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Propechy setup vs. Hac's

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LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.11 12:42:00 - [1] What kind of setup would be ideal for hunting Hac's in? I know that Hac's are friggin tough, but ill give it a try anyway... /Mav If you want peace prepare for war !
von Torgo	Posted - 2005.08.11 12:48:00 - [2] Originally by: LWMaverick What kind of setup would be ideal for hunting Hac's in? I know that Hac's are friggin tough, but ill give it a try anyway... I guess that depends what HAC you are fighting against. Generally I'd keep her close and suck her dry, while tanking the damage.
Elektra Storm	Posted - 2005.08.11 12:52:00 - [3] a Proph could "perhaps" kill a HAC, if you tanked the correct damage, and had **** hot skillage..
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.11 13:19:00 - [4] Yeah was thinking about alot of nosfs too, it might take awhile to kill it, but i got patience :P Hmm... Any ideas on a setup ? If you want peace prepare for war !
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.08.11 13:56:00 - [5] Here is a couple of hints and things to remember..... HAC pilots are essentially wussies. I have yet to see a HAC without a couple of stabbies, so you either have to bring a friend along to tackle or pwn him so fast he doesn't know what hit him. HACS have a LOT of damage output, you have to have a combination of reducing thier damage output and creative tanking. A balance between the 2 is important. A GOOD web is critical. Think 90% here. A Vagabond or Deimos is like a rabid wolverine and the web is your arm holding it away from your face. That wolverine is going to mangle your hand, but better that than your head. Also while it's busy gnawing you down to your shoulder you may have enough time to shoot it. T2 Medium guns are CRUCIAL. Your only advantage is that you can mount more of them to try and offset thier damage bonuses. Last bit: Don't forget the large/medium drones. Most BC's have decent sized drone bays while HAC's do not. You have to use every advantage that you can. It can be done, but you have to be sneaky. 2 HACs will spell your doom though. Pick your fights carefully, and if way outnumbered offer to 1v1. Most HAC pilots are overconfident enough to do it, and then the stabbies they have down low will just gimp them. Nyxus
Boonaki	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:15:00 - [6] Might be doable with lots of NOS's, ECM, and very high skills. Without ECM it would be rather hard to tank the kind of damage they dish out. You may be able to take out an eagle close range with tracking disrupters. Would take allot of testing though. Fear the Ibis of doom.
Sangxianc	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Nyxus HAC pilots are essentially wussies. - Do not deny yourself experience of that which lies beyond, behind the sun, in the world they call unpeopled.
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:37:00 - [8] As said above HAC pilots are little protective so they will have wcs on. That is good, because you can have your full combat setup and pop them. I'm testing a weird Proph setup atm. It's descent ship, plenty of modifications and life saving tanking. Also is cheap (the 1600mm armor is expensinve, but the rest fitting is fine) with insane resist and it will pay off from the very first moment you will undock. Nice design too :) I like it. Also is versatile ship. You can fit small med pulses and be the ultimate frig killer, med weapons kill cruisers/BC and few hacs. Weapon disruptor & weber is you friend :) or else you go for EW fitting :) nothing more annoying than jam your expensive HAC opponent and blow him :) Med weapons specialization is your friend but not neccesary use T2. if you can get cheaper the best named then you are fine. Ofc 1600mm plating T2 is must after a while and is cheaper. The best BC and one of the best ships in the game.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:42:00 - [9] Theres a difference between being protective and not being stupid in a HAC, specially sommat like a deimos as u have to be in the right situation otherwise it spells doom I dont run any stabs on my HACs, never have, never will. Dont believe me? I dont really care Only way for a BC to kill a HAC 1on1 is NOS and dmg type and even then its not guaranteed. You certainly wont kill an ishtar or suckriledge Forums: Sharks * MC
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.11 14:58:00 - [10] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 11/08/2005 14:58:27 Originally by: Eyeshadow Theres a difference between being protective and not being stupid in a HAC, specially sommat like a deimos as u have to be in the right situation otherwise it spells doom I dont run any stabs on my HACs, never have, never will. Dont believe me? I dont really care Only way for a BC to kill a HAC 1on1 is NOS and dmg type and even then its not guaranteed. You certainly wont kill an ishtar or suckriledge no offense, but you also fight about 95% of the time in empire. Guerilla runs in hostile territory in HACs is different than being in empire. Not saying you don't do guerilla runs in hostile territory, but I think you would agree that MC generally operates in empire, in groups/gank squads. HACs are the only things i fit stabs for, simply because I always get blobbed as soon as I kill something, 3-1 or so. And its a ***** trying to replace vagabonds cause it takes like 60 days to replace them. I Die A lot in this vid
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.11 15:58:00 - [11] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 11/08/2005 14:58:27 Originally by: Eyeshadow Theres a difference between being protective and not being stupid in a HAC, specially sommat like a deimos as u have to be in the right situation otherwise it spells doom I dont run any stabs on my HACs, never have, never will. Dont believe me? I dont really care Only way for a BC to kill a HAC 1on1 is NOS and dmg type and even then its not guaranteed. You certainly wont kill an ishtar or suckriledge no offense, but you also fight about 95% of the time in empire. Guerilla runs in hostile territory in HACs is different than being in empire. Not saying you don't do guerilla runs in hostile territory, but I think you would agree that MC generally operates in empire, in groups/gank squads. HACs are the only things i fit stabs for, simply because I always get blobbed as soon as I kill something, 3-1 or so. And its a ***** trying to replace vagabonds cause it takes like 60 days to replace them. Even on our rather frequent runs into 0.0, if i take my deimos, i dont fit stabs though it may be different for you peeps who live there all the time. If i lose a Deimos, i can usually get a replacement within a week. Im not exactly poor so the moneys not an issue either . Was just saying that stating that every HAC pilots runs stabs and are pussies is a falsehood. I hate generalisations Forums: Sharks * MC
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.11 15:59:00 - [12] Atm my propechy is in empire space, so i had to go with the ship fitting tool instead. And so far ive think of this: 3x Heavy Modulated beams (Maybe switch them for pulses and change the Pdu for a damage mod or so) 4x 'Knave' Nosfs 1x YS8 Afterburner 1x J5b(7.5k) 1x X5 Web(86.2%) 1x Med "acco" rep 3x Named Hardeners(Exp,Ken,Therm) 1x Pdu t2 1x Named Cpr + Heavy drones My cap usage with everything execpt the ab running is about 23 cap/sec. The nosfs provides 4x 32cap every 6 sec. Thats 22 cap/sec. + the 16.7 cap/sec. the cap recharge already provides me. That gives me spare cap, but i can imagine that most HAC's got a nosf or two itself. The damage output is kinda weak, but thats not necesary here(i think). The nosfs should kill his cap pretty fast, and i should be able to sustain a decent tank with the cap and hardeners. Please give me feedback on this. If you want peace prepare for war !
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.11 16:15:00 - [13] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 11/08/2005 16:18:21 Originally by: Eyeshadow Even on our rather frequent runs into 0.0, if i take my deimos, i dont fit stabs though it may be different for you peeps who live there all the time. If i lose a Deimos, i can usually get a replacement within a week. Im not exactly poor so the moneys not an issue either . Was just saying that stating that every HAC pilots runs stabs and are pussies is a falsehood. I hate generalisations Omg i forgot you guys have the bpo /me trains gallante and joins merc co btw, I wouldnt equate fitting stabs as being ***s. I occasionally fit 2 stabs on a vaga when solo hunting. Why? You are tactically more manueverable when solo hunting in hostile territory. I get to choose what I want to fight for the most part. This doesn't mean i go around ganking haulers or other *ness, I fight uneven odds daily. Hell just the other day in FD I tried to engage a group of 3 assault frigs and a BC in my vaga, but they ran and blobbed up with a bs and 3 more assault frigs. And the yesterday I engaged another vaga who had a crow with him and died . Anyways I'm off the point. The morale of the story is: give me a vagabond bpo. I Die A lot in this vid
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.08.11 16:26:00 - [14] Originally by: DrunkenOne Edited by: DrunkenOne on 11/08/2005 16:18:21 Originally by: Eyeshadow Even on our rather frequent runs into 0.0, if i take my deimos, i dont fit stabs though it may be different for you peeps who live there all the time. If i lose a Deimos, i can usually get a replacement within a week. Im not exactly poor so the moneys not an issue either . Was just saying that stating that every HAC pilots runs stabs and are pussies is a falsehood. I hate generalisations Omg i forgot you guys have the bpo /me trains gallante and joins merc co btw, I wouldnt equate fitting stabs as being ***s. I occasionally fit 2 stabs on a vaga when solo hunting. Why? You are tactically more manueverable when solo hunting in hostile territory. I get to choose what I want to fight for the most part. This doesn't mean i go around ganking haulers or other ness, I fight uneven odds daily. Hell just the other day in FD I tried to engage a group of 3 assault frigs and a BC in my vaga, but they ran and blobbed up with a bs and 3 more assault frigs. And the yesterday I engaged another vaga who had a crow with him and died . Anyways I'm off the point. The morale of the story is: give me a vagabond bpo. i can see the benfit of fitting stabs, i just prefer more mag stabs on my deimos. Like i just posted in another thread, i need as much dmg as possible, its the only way to beat bigger ships in a deimos as it doesnt have the speed of a vaga Oh and we dont just have deimos bpo Forums: Sharks MC
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.08.11 16:31:00 - [15] Originally by: LWMaverick Please give me feedback on this. Looks pretty good... but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't kill my Ishtar with that. You'd only be running slightly more nosfe than me, and my cap recharge is much better, so the cap balance would swing in my favor or at most be even. I'd have better resists (yes, taking your hardeners into account) and faster repair. I'd have 15 heavy drones vs your... 2? I'd be faster. You'd have bigger guns, but they would have serious problems due to me running a tracking disruptor on you. Of course, that's 1-vs-1. Take a few friends along, and things change fast. (and no, I don't ever use wcs's either, but then I'm in Empire)
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.11 16:37:00 - [16] Originally by: Eyeshadow Oh and we dont just have deimos bpo Guess its time to get an alt into MC... I mean... I Die A lot in this vid
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.11 17:24:00 - [17] yeah... i guess i need to pick my fights carefully. But it would be sweet to have a 45 mill ship(incl. equipment) beat a 100m ship(incl. equipment). What about some armor plates?.. Maybe live long enough on the plate to suck him dry and then kill him slowly with guns and drones?? /Mav If you want peace prepare for war !
Rasta Rocketman	Posted - 2005.08.11 17:54:00 - [18] Originally by: DrunkenOne HACs are the only things i fit stabs for, simply because I always get blobbed as soon as I kill something, 3-1 or so. And its a ***** trying to replace vagabonds cause it takes like 60 days to replace them. lol I agree. Those that complain about fitting stabs generally run in gank-herds and don't have to worry about it. Those that fly solo sometimes have to fit stabs to avoid the herding that always occurs. _______________________________________________
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.11 18:09:00 - [19] Oh and as far as a proph 6 heavy pulse IIs, 1 med nos mwd, web, scrambler 1600 plate, RCU to fit (dunno if u need it?), 4 heat sink IIs. Or drop the 1600 and the RCU for 6 heat sink IIs. Does nearly the damage of a zealot with pretty decent resists. You'd certainly *****any caldari HAC and could probably kill a deimos or ishtar depending on range/their fittings. I Die A lot in this vid
Bobby Wilson	Posted - 2005.08.11 19:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Nyxus A Vagabond or Deimos is like a rabid wolverine and the web is your arm holding it away from your face. That wolverine is going to mangle your hand, but better that than your head. Also while it's busy gnawing you down to your shoulder you may have enough time to shoot it. Thanks, another quote!!! BW Originally by: Mistress D'Malice POS outputs where fine...its the fuel that needed the help. Originally by: Nyxus A Vagabond or Deimos is like a rabid wolverine and the web is your arm holding it away f
von Torgo	Posted - 2005.08.12 07:16:00 - [21] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 11/08/2005 16:08:05 And so far ive think of this: 3x Heavy Modulated beams (Maybe switch them for pulses and change the Pdu for a damage mod or so) 4x 'Knave' Nosfs 1x YS8 Afterburner 1x J5b(7.5k) 1x X5 Web(86.2%) 1x Med "acco" rep 3x Named Hardeners(Exp,Ken,Therm) 1x Pdu t2 1x Named Cpr + Heavy drones Please give me feedback on this. Looks decent on paper. I'm too lazy to do math now, but I'd switch one nosferatu to neutralizer. I'd try to squeeze in a 1600mm plate too. Maybe by reducing damage output even further with smaller guns. I imagine this would lose to a suckrilege, but beat a Zealot if you can get to web range. And if you're fighting laser rats, use 2x thermal hardeners and one EM.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 08:13:00 - [22] I thought about that neutralizer too, i could give it a try. But switching to frig guns, to get a 1600mm plate squezed in, is that really such a good idea? When i say "Kill him slowly", dosent mean that i wanna wait 20+ min., cause by that time, his backup could be on the way. I can imagine, that 6-7k armor would give me a great buffer, especially if i meet a damage dealer like a Zealot and Deimos. BUT is it really necesary to kill speed and firepower by doing that? Feedback please If you want peace prepare for war !
von Torgo	Posted - 2005.08.12 08:37:00 - [23] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 08:21:09 I thought about that neutralizer too, i could give it a try. But switching to frig guns, to get a 1600mm plate squezed in, is that really such a good idea? When i say "Kill him slowly", dosent mean that i wanna wait 20+ min., cause by that time, his backup could be on the way. I can imagine, that 6k armor would give me a great buffer, especially if i meet a damage dealer like a Zealot and Deimos. BUT is it really necesary to kill speed and firepower by doing that? Feedback please No, not the frig guns. I was thinking about the quad beams. That would save you 480 grid alone (just about enough to fit 1600mm plates). You can further reduce it with advanced weapon upgrades. Damage output is not that much less and range is still enough. Besides, they can't tank without cap.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 08:54:00 - [24] Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 08:55:21 I tested(ship fitting) with above ideas and got to that a plate and medium guns dosent really work together here I tested the following setup: 3 Heavy Modulated pulses 1 Medium Rudementary Energy Destabilizer 3 "Knave" Nosfs 1 YS8 Ab 1 X5 Web 1 J5b(7.5k +2 Strength) 1 Med "Acco" rep 1 Small t2 Armor rep (just played around with this since i havent got much pg left to play with) 3 Named hardners(exp, ken, therm) 1 Pdu t2 My cap usage is now slighty higher, since a nos was switched for a Energy Destabilizer. The Small Armor rep is most likely being switched with a cpr, to keep the cap level in place. The Nosfs delivers a 3x 33 cap every 6 seconds wich brings it down to 16,5 cap/s, the ships capacitor delivers 9-16 cap/s(thats with a cpr instead of Small armor rep). That brings my cap level to about 25-32 cap/s (max, taken in mind that ab is not included in the cap usage, so that ofc has to be included too and taken height for). The cap usage with everything running(except ab) is about 32-33 cap/s. So i cant run my tank forever, but i might consider turning off the guns till i have sucked him dry, to keep my cap up(feedback here to please). The cap seems to be pretty tight, but on paper, it looks like i got cap enough to stay alive for a while(if ofc the repair and resistance can keep up with the damage dealt to me). But with this level of cap killing, he should run dry pretty fast(havent tested it though). This could be considered as the first step of actually doing it, and test how it works in a real-random-range fight, cause its a fact that it dosent always work as it should. Some input and thoughts about my setup and so on would be great! /Mav - Over'n'Out If you want peace prepare for war !
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 08:59:00 - [25] No, not the frig guns. I was thinking about the quad beams. That would save you 480 grid alone (just about enough to fit 1600mm plates). You can further reduce it with advanced weapon upgrades. Damage output is not that much less and range is still enough. Besides, they can't tank without cap. Your right about that, ill give it a shot in a few mins, and bring you the results. Meanwhile have a look at the above setup i just tested If you want peace prepare for war !
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 09:12:00 - [26] The Quad Modulated Light Enegery Beams(3)+ 1600mm rolled tungsten gives me a pg reading of 1700/1500 (by changing the Pdu -> Plate). So it seems i need to get up real close, if i have to switch to frig sized guns. But taken in mind that this setup is made for killing hacs, it still gives me a nice chance of killing frigs + cruisers and so on, if i choose frig guns(or med guns with good tracking). Ill have a look at a setup for with some frig guns. If you want peace prepare for war !
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 09:36:00 - [27] Okay, i got the results and its looking good so far. I fitted 3 Medium Beam t2 (frig sized), and it brings my pg to 1484/1500 (the ship fitting are not taking height for the adv. weapon upgrade). With everything running the cap usage is at 32.5/s and the recharge rat is at 9-12 cap/s + the 16.5 from the nosfs brings me to 25-28.5 cap/s(32.5/s usage vs. 25-28.5/s). Thats not all that bad, considering i got 5.9k armor and an average resistance at 62% or so. If you want peace prepare for war !
Kardinaal	Posted - 2005.08.12 10:37:00 - [28] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 08:55:21 3 Heavy Modulated pulses 1 Medium Rudementary Energy Destabilizer 3 "Knave" Nosfs 1 YS8 Ab 1 X5 Web 1 J5b(7.5k +2 Strength) 1 Med "Acco" rep 1 Small t2 Armor rep (just played around with this since i havent got much pg left to play with) 3 Named hardners(exp, ken, therm) 1 Pdu t2 That brings my cap level to about 25-32 cap/s (max, taken in mind that ab is not included in the cap usage, so that ofc has to be included too and taken height for). The cap usage with everything running(except ab) is about 32-33 cap/s. You might be able to keep your cap running. Capacitator reload is not constant. It is highest around 30% to 35%. There's a good chance your cap will go down to 40% or so, and be able to hold there. Unless the HAC nosses you too... Then it's bye bye cap... Also, it might be nice to fit an assault launcher in stead of one of the pulses, or even in stead of the neutralizer. Will make you use less cap, and you can use FOFs for a nasty surprise for that dronebucket Ishtar This should also give you a little more PG to play with, so you might be able to use a cap relay in stead of that PDU II, or a energized regenerative membrane II to give some more armour. This will add 468 armour for allmost no grid/cpu. It will give you better return than a nano, cause of the high stacking penalty for resistances.
Ortu Konsinni	Posted - 2005.08.12 11:27:00 - [29] It never even occurred to me that I could fit a warp core stab on my HACs until I read this topic. That says a lot about how (un)likely it is that I will ever do it in the future :)
Cmdr Patrick	Posted - 2005.08.12 12:12:00 - [30] I think nyxus was just speeking from experiance Ikvar > This peice of **** is greifing me
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.12 12:36:00 - [31] Originally by: lythos miralbar Im my personal experience, a BC can deffinately be equaly or better than a hac. Ive fought about 7 hacs in a BC and every time its only thier wcs that have saved them. BC have about twice the armor and shield hp of a hac, plus if you dont fit wcs (and i dont know many that would on a bc) you can at least match them in dammage output and normally do more than them. Plus as already mentioned you have your drone bay. If you can get the ballance right you can do at least the same dammage to them they are doing to you after resistences and stuff are taken into account, but due to your higer hp you'll suck it up alot easyier. basicly you cant tank them forever, but you can make it so it takes them so long to chew through you, you'll deal enough dammage to them to kill them first. Just my personal experience The Munnin or vagabond is the last thing a prophecy will see in space before _it_go_boom_ and you go OMGNERF. If you pull out a win 1v1 then don't take credit it was just the stupidity of the other guy. WCS? Give me a break. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.12 13:35:00 - [32] Originally by: lythos miralbar Im my personal experience, a BC can deffinately be equaly or better than a hac. Ive fought about 7 hacs in a BC and every time its only thier wcs that have saved them. BC have about twice the armor and shield hp of a hac, plus if you dont fit wcs (and i dont know many that would on a bc) you can at least match them in dammage output and normally do more than them. Plus as already mentioned you have your drone bay. If you can get the ballance right you can do at least the same dammage to them they are doing to you after resistences and stuff are taken into account, but due to your higer hp you'll suck it up alot easyier. basicly you cant tank them forever, but you can make it so it takes them so long to chew through you, you'll deal enough dammage to them to kill them first. Just my personal experience Hold on arent you the guy who claims to own HACs in his ferox, yet refuses to fight me in a brutix? Originally by: "Sochin" CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just to dumb/stupid to use them
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.08.12 13:39:00 - [33] Quote: The Munnin or vagabond is the last thing a prophecy will see in space before _it_go_boom_ and you go OMGNERF. If you pull out a win 1v1 then don't take credit it was just the stupidity of the other guy. WCS? Give me a break. Munin's natural resistance are just horrible to any laser user, be it HAC, BS, or BC. The vagabond....<shudders> well look that the Best HAC for PvPthread to know my feeling about those. Going frig guns on a BC will mean you will die to HACS. You just won't have the damage output, period. Try a smaller plate to fit the t2 Heavy Pulses if you fly a prophecy. With 6 going and a medium Nos your damage shouldn't be THAT far behind a Zealot. A Ganka Brutix that gets in close should be fairly effective as well, but I have never personally flown one. I have never tried an armortanked EW Ferox, but it seems like it should be possible. Knowing how frightening an EW Domi can be it seems like it would be an ebil suprise. From what I have seen a BC must have massive firepower+damage mitigation+decent tanking in order to have a chance at killing a HAC. Even then it's touch and go. Hacs are just good And certain ones you just won't be effective against. Vagabond will just devour a Prophecy in most fights because of resists, although nos setups can help. For the BC pilot it's a matter of choosing targets wisely. On the matter of WCS well.....I will concede that not EVERYONE uses them. Just 95% of HAC pilots. Seems that most folks don't like risking 100m worth of uninsurables. Heh, not that I blame them. I wouldn't either. Nyxus
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 13:45:00 - [34] Why should i be more afraid of a munin and vagabond, compared to the deimos/isthar, Zealot/sacrilege? A Deimos at close range, with cap enough to keep his guns running -> OUCH!! A Zealot with the capability to stay out of my web range and keep firing -> Ouch!! Am i wrong?.. Because if i am, please tell me what and why i should fear those more than others, the "omg you will go OMGNERF" dosent help me much . Tell me instead WHY he has an advantage over me, and how i might be able to beat that. Experience beats Skill points, thats a fact, so why not exchange knowledge/experience instead? /Mav If you want peace prepare for war !
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 13:54:00 - [35] Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 13:55:51 If he has no cap left, then its a matter of time, and with Med/Heavy drones + 3 t2 small lasers, it should be able to kill him before backup arrives. Ofc i would have to choose my targets carefully as pointed out myself, and the worst i could end up meeting is a hac with a nosf or 2, since it would kinda kill my advantage. And in a situation like that, i gotta face the fact that i lost(since i cant get away, since i NEVER use WCS on any pvp setup).. i guess its kinda like gambling, and once i have learned to bet on the right horses, then i might be able to pop some hac's. /Mav If you want peace prepare for war !
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.08.12 14:02:00 - [36] Originally by: Nyxus Vagabond will just devour a Prophecy in most fights because of resists, although nos setups can help. For the BC pilot it's a matter of choosing targets wisely. Who says you have to fit lasers? Autocannon proph with like say 5 425 IIs and 2 medium neuts and 6 gyro IIs would slaughter a vaga . Originally by: "Sochin" CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just to dumb/stupid to use them
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.12 14:16:00 - [37] Grrr DrunkenOne. That's why I didn't post above the "alt" Prophecy I have under testing :) You spoiled everything. ofc never forget the Drones :) and most important you can fit 220mm & 1600mm plating (without use rcu) Regarding the resists are insane folks. Proph has 70EM - 40 EXP - 43.75 KIN - 51.25 THE at Level 5. And worth to train it now because of the T2 BC. Put a T2 nano membrane if you feel unsafe :) or put an RCU and fit 2 1600mm platings.
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.08.12 14:23:00 - [38] Quote: Why should i be more afraid of a munin and vagabond, compared to the deimos/isthar, Zealot/sacrilege? That's a fair question. First and foremost; Natural Resists. As I mostly fly a Prophecy when we are speaking of BC's, the innate 90% EM resists pretty much urinate in your Cheerios if you catch my drift. I am not saying it can't be done, but it's HARD to overcome that. The Vaga has a couple of things going for it. First is speed. At 2500 m/s it's only gonna be in your optimal for a VERY short period of time. Then it's gonna be under your guns where you can't do any significant damage. It's difficult to web it at that speed because by the time it is withing 10km and you activate the web it's already below your guns threshold. Also while a Nos setup and shut down it's tank easily, Projectile guns fire with almost no cap. So even Nos'd it's still got massive damage output. Compare that to a deimos. With a web and a tracking disruptor you can pretty much shut it down, and while it moves fast it's not so fast that you can't slow it while it is still out of range. Obit + web means you may have a chance to stay out of gun range, or at least mostly. Zealot is the same thing. Orbiting with some EW lowers it's effectiveness quite a bit. Still deadly, but most Zealot pilots don't close shorter than 10km because they fear the web. Some setups do come in sub 10km and you should rightly fear those. The vast majority of all Sacrileges I have ever seen are Sucrileges. You probably can't break his tank without help, but the extremely low (read pathetic) damage output of heavy missiles gives you time to decide to warp out or stay. The 5/5/5 nature of the Ishtar makes it a wildcard. You can never guess what one has equipped till you have engaged. You can bet there will be drones. Without a doubt scary, but sometimes you can get it while sometimes it will get you. The speed of the Vaga leaves you very little room to make a mistake. It's difficult, if not impossible, to keep it from humping your exhaust ports. That combined with the extreme difficulty of shutting off it's offence even with Nos and natural resistance to lasers makes me fear it above all the other HACS. That's not to say that all the other HACS are not dangerous. They are, incredibly so and should be attacked with extreme caution. They are deadly predators plying the waters between the stars. It's just that to me the Vaga slightly edges the others out in fear factor because battle with them is so unforgiving of mistakes. Nyxus
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 16:06:00 - [39] Edited by: LWMaverick on 12/08/2005 16:05:51 Thank you! That was one of the most constructive comments ive seen to date. Okay, so usually Vaga = No Go But i guess its up to the pilot im up against, cause if its a new guy, ridding a Hac for the first time, might get scared to death when he sees his cap reaches 0 within very short time. But your right, i cant hit him at that range, some blasters would be great then, but im not very good at blasters or autocannons, my strength lies with the amarr. /Mav If you want peace prepare for war !
Apoll	Posted - 2005.08.12 16:46:00 - [40] Normal (not futuristic ones) solutions against vagab then? Blastethron, Blastmos (Blaster Deimos) and any other kind of short range high tracking guns.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 17:16:00 - [41] Originally by: Apoll Normal (not futuristic ones) solutions against vagab then? Blastethron, Blastmos (Blaster Deimos) and any other kind of short range high tracking guns. Roger, thats no problem.. Gallente alt ftw And thx for the answers so far. If you want peace prepare for war !
RUNYOUFOOLS	Posted - 2005.08.12 17:26:00 - [42] ffs sake nyx, with every post about hacs you make i weep, stop bigging up the vaga!!. /me points out the fact its cap runs out faster then the burgers at a "all you can eat for free" restarant when the fat chick gets there. and the gapeing hole in its armour defensive. ps i dont and never have use wcs on a hac, its pointless, you need all the advantages you can get to stay alive. fitting wcs will gimp your set-up, sure you can warp off, but you might not win. /me ♥ veld (notify) Your ship is no longer in the same location, so whatever it was you were trying to fails.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2005.08.12 17:35:00 - [43] so are you saying its easy to kill with fx. my setup? If you want peace prepare for war !
RUNYOUFOOLS	Posted - 2005.08.12 19:35:00 - [44] all im saying is that if any BC has a chance its the proph, its a damn nice ship. /me ♥ veld (notify) Your ship is no longer in the same location, so whatever it was you were trying to fails.
Profess0r Mansechs0r	Posted - 2005.08.12 19:42:00 - [45] Originally by: RUNYOUFOOLS all im saying is that if any BC has a chance its the proph, its a damn nice ship. Brutix > Proph I think....... Private lessons?
Nyxus	Posted - 2005.08.12 22:25:00 - [46] I am curious why you think the Brutix is better than the Prophecy, other than maybe looks factor. Brutix is a sectseh beast! The Prophecy has the Brutix beat on almost all stats just looking in the database, the bonus to resists is almost certainly better than the armor repper bonus. Barring some absurd situation where a blaster Brutix drops out of warp 2km off my bow, I don't see where the Brutix would be significantly better than the Prophecy or Ferox. Can't comment on the cyclone as I have never flown one. Can you enlighten us here a bit? For fleet combat......I think the Ferox is going to be the best. With it's hord of mids it can run the Command modules with fewer sacrifces than the Prophecy and sit back with the EW boats and shoot any tacklers that come close to them. Prophecy and Brutix just can't compete effectively there. Nyxus
Porro	Posted - 2005.08.12 22:59:00 - [47] I can't fly a prophecy but what about something like, 5 pulse, two neutralizers, bleh midslots :p, 1600 plate and damage mods, and probably an rcu to fit it all. You'd nuke most hac's cap and ability to tank and probably out damage them before they kill you. Unless they have a plate too or something
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.12 23:29:00 - [48] Originally by: Nyxus Quote: The Munnin or vagabond is the last thing a prophecy will see in space before _it_go_boom_ and you go OMGNERF. If you pull out a win 1v1 then don't take credit it was just the stupidity of the other guy. WCS? Give me a break. Munin's natural resistance are just horrible to any laser user, be it HAC, BS, or BC. The vagabond....<shudders> well look that the Best HAC for PvPthread to know my feeling about those. Um... I was refering too Munnin + Vaga's ability to utterly obliterate a prophecy. I dun know if you were agreeing w. me or thought I was saying the proph was better... my sig should show you where my allegance lies! jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Al Thorr	Posted - 2005.08.13 01:02:00 - [49] Ok a nice question but - aint there always a but :) its not about the ship - tho it is a part . but its about the overall ability of the pilots. The ship is a tool just like a gun/ missle launcher etc. used the right way = ok used the wrong way = bad. at the end of the day A prophecy is a good ship - but only to those with the skills to fly them. Also Hacs again are good ships but only in the hands of the person who is comfortable and skilled in using them . Its all down to circumstances and experience Imho Yeah I know I babble and the babble is over Just an opinion Regards Al Thorr I Am in shape, ROUND is a shape

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