Except that it would open the biggest pandora's box of reimbursement demands the game, or probably any online game has ever seen. You sir, are blinder than an unborn mole, if you cannot see that. From a TECHNICAL standpoint, reimbursing skillpoints, where no skills were removed from the game, would be highly destructive.

Whether or not you use the skills you have trained out of your free will doesn't make a cause for reimbursement. It's your own personal choice not to mine even after training for a mining ship.

I did not write this screaming part. It's from here. Terms of service.

And that's why it needs some Kittens and Squirrels !

Not really.

Again, those pilots ALREADY gained benefits from having those skills trained to use a ship *NOW* before the requirements are lowered. "Value obtained" style...

If they didn't benefit from it, they shouldn't have trained it to begin with. Their poor decision-making skills are not grounds for compensation.

Nobody forced them to train for an Orca.

GǪand if they did, they benefited from it, so there's no reason for them to ask for reimbursement.

Still gives them the skills and bonuses.

I have a number of skills that I dont use. Doesnt mean they are useless however because they still work.

We only get a reimbusment if the skills and the bonuses they give are removed.

Because the progression makes more sense this way. People who have trained the skill still benefit from it.

Then CCP would have to reimburse every single person that was ever affected by a non-removed skill change that has ever happened ever. Maybe CCP should reimburse all the skills I've had to train to fly supers that don't actually benefit me... No.

Thats completely different to what I mean. Ok, 'license to fly an Orca' requirements may have changed, in this case. But what about all the other things that change every patch? Ships get module layouts changed *poof* magic. Etc.

You want skillpoints reimbursed for a changed skill, when skills have been changed in the past with no reimbursment. It's not a seperate issue at all, you're just ignoring the facts.

Game-breaking wishes are not really worth respecting.

I want do delete this thread and ban large numbers of specified idiot shiptosters from the forums permanently. Should CCP respect my wish? Of course not.

Sure it is.
I'd be finally happy if I were given a trlilion ISK every time I logged in. It would still break the game, no matter how happy it made me.

At the point where skills are effectively removed from the game because GÇ£being happy not to have themGÇ¥ is enough reason to have the SP reimbursed. You're asking for SP remapping, which is about the most destructive thing that could ever happen.

Logic. Go learn some.

No. Hypocrisy much?

GǪapart from the economy, which is not designed for people getting free money.

No, we're talking about the simple principle that skills should not be reimbursed just because people don't want them any more for whatever reason, because that would break things. Instead, you train the skills you want to train and you get the benefits you want to get. Only if those benefits are outright removed do you get the SP back, because only then does the time become wasted.

So the question remains: why should you be reimbursed for something you haven't lost and for something that hasn't changed?

Nope.

The fact that we are.

So the question remains: why should you be reimbursed for something you haven't lost and for something that hasn't changed?

There's actually a compromise to make here that will satisfy everybody.

Allow those people who trained Mining Barge V for the Orca and who no longer want the skill to delete the SP from their characters.

Actually its a group of players asking to be treated differently from everyone else who has been in this situation for no good reason other than 'I dont want this skill I trained any more'. Its just like those people who whined about the updated bounty system simply because they didnt want to have one put on them, it would be very amusing if it wasnt so utterly utterly pathetic.

Respect never even enters the equasion, the simple fact is you and the others pushing for this exception are expecting special treatment when CCP has already pointed out repeatedly why you wont be getting that.

Not really no, doesnt stop me taking pleasure from watching idiots tilt at windmills.

Asking for favoritism and asking for respect are two entirely different things.

Asking to receive a special benefit for no other reason than to make you happy is asking for favoritism.

but my solution lets ccp spend their time on more important things.

unsurprisingly, there are more important things than you, or the people crying about the skill changes.

This appeals to everybody's interests and frankly I think you all should be just a little bit more thankful for my intervention today.

Is this thread still on topic ?

10 pages of whine?

All the current skills equired to fly an Orca are relevant and do provide benefis. Just because some players do not use all of those benefits is not a case for reimbursement. Industry 5 reduces manufacuring time, Science 4 allows for Nanite Control to be trained (which is handy if you use combat boosters), Mining Barges 5 is highly useful if you plan to mine and allows for Exhumers to be trained. If all you wanted the Orca for was to haul stuff around, then you should have trained for a freighter.

Nope, but it doesn't change the fact that the skills needed to get into an Orca now, are not useful. I like the idea that if I want to fly a mining barge, then I can.

it's 9:30pm on a saturday night and i'm badposting on the eve forums. i couldn't feel worse if i tried.

Be nice. I could let me get killed on purpose, all day long, every few minutes. ^_^

Tbh, i thought of doing it just to **** everybody off and remind them all i'm here...
... but i guess that's not actually necessary.


Btw, will we get forum banned for this ? I wouldn't want that to happen, tbh.


edit:
brb smoke. stay with me, dave !

of course i did, that's why trolling is my favourite pass time.

CCP is saying the same things we've been saying for this thread (and your identical one). We just don't have to be polite about it, because you're not our customers.


Done crying over a milk sale yet?

RubyPorto parroting CCP.

How is that question relevant? Nothing like that is happening and has never happend. If you still insist on knowing, I'd be pretty angry about it, since it seems entirely unnecessary and pointless. If you just wanted to make the point, that the "skill is still useful for something so no refunds" -argument doesn't seem sufficient in every possible theoretical case, I agree with you. It is in the actual cases though, so i'm not sure what you hope to gain by pointing it out.

I dunno.... saying "CCP parrot" just sounds like a butthurt way of saying RubyPorto is "quoting the primary authoritative source of the issue". So every time you call him a parrot, all you're really doing is acknowledging that he's right in a vindictive way.

It takes more than a player saying "But I'll never use this skill, pinkie-swear!" to justify reimbursement.

When I started playing EVE, ...

If a million people claim that 2+2=5 and a trained parrot has been taught to say 2+2=4, then a million people aren't right because there's a million of them, they're just dumber than a trained parrot.

Better to be a parrot than a whining baby.

So unsub and quit, that would be entirely your choice. There are plenty of games I don't like and don't play, but at the end of the day the devs still make the final decisions. Sure, the players should certainly be listened to, but if they left it up to the players, there would be little to no cohesion or consistency in development. Now, we can have a mature discussion, or we can accuse each other of patronisation and lack of personal attorney, but that seems tremendously redundant and the fact is, as long as a skill is useful for something, it's useful. Even if it's something you don't use it for, that's entirely beside the point. The milk analogy is perfect, but I've got a simpler one.

If you can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen.

I'd like a reimbursement for all my science and industry skills but that's because I came to the conclusion that it's just boring, sadly this was only after 4.5mil in both.

As for ship skills, the more skills you have the better, so, erm... hush now child.

The difference is that the mathematicians actually have a veritable expertise in the subject.

I wonder if anybody ever actually learned what a "discussion" is.

This thread, like every other thread, is just "throwing opinions at each other". People like you have no chance in hell
of ever learning anything valueable, because the only thing you can do is compare information from others with the
information others give you and if it doesn't fit into your narrow circle of logic, it gets dismissed as wrong or stupid.

You guys are not only worse than politicians, you are a the very sheep of every politican out there.

And you don't even feel ashamed about that. You are just robots. Mindless, stupid robots who can only do the same
thing over and over, with no chance of ever broadening your horizon.

And you believe you are somehow better or superior ?

there are no trolls. ruby and malcanis are beating down whitehound, ...

Honestly.... if you were a real threat, you wouldn't have been beaten down so easily.

No, that was never the question...

You were.
And I'm asking you: why on earth anyone should be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?

Incorrect.

"I didn't ask you" = "I know you're right and that's why you should shut up"

Dude, when you post on a public forum, you post it for everyone that has access. That includes Tippia. So get over yourself and answer the question, or continue to dodge it and make excuses for having no answer. Your call.

We know who you were replying to.
That doesn't mean we can't respond to what you said. If you really think that then you're being absurd.
You have no place posting on a public forum if you can't take criticism. You can't pick and choose who gets to reply to you and who doesn't.

There's no point in discussing the whole matter, factually.
Except for you, of course, because you believe expressing your opinion is somehow relevant to a greater good.

Oh btw ... why should something be reimbursed, when there is nothing lost ?

WTF are you talking about? They're not doing anything of the sort.

He seems to be in fear of responding to Tippia directly.

Maybe i did.
Could you please point out where you have directly responded to the question Tippia asked ?

While "I wasn't talking to you" is a response, it was not an answer to Tippia's question. You know what he means.

Sure you did. You just didn't answer the question: why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?

Rhetoric: a politician's best friend. Also, coincidentally, a salesperson's best friend.

"Undo the burden"
What burden?
How?

GǪI think he was rather hurt by discovering that the distinction between passive regeneration and active regeneration was not a matter of UI but of how HP is (re)created. He's been in a bit of a mood ever since.

I haven't read every post you've made in this thread, no. If you could direct me to the one that clarifies what you mean here, that would be helpful.

Jesus, are you always this melodramatic?

Tippia, i agree with you ... quite in a "mood".
And i like how he is projecting *his* problems onto you now.
Somebody needs a wakeup call.

comedy value

I can't tell if Whitehound is stupid or a troll.

Nowhere have they said that they're giving people Mining Barge 5.

Of course they aren't. In fact, they can't.
Why would (and how could) they give people something they already have?

So why did you think that they were?

"Look at how I stand above you but still have the courage to join you in your mess"

Why on earth should anyone be reimbursed when they haven't lost anything?

GǪwhich of course is untrue. Their decisions have yielded, and will still yield, exactly the same result as they always did.

For people who don't mine, and are getting pissy about this -- why'd you choose to learn how to fly a mining support vessel?

GǪexcept, of course, that bad decisions are not a valid reason for reimbursement. You made the error; you live with it. In fact, suffering from your bad decisions is fully intentional. So no, what you get is quite relevant GÇö ...

Obviously, the description must be wrong, ...

I WANTED TO TRAIN THE ORCA
CCP SOUNDWAVE HELD ME AT GUNPOINT AND FORCED ME TO TRAIN MINING BARGE 5
THEN HE TIED ME UP IN CCP HEADQUARTERS BASEMENT AND FORCED ME TO WATCH BRIDEZILLA RERUNS WHILE IT COMPLETED

I got all of it, and I questioned it.

If the only reason I trained BS to 5 was to fly capital ships, should I have those SPs reimbursed?

The only reason I drove to the servo* was for a bottle of milk. They didn't have any in stock. Should they now pay for the fuel I wasted?

If I was allowed to answer this for myself ...

All that aside, why are we still having to talk about this?

Yep. And like I said, if I'm honest, the answer is no. This would require me to be... wait for it... honest. The problem is, we aren't seeing honesty, we're seeing rhetoric and excuses, when sometimes the only honest answer is "**** happens, get over it and get used to it."

So you agree, then GÇö for the third time GÇö that there is no grounds for reimbursement.
Well, I suppose that settles that, then.

Thank you for finally seeing things our way even if it had to be dragged out of you.
Had it not been easier to just say that to begin with?

Every single post where you've dodged a question or told someone you weren't talking to them...

Whitehound -- pissed that some people in the future will have it easier to train for a support vessel than he did. (or something)

Why would I be hurt by you finally coming over to my side?

@Whitehound:
The reason I, and probably others, think you're dishonest is found in your posts.

Your style of argumentative rhetoric reminds me of the same by William Lane Craig. Not sure if you've heard of him, but I'm sure anyone that is familiar would agree. If not.... oh well, I'm outta here now anyway.

So why do think I am anything but happy to see you finally agree?

No. I wasn't replying to you. ...

Of course not. But why do think I am anything but happy to see you finally agree?

I would say something about aerodynamic points and the sound they make as they fly by you, but I think it would be repetitative so I won't.
Let's just say I am still content about my time investment in this topic.
And I desire no reimbursement for any/all time spent or honour sold so far.

Of course not, but that still doesn't answer the question: why do think I am anything but happy to see you finally agree?

He sounds more like he has some serious mental issues, tbh.

Nah.

Not only are you again seeing things which aren't true, you can't really tell anybody what he's allowed to say. :)
You can try ... but it'll end the same as it does for everything else regarding you. :)

Btw, it's quite funny to see how Tippia keeps destroying you. ^_^

But you already have by finally agreeing with me.

See, there again is the issue. I am not denying anything. You further support the idea that you have mental issues.
You make things up and then build your logic around it, as if your imagination was fact.

How the **** is this thread still going?

I capitalized **** for emphasis while typing this, not that that actually matters.

Yes, it took over 25 pages, so I'd say that GÇ£finallyGÇ¥ is a good description of it.

No. Intelligence is.

Yes, it took over 25 pages, so I'd say that GÇ£finallyGÇ¥ is a good description of it.

No. Intelligence is.

This thread reminds me of the time I went from Jita to Dodixie for some item on contract and when I got back to Jita, I realized the items are on the market now and I could have bought it for half the price right there.

Edit: In the end it turned out, I didn't even need that thing for the fit.

I've been reading through the thread, skimming through a lot of it, and I can see the OP does have a point. Also I can understand CCPs stance on this as well as it would give all the other people who have had skills changed to want a reimbursement also.

Reading through I had an idea though which may be a good solution to the problem. What if Mining Barge V affected a relevant bonus on the Orca. For instance you could remove the Mining Link bonus and from the Industrial Command Ships skill, and make that attribute affected by training up the Mining Barge skill instead. Also you could make a role bonus such as tractor beam range affected by Mining Barge skill also.

Then those who have trained Mining Barge will still have some use for the skill even if they don't want to fly a Mining Barge. Also it would be simple for CCP to implement.

No it isn't.

GǪwhich, as it often does, also coincides with it being the wrong way since it opens the floodgates ...

You are not GÇ£the playersGÇ¥.

Some might think that they want it because they have completely misunderstood how the EVE skill system works and think that it's much like the progression trees you'll find in your average derivative class/level/xp-based RPG. The problem is that the result of what they think they want is the complete removal of skills as a functional mechanic in the game and a complete [surprise-sex] of new playersGǪ and I feel spectacularly confident in saying that Gǣthe playersGǥ do not actually want that.

Only in the sense that it's been ground into a very fine powder and spread for the wind.

Sure they do, especially ...

Incorrect.
People often don't think about the ripple effects of their suggestions, and when they find out, they occasionally even reconsider the value of the suggestion.

Incorrect.
Pointing out the problems caused by a suggestion is very much part of the topic.

GǪand I can say that by doing so, you are ignoring the context and wilfully misrepresenting what's being said, like the troll you are. Pointing out your fallacies and lies is not trolling, nor is it off-topic GÇö in fact, it's very much staying on topicGǪ unlike your incessant attempts at derailing said topic with your misrepresentations, fallacies, and lies.

1.) You *are* a liar.
2.) You don't even know what a discussion *is*.