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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Steppa
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Posted - 2005.08.11 18:55:00 -
[1]
This has now happened to me twice.
You're in combat, you are losing, you warp to safety. Except in my case, once the warp finished, I was 15au away and STILL getting hit and taking damage. I still had the enemy locked as well. The three pvp'rs shooting at me all were listed in my overview at 15au distance.
On their screens, it was if I'd never warped, but according to my client, I most assuredly did. I have the screenshots to prove it.
Now. I did what we're supposed to do. I submitted a petition and a bug report. GM-Zworm, however, informs me that since nothing resembling what I'm reporting shows up in their logs, they can't do anything about it.
So apparently CCP's opinion on this is, it doesn't exist. I understand that there are many exploiters out there. However, I've lost almost a dozen HAC's (mostly deimos) so why would I ***** about the loss of another?
What's my next step? Where is the corporate-consumer relationship if there is no mechanism beyond this first stage? Why should I bother continuing to play this game with expensive/time-consuming items and ships if I can loose them for no apparent reason and have CCP put their hands over their ears and scream LA LA LA LA LA LA!
I'm very frustrated about this and have no idea what to do about it. I lost an Ishtar fully loaded with named and tech 2 gear. I lost a premium clone. I lost a lot of respect for CCP.
Hell, I lost an Enyo the next day and didn't *****. I didn't ***** about the previous eight HAC's I've lost to my own stupidity. But when I'm down a ship because of the game mechanics, or lack thereof, and there's NO way to redress this, I just don't know what to do about it.
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Reptar
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:06:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Steppa
CCP put their hands over their ears and scream LA LA LA LA LA LA!
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:10:00 -
[3]
displacement bug, mis-communication between client and server, said it yet again for the 50th time in the dev blog 
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Steppa
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:15:00 -
[4]
From GM-Zworm
No bug was at work according to our logs. Unfortunately, we can not use player submitted evidence in our research. We are sorry, but this our final word on this issue. Your ship will not be reimbursed as I said earlier.
So to CCP, this didn't happen because their logs are insufficient to track an event caused by the mechanics of the game. What does that say about their methodology when it comes to bug tracking and such?
Eve is among my favorite recreational past-times. The way this is going down, however, is seriously shaking my desire to invest any more time.
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laraea
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:21:00 -
[5]
Tricky situation...
I'm sorry, I have to say it, I just have to...
Can I have your stuff? Pleease?
(sorry, couldn't resist)
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qrac
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:22:00 -
[6]
Edited by: qrac on 11/08/2005 19:22:33
Originally by: Steppa
From GM-Zworm
bla bla
So to CCP, this didn't happen because their logs are insufficient to track an event caused by the mechanics of the game. What does that say about their methodology when it comes to bug tracking and such?
Eve is among my favorite recreational past-times. The way this is going down, however, is seriously shaking my desire to invest any more time.
if they don't see anything strange in the logs then they can't do anything... for all we know the screenshot might be a fake.
btw u might want to edit out the gm conversation ;)
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:23:00 -
[7]
Edited by: j0sephine on 11/08/2005 19:24:17
"So to CCP, this didn't happen because their logs are insufficient to track an event caused by the mechanics of the game. What does that say about their methodology when it comes to bug tracking and such?"
If the error is caused by your game client thinking it managed to warp away, while from the point of view of the server you never actually moved, how are the server-based logs ever supposed to show what your game client --miles and miles away-- presumed and shown to you? And how would you track it, short of sending every single thing the game client presumes back to the server, for comparison? ^^;;
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:32:00 -
[8]
You are not allowed to post exact GM replies.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
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Steppa
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:32:00 -
[9]
That's exactly my point. I know it happened that I'm not bull****ting about it. The point here is that something CAN happen in the game that they have no way of identifying, let alone redressing or correcting. Doesn't that bother you?
No, you can't have my stuff :) I'd melt it and jettison the minerals first :)
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Neslo
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 11/08/2005 19:24:17
"So to CCP, this didn't happen because their logs are insufficient to track an event caused by the mechanics of the game. What does that say about their methodology when it comes to bug tracking and such?"
If the error is caused by your game client thinking it managed to warp away, while from the point of view of the server you never actually moved, how are the server-based logs ever supposed to show what your game client --miles and miles away-- presumed and shown to you? And how would you track it, short of sending every single thing the game client presumes back to the server, for comparison? ^^;;
Well I'd agree except when this happens and you try and fire.... it says "Target is 15AU away from you and you must be within 786546km to fire" ... so your client lags and says you made it out... but the server doesn't see it that way... but your client forces you into being killed.... how's that fair?....
Anyways I know how this guy feels as it's happened with me and NPCs and getting stuck on roids from the server perspective (or not being able to open a can cuz I'm not close enough on the servers perspective)... I mean... if the client is gonna FUBAR up like that why play the game when you complain about it and the response is "That never happened... Our server log shows different"
Now mind you... logs can be forged... players can lie.... but that doesn't change the fact that the bug is still there in the game.... anyways... hope it gets fixed in the upcoming "bug fixes" promised by oveur.
From Ashes to Ashes... From Dust to Dust....
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Steppa
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:44:00 -
[11]
I was not aware of a policy regarding posting the exact nature of a GM's response.
To sum up, he said they couldn't find any evidence of a bug in their logs, so I don't get my ship back.
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Steppa
I was not aware of a policy regarding posting the exact nature of a GM's response.
To sum up, he said they couldn't find any evidence of a bug in their logs, so I don't get my ship back.
It's mentioned in the Forum Rules.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.08.11 19:48:00 -
[13]
don`t expect it fixed soon as it took several patches during beta to get it fixed
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SGXiphias
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:06:00 -
[14]
Edited by: SGXiphias on 11/08/2005 20:06:36
Wow this is rediculous, He has SCREENSHOTS proving it, and they still wont replace his ship. Id go up the chain man, all the way up the CEO of CCP if it comes to it, im sure i could find some contact info for him if you like.
EDIT: infact, you replaced another corp mates ship who had the same problem, warped away and was still taking damage.
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qrac
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:08:00 -
[15]
meh.. now i have to write my reply all over again because eris deleted my post 
if the gm's are to take action based on evidence from the player then certain individuals will try to exploit it and therefore gm's can only go by what their logs tell them.
the logs can't show everything because if ccp logged every single thing then the game would be unplayable.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
qrac
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: SGXiphias
EDIT: infact, you replaced another corp mates ship who had the same problem, warped away and was still taking damage.
in this case the logs might have shown something but not in steppa's case.
it is pretty easy to make a fake screenshot.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:17:00 -
[17]
I wonder if this is related to the lock bug - ie you lock a target, get "Your attempt to target <whatever> has failed."
And then the other one where you lock a target, it appears locked, and then is immediately unlocked. The ships weren't immune due to warp/jumping because they were actively firing. These are big bugs because they can easily lead to people being completely unable to defend themselves in pvp.
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Steppa
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:20:00 -
[18]
I don't know about that, but I do know that while hunting npc's directly prior to this incident, I was trying to open loot cans that were less than 1000 meters from me, but got the "You must be within 1500 meters..." error. Likewise for recovering my drones. Even at less than the required distance, they would not Scoop To Drone Bay and had to be manually collected.
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Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:24:00 -
[19]
I've lost a Deimos recently to a bug dealing with NPCs, but was not reembursed because the GMs are unable to see if I actually have my active hardeners running or not.
What do they expect us to do? Run the log server 23/7 while playing? We didn't sign up to play on the live server to TEST the game and lose irreplaceable stuff to BUGS and not get the stuff back. That's what Singularity is for.
The key problem is CCP does not log every action the client makes. The only alternative is to log everything the lcient does on OUR end, in such a way that it is not human editable with off-the-shelf programs. The State Recording feature listed in the new sections of the patch notes seems to prove that CCP recognizes this problem, and this is probably a solution for it.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." |
Shai Faetal
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:25:00 -
[20]
server <-> lag
u might wanna check ur internet connection.
try ping plotter and ping the eve server :o. awhile ago ccp had some kind of experiment with ping plotter to find out where they where losing packets going out of the servers in londen?.
afaik its not an exploit its not a bug. it's just lag. if this happend during patch day or after it :D with u and the rest of eve ccp would re-imburse but in this case whatever ur client tells u it just wrong.
if u initiated a warp command ur client followed it but due to "net faillure" on ur side the data might not have been sent and on the server u never inititaed a warp :) cool huh 
oh and if u know u are having lag problems even if it is 1vs1 or just 1 turret firing try.
CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+T - turn off all turret effects
both not just handy in fleet battles 
CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+E - turn off all special effects
this happend to me just once, way in castor days, i got jumped by 2 bs and then my screen went "grey".
after being told by the gm that they would give me my ship back, i went and serached for the problem at home and behold, stupid internet signal was too weak to send/receive data .
ever since then i have been known as the king er... queen of pvp  . some'n lie tha!
try it sometime.
http://www.pingplotter.com/
and Good Luck!
-
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:28:00 -
[21]
I had this once too and once my enemy got it :) i blown the scorpion in warp.
From what i see of Eve client guessing where are you if it deosnt get server reply in time, you cant avoid it.
Sucks but happens .Like you said you lost 8 hacs to your own stupidinty , once you got bad luck, happens.Im sorry for you but i dont see a tragedy here.
Bugs happens if they are rare its acceptable.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.08.11 20:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Steppa
I don't know about that, but I do know that while hunting npc's directly prior to this incident, I was trying to open loot cans that were less than 1000 meters from me, but got the "You must be within 1500 meters..." error. Likewise for recovering my drones. Even at less than the required distance, they would not Scoop To Drone Bay and had to be manually collected.
I get this often nowadays.Last time i remmber i had it often was with serious server problems long time ago.Guess its related to server issues they posted, hope they solve it soon.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
KrogothZero
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Posted - 2005.08.11 21:18:00 -
[23]
I had this one a while ago and lost my raven with a full set of arb siege and faction mods (pre missle changes) 
To make matters worse my ship didnt drop the none destroyed modules in a can, when the gm gave my the ship back with only one shield hardener on it I was not best pleased |
Dsanta2345
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Posted - 2005.08.11 21:22:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Eris Discordia
You are not allowed to post exact GM replies.
and.....i would im about to be removed:
"There are no bugs in the game code that cause computers to crash in
general or this wouldnŠt be extremely rare as it is."
--GM Guard
want more? go to eve-i
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qrac
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Posted - 2005.08.11 22:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dsanta2345
Originally by: Eris Discordia
You are not allowed to post exact GM replies.
and.....i would im about to be removed:
"There are no bugs in the game code that cause computers to crash in
general or this wouldnŠt be extremely rare as it is."
--GM Guard
want more? go to eve-i
do u have a eris discordia fetish? 
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.08.11 22:27:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Steppa
removed
So to CCP, this didn't happen because their logs are insufficient to track an event caused by the mechanics of the game. What does that say about their methodology when it comes to bug tracking and such?
Eve is among my favorite recreational past-times. The way this is going down, however, is seriously shaking my desire to invest any more time.
It is not the GM's fault for your lack of understanding Client Server Applications. EVE might be a game but it, like any mainstream MMOG, is a sophisticated front end to a database. Your internet connection is the transportation to its connection layer. Sometimes something between point a and point b goes wrong and bug x,y,z occur OR something that looks like a bug. Screenshots aren't going to help them fix a bug. I can doctor photoshop to resemble a bug, not accusing you but buyer beware! What more do you want the GM to do? Atleast he took the time to search the server logs.
jide's oBject eXplorer
The Nest
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Pihls
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Posted - 2005.08.11 23:01:00 -
[27]
well this happend to me once in a while and its a bug.
O thats right remember that Labslot bug /rent bug
you first paid 15-30m for a damm labslot + the darn rent then put in a bpo
and poff you dont have a labslot anymore
petition response was -we dont have a software too track those things.
well that time I was ****ed and reply make sure getting a tool then :|
think at that time I ended my subs too "water my flowers and so"
I feel with you Steppa
Im no newbie it's a glith in code
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Ronin Woman
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Posted - 2005.08.11 23:04:00 -
[28]
I can understand that you are upset.
Beyond that your entire post is seriously lame. I don't want your stuff! Just leave.
It's just my 0.002 Isk worth & I feel better.
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.08.11 23:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shai Faetal
server <-> lag
u might wanna check ur internet connection.
try ping plotter and ping the eve server :o. awhile ago ccp had some kind of experiment with ping plotter to find out where they where losing packets going out of the servers in londen?.
afaik its not an exploit its not a bug. it's just lag. if this happend during patch day or after it :D with u and the rest of eve ccp would re-imburse but in this case whatever ur client tells u it just wrong.
if u initiated a warp command ur client followed it but due to "net faillure" on ur side the data might not have been sent and on the server u never inititaed a warp :) cool huh
oh and if u know u are having lag problems even if it is 1vs1 or just 1 turret firing try.
CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+T - turn off all turret effects
both not just handy in fleet battles
CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+E - turn off all special effects
this happend to me just once, way in castor days, i got jumped by 2 bs and then my screen went "grey".
after being told by the gm that they would give me my ship back, i went and serached for the problem at home and behold, stupid internet signal was too weak to send/receive data .
ever since then i have been known as the king er... queen of pvp . some'n lie tha!
try it sometime.
http://www.pingplotter.com/
and Good Luck!
it`s not isp lag, it`s client lag and server lag at some points the ship gets displaced to another positionu can run 1 account on the best computer in the world with the fastest connection u could imagine and it would still happen
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2005.08.11 23:13:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Originally by: Steppa
removed
So to CCP, this didn't happen because their logs are insufficient to track an event caused by the mechanics of the game. What does that say about their methodology when it comes to bug tracking and such?
Eve is among my favorite recreational past-times. The way this is going down, however, is seriously shaking my desire to invest any more time.
It is not the GM's fault for your lack of understanding Client Server Applications. EVE might be a game but it, like any mainstream MMOG, is a sophisticated front end to a database. Your internet connection is the transportation to its connection layer. Sometimes something between point a and point b goes wrong and bug x,y,z occur OR something that looks like a bug. Screenshots aren't going to help them fix a bug. I can doctor photoshop to resemble a bug, not accusing you but buyer beware! What more do you want the GM to do? Atleast he took the time to search the server logs.
same as my reply abouve
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