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sableye
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:18:00 -
[1]
I myself have ahead full of them but they stop me having as much fun as I'd like and I know that my choice, but many other people in empire feel the same way, people are scared to fight or goto to low security for risk of permantly underming there char by not having them.
Now personally i do take some risks I flew my thorax out to 4c last night, but all along the way I was just thinking of my implants, this game would be such much better without them also better without clones too as I could fight ina tristan without it being a 9mil isk ride back home.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:22:00 -
[2]
Don't wear such expensive ones. I don't plug anything above +1 in for that very reason.
Taking them out, no. Insuring them, now that would help quite a lot. The issue is how to deal with the influx of ISK into the market from such a thing.
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sableye
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:23:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean
Don't wear such expensive ones. I don't plug anything above +1 in for that very reason.
Taking them out, no. Insuring them, now that would help quite a lot. The issue is how to deal with the influx of ISK into the market from such a thing.
true you can wearc heaper one's but its the point you know your char will be permantly gimped, people are always asking to populat e0.0 and low security for example but there's only one thing keepingt he vast majority away and its implants.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:40:00 -
[4]
I rather like the choice - its another risk vs. reward thing. In this case, 0.0 denizens and runners give up faster character progression.
Folks have suggested an implant removal skill in the past. I have to say that now I see a good reason not to put it in...because folks would just plop them in at night. I could see arguments both ways on that issue.
My point overall is the choice is good. Faster skill progression should come at a cost...and the monetary issue represents a play sacrifice as an inherent dissinsentive. It isn't perfect, but it has a certain ammount of logic to it. Removing them wholesale doesn't.
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Rawne Karrde
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:40:00 -
[5]
don't remove them, increase their availability so they are cheaper. Then people won't care so much about losing them. Too many skills to train to not have them.
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S31Apocalypse
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:40:00 -
[6]
I kinda agree, but what keeps me from from low sec space, are the incredably one sided kills..
getting jumped by 3 or 4 cruisers & a bs while im in a cruiser or frig alone just so they can have a gank fix isnt fun; & is what most people hate..
There are ALOT of people that dont want to be forced to group up with people just to go to the low sec space your own agent sends you to for a cargo run..
but implants should be inshurable or gone or something..
this is just IMO of course..
yea i cant spell for crap, been a LONG HOT day at work
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sableye
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rawne Karrde
don't remove them, increase their availability so they are cheaper. Then people won't care so much about losing them. Too many skills to train to not have them.
actually thismight be viable I remember at onetime them being so cheap I used to sell +3 perceptions at 4 mil each
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blackendveins
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:44:00 -
[8]
DONT FLY WHAT YOU CANT AFFORD TO LOSE LOL.
But seriously, implants should be made rewards for missions like they were before, and +3's should drop in rats. if they were devalued more ppl would risk 0.0.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:46:00 -
[9]
Originally by: sableye
Originally by: Caeden Nicomachean
Don't wear such expensive ones. I don't plug anything above +1 in for that very reason.
Taking them out, no. Insuring them, now that would help quite a lot. The issue is how to deal with the influx of ISK into the market from such a thing.
true you can wearc heaper one's but its the point you know your char will be permantly gimped, people are always asking to populat e0.0 and low security for example but there's only one thing keepingt he vast majority away and its implants.
Gimped? Nahhh, not at all. I don't use implants and I have billions--I feel LIBERATED. No implants here, ever.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Want your POS to make money? Call me up. I've designed POSs that make upwards of 50m a day. |
DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2005.08.14 00:57:00 -
[10]
No implants and no clones? What would be the point of death?
Excuse me but some of us like a game where death means something. If I wanted pointless pvp I'd go play WoW.
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:01:00 -
[11]
Edited by: j0sephine on 14/08/2005 01:01:43
"true you can wearc heaper one's but its the point you know your char will be permantly gimped"
There's very little practical difference between skills at lvl.4 and at lvl.5 ... and you can train all you need to lvl.4 in relatively quick time in not much time at all, without implants or even advanced learning skills. The few lvl.5 skills you're going to need might take longer, but then you don't need many of them.
Don't obsess over your skill points, and consequently over implants ^^ the only thing that can make you "gimped" is lack of trust in your own abilities, not some 2% difference in this or that...
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Rae Mathenge
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:08:00 -
[12]
It's kind of 'ya buys the ticket, ya takes yer chances' thing. You make the choice to use implants and you have to face the fact that you could lose them to honest PvP, childish ganking or territorial spats if you head down to 0.0.
I like the idea of implant insurance, honestly. I think, however, the supply should stay limited. This means there's yet another choice for people to make about what they do with their character/what they make important. I'm sure there are characters who do just fine without implants. It isn't a necessity, it simply makes skill training a little easier.
As an aside, having implants didn't keep me out of 0.0 when I played last year. Not having superior fire power kept me out of 0.0.
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Hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue. - Franžois, duc de La Rochefoucauld |
Trevedian
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:11:00 -
[13]
I have been podded 3 times since the arrival of implants in the game, losing five +3's twice and four +3's, and a +5 the last time I was podded.
It stings and puts a dent in your wallet, but guess what... It does the same for other people as well. So be the one podding and not the one getting podded. I can honestly say I have never worried about losing my implants in PVP.
If you can't afford to lose them then you probably shouldn't have them.
Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:16:00 -
[14]
Well, best way is to treat implants are luxury/entertainment items. Nice to have, nice to wear like accesorise but once lost, oh well..., get a free implant another time then. I also lost severals and I hardly use any. If I do, it is mainly coz I looted it from agents so no harm for me ;p
♥♥♥♥♥
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:18:00 -
[15]
Quote:
There's very little practical difference between skills at lvl.4 and at lvl.5
I disagree. It used to be the case. Now the difference between 4 and 5 is the difference between an Omen and a Zealot. Night and Day.
Implants are a HUGE difference to those without min/maxed characters as well. When talking about Cruiser 5 it can mean as much as 5 days (thank you character manager!).
Implants should be cheap and common again. It promotes more risk taking, helps "equal out" characters that are made with sub-optimal attribute distributions, and would provide a decent isk sink if people were not afraid to lose 1 billion worth of implants to a quick gank.
+1 = 1m
+2 = 5m
+3 = 10m
+4 = 20m
+5 = 40m
Pirate implants costing a one level higher than thier empire equivalents.
Death should be painful enough to be avoided, but not so excruciating that you never ever ever want to risk it.
Personally I wear cheap implants, as pvp carries with it a certainty of podding sooner or later. If you never get podded then you are taking no risks.
Nyxus
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Wendat Huron
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:18:00 -
[16]
Allow people to manufacture them as the skill for this was intended to allow for.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:24:00 -
[17]
"I disagree. It used to be the case. Now the difference between 4 and 5 is the difference between an Omen and a Zealot. Night and Day."
This would fall into the other part of my reply: "The few lvl.5 skills you're going to need might take longer, but then you don't need many of them." ^^
"Implants are a HUGE difference to those without min/maxed characters as well. When talking about Cruiser 5 it can mean as much as 5 days (thank you character manager!)."
It's just 5 days. Over the course of a year this is literally 1% difference... i reckon i lost more training time than that simply not bothering to log in and change skills the very second previous training expired. ^^;;
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blackendveins
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:25:00 -
[18]
all i know is something has to be done, or people will not bother going to go to 0.0 at all because of the risk. Just because you 1337 0.0 pvpers dont feel bad about losing your implants does not mean that the majority of empire dwellers feel the same way.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: blackendveins
all i know is something has to be done, or people will not bother going to go to 0.0 at all because of the risk. Just because you 1337 0.0 pvpers dont feel bad about losing your implants does not mean that the majority of empire dwellers feel the same way.
I like the idear of dropping their prices across the board by upping their drop rate or making them manufacturable.
But don't kid yourself, reducing the price of implants isn't going to open the floodgates to 0.0. Most folks sweating bullets will sweat over their ships, or their modules, or their cargo.
Its a different mindset - its not the being financially able to lose a full rack of +5 implants, its not wearing em at all, as you have observed. Its flying throwaway ships if need be. Etc.
Pulling a true exodus to 0.0 will mean a developed, accessible economy. Which means more accesible stations with active markets. Miners have an impetus to be there, traders don't unless they negotiate contracts - which is laborious.
Again, agree about dropping prices of implants - but it isn't the sentinel at the gates.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:42:00 -
[20]
Edited by: j0sephine on 14/08/2005 01:44:02
"all i know is something has to be done, or people will not bother going to go to 0.0 at all because of the risk. Just because you 1337 0.0 pvpers dont feel bad about losing your implants does not mean that the majority of empire dwellers feel the same way."
I don't have implants, thank you... was born this way. :s
(i have some hardwiring stuff but hey, if it goes, then it goes. won't cry over it)
And don't kid yourself; possibility of losing implants is just convenient excuse to not dabble with risk. If implants were made free overnight, the next thing people would cite as reason to avoid 0.0 would be "i might lose my ship and it costed me isk" ... "i might lose my modules and they costed me isk" ... "i might lose my clone and it'll cost me isk" ... "a pirate might ransom me and i'll loose isk" ... or finally "the gate rats look at me funny and touch their e-peens while i jump through" ¼¼;;
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sableye
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 14/08/2005 01:44:02
"all i know is something has to be done, or people will not bother going to go to 0.0 at all because of the risk. Just because you 1337 0.0 pvpers dont feel bad about losing your implants does not mean that the majority of empire dwellers feel the same way."
I don't have implants, thank you... was born this way. :s
(i have some hardwiring stuff but hey, if it goes, then it goes. won't cry over it)
And don't kid yourself; possibility of losing implants is just convenient excuse to not dabble with risk. If implants were made free overnight, the next thing people would cite as reason to avoid 0.0 would be "i might lose my ship and it costed me isk" ... "i might lose my modules and they costed me isk" ... "i might lose my clone and it'll cost me isk" ... "a pirate might ransom me and i'll loose isk" ... or finally "the gate rats look at me funny and touch their e-peens while i jump through" ¼¼;;
I said in my oribal post clones should be free too,, this way people will only risk whet they can afford, take me for example currently 8 mil for a clone thats stupid. you won't catch me flying a tech 1 frig into battle because its not worth the pod risk even without implants, only way you'll ever get ablanced fleet is to give people a reason to lose what they are willingt o risk, many won't risk much but many will risk tech 1 cruisers ect.
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Dakath
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:53:00 -
[22]
Training times are tooooooo looooooong.
I have all the advanced learning skills up to level 5 and training times are still tooooooo loooooooong.
If training times were shortened by half most folks wouldn't feel a need for implants.
Alternatively, implants could be made removeable. That is they could be taken out and not self-destruct. Leave them at home and go check out 0.0.
BTW. It's not so much the implants that keep people out of 0.0, it's the gate gank. No sense in going someplace just to be instantly killed without even a chance of fighting back or escaping.
1000 baby bunnies were slow-roasted alive to create this signature line.
We Hate Bunny |
MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:59:00 -
[23]
Implants are and were always supposed to be a luxury. Please stop using them as an easy excuse for your (in-game cowardice) reluctance to participate in Ship 'PvP' Combat 
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:02:00 -
[24]
If you dont want to lose them dont plug them.
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There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Tony Fats
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:03:00 -
[25]
You think not having implants is gimped, but the fact that you actually HAVE +3 implants is what is making your character gimped by making you scared to play the game.
If I happen to find an implant, and if the prices are crummy, I just stick it in my head. If I can get good price for it, I sell.
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Caeden Nicomachean
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:04:00 -
[26]
Quote:
I said in my oribal post clones should be free too,, this way people will only risk whet they can afford, take me for example currently 8 mil for a clone thats stupid. you won't catch me flying a tech 1 frig into battle because its not worth the pod risk even without implants, only way you'll ever get ablanced fleet is to give people a reason to lose what they are willingt o risk, many won't risk much but many will risk tech 1 cruisers ect.
Take implants off the table, the clone is still too cost prohibitive to you and others. Why, I don't know - at 20 million skill points if you can't earn 8 million in a negligable ammount of time, time to rethink things.
Shift the ISK to your modules/ship away from your clone and implants, still folks would have reasons.
Quote:
BTW. It's not so much the implants that keep people out of 0.0, it's the gate gank. No sense in going someplace just to be instantly killed without even a chance of fighting back or escaping.
Such as these.
As I said, the deal is that there isn't fertile ground for traders in 0.0. Traders create buy orders. They give miners a way to focus on their core competencies, and can create regional markets overnight. Give traders a stronger base, the rest will follow. Gatecamps are the risk, higher profits the reward.
Its what many of us do now, we just have to establish relationships directly with corporations...having the mechanics in game (more stations and whatnot) to be able to do this without the hassle of personal negotiations would provide the petri dish needed.
But there will *always* be folks that will find reasons to avoid risk.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dakath
Alternatively, implants could be made removeable. That is they could be taken out and not self-destruct. Leave them at home and go check out 0.0.
Pls, pls no.
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There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:05:00 -
[28]
no, no no no no no ... if you feel that you have a problem with the implants then remove them, don't force your problem on everyone else!!!!
Now I have gotten my implants removed, (Thank you Mafia) and I feel free, very very free.
Yes I am what you can call a carebear I do alot of mining, producing and rathunting/mission running.
I still travel to low sec from time to time, I don't travel to 0.0 much why ??? because of senseless ganking no point going where I know I will loose.
Infact today my friend got blown by a player, he was not even a pirate, he never tried to ransom and just hoped that his industrial was filled with expensive loot wich it was not... one reason he don't travel to low sec with expensive equipment.
This player was nothing more than a killer, stupid killer because if he had ransomed he would atleast have made some isk on it, even worse if he had let my friend alone he could actually have found ME... with my expensive miningbarge!!!!
But he serves as a example for WHY people don't exodus into low sec or 0.0... it is not the implants.
Once again let me remind you that don't force your lack of will to remove those implants to make it so CCP removes everyones implants.
if you have problem removing your implants, travel through Egghelende a couple of times a day and you might get lucky and be set free.
----------------------------------------------
"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things."
1 cor. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:06:00 -
[29]
"I said in my oribal post clones should be free too,, this way people will only risk whet they can afford, take me for example currently 8 mil for a clone thats stupid. you won't catch me flying a tech 1 frig into battle because its not worth the pod risk even without implants, only way you'll ever get ablanced fleet is to give people a reason to lose what they are willingt o risk, many won't risk much but many will risk tech 1 cruisers ect"
I don't understand this; if the possibility of losing 8 mil for clone is making you sweat, what makes you expect people would risk tech.1 cruisers etc which can easily break that price mark when you include the cost of modules?
The cost of ship would simply become another 'official' reason to avoid 0.0 ... what then, we make ships and modules free, too..?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.08.14 02:10:00 -
[30]
This thread is just so typical and boring...
"I don't like X and Y, so the vast majority of players doesn't like them either! CCP plz patch some brainz into my head."
Look. Just cause you happen to believe that implants or whatever are holding people back doesn't mean the vast majority does. The vast majority doesn't give a ****!
Mai's Idealog |
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