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S31Apocalypse	Posted - 2005.08.14 02:59:00 - [31] lots of people are never going to go to 0.0 because 9.9 out of 10 kills are by one sided killers or a gang of them that pod you.. To even want players to risk it is a stupid thought, would you go down an ally when you know 3 to 10 people twice your size & better armed want to murder you for nothing.. No You Would Not.. Thats the whole issue, & Yes i hear if you cant afford to lose it dont fly it & thats fine; but wanting people to go there just so you can say that when they get murderd doesnt make them want to go back.. We all know people just dont go there, because its the cheapest way out & not worth the risk..
Miri Tirzan	Posted - 2005.08.14 03:02:00 - [32] Originally by: DigitalCommunist No implants and no clones? What would be the point of death? Excuse me but some of us like a game where death means something. If I wanted pointless pvp I'd go play WoW. Oh I hate to say this, but Disco, I have to agree with you on this one. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Ardor	Posted - 2005.08.14 03:06:00 - [33] Implants, ships (even with insurance), modules, cargo... Everything has a cost. I have a good idea: when someone kills us let us return as ghosts and use interbus to return to our destroyed ships which reappears on our return with all modules fitted. This would encourage more pvp.
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.08.14 03:11:00 - [34] "lots of people are never going to go to 0.0 because 9.9 out of 10 kills are by one sided killers or a gang of them that pod you.." I hear after they pod you they suck out all the blood and make small goat sacrifice, too... But more seriously, check a map sometimes how much of 0.0 space is actually, physically occupied. You can move through dozen of systems without running into single soul.... not that difficult to operate there. With people selling sets of insta-bookmarks for whole regions for couple of millions, and with more entrance points... moving fast in, out and around there to avoid trouble isn't exactly a big problem, either.
Trevedian	Posted - 2005.08.14 03:29:00 - [35] Originally by: j0sephine "lots of people are never going to go to 0.0 because 9.9 out of 10 kills are by one sided killers or a gang of them that pod you.." I hear after they pod you they suck out all the blood and make small goat sacrifice, too... Let us toast to Orcus "The Goat-King" Master of the Dead. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me
S31Apocalypse	Posted - 2005.08.14 04:21:00 - [36] I get around fine, but its funny to see people whine about empty space & then see some of the same people say stuff like, get a gang, or buy a cheaper ship or learn the game noob.. its just silly.. Im obviously still enjoying the game or i wouldnt be able to post.. All im saying is the community is VERY hipocritical.. You want people in 0.0 just so ther can me even more ganking witch is nothing but a PURE loss of isk to newer players.. more risk then reward.. but yall keep begging for more people to rape.. i wont speak of it anymore..
Sorja	Posted - 2005.08.14 04:27:00 - [37] Originally by: Dakath Training times are tooooooo looooooong. I have all the advanced learning skills up to level 5 and training times are still tooooooo loooooooong. If training times were shortened by half most folks wouldn't feel a need for implants. Exactly. EVE was designed with x monthes for y skills which gave z learning time speed. Now, there are many, many more skills than originally planned but the learning curve remained the same. It has come to a point a newcomer will probably never fly a dreadnought before the EVE servers shut down This benefits those who want to keep an edge over newer players and those who can afford to lose implants or don't need them anymore. But you will still read many posting how it's possible to have fun in T1 frigs (which is true) and there is no difference between a pilot with all skills at 4 and another one with the same skills at 5. Just... lol
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.08.14 04:50:00 - [38] Originally by: S31Apocalypse lots of people are never going to go to 0.0 because 9.9 out of 10 kills are by one sided killers or a gang of them that pod you.. I dont wont to offence anyone but if someone podded in 99% times he\she is dumb or have extremely slow PC. I dont imagine how can anyone be podded SO often.
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.08.14 04:52:00 - [39] Originally by: Miri Tirzan Originally by: DigitalCommunist No implants and no clones? What would be the point of death? Excuse me but some of us like a game where death means something. If I wanted pointless pvp I'd go play WoW. Oh I hate to say this, but Disco, I have to agree with you on this one. wtf.. _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.08.14 04:52:00 - [40] Originally by: DigitalCommunist No implants and no clones? What would be the point of death? Excuse me but some of us like a game where death means something. If I wanted pointless pvp I'd go play WoW. Signed
Face Lifter	Posted - 2005.08.14 04:59:00 - [41] The unfair thing is that people with fast PC and fast internet can avoid getting podded 99% of the time. People with slower PC and/or slower internet will get podded maybe 50% of the time, if not more. So, rich people or lucky people in real life can buy expensive implants without much fear, while others get screwed. I know how important internet speed is because I play the game from different locations on different machines. I really notice the difference in pod escapes.
Kaell Meynn	Posted - 2005.08.14 05:38:00 - [42] I like that the loss of implants hurts, but it is a LARGE part of what is keeping people out of 0.0 and PvP, I know it does for me. My situation is a bit different than most though. I got my implants pre-Exodus, from agents and purchased for very cheap (4M for +3 PER, etc... very low prices), but now to replace what I have in my head would cost me some 150M ISK, so it is in my best interest to just sit in a station and do nothing. :( (Not that is what I do, I got bored of fearing losing them, and now PvP all the time, but the worry is still in the back of my mind). Point of this post? No idea, I think I had a point when I started to post, but shrugs, take from it what you will I suppose.
Dallenn	Posted - 2005.08.14 05:51:00 - [43] The process of removing implants could be the right solution, because this would allow players to change their focus in the game more easily, eg. to go from empire-industrial-miner-builder to 0.0 hauler. However, this process should be 1) rare 2) costly 3) risky to prevent the daily implant removal. Anyway details do not belong here but to the Idea Lab. PC system speed to my knowledge affects pod escapes. In part this could be an implementation issue by CCP, as the kill mail in my understanding needs to be processed by your Eve client before you can escape in the pod. -- Roleplaying in Eve
Einheriar Ulrich	Posted - 2005.08.14 06:54:00 - [44] Dont wear them............. So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar. **Minion Of VOTF**
Harry Voyager	Posted - 2005.08.14 07:05:00 - [45] Just to inject some real numbers here, to fly a HAC one needs 15 ranks of skills at lvl 5, and to fit it decently you do need another 5 ranks of lvl 5 skills, so we're easily talking 20 ranks of lvl 5 skills. With straight 10s for all stats (characters start with 47 stat points base), we're looking at 255 days just to reach HAC. With 13's (base with +3 implants), it takes 196 days, or a saving of 23% or 29 days. With straight 20s (this is assuming all learning and advanced learning to lvl 5) it takes 128 days, or a saving of 50% or about 127 days. With straight 23s (learning maxed and +3 implants) it takes 103 days, saving ~24 days (20%) over straight 20's, which are already saving another 127 days over base. Does this make it a little more clear why people use implants? Harry Voyager
Darkwolf	Posted - 2005.08.14 07:27:00 - [46] Originally by: sableye I myself have ahead full of them but they stop me having as much fun as I'd like and I know that my choice, but many other people in empire feel the same way, people are scared to fight or goto to low security for risk of permantly underming there char by not having them. Translation; I know it's my choice whether to fly with implants or not, and I'm too indecisive to make the decision for myself, so I'd like CCP to make that decision for me. Christ, man. If you think you're not having as much fun as you could be because of your implants, unplug them. You're supposed to be here to have fun. And with clones, you don't have to buy the best clone. Failing to buy a clone means a maximum loss of 5% of the SP (or one level, whichever is less) from your highest skill, iirc. Though, tbh, I've never tried it out (though I am tempted to give it a go on Singularity just to verify that).
Astarte Nosferatu	Posted - 2005.08.14 07:55:00 - [47] OMG I so agree. Remove all penalty of death from this game, and make it so that we can respawn without cost everytime we die!! Or start playing WoW...? ------------------------------------------ Member of the [23] Follower of the Blood Revolution. Sani Sabik.
Astarte Nosferatu	Posted - 2005.08.14 07:59:00 - [48] Originally by: Nyxus Implants should be cheap and common again. It promotes more risk taking, helps "equal out" characters that are made with sub-optimal attribute distributions, and would provide a decent isk sink if people were not afraid to lose 1 billion worth of implants to a quick gank. +1 = 1m +2 = 5m +3 = 10m +4 = 20m +5 = 40m Pirate implants costing a one level higher than thier empire equivalents. No, I don't like fixing the prices of items, bad for the economy and stuff... ------------------------------------------ Member of the [23] Follower of the Blood Revolution. Sani Sabik.
hellwarrior	Posted - 2005.08.14 08:07:00 - [49] Umm no, implants should remain as they are, more risk more gain. 40mil for a +5 ? who wouldn't have a full set?
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.08.14 08:24:00 - [50] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 14/08/2005 08:26:03 Originally by: Sorja Originally by: Dakath Training times are tooooooo looooooong. I have all the advanced learning skills up to level 5 and training times are still tooooooo loooooooong. If training times were shortened by half most folks wouldn't feel a need for implants. Exactly. EVE was designed with x monthes for y skills which gave z learning time speed. Now, there are many, many more skills than originally planned but the learning curve remained the same. It has come to a point a newcomer will probably never fly a dreadnought before the EVE servers shut down This benefits those who want to keep an edge over newer players and those who can afford to lose implants or don't need them anymore. But you will still read many posting how it's possible to have fun in T1 frigs (which is true) and there is no difference between a pilot with all skills at 4 and another one with the same skills at 5. Just... lol Slow learning times encourage specialisation, which is a good thing. With implants though, you have the option of a slight increase in your learning speed, at the cost of some ISK. This introduces an element of risk v reward in the game, something of which we have too little of as things are. In other words, leave things alone. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.08.14 08:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu OMG I so agree. Remove all penalty of death from this game, and make it so that we can respawn without cost everytime we die!! Or start playing WoW...? Yes, please, and rename it too.. How bout Space WoW ?
Astarte Nosferatu	Posted - 2005.08.14 09:06:00 - [52] Originally by: Kerby Lane Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu OMG I so agree. Remove all penalty of death from this game, and make it so that we can respawn without cost everytime we die!! Or start playing WoW...? Yes, please, and rename it too.. How bout Space WoW ? WoW: Bored Edition ------------------------------------------ Member of the [23] Follower of the Blood Revolution. Sani Sabik.
sableye	Posted - 2005.08.14 09:30:00 - [53] Originally by: j0sephine "I said in my oribal post clones should be free too,, this way people will only risk whet they can afford, take me for example currently 8 mil for a clone thats stupid. you won't catch me flying a tech 1 frig into battle because its not worth the pod risk even without implants, only way you'll ever get ablanced fleet is to give people a reason to lose what they are willingt o risk, many won't risk much but many will risk tech 1 cruisers ect" I don't understand this; if the possibility of losing 8 mil for clone is making you sweat, what makes you expect people would risk tech.1 cruisers etc which can easily break that price mark when you include the cost of modules? The cost of ship would simply become another 'official' reason to avoid 0.0 ... what then, we make ships and modules free, too..? cost of cruiser 8 mil or c- cost of clone 8 mil for now soon to be 16 mil all thats starts adding up to alot, 8 mil is easy to replace, 24 mil would'nt be.
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.14 09:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Kerby Lane Originally by: S31Apocalypse lots of people are never going to go to 0.0 because 9.9 out of 10 kills are by one sided killers or a gang of them that pod you.. I dont wont to offence anyone but if someone podded in 99% times he\she is dumb or have extremely slow PC. I dont imagine how can anyone be podded SO often. Slow pc/connection, or just a lame mailbox podding.... The mind boggles.... Implants should have allways been about hardwire model anyhow... the atribute enhancers suck plain and simple. Only use they have are crap agent rewards, peen threads on how many points have ect... While they probaly do stop people from enjoying the game we think they should be enjoying from our point of view... What you have to imagine is that there are a few that play this game just for the total.... Just leave um be sitting in their station with their ubber memory/intel enjoying life... In short.. nothing to see here.. move along.. iv'e allways said it.. most that fit +4-5 don't realy care about insurance or anything else... the mere fact the implants would be removed from their heads for an hour or two would be akin to sacrilidge.. and would probaly result in account cancelation.. or worse another forum whinefest -------- 23 Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front. 'Danton Marcellus'
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.08.14 09:37:00 - [55] Theyre fine tbh. ------------------ [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
sableye	Posted - 2005.08.14 09:37:00 - [56] Edited by: sableye on 14/08/2005 09:37:42 Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu OMG I so agree. Remove all penalty of death from this game, and make it so that we can respawn without cost everytime we die!! Or start playing WoW...? you still lose the cost of your ship and fittings, this would be balanced as then you could risk what youc ould afford to lose, not risking 17 mil mil at base for flying at tech 1 frigate (16 mil clone and 1 mil frigate) the older your character gets the detah penalty just becomes too harsh. There will be new clones soon probably cost 32 mil, then it will cost 33 mil just to risk a crappy tech 1 frigate.
Astarte Nosferatu	Posted - 2005.08.14 09:57:00 - [57] For the record, I have 25mil sp and have +2, +3, +4 and hardwiring implants fitted and still I think the current system is fine. And no, I'm not rich, I don't even have 1bil in assets/cash. ------------------------------------------ Member of the [23] Follower of the Blood Revolution. Sani Sabik.
Del Narveux	Posted - 2005.08.14 10:32:00 - [58] I actually like the idea of making clones free, as pointed out it would encourage people to be a bit more crazy/loose in combat. Clones may not cost much if youre rich, but a lot of people either arent rich or dont have the time to keep up with large isk losses. As to the 'omgwtfbbq 0.0 is teh deathz0r' discussion, its true that going to 0.0 carries a good chance of getting gang banged but the real problem is the chokepoints, and that 6 or 7 dudes with fast-lock gankships can virtually seal a region off (note that sometimes I am one of those dudes, so Im looking at this from both sides of the table) without a lot of tactical effort on their part. Basically, most of 0.0 may be empty but generally you have to pass through an area thats not, and whose inhabitants are just there to kill people on the way to the empty part...and thats where the dead people happen. Obvious solution being make more routes so you dont have to pass through just one system to get into a given region, and pirates have to do a little bit more than just park on a gate for 5 hours to get their kicks (camping is boring anyway). _________________ [SAK] And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
subvert	Posted - 2005.08.14 10:33:00 - [59] Risk vs reward hardly applies when 1 pod kill costs you over 1 billion. I think implants should stay after death, availability increased, and maybe set an expiration on them.
dantes inferno	Posted - 2005.08.14 10:47:00 - [60] ive been playing since beginning of dec 2004, during this time i had a +1 perception implant fitted for 20 mins before i got kileld by a pirate this is the best thing which coulf of happned, as i did not go down the path of filling my clone with implants wich make people afraid of getting poded, if i had filled my head with usless +1-5 implants, yes i would train faster, but i would of been doing nothing with my skill apart from sitting ni 1.0 scared sh** about people killing me. this game is about fun not how many sp you got. i have just over 7 mil, go down into 0.0 and pvp frequently, i occasionaly stay in safe areas to mine/npc and ienjoy the game. now you may choose to have or not have implants thats up to you. but screaming at ccp to remove them takes a important feature of this game..the right to choose what you want. People complain about the cost of death being to high, hence they stay in high sec space having half the fun they could be having..so ask yourself this do you play this gaem to have imaginary ships and isk..or to have fun? yes 0.0 is risky, yes people will kill you there, but what an individual can do is join a corp which is part of or has good standings to an alliance, this gives them access to 0.0 as long as their caerful and watch out for hostiles. a corp could get incontact with an alliance to arrange good standings, some alliances will give you access to their space in exchange for you refining at their stations at a & rate which they keep, and ofc your help in keepuig the space free of hostile entities. In short what keeps people out of 0.0 is not implants, nor gate camps but fear of loosing imaginary money in a game (which if someone has sence they can make more in 0.0 than they would loose) and before any of the spelling and grammer natzis comment on punccuation and spelling is my friend...i know my spelling/grammar is crap..get over it _____

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