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Dumah Dakar	Posted - 2005.08.16 15:01:00 - [1] I don't understand why the Phoon was given a range bonus...but yet has such low targeting range. To even get in your optimal range with carbonized lead, you need a booster... But we all know projectiles are good WAY past optimal...so then you need another booster? Tech 2 booster? It's nice to be able to use more powerful ammo at moderate range...but for long range sniper...shouldn't you at least be able to get optimal for all ammo types WITHOUT a booster? That's kinda weird. ____________________________________________________________ The words of great men and women were heard only because they spoke up when others did not. - Dumah Dakar
Jet Collins	Posted - 2005.08.16 15:03:00 - [2] I belive the range bonuse is ment to be used with autocannons??? And thats why the bonuse.
Dumah Dakar	Posted - 2005.08.16 15:05:00 - [3] I see your point...but it would be nice to use all available weapons.. The Moa for example has such a bonus, but you aren't forced to use Blasters... ____________________________________________________________ The words of great men and women were heard only because they spoke up when others did not. - Dumah Dakar
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.16 15:05:00 - [4] Edited by: HippoKing on 16/08/2005 15:05:37 fit a sensor booster II, train up Long Range Targetting, and then pick a type of ammo that does most damage inside your lock range (or fit another sensor booster) don;t use carbonised lead - it has a much longer range than u need, and is like shooting rubber bullets
Weirda	Posted - 2005.08.16 15:07:00 - [5] minmatar target fastest at shortest range - caldari target slowest at longest range. it the symmetrical reverse balance of things... lot of other stuff like that too. anyhow - phased plasma hits for 20% more damage then depleted uranium. and it will give you the same optimal on phoon (approx) as depleted U. on a tempest (with level 4 bs). there is you missing 20% damage bonus... anyhow - as weirda said in another thread... ppl too much discredit the use of optimal range bonus... -- Thread Killer (attempting to train verbosity from 4 back down to 1) <END TRANSMISSION>
Will Basthard	Posted - 2005.08.16 19:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Weirda minmatar target fastest at shortest range - caldari target slowest at longest range. it the symmetrical reverse balance of things... lot of other stuff like that too. anyhow - phased plasma hits for 20% more damage then depleted uranium. and it will give you the same optimal on phoon (approx) as depleted U. on a tempest (with level 4 bs). there is you missing 20% damage bonus... anyhow - as weirda said in another thread... ppl too much discredit the use of optimal range bonus... I think this is becuase the Phoon's optimum range DOES allow for better damaging ammo but it is variable at best. You will only get 20% more damage at the optimum rang w. 0? transversal velocity. Skills, range, transversal velocity, and tracking will all all be variable outside that window; thus, the Optimal range is is a variating damage bonus at best. It is best suited for team play where a m8 is boosting your targetting range. Its not useless... its just not as useful solo. ------
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.08.16 19:57:00 - [7] simple - optimal range bonus is useful even when not shooting at uber range, cos u can at the same range, u can shoot better ammo than u would be able without the bonus
Aleis	Posted - 2005.08.17 02:06:00 - [8] well if it's ment to be used with Autocannons the bonus should be transfered to Falloff, as for Battle ship guns an extra 1km added to Optimal at Battle ship lvl 5 is really worthless
Aleis	Posted - 2005.08.17 02:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Aleis well if it's ment to be used with Autocannons the bonus should be transfered to Falloff, as for Battle ship guns an extra 1km added to Optimal or tracking, at Battle ship lvl 5 is really worthless
Rexy	Posted - 2005.08.17 13:20:00 - [10] yah optimal range bonus for autocannon's being good is some fairytale wich keeps popping up. the bonus allows you to shoot higher damage ammo further, but the typhoon's outclassed in that game by the tempest by miles cuz of more guns and the damage mod. sure you say, the typhoon can shoot way further then the tempest can. sure tempest ends at about 150/160, typhoon can shoot up to 250 with CL, but unless your after friggy's that's relatively useless. ------------------ All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
Wrok	Posted - 2005.08.17 13:58:00 - [11] whoa some people just dont know how to fit/use a phoon...end of story
Rexy	Posted - 2005.08.17 14:07:00 - [12] Originally by: Wrok whoa some people just dont know how to fit/use a phoon...end of story decent forum posting is also an art.. instead of throwing a few flames around, try to enlighten people with your phoon expertise . phoon's gotten better now that cruises are a bit more viable for long range ,true. but you loose the benefit of drones and less damage with long range guns and ammo. ------------------ All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
qyros	Posted - 2005.08.17 15:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Aleis well if it's ment to be used with Autocannons the bonus should be transfered to Falloff, as for Battle ship guns an extra 1km added to Optimal at Battle ship lvl 5 is really worthless A large falloff is useless. It only gives the possibiliy to gank smaller ships with a high tracking short range weapon operating at medium range. The damage reduction of acs at falloff range is ridiculous. But still some people use them at 20km or something.... ---------------------- Even if you think the range bonus is useless for acs, take a look at 1200mms and think about the reduced tracking that comes with the shorter range. Remember the optimal range reduction of mega pulse lasers by 28% and the people crying they couldn¦t hit anymore. I wouldn¦t throw away the range bonus easily.
Dumah Dakar	Posted - 2005.08.17 15:51:00 - [14] I suppose I just don't understand the Phoon concept... Large drone bay, but a bonus that makes you want to put 1400's on it and shoot from miles away....but then they only allow you 4 turret hardpoints... So I suppose CCP wants us to use it for medium range? I guess you could use high damage ammo in your 1400's, torps, and drones in medium range combat...but it seem to me the traversal would be so high the 1400's wouldn't be of much use. Plus at medium range, it'll be torn to shreads by an Armageddon... To me, until I see a good seutp, the Phoon is a ship without a strongpoint. Jack of all trades...master of none. ____________________________________________________________ The words of great men and women were heard only because they spoke up when others did not. - Dumah Dakar
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.17 17:06:00 - [15] The Typhoon takes as much SP to fly effectively as it would take a pilot to be able to fly a ganked out t2 tempest. Tempest is easily used as a sniper while the phoon's optimum roles are only enabled with high missile/gunnery/drone skills. Some would even offer to say the Typhoon should be the tier 2 BS all things considered. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Moridan	Posted - 2005.08.17 22:35:00 - [16] Originally by: Kaylana Syi The Typhoon takes as much SP to fly effectively as it would take a pilot to be able to fly a ganked out t2 tempest. Tempest is easily used as a sniper while the phoon's optimum roles are only enabled with high missile/gunnery/drone skills. Some would even offer to say the Typhoon should be the tier 2 BS all things considered. 1. Tempest as sniper is easy? Sniper anything is somwhat easy, fit big guns, booster, damage mods. But to get the really good single volleys that make people love the tempest, you need lots of skills. 2. Saying the typhoon takes lots of skills to fly effectly really means that its slot layout and powegrid is lacking in several ways from sunday for it to be effective at any one thing. Even then being marginally effective at several things isn't very lucrative, unless you got a specific task in mind. 3. Its biggest asset is its speed and tanking with 7 low slots. It boils down to that the trash can shaped spaceship is really a short ranged animal if you want it to be effective. 4 turrets at range don't accomplish much. 4 autocannons and 4 seige launchers, or a mix of those and NOS, gives it SOME viability at close range, but the battleships it can take on that close is a slim number indeed. I think its a great ship, for taking on mutliple oponents of various types that are smaller than it. Decent speed and drone bay + 8 high turrets gives it flexibility a clever pilot can utilize. I like it to patrol and take on small bands of intruders as it can react fairly fast and cheaper that a hac in the end. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.18 01:57:00 - [17] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 18/08/2005 01:58:18 Originally by: Moridan Originally by: Kaylana Syi The Typhoon takes as much SP to fly effectively as it would take a pilot to be able to fly a ganked out t2 tempest. Tempest is easily used as a sniper while the phoon's optimum roles are only enabled with high missile/gunnery/drone skills. Some would even offer to say the Typhoon should be the tier 2 BS all things considered. 1. Tempest as sniper is easy? Sniper anything is somwhat easy, fit big guns, booster, damage mods. But to get the really good single volleys that make people love the tempest, you need lots of skills. 2. Saying the typhoon takes lots of skills to fly effectly really means that its slot layout and powegrid is lacking in several ways from sunday for it to be effective at any one thing. Even then being marginally effective at several things isn't very lucrative, unless you got a specific task in mind. 3. Its biggest asset is its speed and tanking with 7 low slots. It boils down to that the trash can shaped spaceship is really a short ranged animal if you want it to be effective. 4 turrets at range don't accomplish much. 4 autocannons and 4 seige launchers, or a mix of those and NOS, gives it SOME viability at close range, but the battleships it can take on that close is a slim number indeed. I think its a great ship, for taking on mutliple oponents of various types that are smaller than it. Decent speed and drone bay + 8 high turrets gives it flexibility a clever pilot can utilize. I like it to patrol and take on small bands of intruders as it can react fairly fast and cheaper that a hac in the end. WTF... who said it was a bad ship... I love the Typhoon. By Tempest being easy skills I mean you train a single path... guns. You are not, for the majority of the ship, going outside one path. If you want a sniper setup you HAVE to do a certain path. Typhoon is exactly the opposite.... it takes more variation which need specialization in themselves. This isn't a bad thing... its just as difficult or more difficult to master than a single minded ship. Personally I love the Typhoon so don't hate when someone is being honest about it. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Velic	Posted - 2005.08.18 04:54:00 - [18] Heres a rare phoon setup made specificly to destroy battleships at extreme close range even if it does negate its bonuses. 4 heavy nos 4 siege launchers good named MWD, scramble, web, whatever armor tank in lows MWD within 0 meters of the enimey battleship and lock it down. Then suck its cap to fuel your own tank and pound it with 10 heavys and 4 siege launchers. You might say well geddon can kill it before it reaches that 0 range where its guns can never hit. Typhoon is fastest BS and its armor tank is well capable of handling a gankageddons dmg out put for those few seconds it takes to get into that range. Once phoon gets into that range the fight is over the geddon can only sit there and cound sheep as it dies. The phoon armor tank will more then protect it from geddons drones due to the fact that the geddons cap is fueling the tank. This only works on battleships tho. I guess you could switch the 4 siege for 4 acs if your going after smaller targets. HACs cap get sucked away VERY fast.
Moridan	Posted - 2005.08.18 18:02:00 - [19] Originally by: Kaylana Syi WTF... who said it was a bad ship... I love the Typhoon. By Tempest being easy skills I mean you train a single path... guns. You are not, for the majority of the ship, going outside one path. If you want a sniper setup you HAVE to do a certain path. Typhoon is exactly the opposite.... it takes more variation which need specialization in themselves. This isn't a bad thing... its just as difficult or more difficult to master than a single minded ship. Personally I love the Typhoon so don't hate when someone is being honest about it. I didn't say it was a bad ship. I was merely saying its stats and to some extent its bonuses leave something to be desired. I have flown it a ton myself, and the statements i make come from using and trying to turn it into something great. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Lucian Alucard	Posted - 2005.08.18 18:45:00 - [20] I always used arties and Cap Neuts plus 1 named standard launcher for defenders and no tank just a full gank.Train up Signature Focusing and get T2 Target Painters and use T2 1200s and alot of problems are solved. With the Cap Neuts support smaller ships have no chance,suck their cap they can't move,Paint them then pop them,end of story. Undisputed Lord Of The Forums!!! The best joke ever!!!! http://www.livejournal.com/users/sweet__kitty/40953.html?mode=reply
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2005.08.18 23:38:00 - [21] Originally by: Lucian Alucard I always used arties and Cap Neuts plus 1 named standard launcher for defenders and no tank just a full gank.Train up Signature Focusing and get T2 Target Painters and use T2 1200s and alot of problems are solved. With the Cap Neuts support smaller ships have no chance,suck their cap they can't move,Paint them then pop them,end of story. Yes 1200 IIs are good especially on the phoon where they actually surpass the Tempest using 1200 IIs. Problem is 4 of them do not come close to 6 of them on the Tempest... and the tempest can tank or gank better with 1200 IIs on. I prefer 720mm IIs on the Typhoon if I want range or 1400 IIs + gank. It all comes down to personal preference but If I was a betting girl I would think most phoon pilots ( myself included ) rather go for the snipegank setup on a tempest where the ship is more flexable. I leave the phoon to the ACs and Missiles w. Armor tank... or a nosphoony. jide's oBject eXplorer The Nest
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.08.19 00:27:00 - [22] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 19/08/2005 00:27:48 Heres close range setup that basicly can counter anything smaller the BS size, apart from maybe some of HACs setups, but still shouldnt give much trouble. 4x Cruise Launchers, 4x Heavy Nosferatu 1x Sensor Booster II, 1x Target Painter II, 1x Web, 1x 20k Disruptor 1x Large Named Armor Rep(i use Accomod), 4x Hardeners of choise(usually either 2x Explosive, Kinetic, Thermal or 2x Kinetic, Explosive, Thermal), 2x Ballistic Control Load as much heavy drones as you can, and load launchers with mixture of damage so you can see right away what dmg type your target is weak to and load ammo accordingly. -=-
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.08.19 14:26:00 - [23] After much debate its clear the optimal bonus benefits long range not short range. autocannons are all falloff and an optimal bonus hardly benefits them. Artillery is about 50/50 and can benefit from either bonus. This ship is such a tweener. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Azrael Callidor	Posted - 2005.08.19 18:44:00 - [24] Typhoon topics are one of the few that i actually bother replying to on these forums, mainly because the vast majority of players do not have a clue about the ship. It's sad. It truly is and i try to do my best to change the misperceptions floating around . Dont get me wrong, some posters on these threads know full well how to make best use of the phoon. If that sounds like you, this isnt aimed at you. Since the missile fix the typhoon certainly isnt as user friendly as it previously was, but that by no means removes it's effectiveness. Rather than reply in the manner i would like to (roughly equating to "get a clue"), im gonna give some general pointers. Firstly the typhoon does NOT require intense skills or modules to use. IMHO i'm of the camp of thought that applies this statement to the tempest, and rightfully so i might add. Given some cap mods, and using the remaining lows, you can tank this ship in your sleep. Its so easy its funny. With a bit of pre-planning I've tanked the majority of a 25-man multi-class battlefleet for a good few minutes and still managed to take some down before i finally fell. Damage-wise it's not fantastic - particularly since the missile changes - but it is still sufficient to run lvl 4 missions solo in most cases. The ship bonuses are possibly not the best in the world, but they arent useless either. IMO other than some obscure uber-range sniper setups you should be using this ship in two situations. Close range tank (with NOS if you are pvping) with autocannons/missile launchers (mix accordingly depending on taste + situation) and as much speed as you can muster is probably the most ideal. Yes i know the optimal bonus is useless in this respect but the ship's speed, agility, damage-soaking ability, drone capacity and general versatility SCREAM close range to me. The other main situation i'd use a phoon in is medium range encounters. With a mix of missiles and 1200mm you can use (as has been previously said by various other posters, due to the optimal bonus) higher grade ammunition at longer ranges with a faster RoF than 1400mm (and the ability to actually FIT it). There is no need to shoot at them above your targeting range ffs and there is NEVER a need to be at the kind of ranges carbonised lead provides. Wussies. Combined with missiles (especially now with their velocity boost), emp at 50-60km and less with some 1200mm II isnt too shabby. So remember kids, these are your friends: Speed. Armour Tankage. Nosferatu. Drones. Fit whatever weapons you need to around your main build. You probably shouldnt be going for sheer damage output in the phoon, at least, its the last thing on my list by far.. Its more useful than gankage (which it would be hard pushed to achieve on any scale, especially compared to its bigger and more powerful sister). Hope it helps some people appreciate it a bit more AC

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