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oiusodoff
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Posted - 2003.07.21 17:55:00 -
[1]
Sorry people but I must have a flame here.
I am sick to death of 'Ore Theives'. This 'practice' carries on in high-security space with no chance of defending what is rightfully yours.
While mining in a 1.0 sector happyly pile-mining away humming to myself, some sneaky little <bleep> sneaks up behind me and steals my hard earned stash of minerals!!
'Fair enough' you might say. 'Shouldn't leave it in space' I hear you say. 'It's your own fault for leaving it there' you may cry.
No problemo, BUT I should at least have the chance to defend what is rightfully mine?!?
If I try and defend my what it rightfully mine then I am branded a criminal and punished by the cops. I understand this line of thinking and agree if some-one steals your car you are not allowed to shoot them (unless your in Texas :> )
What is the solution?? Well I have a few suggestions:
a) Only yourself or a fellow member of your gang is allowed to remove items from your canister.
b) Password protect the cannisters with the same capacity as current.(I know you are going to say this is coming, but they are not large enough to pile mile with as they have restricted capacity)
c) The cops swoop down on the infidel and blast him/her into smitherines.
d) Let me shoot the <bleep> for stealing without reprisals from the cops against me.
Any devs out there please take note :)
Flame away peeps, flame away :)
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.07.21 17:58:00 -
[2]
I take offense to this entire post.
You are also allowed to return fire if in California, or Philly.*
so there.
*in NYC, you are only allowed to run them over, with an additional backing-over for every year you've owned the car.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Ubiq
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:02:00 -
[3]
Sorry for being naive. Declare war on there corp?
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Lao Tzu
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:03:00 -
[4]
"No problemo, BUT I should at least have the chance to defend what is rightfully mine?!? "
Yes, but the ore in that can is not yours to defend. If you have the ore in your cargo bay, then you can defend it.
Or as above, go to war, in fact go to war on someone anyway, it's more fun than mining in 1.0 systems :D
Edited by: Lao Tzu on 21/07/2003 18:04:02
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oiusodoff
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:03:00 -
[5]
They have thought of this one too: They join a n00b starting corp and so no chance of talking to a CEO or declaring war on them.
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Maarek Steele
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:06:00 -
[6]
If you want the chance to 'defend your hard earned ore' don't mine in a 1.0 sector, or use a secure cargo container.
-=Maarek Steele=-
Have gun, will travel. |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:08:00 -
[7]
I don't mind they steeling your Ore since you insist on killing the market with your prices. It is way to easy for a newbie to get a crusier or any ship for that matter. If it were me out there I would care about your Ore I would just kill your cans to slow production.
Its Sabatoge. Pirates are part of the game it is something you can do if you want to just like mining, so is stealing. You don't have to just sit there and take it.
You can do something besides whining about it on this forumn. no-body really cares. CCP isn't going to stop it cause it is allowed.
Edited by: Kalhan on 21/07/2003 18:09:08
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oiusodoff
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:09:00 -
[8]
This is happening in n00b space. So perhaps n00bs should mine in 0.0 sectors and make friends with the Depreditors instead?? Sure they will be afraid of a Civilian Rail gun mounted on my Ibis :P
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:12:00 -
[9]
1) Buy 10 secure containers (that's how many I can fit in my industrial)
2) Load industrial with containers
3) Go to location where you intend to solo mine in industrial.
4) Jettison Containers in the same place near the within 5km of the roids you intend to mine
5) Dock and switch into mining ship
6) Return to secure containers.
7) Mine.
8) Transfer ore into secure containers until each is filled
9) Return to station and switch into industrial
10) Return to roid belt and scoop secure containers.
A lot more steps involved than before and it requires an initial cash outlay of 310k. But you secure your work and the 310k investment is resuable.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Khar'du
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:12:00 -
[10]
I totally agree with above.
Ore is NOT yours until in your hold !
Anyway, wwhat are you doing mining in 1.0 anyway ? You should only be allowed to mine there as a newbie since (strip)mining 1.0 space when not new to the game should be considered griefing.
Dont be a wuss, go to .5 space and mine away, no-one will bother you as all thieves look for easy prey in higher sec space.
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Zorael
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:13:00 -
[11]
Can *****s are the price to pay if you want to mine semi-afk in high sec systems.
Your alternative is to mine in a 0.4 system or below (so you can fire at your thieve without immediate action from concord). You will have to deal with NPC pirats though, but they aren't quite a challenge nowadays...
-Z
- - -
Lack of planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:14:00 -
[12]
If it weren't for Carebear Space and Newb Corps this market wouldn't be dead. I say now Thief Corps should be formed to slow down these newb corps with no Idea what there products our worth.
They should make a weapon like a mining laser that could just transport the cargo right out of an Indy. So Pirates and Thief Corps could just swoop in and steal it from there convies on the way to base.
Secure containers wouldn't work I would just kill the can if I couldn't get in.
Edited by: Kalhan on 21/07/2003 18:16:54
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:19:00 -
[13]
<< Your alternative is to mine in a 0.4 system or below (so you can fire at your thieve without immediate action from concord). You will have to deal with NPC pirats though, but they aren't quite a challenge nowadays... >>
A Rupture with 4 mining lasers and 3 Infiltrator drones can easily mine in .2 space with a Medium Shield Booster. I did it as an experiment. Despite constantly spawning Ruffians, Nomads and the occasional missile frigate pirate (can't remember which one it was) the drones easily took care of 4-5 pirates at a time before they could reduce my rupture's shields past 1/4th remaining.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Gravedancer
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:30:00 -
[14]
Ok im usually the first one to bash any exploit, but this is NOT an exploit. If you jettison ore in a container, it is no longer technically yours, its floating space debris. If you are so unobservant as to allow someone to "sneak" in, then you probably should try paying more attention to the game while playing instead of surfing the forums, or **** sites, or whatever. I think the suggestion to fill up an indy with secure containers is a great workaround and an option you probably should consider since you seem intent on being able to AFK mine without fear. Whining for the DEVs to do something about the issue though is pointless. The DEVs already HAVE done something about this.. thats what secure containers are for. You may whine and say "bbbbbuuut the secure containers dont have the same capacity (insert sound of sniffles here)". True. You may say they cost too much for you to afford to fill up an indy with them. Also possibly true. Thats the price you pay though for the security. Please dont whine to the devs to "fix" something else. IF they did take more drastic steps it would only result in a 3 day wave of forum rants from all the container thieves out there, and I for one dont want to see that.
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Chagidiel
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:32:00 -
[15]
1. Dont mine alone. Its stupid
2. Use secure containers
3. Mine in low secure systems, where you can defend the stones you dump into the vast space, right beside a huge field of stones, I might ad, and you after that, still consider yours.
4. Return after filling your cargo
5. Dont mine alone. Its s.t.u.p.i.d
Use other corpoation members to help you, and if youre a lonely fellow, then pay someone to work together with you.
I and my corp never have had this problem, nor will we, since we have taken precausion to avoid it, hence, I really dont think this should be a problem to anyone.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:33:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kalhan on 21/07/2003 18:33:17
Well put.... GraveDancer
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:42:00 -
[17]
"f you are so unobservant as to allow someone to "sneak" in, then you probably should try paying more attention to the game while playing instead of surfing the forums, or **** sites, or whatever."
Okay... So I sit mining, always watching it (which I actually do, with a browser only covering a bit of the game client), I see someone sneaking in on my ore, what should I do then? Please inform me, as there is nothing I can do at the moment, without
a) losing secrating (ugh)
b) getting CONCORD after me (ugh)
c) starting a convo and tell him to f*ck off (probably won't help, he'll just get back to you to make you even more angry)
Well? :) |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:44:00 -
[18]
<<Okay... So I sit mining, always watching it (which I actually do, with a browser only covering a bit of the game client), I see someone sneaking in on my ore, what should I do then? Please inform me, as there is nothing I can do at the moment, without
a) losing secrating (ugh)
b) getting CONCORD after me (ugh)
c) starting a convo and tell him to f*ck off (probably won't help, he'll just get back to you to make you even more angry)
Well? :) >>
Buy enough secure containers to fill an industrial and follow the steps posted above
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.07.21 18:52:00 -
[19]
Mine in 0.0 space then shoot him. Or "breath in" "breath out" Suck it up and move on.
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yarr
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Posted - 2003.07.21 19:28:00 -
[20]
Edited by: yarr on 21/07/2003 19:28:02
I would be totally comfortable stealing ore from people strip mining the school systems. In fact I'll take from anyone whose eyes are clearly bigger than their belly.
Mining in 0.0 is an way around it. you'll get better ore too. And when someone does come to steal a bit, just hope you're not reading a book, and blow the everloving crap out of them.
but inside empire space, it is one of very, very few risks. And, like most risks, avoidable, but if the risk pays off, you get a reward.
I don't mind you shooting me when I hack the code on your secure containers* 
* when/if implemeted
_____
sig |
Graah
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Posted - 2003.07.21 20:12:00 -
[21]
Those of you stating that when you put ore into a jettisoned container next to you, that you are actively using, that you give up right to said property really need to rethink your logic.
And before you start ranting about how you are right let me give you a nice tidy little example: If someone drives to a gas station to fill up a gas can to bring home (for their lawnmower or whatever else) it is, as far as I know, required that you remove the container from your vehicle and fill it on the ground. Now that requirement is moot, but the scenario is not. If you put that container on the ground, and you start filling it up and someone comes along and takes it then guess what, that's theft ladies and gentlemen. Now, the scenario can be taken further. If you pull out a gun and shoot someone taking your gas can then we all should know that the proper authorities will consider YOU the bad guy when they show up. So far Eve is in line with reality. Where it ISN'T in line, is that there is no way to report a theft to the proper authorities. Guess what, if that were the case in real life you would have a great many people upset, and in EVE that is exactly the situation that you have.
That being said, if someone is mining and putting the ore into an external container then we can only assume they plan on mining more than their ship can carry, meaning they probably plan on bringing out an Indy later to transport it. For the brilliance of this we need only go to the above scenario and change it so that you bring your nice shiny sports car to get the gas, realize you don't want to taint your car by carrying it home and decide to nip back and get your SUV and come back and pick up the can. Well, in reality (depending on locale) logic would tell you that, illegal or not, there's a good chance that can won't be there when you get back unless you have some other person assume the responsibility of watching it.
So, while it tends to be two different issues they all come back to the same resolution. You either mine in an Indy, with less power but more security, or you take a gamble by mining faster and risking loosing it before you can transport it.
The only valid scenario I can think of is group mining, where it is perfectly understandable that you would have a mining group jettisoning for their transport, under those situations the rumored and 'as of yet' uber-large secure containers would be a great solution. As far as those would-be griefers who would blow up the cans, then make them the property of the owner much like a drone. You attack it and Concord gets vindictive.
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Viceroy
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Posted - 2003.07.21 20:48:00 -
[22]
Dear mr. whiner/carebear
this topic has been discussed a LOT of times, and the conclusion is that in the upcoming patch secure containers will be introduced, thus ending ore theft. Please stop WHINING about it as it has been CLEARLY adressed by the DEVELOPMENT TEAM in the dev-blog and in interviews. there is no point in these stupid threads anymore.
and btw MINING IS NOT HARD WORK DAMNIT! Just cause it takes time doesnt mean its harder. Its not like you analyze the asteroids structure and aim your mining lasers at the good points. you just sit there and activate your lasers and go feed the hamster of browse pron or something. you just loose time when you get stolen from.
www.wishbear.net for further instructions on secure cans.
-
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Private Idaho
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Posted - 2003.07.21 20:57:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Private Idaho on 21/07/2003 20:58:16
Ok have found out from others on the Chaos server that the secure canisters are basically non-destructable.
And I have personally found out that you set the password the Large Secure Canisters can not be opened, scooped into your cargo hold and now, if shot at, can not be destroyed. I have found out also that they last over 3 hours without blowing up.
So as one of the other posters has already mentioned, get as many secure containers in your indy, drop them at a site, come back with your miner and mine. After filling them, bring your indy back to pick them up.
Case closed.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.21 22:17:00 -
[24]
ehehehe!
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V'cassLord Daeth
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Posted - 2003.07.21 22:34:00 -
[25]
LOL, yet another one. See the old topic in eve-i.com concerning whiners of eve....it may help shed light on this topic!
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.21 22:43:00 -
[26]
- I wanted to use a 'rolls eyes' smiley but there isn't one. oh well
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.21 22:51:00 -
[27]
Lola wake up?   |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.21 22:53:00 -
[28]
You named your character Jar Jar?
That's just.. wrong.
Scrapyard Jack needs to take a shower now. 
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.07.22 06:57:00 -
[29]
OMG.... *bonks head* he wasn't rolling his eyes before . The only animated one was this little dude. 
-----------------------------------------
Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Agent Shield
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Posted - 2003.07.22 08:11:00 -
[30]
Jash,
I saw your post to another for using the secure cargo containers, but I think I noticed them in the market and they only held 490 and from your post, you can hold 10 of them in the Indy. Well, 10x490 of course is 4,900; but my Indy holds 5,000.
Is the only benefit to this 'maneuver' is so that someone who is concerned about the ore they leave in the fields, have a way to be the only one to retreive it?
Seems like a waste of time to me, but I have yet to have a can problem; so maybe that is why I don't think about it.
Your post just caught my eye because of the 10x490 and the time wasted just seems too much. However, I did read the other day that someone had put 70k Scordite into their jettisoned cargo and thought that was chancy. :-)
Agent Shield |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.22 08:18:00 -
[31]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 22/07/2003 08:18:29
Jash's idea was perfectly acceptable, shame it wasn't an ore-whiner that took the time to think it up...
oh, and isn't animated on the posting page.
While I'm here, I'll check the quote system..
 Quote:
Jash's idea was perfectly acceptable, shame it wasn't an ore-whiner that took the time to think it up...
Did that work?
edit: yes! sweet.
.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.22 08:30:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Jash,
I saw your post to another for using the secure cargo containers, but I think I noticed them in the market and they only held 490 and from your post, you can hold 10 of them in the Indy. Well, 10x490 of course is 4,900; but my Indy holds 5,000.
Is the only benefit to this 'maneuver' is so that someone who is concerned about the ore they leave in the fields, have a way to be the only one to retreive it?
Seems like a waste of time to me, but I have yet to have a can problem; so maybe that is why I don't think about it.
Your post just caught my eye because of the 10x490 and the time wasted just seems too much. However, I did read the other day that someone had put 70k Scordite into their jettisoned cargo and thought that was chancy. :-)
The downside of the secure containers is they hold 490m3 apiece (though allegedly in the patch notes they gain a whole 20%).
The upsides are:
- They require a password to open
- They require a password to scoop to cargo
- They are apparently indestructible
Anyone with the password can open or scoop the container. The last one is a biggie for anyone that has had a lucky missile from a npc pirate pop a night's work.
So the benefit to the solo miner is they now have a way to secure their cargo and mine faster using multiple mining lasers. And mine solo in less secure areas. While testing these out for possible corp use, I went to a .3 system with my Rupture armed with 4 mining lasers, 2 launchers with rockets and 3 infiltrator drones. The infiltrator drones easily handled the pirates that spawned while I mined uninterrupted.
Corp benefit is a container that is apparently much more hardy than the standard container. A standard container can only handle around 80hp damage before it'll pop. A heavy missile from a depredator+ will kill a container in 1 shot.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
CT BadIronTree
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Posted - 2003.07.22 08:56:00 -
[33]
I hate people when they say "you leave it fling next to you so is not yours" WTF? men
(btw: im not a noob... i play this game since beta 5... stop flaming me :P)
i dont have to use secure conteines only for traveling with something like BP or move good stuff. i use them also like folders in hangar so i dont mix up stuff... :) if someone steal from me he is dead in 1-2sec with my thorax... and i run like crazy to get away from police...
the thing is that if you park your car next to you house and leave your stuff-box-shoping out to the car next to it to do something and someone steal it from you... THE STUFF ARE YOURS they did not find them buy actident in the street.. and pick it up... If you find a wallet full of money you give it to police you dont trow the wallet and keep the money....
your way that peoples mind think scare me...
i went on holiday on a vilage in greece and they never lock the car... they left the key of the car on it... they did not have lock on the doors... and the strangers they give them something to drink freely and they invite me to come and eat with them and if i wanted to sleep on the sofa....
this sound like a dream but is not... if you dont have thiefs is beatifull...
THINK right stealing is wrone... (you will go to hell :PPP )
ask before you pick up stuff from a conteinar... what happend to the good all times that 2 people with noob ship get 50/50 the stuff. one was mining and the other was hauling....
no indastrial ships then and one cruiser...
if you mine alone you have to go back and forword 100 times
if you leave the cargo and go to station to pick the indy. i will propably pick it up my self if i dont know that you where mining there
so leave a bookmark in it saying that this is yours...
============================================
Colossus Technologies
The first and oldest corp in eve!
BadIronTree Head of Production
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic mode.
---------------------------------------
playing (or beta testing)since Sat, 2 Nov 2002 16:06 (beta 5)
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.22 09:05:00 -
[34]
Quote:
the thing is that if you park your car next to you house and leave your stuff-box-shoping out to the car next to it to do something and someone steal it from you... THE STUFF ARE YOURS they did not find them buy actident in the street.. and pick it up... If you find a wallet full of money you give it to police you dont trow the wallet and keep the money....
Of course it's your stuff. Ask the thief that steals it out of your car if he cares. And yes I do keep wallets I find full of money (bad experience after not even being told "thank you" after returning the first one I ever found as a wee lad).
I'm no can thief as I find it to be rather dull. But if I were a can thief in this game my response to you would be:
If you refuse to take the basic precautions provided by CCP and described in detail many many times by others, I'm the slap to the forehead for being so silly.
The game allows theft. Moral outrage isn't worth the dust they'll leave in your empty cans. And it's not CCP's responsibility to create solutions for a person's greed. Mine securely or take the risk.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Arlana
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Posted - 2003.07.22 09:48:00 -
[35]
Some occurances make you wonder how dumb people are:
I was mining away Kernite the other day and stumbled upon a container with 2k Kernite and 20k Omber. It was unguarded and I kept an eye on it while mining. No one came to fetch the contents and as it would have been a terrible waste to let the container just disappear I put the contents into a new container after 40 minutes. Half an hour later I started to empty it but stopped after about 2k Omber and 1k Kernite as I was feeling bad about it :/
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yarr
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Posted - 2003.07.22 10:39:00 -
[36]
what's there to feel bad about, Arlana?
A small measure af guilt is understandable if you steal their ore from right in front of them, but if they have left the system, then *nobody* can argue that is isn't fair game.
Like drones. You leave them in the field, and someone else is free to take them.
I would have cleaned that can out.
_____
sig |
M4ya
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Posted - 2003.12.23 03:39:00 -
[37]
f
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Hodokie Seek
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Posted - 2003.12.23 03:53:00 -
[38]
Quote:
A Rupture with 4 mining lasers and 3 Infiltrator drones can easily mine in .2 space with a Medium Shield Booster. I did it as an experiment. Despite constantly spawning Ruffians, Nomads and the occasional missile frigate pirate (can't remember which one it was) the drones easily took care of 4-5 pirates at a time before they could reduce my rupture's shields past 1/4th remaining.
I am in a Vexor with a Miner II, Guns, and Drones and do ok in .2 space but will loose drones more often now since the new patch has come out. Pirates do pack a bigger punch.
Ore theifs are low life scum buckets that unfortunately have a right to exist in Eve so yes, use secure cans. It is nice though when you pull up next to one with nothing but smartbombs and blow up his ship and pod him though. The securty hit you take bites.
__________________________________________
Quote:
[07:11:41] Hodokie Seek > k, will probably go in my Tristan.
[07:12:18] xxxx > tristan? is it a hazardous area?
[07:12:27] Hodokie Seek > Yep
[07:12:34] xxxx > nuts
[07:12:37] Hodokie Seek > Yep
[07:12:52] xxxx > wouldn't be so bad, but i'd hate to lose my implants
[07:13:06] xxxx > i'll go in my omen
/emote Hodokie Seek <---- No implants and no brains.
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