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WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:09:00 - [31] "This gross, disgusting imbalance exists because sentry guns prevent player pirates from operating effectively in Empire Space" Yes, Setec's panacea. We need more gate campers dammit! LOL "Trust No One"
Guardian334	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:13:00 - [32] "Fun" is not being harassed by bored PKs who kill you in seconds. Risk to reward. There is no reward when bored players get to screw up your entire game for three seconds of their fun. Keep Pirates Out Of Empire Space Also, fix the market so it doesn't reset like a 20year old BBS Door game every day. Are you guys programmers or exploiters ?
Sybylle	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:15:00 - [33] @Galaga : I do not think it favors european... When the downtime occurs, it's between 11 and 12 am GMT, I'm at work :/ I'm in a GMT+2 area (due to summer time) and even without this additionnal hour of the summer time, I still won't be able to play it... So I do not think european players have a really advantage over the downtime. The only ones that can take profit of that downtime are ppl that do not work or are in holidays... (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
Ends	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:19:00 - [34] You know the trade market has not matured yet, its not efficent. When people start to bid competitively for these goods MANY of these problems will go away. Trade is not supposed to be as profitable as it is imo, and its not going to stay this way for long. People will start to catch on and bid those profits tighter and we will see the goods reach more hands as this happens. If you want to see goods reach more hands then bid a winning price to trade them. Buy a bit above best market price and sell a bit below, you'll get your cut of the pie. Eventually the profits on the goods will come into line with the other options for making ISK in the game becuse everyone has a instinctive understanding of dimishing returns for their efforts when compared to other things they could be doing. Profits will be squeezed down until it balances out. Better for everyone to be encouraging competition if you want the trade system to function without imbalencing the game.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:26:00 - [35] It seems a lot of people are against the idea of pirates in empire space. But nobody complains about NPC pirates... maybe they're not hard enough to offer a worthwhile threat in empire space.. So here's an alternative: NPC cruisers. Two or three of them at random gates. You'll see how forgiving they are, and you'll be begging to let real pirates back in. The differences between NPC cruisers and humans is very small when the NPC's warp jam you, web you, and slowly pick you to pieces. How ya like them* apples? *I'm all for pirates back in the empire. .
Sybylle	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:35:00 - [36] Pirate in empire space should be allowed... But in a lower way that it was at the beginning... They should be able to stay quite happy in up to 0.2 areas...Then PROGRESSIVELY they should have more and more problems moving to highers areas. Maybe a week ago there was a topic about Concord and their presence through empire space... I pointed out (if I remember well) : 0.1 - 0.3 : a bunch of frig, maybe some cruisers of Concord travelling to each object of the system (no camping) with long response to attack (maybe more forces, but much time to run out of the area) 0.4 - 0.7 : cruisers essentially, and at max 1 battleship, medium response *0.8 - 1.0 : battleships with hight response This would make the universe more alive, make travelling more interesting and make pirates more happy...Fixing concord correctly would fix loads of things... (\_/) (O.o) (> <)=Oveur (proof) "Jumping 50 systems I can like, have sex 150 times during that period"
WhiteDwarf	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:36:00 - [37] "*I'm all for pirates back in the empire" I think majority rules in this case. This being backed up by how CCP handled the griefing problem. "Trust No One"
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.07.23 16:47:00 - [38] Quote: Risk to reward. There is no reward when bored players get to screw up your entire game for three seconds of their fun. Keep Pirates Out Of Empire Space Sure there is. Pirates can't intercept everyone. It's up to the person as a skilled trader to make sure they're not one of those intercepted. Otherwise, they're nothing more than a furcovered market leech with 0 skill. Perhaps that's the objection everyone has against piracy in empire space: They're furcovered market leeches that know they can't get past even the simplest blockade. Being a trader is supposed to have some risks after all. Moving the supply to 0.0 space isn't a solution as the number of jumps makes it HIGHLY discouraging even for huge sums of profit. Plus, supply outside Empire space the risk soar significantly. You're not talking about 2-3 solar systems along the trade route you have to worry about. You're talking dozens of solar systems. If all robotic parts were moved to Curse I guarantee the only people that would run them would be pirate alts. Empire space has the ability to control the amount of risk because, with a working security system, the risk would be minimized. So shed the fur, leech. If you want the trade routes, you should have risk for them. Right now the only risk a trader has is he might spend some of the isk he puts up for his buy order before it gets filled and get fined...Oops, they deactivated market fines if I'm not mistaken. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.23 17:31:00 - [39] I'm following the slim hope that the major fixes they put in were pre-emptively harsh, and they needed to make the place 'safer' while the dev team have their well deserved break. hopes .
Bentguru	Posted - 2003.07.23 18:24:00 - [40] Edited by: Bentguru on 23/07/2003 18:28:15 Problem here is that those trade routes are mapped. You can predict to the item the amount of robitics being sold/bought. What WOULD be nice would be a dynamic trade system, where demand would shift (since honestly they don't need 100k robitics EVERY DAY) but the supply wouldn't (since the factories wouldn't move). As an added bonus this is realistic and i got no problems with pirates in Empire space. At least give those traders some thrills, god it must be worse then being a miner!
Bentguru	Posted - 2003.07.23 18:24:00 - [41] Problem here is that those trade routes are mapped. You can predict to the item the amount of robitics being sold/bought. What WOULD be nice would be a dynamic trade system, where demand would shift (since honestly they don't need 100k robitics EVERY DAY) but the supply wouldn't (since the factories wouldn't move). As an added bonus this is realistic
Slyworth	Posted - 2003.07.23 18:46:00 - [42] [QUOTE]I think majority rules in this case. This being backed up by how CCP handled the griefing problem.[/QUOTE] What majority? Most people agree that the sentry guns in 0.0-0.4 space are too much and are ruining the game and taking out any risk. Trading should not be completly risk free, considering it's the best profit making profession out there. I don't like griefers as much as the next guy but it's stupid to simply make the game a farce, especially when a lot of pirates weren't griefers/PKers. These outlanding trade routes have only become a problem ever since all the risk has been taken out and pretty much anybody with an indy can do solo with a small investment. Before that it was very risky to run around with 30million+ worth of trade goods and most people did not. Now the whines are about how some people are buying it all too quickly. Slyworth
Magallen	Posted - 2003.07.23 18:59:00 - [43] Moving high profit trade runs to out side of Empire space will encourage traders to take bigger risk for much bigger rewards. Only problem I have with this is the potentiality of it going all to hell. Those outer region alliances already have a monopoly on Bistot, which is the best way to make money if mined effeciently. Now the outer region alliances will monopolize the trade runs that are in their systems. These alliances can freely go to Empire space and freely trade their cargo in their controlled systems. Every one else will be stopped by the Alliance and bared from engaging in trade in the outer regions... not nice EVE forces you to either player corp buddy or nasty pirate, freelancers can be damned to hell.
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.07.23 19:05:00 - [44] This subject angers me more then anything else in this game besides travel times. FIX THE MARKET SUPPLY ALREADY AND STOP DISCRIMINATING AGAINST PPL WHO CAN ONLY LOG ON SEVERAL HOURS AFTER SERVER REBOOT! And put some 0.0 systems in those trade routes also. The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO
Nerul	Posted - 2003.07.23 19:18:00 - [45] I believe what is happening is that when the server starts up, another thread is running in the background fulfilling peoples buy orders. If you look immediately after the downtime, you'll see a lot of supply. If you wait 30 seconds, all the supply is gone (as the background thread takes care of all the orders). It's not just with robotics, it's with any good that has a lot of buy/sell orders. I've seen it with Isogen. There's no way that someone could have jumped to all the stations and bought robotics that quickly, especially if you see yourself as the only person in local and the number of pilots in space or in station reports just 1 (you).
Gauguin	Posted - 2003.07.23 19:27:00 - [46] Quote: Those outer region alliances already have a monopoly on Bistot, which is the best way to make money if mined effeciently. Now the outer region alliances will monopolize the trade runs that are in their systems. These alliances can freely go to Empire space and freely trade their cargo in their controlled systems. Every one else will be stopped by the Alliance and bared from engaging in trade in the outer regions... not nice Only the supply needs to be in the 0.0 security regions. The high-priced demand needs to be in the high level security Empire space. The goods produced for cheap in outlaw regions can be labeled contraband or something, Empire customs forces would patrol the transit systems and destroy ships carrying contraband, or force them to pay duty, or whatever. Players could join the customs service and scan the cargo of ships arriving in empire space. If cargo is determined as contraband the customs officer is free to take hostile action (some in-game mechanic would allow the 'customs agent' player to do this without a security hit). The contraband would need to be fenced and legalized somehow once it enters empire space before it could be sold on the open market. There is a number of ways this type of thing could be done.
Ctaesis	Posted - 2003.07.24 05:21:00 - [47] Quote: Also, fix the market so it doesn't reset like a 20year old BBS Door game every day. Are you guys programmers or exploiters ? No kidding. I think TradeWars has an external program that has to be run daily. Come to think of it, I think TradeWars has more players than EVE and PvP combat! Wow... where's my telnet client? Short List of Games with Gameplay Included: Elite TradeWars SubSpace ________________ "Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.07.24 12:31:00 - [48] Make CONCORD and Sentry Guns attack any trader within Empire Space. Up with Pirates, Down With Traders! LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.07.24 12:59:00 - [49] lol I posted this quickly in another thread the other day, but I don't think there is any real need to take the 'easy' trade routes out of empire space. When the narcotics are introduced, they will rule nearly all money-making enterprises, as they do in the real world (almost). The best thing is, nowhere is safe if you got a cargohold full of blue pills. Concord will rip you to shreds, no questions asked. Pirates will steal it from you. It will hopefully be the ultimate in high-risk high-profit trading. And those that are scared of 'danger' can stick to robotics/frozen seeds. And Whitedwarf, that thing about the majority rule... In light of recent events/changes, that would simply not seem to be the case anymore, eh? .

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