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Rukkal
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Posted - 2005.08.11 18:52:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Rukkal on 11/08/2005 18:52:06
Good Afternoon All,
I've been playing about 3 weeks and ramping up to being able to fly a Merlin Frigate. Since it has two missle hardpoints I figure I better learn to fire the suckers. I had been thinking of putting a Defender Missle into one of the slots to help with defense.
Now I've read through the forums and seen some comments that the Defender missle is now useless due to some Missle Patch. Has this been confirmed? Should I just forget about training/using Defender missles?
Rukkal
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:07:00 -
[2]
They are not useless but not very usefull either, against heavy missiles they can be good but against standard/rocket they are not practical. But just get the skill up to 2-3 (should take no time) and carry a few in your cargobay, you have very little to loose by it.
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:10:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Quanteeri on 11/08/2005 19:15:53
I agree, they aren't useless, but they aren't very useful either. I guess there's a time and place for everything, but you'd probably be better off using the launcher point for causing damage than avoiding it.
The only time they are really useful is when loaded into rocket launchers, because the high refire rate, but once the incoming missiles get in to close enough proximity to your ship, they become utterly useless since they begin to launch out to missiles that they have no chance of catching before impact.
There is no AI to tell the missile whether it can actually catch a missile or just let it by and go for one that it can catch. Once the incoming missiles get close enough, most of your defenders just fly off into space, since they targeted something that has already made contact.
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:18:00 -
[4]
Maybe they should bring back the point defence ships that they promised oh so long ago?
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Aleis
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:29:00 -
[5]
actulay a Defender launcher, one that auto fires so you don't have to sit there pounding your F-keys to make sure one launches ASAP.
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:32:00 -
[6]
I would just like them to be smart enough to know that they can't hit anything inside ~10km, and move on to another target.
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Rukkal
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:21:00 -
[7]
Thanks Everyone,
Guess I'll leave the Defender missles off of my loadout for now...
Rukkal
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SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:23:00 -
[8]
tbh i'd like to get those super defenders that NPCs use ... somehow they manage to take out torps with just 1.
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Emily Spankratchet
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Posted - 2005.08.11 22:25:00 -
[9]
I'd say that they're useless most of the time. Very occasionally, they actually work. This can be a pleasant surprise, but I don't really know why I still try to use them.
I was doing Spy Stash this evening. In the first level, I had a couple of the bigger rats spamming heavy missiles at me. They were ~30-40km away and - miracle of miracles - my defenders actually worked. It was great.
In the second level, I was having a hard time with the rats and the turrets. Now, when I really needed them, my defenders were zig-zagging around in space. At one point they actually fired away from the incoming missiles and off into space. Several times they appeared to destroy the incoming missile a few km from my ship but I still suffered damage.
So: definitely useless for rockets and lights. Occasionally useful for heavies and upwards. They definitely need some loving.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:01:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Hoshi
They are not useless but not very usefull either, against heavy missiles they can be good but against standard/rocket they are not practical. But just get the skill up to 2-3 (should take no time) and carry a few in your cargobay, you have very little to loose by it.
Very little to lose, except, some grid, some cpu, a bunch of cargo space for the defenders, and a high slot.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:05:00 -
[11]
Defenders have little value in PvE and no value in PvP.
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Vydek Daamth
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Defenders have little value in PvE and no value in PvP.
Sadly very true.
They use to be part of my PvP setup. 
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Kaaii
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:36:00 -
[13]
They do make good stocking stuffers tho...
"..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, then stand with One thousand sheep.."
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Silentbrick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 02:55:00 -
[14]
When I run level II and III missions, I keep an Assault launcher on my caracal loaded with defenders and find that at the ranges I try to engage 40-80km, it's very useful against missiles. Inside of 30km though, the missiles travel too fast for easy interception but they work well enough that I'll continue to use them.
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Nuala Reece
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Posted - 2005.08.12 10:31:00 -
[15]
Think I agree with Silentbrick, there's still use for them at range, but for a merlin fighting close in Rukkal I wouldn't bother - better to use your missiles to kill the other guy quicker.
If you're worried about missiles hitting you concentrate on the merlin's natural strengths for defense instead. Frigates have speed and if you get a MWD on it you'll outrun missiles anyway so long as you're not too close. And the merlin has some tough shields - you can always tank them to resist the damage and hope to take the bad guys down before they take you 
Be Free
Freelancing Corp |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.12 10:41:00 -
[16]
what that last poster said :)
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2005.08.12 11:05:00 -
[17]
You just need to know how and where defenders will work beforre you say they are broken.
Defenders won't really work at under 12km due to missle speed and short distances. So rockets are most definatly out and lights are 80% out. Hvys are in as well as the other 2 missles classes.
IF you know your weapons then you should be able to figure out how to use them. If you just whine and don't BOTHER using your time to figure out to play and use them, then you are just LAZY!
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
Brede Cleary
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Posted - 2005.08.12 11:15:00 -
[18]
I retrained my defenders to throw rocks at the incoming missles. Sometimes the rocks hit the incoming ones and mess up their guidance system so they fly aimlessly out into space. Other times the defenders don't pay attention to where they're going because they're too busy throwing rocks and they accidently run into the incoming missles. 
Next I'm going to teach them how to fetch pizza and beer.  |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.12 12:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kaaii
They do make good stocking stuffers tho...
No doubt one of those gifts that gets exchanged for something you wanted more. :)
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Rafein
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Posted - 2005.08.12 14:41:00 -
[20]
They are as good as gunneries, anti gun system
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Hoshi
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaell Meynn
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 12/08/2005 02:07:07
Originally by: Hoshi
They are not useless but not very usefull either, against heavy missiles they can be good but against standard/rocket they are not practical. But just get the skill up to 2-3 (should take no time) and carry a few in your cargobay, you have very little to loose by it.
Very little to lose, except, some grid, some cpu, a bunch of cargo space for the defenders, and a high slot.
Pretty much all missile defence systems are close to useless after the recent missile changes. MWD (too hard to outrun missiles now, and you take MORE damage when they hit you), SB (missiles move to fast to time it right, and if you do, you can't get very many of the missiles at once), and defenders (well, they just suck, but they are cheap enough that you can buy the skill, put them in a rocket launcher, and test them yourself to find out they suck).
My advice, don't take advice from other people, test it for yourself, see what happens, and then come ***** about it on the forums like everyone else (yes, that includes me, as you can see from my rant about MWD, SB, Defenders above)  .
Yes very little to loose, just some cargo space. He was going to fly a Merlin so he would have that launcher there anyway, just a choice of what missiles to bring to arm it with (and as it can be changed in space they ONLY thing you loose is cargospace).
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:01:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 12/08/2005 17:02:06
Originally by: Rafein
They are as good as gunneries, anti gun system
Are you kidding?
You think defenders being utterly useless is in any way comparable to tracking disruptors and their mind-boggling effectiveness against turret battleships? Originally by: Deadzone
IF you know your weapons then you should be able to figure out how to use them. If you just whine and don't BOTHER using your time to figure out to play and use them, then you are just LAZY!
They are useless in PvP because they do not work at ranges you are likley to encounter fire from. They are useless in PvP because the ranges they do work on are gank-turret battleship ranges, which means you have 5 seconds to live and missiles probably wont have time to hit you anyway.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:43:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Kaell Meynn on 12/08/2005 17:44:28
Originally by: Rafein
They are as good as gunneries, anti gun system
Tracking disruptors? No they are not.
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Rukkal
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Posted - 2005.08.12 17:49:00 -
[24]
Wow, lots of great input on this thread. Thanks everyone for the great feedback! I might now last 6 minutes when fighting in my Merlin instead of only 5. :)
Is there a section of the forum that discusses the different ships and how to best use them? I've tried using the "Search" function under the Eve Support section of this site but I'm not having much luck.
Rukkal
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:00:00 -
[25]
Try training the missile skills. Defenders still work fine except now you cant do alot with only defender lvl 1 and rockets 1.
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Che Molex
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Posted - 2006.01.29 13:26:00 -
[26]
re searching EVE forums
Use Google Advanced Search restricted to the EVE Domain
by putting " http://myeve.eve-online.com/ "
in the line after "return results from the site or domain"
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.01.29 13:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Quanteeri
I would just like them to be smart enough to know that they can't hit anything inside ~10km, and move on to another target.
25km. Sigh.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Warning: above post may contain traces of sarcasm.
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St Dragon
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Posted - 2006.01.29 14:53:00 -
[28]
If i was a dev id do 2 things to Fix defender missiles
1. Id make them an auto launch wepon
2. They will defend you first gang members second
Both would apply when someone fires a missile at you or your gang members.
-----------------------------------------------
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
Zek Kotari
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Posted - 2006.01.29 14:58:00 -
[29]
Quote:
re searching EVE forums
Use Google Advanced Search restricted to the EVE Domain
by putting " http://myeve.eve-online.com/ "
in the line after "return results from the site or domain"
But beware that this may turn up threads threads that are almost six months old |
Filan
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Posted - 2006.01.29 15:01:00 -
[30]
if defenders would defend gang members and could just be left turned on then you could have a good method of defense. "Caracal Point Defense" 5x rockets all with defenders, nothing would hit the battleships in your fleet probally.
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