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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.08.12 12:36:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: lythos miralbar
Im my personal experience, a BC can deffinately be equaly or better than a hac.
Ive fought about 7 hacs in a BC and every time its only thier wcs that have saved them.
BC have about twice the armor and shield hp of a hac, plus if you dont fit wcs (and i dont know many that would on a bc) you can at least match them in dammage output and normally do more than them. Plus as already mentioned you have your drone bay.
If you can get the ballance right you can do at least the same dammage to them they are doing to you after resistences and stuff are taken into account, but due to your higer hp you'll suck it up alot easyier.
basicly you cant tank them forever, but you can make it so it takes them so long to chew through you, you'll deal enough dammage to them to kill them first.
Just my personal experience
The Munnin or vagabond is the last thing a prophecy will see in space before _it_go_boom_ and you go OMGNERF. If you pull out a win 1v1 then don't take credit it was just the stupidity of the other guy. WCS? Give me a break.
jide's oBject eXplorer
The Nest
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: lythos miralbar
Im my personal experience, a BC can deffinately be equaly or better than a hac.
Ive fought about 7 hacs in a BC and every time its only thier wcs that have saved them.
BC have about twice the armor and shield hp of a hac, plus if you dont fit wcs (and i dont know many that would on a bc) you can at least match them in dammage output and normally do more than them. Plus as already mentioned you have your drone bay.
If you can get the ballance right you can do at least the same dammage to them they are doing to you after resistences and stuff are taken into account, but due to your higer hp you'll suck it up alot easyier.
basicly you cant tank them forever, but you can make it so it takes them so long to chew through you, you'll deal enough dammage to them to kill them first.
Just my personal experience
Hold on arent you the guy who claims to own HACs in his ferox, yet refuses to fight me in a brutix?
Originally by: "Sochin"
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just to dumb/stupid to use them
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:39:00 -
[33]
Quote:
The Munnin or vagabond is the last thing a prophecy will see in space before _it_go_boom_ and you go OMGNERF. If you pull out a win 1v1 then don't take credit it was just the stupidity of the other guy. WCS? Give me a break.
Munin's natural resistance are just horrible to any laser user, be it HAC, BS, or BC. The vagabond....<shudders> well look that the Best HAC for PvPthread to know my feeling about those.
Going frig guns on a BC will mean you will die to HACS. You just won't have the damage output, period. Try a smaller plate to fit the t2 Heavy Pulses if you fly a prophecy. With 6 going and a medium Nos your damage shouldn't be THAT far behind a Zealot. A Ganka Brutix that gets in close should be fairly effective as well, but I have never personally flown one. I have never tried an armortanked EW Ferox, but it seems like it should be possible. Knowing how frightening an EW Domi can be it seems like it would be an ebil suprise.
From what I have seen a BC must have massive firepower+damage mitigation+decent tanking in order to have a chance at killing a HAC. Even then it's touch and go. Hacs are just good And certain ones you just won't be effective against. Vagabond will just devour a Prophecy in most fights because of resists, although nos setups can help. For the BC pilot it's a matter of choosing targets wisely.
On the matter of WCS well.....I will concede that not EVERYONE uses them. Just 95% of HAC pilots. Seems that most folks don't like risking 100m worth of uninsurables. Heh, not that I blame them. I wouldn't either.
Nyxus
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:45:00 -
[34]
Why should i be more afraid of a munin and vagabond, compared to the deimos/isthar, Zealot/sacrilege?
A Deimos at close range, with cap enough to keep his guns running -> OUCH!!
A Zealot with the capability to stay out of my web range and keep firing -> Ouch!!
Am i wrong?.. Because if i am, please tell me what and why i should fear those more than others, the "omg you will go OMGNERF" dosent help me much  .
Tell me instead WHY he has an advantage over me, and how i might be able to beat that.
Experience beats Skill points, thats a fact, so why not exchange knowledge/experience instead?
/Mav
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:54:00 -
[35]
Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 13:55:51
If he has no cap left, then its a matter of time, and with Med/Heavy drones + 3 t2 small lasers, it should be able to kill him before backup arrives.
Ofc i would have to choose my targets carefully as pointed out myself, and the worst i could end up meeting is a hac with a nosf or 2, since it would kinda kill my advantage.
And in a situation like that, i gotta face the fact that i lost(since i cant get away, since i NEVER use WCS on any pvp setup).. i guess its kinda like gambling, and once i have learned to bet on the right horses, then i might be able to pop some hac's.
/Mav
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:02:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Nyxus
Vagabond will just devour a Prophecy in most fights because of resists, although nos setups can help. For the BC pilot it's a matter of choosing targets wisely.
Who says you have to fit lasers? 
Autocannon proph with like say 5 425 IIs and 2 medium neuts and 6 gyro IIs would slaughter a vaga .
Originally by: "Sochin"
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just to dumb/stupid to use them
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Apoll
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:16:00 -
[37]
Grrr DrunkenOne.
That's why I didn't post above the "alt" Prophecy I have under testing :)
You spoiled everything.
ofc never forget the Drones :) and most important you can fit 220mm & 1600mm plating (without use rcu) 
Regarding the resists are insane folks. Proph has 70EM - 40 EXP - 43.75 KIN - 51.25 THE
at Level 5. And worth to train it now because of the T2 BC. Put a T2 nano membrane if you feel unsafe :) or put an RCU and fit 2 1600mm platings. 
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:23:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Why should i be more afraid of a munin and vagabond, compared to the deimos/isthar, Zealot/sacrilege?
That's a fair question. First and foremost; Natural Resists. As I mostly fly a Prophecy when we are speaking of BC's, the innate 90% EM resists pretty much urinate in your Cheerios if you catch my drift. I am not saying it can't be done, but it's HARD to overcome that. The Vaga has a couple of things going for it. First is speed. At 2500 m/s it's only gonna be in your optimal for a VERY short period of time. Then it's gonna be under your guns where you can't do any significant damage. It's difficult to web it at that speed because by the time it is withing 10km and you activate the web it's already below your guns threshold. Also while a Nos setup and shut down it's tank easily, Projectile guns fire with almost no cap. So even Nos'd it's still got massive damage output.
Compare that to a deimos. With a web and a tracking disruptor you can pretty much shut it down, and while it moves fast it's not so fast that you can't slow it while it is still out of range. Obit + web means you may have a chance to stay out of gun range, or at least mostly.
Zealot is the same thing. Orbiting with some EW lowers it's effectiveness quite a bit. Still deadly, but most Zealot pilots don't close shorter than 10km because they fear the web. Some setups do come in sub 10km and you should rightly fear those.
The vast majority of all Sacrileges I have ever seen are Sucrileges. You probably can't break his tank without help, but the extremely low (read pathetic) damage output of heavy missiles gives you time to decide to warp out or stay.
The 5/5/5 nature of the Ishtar makes it a wildcard. You can never guess what one has equipped till you have engaged. You can bet there will be drones. Without a doubt scary, but sometimes you can get it while sometimes it will get you.
The speed of the Vaga leaves you very little room to make a mistake. It's difficult, if not impossible, to keep it from humping your exhaust ports. That combined with the extreme difficulty of shutting off it's offence even with Nos and natural resistance to lasers makes me fear it above all the other HACS.
That's not to say that all the other HACS are not dangerous. They are, incredibly so and should be attacked with extreme caution. They are deadly predators plying the waters between the stars. It's just that to me the Vaga slightly edges the others out in fear factor because battle with them is so unforgiving of mistakes.
Nyxus
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:06:00 -
[39]
Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 16:05:51
Thank you!
That was one of the most constructive comments ive seen to date.
Okay, so usually Vaga = No Go
But i guess its up to the pilot im up against, cause if its a new guy, ridding a Hac for the first time, might get scared to death when he sees his cap reaches 0 within very short time.
But your right, i cant hit him at that range, some blasters would be great then, but im not very good at blasters or autocannons, my strength lies with the amarr.
/Mav
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
Apoll
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:46:00 -
[40]
Normal (not futuristic ones) solutions against vagab then? Blastethron, Blastmos (Blaster Deimos) and any other kind of short range high tracking guns.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Apoll
Normal (not futuristic ones) solutions against vagab then? Blastethron, Blastmos (Blaster Deimos) and any other kind of short range high tracking guns.
Roger, thats no problem.. Gallente alt ftw 
And thx for the answers so far.
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
RUNYOUFOOLS
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:26:00 -
[42]
ffs sake nyx, with every post about hacs you make i weep, stop bigging up the vaga!!.
/me points out the fact its cap runs out faster then the burgers at a "all you can eat for free" restarant when the fat chick gets there. and the gapeing hole in its armour defensive.
ps i dont and never have use wcs on a hac, its pointless, you need all the advantages you can get to stay alive. fitting wcs will gimp your set-up, sure you can warp off, but you might not win.
/me ♥ veld
(notify) Your ship is no longer in the same location, so whatever it was you were trying to fails.
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:35:00 -
[43]
so are you saying its easy to kill with fx. my setup?
If you want peace prepare for war ! |
RUNYOUFOOLS
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:35:00 -
[44]
all im saying is that if any BC has a chance its the proph, its a damn nice ship.
/me ♥ veld
(notify) Your ship is no longer in the same location, so whatever it was you were trying to fails.
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Profess0r Mansechs0r
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS
all im saying is that if any BC has a chance its the proph, its a damn nice ship.
Brutix > Proph I think.......
Private lessons? |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:25:00 -
[46]
I am curious why you think the Brutix is better than the Prophecy, other than maybe looks factor. Brutix is a sectseh beast!
The Prophecy has the Brutix beat on almost all stats just looking in the database, the bonus to resists is almost certainly better than the armor repper bonus. Barring some absurd situation where a blaster Brutix drops out of warp 2km off my bow, I don't see where the Brutix would be significantly better than the Prophecy or Ferox. Can't comment on the cyclone as I have never flown one. Can you enlighten us here a bit?
For fleet combat......I think the Ferox is going to be the best. With it's hord of mids it can run the Command modules with fewer sacrifces than the Prophecy and sit back with the EW boats and shoot any tacklers that come close to them. Prophecy and Brutix just can't compete effectively there.
Nyxus
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Porro
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:59:00 -
[47]
I can't fly a prophecy but what about something like, 5 pulse, two neutralizers, bleh midslots :p, 1600 plate and damage mods, and probably an rcu to fit it all. You'd nuke most hac's cap and ability to tank and probably out damage them before they kill you. Unless they have a plate too or something 
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:29:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Nyxus
Quote:
The Munnin or vagabond is the last thing a prophecy will see in space before _it_go_boom_ and you go OMGNERF. If you pull out a win 1v1 then don't take credit it was just the stupidity of the other guy. WCS? Give me a break.
Munin's natural resistance are just horrible to any laser user, be it HAC, BS, or BC. The vagabond....<shudders> well look that the Best HAC for PvPthread to know my feeling about those.
Um... I was refering too Munnin + Vaga's ability to utterly obliterate a prophecy. I dun know if you were agreeing w. me or thought I was saying the proph was better... my sig should show you where my allegance lies!
jide's oBject eXplorer
The Nest
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Al Thorr
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:02:00 -
[49]
Ok a nice question but - aint there always a but :)
its not about the ship - tho it is a part . but its about the overall ability of the pilots. The ship is a tool just like a gun/ missle launcher etc. used the right way = ok used the wrong way = bad.
at the end of the day A prophecy is a good ship - but only to those with the skills to fly them. Also Hacs again are good ships but only in the hands of the person who is comfortable and skilled in using them .
Its all down to circumstances and experience Imho
Yeah I know I babble and the babble is over
Just an opinion
Regards Al Thorr
I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape |
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