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deadmaus
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Posted - 2005.08.15 11:54:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Sable Terrick
To all those people that are whining about not being able to gank PVE'ers solo...I have but one suggestion....not being such useless f*cks that you have to hunt solo because no one else wants to spend any time around you.
*turns Rant button off and waits for the inevitable deaththreats* 
ROFLMAO oh you are beautiful I love that..WCS are used because there are webbers etc. Like everything in EVE there are measures and counter-measures. How the hell can ppl complain about using wcs fgs.
(combat) Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Shipyard, wrecking for 488.1 damage.
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lythos miralbar
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:24:00 -
[62]
Edited by: lythos miralbar on 15/08/2005 12:26:44
my personal opinion..? wcs are for girlies. 
I never use em unless on a traveling frig hauling valuable stuff.
IMHO not using wcs requires more skill than using them. For the plain and simple reason you need to carefully chose your fights everytime. When you comit to a fight you end up comitting 100%.
If you have a few wcs on you dont have to be so carefull. You can almost engage, test the water and if you dont like it bug out.
Personally I think wcs are a substitute for player skill (I'm not saying all players who use them are dumb *** nubs though)
I think scrambling drones is the awnser to wcs. Your not going to use them to gank traveling people as you'll never get your drones on em in time, but if someone engages in pvp with you then you will probably have the chance to get some of them onto them.
Quote:
To all those people that are whining about not being able to gank PVE'ers solo...I have but one suggestion....not being such useless f*cks that you have to hunt solo because no one else wants to spend any time around you.
LMAO. 
Some people PREFER hunting solo. Just ganking people as part of a gang gets awlfully boring after a while. Solo kills are harder to get and personally I find them MUCH more satisfyinig.
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Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:41:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
T2 scramblers?
You seen any of them for sale?
They have been given their stats and should be seeded "soon."
Meanwhile, T2 WCS don't even exist in the database, period.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:48:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Felsin
see the problem with your logic is that its perfect for us stab users. You fit those three damage mods on your ships and then me and my friend come into your 4 man group and kill one of you proud extra low slot users and warp out without taking a loss. You are so sure that stabs only let you run and gimp you that you let the stab users take advantage and it lets us pirates pick you all off one by one without taking high losses at all.
You've not faced a proper combat group if this is the case. In a properly coordinated four on four...one ship is going to die before anybody has a chance to align. Period. Stabs don't do you a whole lot of good in that case.
I'm not saying stabs don't work...if they work for you, terrific. I'll not go so far as a lot of the folks here and call it "lame." If it gets you kills, then sweet action. But in a world where a proper solo gank-geddon can fry a battleship before that battleship can even align...scrambled or not...I simply can't see wasting slots on stabs.
Garreck
Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.08.15 13:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Garreck
You've not faced a proper combat group if this is the case. In a properly coordinated four on four...one ship is going to die before anybody has a chance to align. Period. Stabs don't do you a whole lot of good in that case.
This fantasy of a "proper combat group" is the exact reason why guerilla tactics are so effective. Your fleet sits there with a thumb up their arse, waiting for a "fair fight" against a bunch of gank ships. Push comes to shove, somebody gets baited or lags behind, and gets ganked. Then people complain that "ganks don't count" or smacktalk about "chicken **** wsc stackers" while the gank team runs away with a 1-0 on the scoreboard and a grin on their face.
If you want a fair fight, go play Guild Wars.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.08.15 13:35:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Blind Fear on 15/08/2005 13:36:33
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I really don't mind the 8x WCS Armageddon - it's the inties with WCS that **** me off. I mean, it's almost impossible to get caught in an inty without WCS if you've got 2 brain cells.
Yes. WCS battleships are annoying, but nowhere near as much as a certain alliance which is ostensibly PvP throwing 2 WCS onto every one of their intys.
Oddly enough, I have no fear of engaging in interceptor fights outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 against them, but I'm sure theres got to be no connection there. Originally by: Christopher Scott
Push comes to shove, somebody gets baited or lags behind, and gets ganked.
Sure, if you're fighting incompetent PvPers this will often happen. Of course, if you need large numbers of WCS and hit and run tactics against incompetent PvPers, it says volumes about your own competence in combat.
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Derailing threads with logic since 1992 |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2005.08.15 13:36:00 -
[67]
If you go into combat, and you know you will fight, you should go in to WIN. By fitting warp cores, you really aren't going in to win and destroy the enemy, you go into the fight to get away if the fight goes south. Wrong attitude, it's a defensive attitude not an aggressive attitude.
We never use wcs, we go in to win and destroy all enemy ships. If you feel you need to use wcs, then maybe the problem is somewhere else, like in your tactics or fitting? Besides, wcs will gimp your setup. Imagine a gankageddon with 2 wcs? uh. silly. For me, it's a matter of pride. Your milage may vary.
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2005.08.15 14:12:00 -
[68]
When u got long campaigns Against u WCS are essential as the enemy ainm to cripple u by Inflicting massive losses, By increasing your chance of escape, you reduce those losses inflicted against the corp/alliance thus letting u fight another Day. |
Christopher Scott
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Posted - 2005.08.15 14:29:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Sure, if you're fighting incompetent PvPers this will often happen.
When it's a 40 vs. 40 fleet standoff stuck between two regional timezones, grabbing for more people, it's not a far fetch to think that there will be some "green" pilots inside the fleet.
Quote:
Of course, if you need large numbers of WCS and hit and run tactics against incompetent PvPers, it says volumes about your own competence in combat.
Are you trying to be insightful or a troll? Every alliance in the game uses this tactic from time to time, and uses it effectively. Again, if you want to talk about the "proper" way to fight, go play Guild Wars. In EVE, anything that gets you a kill is fair game.
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Ethan Tomlinson
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Posted - 2005.08.15 14:34:00 -
[70]
wcs take up a slot hardpoint there is no problem with using them simple as that. if u want to kill someone using them there are ways to get around it. called use more scramblers. for every setup there is a way around it. anyone can use them since they take hardly any skills. so what tis the problem. ****in whiners
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:00:00 -
[71]
I think there is a lot of confusion here on *WHY* a lot of pvper's hate wcs. You have to differentiate between pvpers and gankers.
If someone wants to use 8 stabbies on a travel setup no one cares. I myself have put 8 stabbies on a geddon I bought to try to get home safely to refit. That's fine. No one cares.
The problem is that gankers are smart. Get 3-5 BS loaded with 5 stabbies sitting at long range outside a station. Anything that undocks gets pwned. Anything gets close to them and they warp away. And its incredibly frustrating when you FINALLY sneak 3 ceptors to warp in on top of them and with 4 points of scramble they....<poof> warp off.
You can't catch them. They just wait for a the timer to run out and log. When the system quiets, they log back on rinse and repeat. The stabbies don't effect their combat efficiency. And you can't catch ONE of them without 4+ tacklers. How do you catch someone with 5 stabbies aligned and up to speed? Answer: You can't, unless the ganker is stupid.
Have you ever tried fighting a small group with ALL of the enemy have 5+ stabbies? I have, it sucks. Maybe thier damage isn't optimized, but its still so effective it doesnt matter. And unless you bring MASSIVE overkill fleets you cant kill them before they warp. Bumping is the ONLY way you have a chance to stop them. And fights with 5 to 1 odds are just lame. I dont want to blob, I want a good fight.
No one wants to mess with travel setups. Even 1 or 2 stabs are fine. Anyone who is a pvper hates combat capable ships of 4+ stabbies. This is what has to change.
Travel (relatively) safely, or fight. No more combat with 5 Stabbies.
Nyxus
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Bruchpilot
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:26:00 -
[72]
I fitted WCS once in a fight (actually I fitted 2) and thats cause I knew what we were up against and cause they were camping the station we were sitting in with 1:2 odds. The WCS saved my ass.
Usually I don't fit WCS and engage in a 1vs2/3 (when I think I got a chance to kill something I'll do it). I'm not affraid of dieing. If you're loosing a fight you should pay with your ship and not cowardly warp off.
Ofcourse, when you're up against great numbers constandly and don't have the choice to pick your fights I have no problems with WCS.
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Sky Hunter
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:49:00 -
[73]
Originally by: TuRtLe HeAd
When u got long campaigns Against u WCS are essential as the enemy ainm to cripple u by Inflicting massive losses, By increasing your chance of escape, you reduce those losses inflicted against the corp/alliance thus letting u fight another Day.
If you go solo long range hit & run op, then you definatly will go in smaller ship then BS/BC. Means on ship like HAC/Cruiser you dont need WCS, since in most cases you should be able to warp out after shooting down your target.
-=-
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Bruchpilot
I fitted WCS once in a fight (actually I fitted 2) and thats cause I knew what we were up against and cause they were camping the station we were sitting in with 1:2 odds. The WCS saved my ass.
Usually I don't fit WCS and engage in a 1vs2/3 (when I think I got a chance to kill something I'll do it). I'm not affraid of dieing. If you're loosing a fight you should pay with your ship and not cowardly warp off.
Ofcourse, when you're up against great numbers constandly and don't have the choice to pick your fights I have no problems with WCS.
/agree
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Sable Terrick
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:25:00 -
[75]
To the person that said that Solo kills are much more satisfying and more of a challenge..I am sure it is more satisfying...but heres a question....those solo kills that you are going for....are they ships that stand a decent chance of defending themselves or are they haulers/miners/infants. If you are patrolling your alliances space and dealing with combat capable intruders solo....then hats off to you. If your attacking someone that has little to no chance of defending yourself...then perhaps you can tell me why the thought of strangling a puppy is so satisfying to you. because that is essentially what you are doing....taking something that is of no threat to you and killing it out of hand.
Someone else said it best a few posts ago....that there is a difference between gankers and pvp'ers...and that i completely agree with...i have found that gankers are usually the ones that **** and moan and complain about the people having enough WCS to get away from a close range gate gank or someone jumping into a .4 belt to ambush a miner. From what I have seen...most of the pvp'ers tend to live in 0.0 and dont spend time hunting along the .4 systems unless it borders their territory.
So my earlier comment about people whining they couldnt kill their target solo is pretty much directed at the people that hang around the .4 systems and jump people minding their own business for the most part.
So any of you that PVP against other capable targets...you can pretty much ignore any of the ranting i have done.That is a respectable thing...especially if you are doing it without the WCS's that you claim are so horrible.(but most kill mails i have seen where the person came into our space had a WCS or two that were destroyed....makes ya wonder) And for those Gankers too afraid or too obnoxious to hunt people that know what they are doing instead of strangling puppys....well....you know who you are...and im pretty sure you know what i think of you
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.08.15 16:49:00 -
[76]
We really just need more people in EVE. Quit your complaining about WCS and go recruit some folks into EVE. The problem is that at a given time there are about 6k people on... atleast 60% in empire, 30% distrubuted among the in alliance space, and the rest are spread out trying to find a way into alliance space without getting killed or trying to kill. Get more people into the game to even the numbers of targets and maybe you will get some fighters will bawlz.
jide's oBject eXplorer
The Nest
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:11:00 -
[77]
Warp scrambling and the stabs just work wrong imo, thats why they are so annoying.
I was thinking about a different way to make it work and came to this, what if scramblers would work by disrupting the "warp field" and thereby making the field collapse if the attack was strong enough(which it would be most of the time, make it like EW(ECM/ECCM)). When succesfull the field collapses and needs x amount of time to restart, the stabs would help reduce this time as well as make it just a little bit harder to scramble the ship from the start, basicly make it different in that scrambling is 9 times out of 10 succesfull but coil restart can be shortened by stabilizers.
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The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Hellraiza666
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:12:00 -
[78]
imo warp core stabs shouldnt be usable in combat
if u want to fight u should fight, but fighting AND having a chance to run if in danger is stupid ,if u want to fight and then u lose, then u should pay the price and lose ur ship, not warp out on structure or if outnumbered....
theres no excuses 
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In War There Are No Runners Up...
Image by Denrace |
Sable Terrick
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:17:00 -
[79]
and there is the Idea put exactly....IF you want to fight. I know that this may come as a bit of a shock Hellraiza.....but not everyone likes pvp'ing....even in a game like eve which seems to try to make sure people do it.
Not everyone sets out with the thought "I want to fight other players"
Some just say "I want to hunt rats...or I want to mine....or I want to move stuff around and make cash doing it...not I want to lose my ship and all the stuff on it just because someone has a different view of what the game is about and I was unlucky enough to run into him"
I know it is just a game....but I really do wonder how many of those mouthy B*stards talking smack about people would have the guts to do it face to face. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:23:00 -
[80]
he who runs and gets away, lives to run another day
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.08.15 17:33:00 -
[81]
I think its about time we get +3 WCS's in (I'd personally like +4's but my peers say that it might be a bit too much). Imagine that a stiletto with its 4 medslots can fit 3 scramblers and an MWD and I have no way to escape a single frigate with my raven eventhough I always fit 5 WCS's!
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luisa illiat
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:16:00 -
[82]
Originally by: TWD
The people that know how to do PvP combat don't need WCS.
The people that know how to pvp loose ships ? *snickers*
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Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:18:00 -
[83]
To be honest, the choice depends on the player.
Non-WCS users fight to win.
WCS users fight to avoid losing.
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:40:00 -
[84]
give all races one inty with 4 meds :/
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:49:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sable Terrick
and there is the Idea put exactly....IF you want to fight. I know that this may come as a bit of a shock Hellraiza.....but not everyone likes pvp'ing....even in a game like eve which seems to try to make sure people do it.
Not everyone sets out with the thought "I want to fight other players"
Some just say "I want to hunt rats...or I want to mine....or I want to move stuff around and make cash doing it...not I want to lose my ship and all the stuff on it just because someone has a different view of what the game is about and I was unlucky enough to run into him"
Second time replying to this thread. The issue here isn't miners and industrialists using WCS, or people moving supplies around. That is a suitable and good purpose for warp core stabilizers.
The issue is ships that can merrily gank all they like, but when opposition arises, escape 99.9% of the time.
Don't be a bad loser | DPS Spreadsheet |
Summersnow
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:16:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth
Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 15/08/2005 18:52:03
Originally by: Sable Terrick
and there is the Idea put exactly....IF you want to fight. I know that this may come as a bit of a shock Hellraiza.....but not everyone likes pvp'ing....even in a game like eve which seems to try to make sure people do it.
Not everyone sets out with the thought "I want to fight other players"
Some just say "I want to hunt rats...or I want to mine....or I want to move stuff around and make cash doing it...not I want to lose my ship and all the stuff on it just because someone has a different view of what the game is about and I was unlucky enough to run into him"
Second time replying to this thread on this point. The issue here isn't miners and industrialists using WCS, or people moving supplies around. That is a suitable and good purpose for warp core stabilizers.
Problem is that the issue is miners, industrialists and people just trying to move supplies around cause the narrow minded ignorants want WCS removed or nurfed in ways that make them unusable by the people that need them the most.
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Profess0r Mansechs0r
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:27:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Elve Sorrow
To be honest, the choice depends on the player.
Non-WCS users fight to win.
WCS users fight to avoid losing.
But see, heres the thing. What if the wcs user can kill the non-wcs user, in equalish ships. Theres no point to fit 2x damage mods when you can already kill someone without those 2x damage mods.
Private lessons? |
BlackDog Rackh'am
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:47:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Sky Hunter
Anything smaller then BS or BC can use hit & run even without WCS. For example with Cold War, cruiser type ships got +10% agility and speed boost as far as i heard. I dont know if it affects HAC class ships
Well,it does...i got a vagabond just before the patch and i was doing slighlty more than 800m/sec with an AB.After the patch and without any new navigation skills trained up,i did a little more than 900m/sec with the same setup. It's one of the reasons HAC's are so popular lately,enough firepower to take on BS's and a decent chance of escaping their friends thanks to damage resistances and mobility.
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General Killah
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:52:00 -
[89]
Just checked this thread, it's gotten big.
NO ONE has addressed the issue, however I have seen a lot of "oh we can't catch them so they should be nerfed." I agree that taking more than 2 or 3 WCS into combat with you is bull****. Personally I only use them on my battleships, nothing smaller.
So what's wrong with 2 WCS in combat? We go into fights and are outnumbered about 90% of the time. Often(60% of the time) we don't even need the stabs. People say it gimps your setup? That's why my 5 guys with 2 WCS each go against your 6 with no WCS, and still win? Don't tell me it gimps my setup, that wasn't the question.
They are a legit tactic(although anything over 2 is kinda lame) and the bottom line is that people are only mad because they die without killing someone. It's as simple as that.
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(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.15 20:30:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Moghydin
Edited by: Moghydin on 15/08/2005 08:35:20
Yesterday I lost ship and I was using a WCS (only 1). It was intended for warping out of NPC spawnes that I couldn't handle. That case teached me a lesson. Next time I'll go into 0.0 (if I ever go there again without a fleet escort), I'll have nano-fibers and no less than 8 WCS. Those who talk about fighting, I'd like to know your tactic when you are attacked by 3 ravens, jammed and scrambled. Interesting, how you can win this one? So, leave the WCS as they are atm. That's the only defence you can have against trigger happy ppl who shoot down anything that moves.
I didn't check the stats of the griefers, but at least 1 of them is in game since 2003, and 2 others are not far behind I think. My char is in game for 4 months. So congrats to them for hunting down another n00b. I hope you feel really big and strong now. But it looks like that's the nature of the game. They pay to have fun and I pay, so they could have fun. Fair enough?
Boo, they shot me, they must be griefers.
Theres a whole thread full of great advice on how to survive alone in 0.0
Did you ever consider *gasp* pinning local open so you can see people enter. (Assume everyone is hostile unless you know them)
I get so ******* angry at your posts. Boo hiss, almost 90% of the modules in this game are designed to help you kill other players. When used as intended they are "griefing"
You have no organisation and no clue and you whine when you get shot. Christ, an average system is 50 AU across. Thats a lot of space to hide in but you cant manage that.
Get a clue or stay out of 0.0
GL in fitting 8 wcs and nanos too btw.
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