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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
821
   |
Posted - 2013.03.02 22:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:A capacitor use bonus should not count as a "bonus" when minmatar ships get that for free. I am not sure why CCP has to make it so that a ship can only have two bonuses, it seems rather silly. Maybe something simple like a tracking bonus?
The drake gets a bonus to resistances and a dps bonus, but do its guns use less cap than a harbinger? Yea, good bonus. It's not like lasers give a really big advantage to counter using all that cap.
Where's that 3rd cap bonus for blasterboats?
No. You get another bonus when you lose the cap bonus. That makes 2. You don't get 3rd when blasterboats get 2.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
821
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 22:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:sabre906 wrote:
Where's that 3rd cap bonus for blasterboats?
No. You get another bonus when you lose the cap bonus. That makes 2. You don't get 3rd when blasterboats get 2.
Blaster boats still use less cap than a harbinger per gun. So a Brutix gets a bonus to dps and tank while still using less cap, and a thorax gets a bonus to dps and tracking while still using less cap.
By your logic, your laserboat gets a bonus to range. Remove scorch and we'll talk.
Or maybe boats are different. Winmatar may need a nerf, but that doesn't mean laserboats get a 3rd bonus so that it can pwn hybrids worse than they do now.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
821
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 23:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I agree with the OP, having a bonus to cap on amarr ships sucks when all that bonus does is to allow those weapons to function normally, thus it is not a bonus.
How about reducing cap requirements on all lasers, I've never understood how beam lasers should even require cap in the first place as (if I remember my optical physics correctly) all a beam laser needs is a continuous source of power (this is represented in the PG requirements as posted in the weapon description). Pulse lasers are a little different in that they rapidly fire multiple times per shot and as such need short bursts of power which is where a capacitor is needed.
So I would say, no cap on all beam lasers at the very least and reduced cap requirements for the more damaging, but shorter range pulse lasers. Thats more homogenizing the weapons which I think is bad, they should all have a glaring disadvantage but have a massive advantage. Blasters do lolwtf dps with awesome tracking but **** range, projectiles can select damage types, fit easy, and use 0 cap with slightly better dps than missiles, lasers eat cap and have better damage projection. Yet on the harbinger it is not really good enough to snipe and it doesnt have any advantages in a brawl.
Glad your alt agrees with your main. Why don't we just give you hybrids instead of lasers? Problems solved? After all, blasters get "awsome tracking" and rails get... what do they get again? All for less cap. Sounds like the perfect weapons to use.
Yeah, laserboats clearly deserves a special 3rd bonus, and hybrid boats don't.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
822
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 23:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:sabre906 wrote:Glad your alt agrees with your main. Why don't we just give you hybrids instead of lasers? Problems solved? After all, blasters get "awsome tracking" and rails get... what do they get again? All for less cap. Sounds like the perfect weapons for you. Yeah, laserboats clearly deserves a special 3rd bonus, and hybrid boats don't. Thats rather paranoid assuming that is my alt. Please stop saying stupid ****. Rails have omgwtfbbq range which used to be much more useful before CCP nerfed lock range. Rails suck different thread. Hybrids don't need a 3rd bonus, and neither do most laser boats like the maller which is pretty good. As a brawler the harb can't eat capacitor like Rosie O'Donell drinks mayonaise while still staying viable and doesn't have an advantage sniping. Blasters also use less cap and do more dps, lots more.
"omgwtfbbq range"
Lol, really? What do you call Scorch?
How about we compare cap usage. Harbinger with heavy pulse IIs consumes 9.6 cap/sec on guns, Brutix with 250mm rail IIs (lol rails) consumes 9.0 cap/sec on guns. Former is 0.6 cap/sec higher, but gets Scorch. I'll give you rail performance for that 0.6 cap/sec, deal? Oh wait, but that's not enough, you want a 3rd bonus. What are you smoking and can i haz?
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
822
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 23:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:sabre906 wrote:[quote=Commander Ted]
"omgwtfbbq range"
Lol, really? What do you call Scorch? Yea your right 115km range with medium guns loaded with t2 ammo and 0 modules is utter ****. I guess large rails having range longer than grid size is nothing special either right?
Damn those rails. Now those are clearly OP, aren't they? Why don't you use them?
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
822
|
Posted - 2013.03.02 23:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:sabre906 wrote:How about we compare cap usage. Harbinger with heavy pulse IIs consumes 9.6 cap/sec on guns, Brutix with 250mm rail IIs (lol rails) consumes 9.0 cap/sec on guns. Former is 0.6 cap/sec higher, but gets Scorch. I'll give you rail performance for that 0.6 cap/sec, deal? Oh wait, but that's not enough, you want a 3rd bonus. What are you smoking and can i haz? Comparing long range guns to short range guns in cap use. The Turret you are looking for is Heavy Beam Laser.
Blasters then, 8.4, huge difference. But I suppose these guns will be off while you get into range to tickle that scorchboat.
And who fit beams on their Harby instead of scorch?
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
827
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 02:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Drake Doe wrote:Commander Ted wrote:Drake Doe wrote:If it's bonuses are working that means it doesn't need a new one They aren't working. They suck. The cap bonus is not good enough to make the ship viable and without the bonus the ship would be unusable. If you say that is contradictory you are a tool and I mean that. Well **** you too, that just shows that the bonus is lower than where it should be since you just stated it's too small tp make a difference. WHAT? How on earth would that fix anything? Even if the guns used 0 cap the harbinger would still suck.
Scorch suck? Why don't you crosstrain to hybrids?
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
831
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 19:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys, just want to pop into this discussion with my perspective.
Expect more tweaks to many weapon systems, including lasers, as we go forward.
That being said I do not think the solution to the problem is to build the cap use bonus back into the guns. The high cap use is a defining feature of lasers, helps create interesting player decisions on Amarr ships, and I believe it provides us more balance tools than it removes. There's a lot we need to fix with many Amarr ships, but I do not currently expect that the solution is going to be removing the cap use bonuses across the board.
That statement has not fundamentally changed. The solution to problems with certain Amarr ships isn't to remove the cap bonus across the board, or add a third bonus. It's to ensure that the strengths of each weapon system counterbalance the drawbacks.
This is an ongoing iterative project and we're not going to get there for all weapon systems overnight, but I can fairly firmly state that we're not going to remove the laser cap use bonus from the Amarr flavor and we're not going to start giving them 3rd bonuses across the board. The problems aren't new. The solutions aren't forthcoming. My understanding from your statements is "Yeah, it's broken, and we're maybe going to fix it sometime in the nebulous future, perhaps even the distant future, but none of your ideas are what we're going to do, and no I can't tell you what we're going to do about it. You'll just have to put up with the brokenness until we do something about it" Do you really expect us to be happy with that position?  MDD You can be as happy or unhappy with me as you want, that's your prerogative. What I'm saying is that we're not going to remove the uniqueness of different turret types without good cause. The balance between weapon types is better now that it has ever been in EVE, and after each expansion in the future it will keep getting incrementally better.
Lasers are good. But medium rails still need help.
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
832
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:You can be as happy or unhappy with me as you want, that's your prerogative. What I'm saying is that we're not going to remove the uniqueness of different turret types without good cause.
The balance between weapon types is better now that it has ever been in EVE, and after each expansion in the future it will keep getting incrementally better. Fozzie, if I came across as attacking you personally, then I apologize. That wasn't my intention (I blame low blood sugar grumpiness). It merely seems like for all the attempts at balancing the weapon systems we never get there. Projectiles have been the go-to turret system for years. It would be interesting to see weapon type use versus time over the last several years. MDD
Pulse with Scorch has always been the one gun competitive with ACs. Rails and Blasters are jokes. It's just speed and armor tanking holding Amar back.
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