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General strategy for defeating kiting Caracal

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Skarp Severasse Mixed Metaphor 1	Posted - 2013.03.09 19:54:00 - [1] - Quote Hi all, so I have been getting hammered by this kiting Caracal in my destroyers and frigs. Not surprising that my unskilled pilot would get hammered, but it lead me to do some theorycraft on the Caracal. Below is a fit i whipped together in Pyfa: [Caracal Navy Issue] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 10MN Microwarpdrive II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Remote Sensor Dampener II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype Engine Enervator Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Rapid Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Bay Loading Accelerator I Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell I Stats: Range: 63.3 km DPS: 231 Speed: 1664 m/s EHP: 18.2k Cap: 2m 30s Note that it has sensor dampener. What would be the general strategy for defeating this bugger in a frigate or destroyer? I know the DPS is low, but for a frig it would certainly be enough to kill it. I think even fast destroyers would be hard pressed because they wouldn't be that much faster than the Caracal. But I could be wrong. I hear speed is the way to go, but would any ship even get within scram range before it died? If you could come up with a solution for a young pilot with limited skills, that would be even better.
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 667	Posted - 2013.03.09 20:30:00 - [2] - Quote Firstly, it's worth noting that the navy caracal is crap as it hasn't been rebalanced. Even a regular caracal is likely to be better. Regardless... You want a frigate that's going to kill a cruiser that has dedicated itself to killing frigates. Not going to happen. Any fast cruiser (Thorax, Caracal, Rupture, Omen, even a tanky Stabber) will, however, have a great chance. The only problem is that because of the low fitting cost of RLMLs, he can be pretty tanky. If you can catch him in any tanky cruiser you'll kill him. A nano'd cruiser (something fast like an Omen) could probably kill him but it's a bit closer. You will not kill such a fit with any single frigate. Even if you manage to get in scram range, RLML caracals are tanky and will be doing at least as much damage to you as you are to him.
Yuri Intaki Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate 125	Posted - 2013.03.09 22:11:00 - [3] - Quote Silly Andreus. You should post with your main or are you scared your manhood withers and drops because your multiboxing attempts dont work? Oh right, I forgot. It dropped years ago. Perhaps you should give us another story on how "Duty." was so awesome it essentially invented FW. Sadly nobody in FW seems to even remember what that corp was, much less what it ever achieved.
Alticus C Bear University of Caille Gallente Federation 136	Posted - 2013.03.09 23:07:00 - [4] - Quote Dual prop Enyo against Navy Caracal as it is restricted to kinetic. Normal Caracal is probably more dangerous and best avoided.
Machiavelli's Nemesis Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide. 160	Posted - 2013.03.10 00:32:00 - [5] - Quote Scramweb it, jam it and poo in its eye. Not that much different from any other ship tbh
Cromwell Savage Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 122	Posted - 2013.03.10 01:04:00 - [6] - Quote Yuri Intaki wrote: .... Speaking of posting with mains.... ...oh wait...
Skarp Severasse Mixed Metaphor 1	Posted - 2013.03.10 01:11:00 - [7] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: Firstly, it's worth noting that the navy caracal is crap as it hasn't been rebalanced. Even a regular caracal is likely to be better. Regardless... You want a frigate that's going to kill a cruiser that has dedicated itself to killing frigates. Not going to happen. Any fast cruiser (Thorax, Caracal, Rupture, Omen, even a tanky Stabber) will, however, have a great chance. The only problem is that because of the low fitting cost of RLMLs, he can be pretty tanky. If you can catch him in any tanky cruiser you'll kill him. A nano'd cruiser (something fast like an Omen) could probably kill him but it's a bit closer depending on skills, fittings, and how much damage he gets on you before you get in range. You will not kill such a fit with any single frigate. Even if you manage to get in scram range, RLML caracals are tanky and will be doing at least as much damage to you as you are to him. Appreciate the insight, Kahega. It put things in perspective. Much appreciated. Also +1 to Yuri Intaki, not because your antagonistic reply was any good, but because you are partly the reason I posted this thread. I am enjoying the encounters even though I get beat to a pulp every time.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 639	Posted - 2013.03.10 02:03:00 - [8] - Quote I don't think there is any frig/dessie that will kill a rLML caracal 1v1 I'd go for a cruiser. Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open!
Skarp Severasse Mixed Metaphor 1	Posted - 2013.03.10 02:08:00 - [9] - Quote Garviel Tarrant wrote: I don't think there is any frig/dessie that will kill a rLML caracal 1v1 I think you might be right.
Captain Nares O3 Corporation 43	Posted - 2013.03.10 03:08:00 - [10] - Quote Well, there are ways to kill it solo in a frig, but I don't think they are available to you. I'd go with at least 2 frigs or one cruiser.
JAF Anders Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 45	Posted - 2013.03.10 04:11:00 - [11] - Quote [Vengeance, Vengeance fit] Overdrive Injector System II Reactive Armor Hardener Small Armor Repairer II Small Armor Repairer II 1MN Afterburner II Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 200 Warp Scrambler II Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I (PG implant or swapping a nano pump for an ACR could replace the overdrive and cover the Thermal hole) You'd have to camp the gate of a Medium plex and snag the Caracal on the warp-in. Even still, it'd be a pretty rough fight and a dual-web Caracal would still have a huge advantage. Any ideas?
Cute E Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.03.10 13:02:00 - [12] - Quote Yes, don't failfit your Vengeance.
Cute E Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.03.10 13:10:00 - [13] - Quote For this specific task, I'd run this: [Vengeance, Blackstone mk3] Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Nova Rocket Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Nanobot Accelerator I Needs a 1% CPU implant and V armor comps skill to work best. It should allow you to get up close and personal really fast (3227m/s overheated), get a scram on, then offline the MWD and get around 44s of capacitor with everything running or 58% cap stable with only the deadspace repper running (should be plenty really). Pop the strongest Exile booster available (or Mindflood, for that matter, might actually work) and wear the guy down with around 150DPS (rage rockets). Bit more expensive: [Vengeance, Blackstone mk3] Small Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Coreli C-Type Small Armor Repairer Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket 'Upir' Small Nosferatu I Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Rocket Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I Small Nanobot Accelerator I No CPU implant required so maybe a LG/HG slave set would help?
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 670	Posted - 2013.03.10 15:15:00 - [14] - Quote AARs still eat cap. That fit caps itself out in 20s with everything running. Quote: You'd have to camp the gate of a Medium plex and snag the Caracal on the warp-in. Even still, it'd be a pretty rough fight and a dual-web Caracal would still have a huge advantage. Any ideas? Even a single-web Caracal will be doing basically full damage even with your AB on.
Super Chair Project Cerberus Caldari State Capturing 461	Posted - 2013.03.10 16:19:00 - [15] - Quote I would honestly say use a T1 caracal over the navy issue. The t1 is faster, has enough cpu to actually fit 2 lse and invul (with its choice of HM, Hams, or RLML), and has the choice using any damage type it wants (well, any missile boat has this choice, infact most navy caracal pilots will carry explosive and em just incase), but the T1 caracal is actually bonused for it. There are ways to speedtank RLML caracals, involving ABs, drugs (at least standard, preferably improved), and implants to reduce your signature radius, add in loki links and you're pretty much set. Project Cerberus is recruiting for the US Timezone, click here
Andreus Ixiris Mixed Metaphor 2214	Posted - 2013.03.10 22:37:00 - [16] - Quote Skarp, firstly, don't engage that guy alone. Secondly, the fit is much more likely to look something like this. Thirdly, a RLML Caracal will be utterly terrible against any cruiser that's fit to fight things its own size. Before you joined the corporation, we ran into a guy called Jurik McMoney who flew literally nothing but RLML Caracals. And I do mean literally nothing else - even if he couldn't get into a plex, he'd show up in one and just sit on the gate (even if he knew no-one else was coming into the plex). The problem, as he soon discovered, is that the only advantage the RLML Caracal has over other cruisers is its ability to kite. If it loses that, it dies horribly in a fire, because any properly-buffered high-DPS cruiser will eat through the shield tank with its larger weaponry while the Caracal's light missiles go plink-plink-plink and do basically nothing. Additionally, Jurik was smart enough to carry missiles with various damage types, but if a Caracal uses anything other than Scourge its damage drops noticeably since it stops getting its kinetic damage bonus. As with many kiting ships, the RLML Caracal can be thwarted by sitting on the warp-in point of the plex and scramming it as soon as it enters. You have to be very vigilant in case it tries to get out of your scram range (which is why having a friend with you helps, obviously) and be ready to punch your microwarpdrive and scram the second they come back online. Judiciously overheating your scram and possibly your MWD (although be very, very careful of overheating your MWD as it'll burn out FAST) can help prevent him from getting away. If the Caracal has a web in addition to a scram it cannot possibly have more than two shield extenders (unless it dropped the propulsion module, which on a cruiser is a fitting tactic more commonly known as "suicide") which means that its buffer certainly won't outlast the buffer of a cruiser fit for killing cruisers if it remains in optimal range. In all likelihood if a RLML Caracal sees two cruisers sitting inside a plex it won't enter it without calling for backup, but that's fine too. Mane 614
Cephelange du'Krevviq Hephaestus LLC Get Off My Lawn 132	Posted - 2013.03.11 00:11:00 - [17] - Quote For those of you discussing the Caracal's kinetic damage bonus, it no longer has that. "5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity" "My hotdrop was bigger." "Accidental cyno best cyno."
Andreus Ixiris Mixed Metaphor 2214	Posted - 2013.03.11 03:07:00 - [18] - Quote Cephelange du'Krevviq wrote: For those of you discussing the Caracal's kinetic damage bonus, it no longer has that. "5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity" Ugh, totally forgot that. Don't fly them, you see. Mane 614
JAF Anders Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats 47	Posted - 2013.03.11 03:27:00 - [19] - Quote Cute E wrote: For this specific task, I'd run this: The exact thing you posted, just MWD instead of AB. Then I put parts on that cost more than the target ship.
Garviel Tarrant Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 640	Posted - 2013.03.11 06:01:00 - [20] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: AARs still eat cap. That fit caps itself out in 20s with everything running. Quote: You'd have to camp the gate of a Medium plex and snag the Caracal on the warp-in. Even still, it'd be a pretty rough fight and a dual-web Caracal would still have a huge advantage. Any ideas? Even a single-web Caracal will be doing basically full damage even with your AB on. You don't run everything. Silly man. I still don't think the veng will win unless it has links though. Beyond Divinity Recruitment is open!
Yuri Intaki Nasranite Watch The Bloody Ronin Syndicate 127	Posted - 2013.03.11 06:14:00 - [21] - Quote Andreus Ixiris wrote: Skarp, firstly, don't engage that guy alone. Why? By your own words I am an "unskilled N00b" who can be "killed by anyone with half-decent fit".
Skarp Severasse Mixed Metaphor 1	Posted - 2013.03.11 13:16:00 - [22] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: My word, old chap. You forgot to tell me you have written a blog post about it: Magic Nullification: Countering Kiting (I accidentally a link) Well done!
Skelee VI Sturmgrenadier Inc 22	Posted - 2013.03.11 13:48:00 - [23] - Quote Vengeance, dual ASB jag, maybe a sentiel
Kahega Amielden Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance 672	Posted - 2013.03.11 14:55:00 - [24] - Quote Quote: My word, old chap. You forgot to tell me you have written a blog post about it: Magic Nullification: Countering Kiting (I accidentally a link) That was Petrus. He is not my alt, just my slave.
Skarp Severasse Mixed Metaphor 1	Posted - 2013.03.11 15:07:00 - [25] - Quote Kahega Amielden wrote: That was Petrus. He is not my alt, just my slave.
lollerwaffle Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE 32	Posted - 2013.03.12 03:37:00 - [26] - Quote What about something like this? [Caldari Navy Hookbill, Anti cruiser fit] Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script Warp Disruptor II 1MN Microwarpdrive II Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Light Missile Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Processor Overclocking Unit I Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I Cap is an issue, and anything faster than you will kill you in a heartbeat, damps the caracal down to 19km lock range (stacking sucks) EHP: 2,774 DPS: 139 Cap: 31s w/ everything on Mobility: 3299 m/s (4.6s align) Alternatively swap out lows for 2x nanofibers and lose some fitting mods for more mobility LOL /trollfit
Umega Solis Mensa 135	Posted - 2013.03.12 05:41:00 - [27] - Quote CN Caracal vs dessie/frig.. Ishkur. Derp. Sorta standard cookie cutter Ishkur.. ions, c-boost, AB, scram, SAR, DCU, EANM, 5x hobs.. here is the tricky bit. Overdrive and last 25m3 bay space going to a flight of webber drones. Have web drones out, aggressive aggro.. you get damped, they don't.. overheat AB and scream in.. scram out the MWD, switch to hobs. Easily tank kin RLMLs from a CN-car in an Ishkur. Regular Caracal. Drop the EANM for an explosive one.. and give it a whirl. He might end up be spending 20-30 seconds on reloads trying to find your hole.. while you simply go void + hobs and unload. Some cookies are better with different toppings.. it's ok to try the other flavors.
Skarp Severasse Mixed Metaphor 1	Posted - 2013.03.12 06:06:00 - [28] - Quote Umega wrote: CN Caracal vs dessie/frig.. Ishkur. Derp. Sorta standard cookie cutter Ishkur.. ions, c-boost, AB, scram, SAR, DCU, EANM, 5x hobs.. here is the tricky bit. Overdrive and last 25m3 bay space going to a flight of webber drones. Have web drones out, aggressive aggro.. you get damped, they don't.. overheat AB and scream in.. scram out the MWD, switch to hobs. Easily tank kin RLMLs from a CN-car in an Ishkur. Regular Caracal. Drop the EANM for an explosive one.. and give it a whirl. He might end up be spending 20-30 seconds on reloads trying to find your hole.. while you simply go void + hobs and unload. Some cookies are better with different toppings.. it's ok to try the other flavors. Nice. Very creative. And it sounds fun.
Tiffany Starr State Protectorate Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.03.13 04:47:00 - [29] - Quote Quote: What would be the general strategy for defeating this bugger in a frigate or destroyer? I know the DPS is low, but for a frig it would certainly be enough to kill it. I think even fast destroyers would be hard pressed because they wouldn't be that much faster than the Caracal. But I could be wrong. I hear speed is the way to go, but would any ship even get within scram range before it died? If you could come up with a solution for a young pilot with limited skills, that would be even better. I think I've identified the problem!
Tsubutai Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 170	Posted - 2013.03.14 11:30:00 - [30] - Quote lollerwaffle wrote: What about something like this? [Caldari Navy Hookbill, Anti cruiser fit] Even if you have a full HG Snake set and skirmish links, an RLM caracal will be able to force that off with FOFs long before you can put a dent in its shields.

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