game could easily handel manual control over a ship.. and it would be a real boost in tranversel efforts yada yada. |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
916
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:silens vesica wrote:Meh. With the exceptions of fighters, fighter-bombers, and drones, ships and other combatants don't get close enough for this to be even remotely necessary. Think about it - you set an orbit of, say, 2500 meters. Two and a half kilometers. Almost 8000 feet. For most ships, all you're going to see is a distant glint, and maybe an engine flare at that range. Oh, you wanna see the weapons racing at you? Well, that's already do-able.
Set an orbit of 5000 meters, and you're not even going to see the engine flares.
Sorry - EVE doesn't produce the kind of Star Wars 'air combat in space' action that would require or reward a joystick. So you're telling me that you won't be able, at 2.5 km distance, to see a ship that's over half the length of an American football field? Do recall that you're in space. Not a particularly good environment for retro-reflection - Espcially noting that very few of the ships in EVE have particularly high albedo. Expecially not at the speeds that EVE ships move.
Watch Space shuttle maneuvers some time - It'll be good for your understanding.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
313
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Remove insurance. |
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1127
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Posted - 2013.02.28 21:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Here you go, wish granted. Although honestly cockpit view would involve green goo and wall of your pod. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1880
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 00:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
I wouldn't mind if this was done for a new class of ship that is more like a drone or fighter.
Would be interesting if things like carriers had fighters aboard that were other players.
Not really sure why, as a pod pilot, I would want to fly a ship that can only shoot at what's in front of me. I suppose it would be like the an extreme sport for capsuleers.
None of the current ships function anything like an aircraft, they're boats in space; it wouldn't make sense to dog fight in them. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
2915
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Posted - 2013.03.01 00:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
"Can we please have more lag?" Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
70
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Posted - 2013.03.01 00:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
Oh god yes, "dog fighting" Titans Hold joystick full right for 8 minutes to turn 40 degree |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
2916
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Posted - 2013.03.01 00:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zeko Rena wrote:Oh god yes, "dog fighting" Titans Hold joystick full right for 8 minutes to turn 40 degree Then TiDi kicks in and you do that just turn your interceptor around. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. |
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