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Stazzmo Dave's Tax Shelter 1	Posted - 2013.03.11 19:23:00 - [1] - Quote Before i took a break from Eve a few years ago i remember going on a level 4 mission with a corpmate and while I was salvaging for her in my Catalyst I was floored that she was able to solo it in a little Ishtar. I was super impressed, it seemed so effortless. And now that I am back I find I want to be able to do that too. But she is not around anymore to pester for advice so before i start planning and training i turn to you friendly forum folks. 1. Passive shield tanking or armor? I see fits for both but is one preferable over the other? I currently can solo level 3's in my armor tanked Myrmidon but if shields are the way to go im not afraid to train that up. Patience is a virtue. 2. Sentries will do the long distance work but is it worth it to fit guns? 3. One of the new things i noticed is that the AI has been targeting my drones. No specific question, i just wanted to complain about it. 4. Any other fitting issues i should be aware of? 5. Also i'm sure there will be those that will argue that this can be accomplished cheaper in a Domi, which I am also open to. Losing an Ishtar would be an expensive mistake. Is this a worthy goal? The Ishtar seems a logical choice with the skills I have and the type of ships i previously flew, are there other options i should be considering?
Kodama Ikari Concordiat Spaceship Samurai 26	Posted - 2013.03.11 21:40:00 - [2] - Quote do you have t2 sentries? yes -> potentially worth doing no -> possible but... eh IMO if you want a shield fit you're probably better off with a gila. I haven't ever done lvl 4's in my gila or ishtar so take my advice with a grain of salt. Some first-hand PI tips
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 35	Posted - 2013.03.11 21:54:00 - [3] - Quote ishtar is a nightmare trying to fit. Not enough cpu by a mile
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 601	Posted - 2013.03.11 22:05:00 - [4] - Quote the new eve... how do i rat for free... I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tauranon Weeesearch 134	Posted - 2013.03.11 23:59:00 - [5] - Quote if you don't fit and fire guns and land hits the npcs will switch to the drones very quickly. The ishtar is more hamstrung by drone aggro than the dominix, because the dominix has sufficient ehp bulk to just sit on its drones, and can immediately bay them where as the ishtar is great when its not getting drone aggro and can speed tank. The net result occasionally finds me having to traverse to a perch to make the ishtar work - ie sentry drones that are not close to frigates often get no (meaningful) aggro. I do fly my ishtars all the time, but mostly for exploration where its combo of speed, fast locking, gurista/serp tank, firepower and being allowed through most gates is pretty hard to beat. I prefer dominix for level 4 missions because its greater firepower will clear pockets faster and because its easier to get 1000 dps, decent rat specific tank and counter fit ewar all in the 1 package.
Blue Absinthe Liberal Fortress Liberal Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.03.12 01:41:00 - [6] - Quote Sounds like I'm in a similar position to you. Ignoring all fly-a-domi issues, could anyone actually using an Ishtar in level 4s thinks about the following: - When (active) armor tanking the EHP just seems incredibly low. Mixing active and passive tanking has always seemed like a bad idea to me, but I'm wondering in 800mm plates would give it a bit more breathing room and the recent relative buff vs 1600mm plates as well as the new Armor Honeycombing skill means the difference to the ship speed is minimal.
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 63	Posted - 2013.03.12 13:39:00 - [7] - Quote @Blue, not exactly an answer to your question, but Ishtar has great capability for passive shield. I've been flying with such setup long time ago, long before NPC AI change, and the tank was marvellous (only place where it failed was AE bonus and even then it took a while so there was a time to make plan B). The downside is there's not much room for anything else and eventually I've reverted to active armor - holds well enough, allows more fitting options. An interesting but unexplored (by me) option is active shield. @Stazzmo, even while drones make the most of your DPS, guns are still worth having. If anything, you can use them to protect your drones.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1210	Posted - 2013.03.12 15:21:00 - [8] - Quote I dunno. I have found an RR Ishtar works fairly well with the new NPC AI. When your drones get aggro, you aren't getting shot. And sentries can tank surprisingly well. They also hit well as long as you fit 1-2 omnis. It is still a good bit of micromanagement, but it does work.
Kodama Ikari Concordiat Spaceship Samurai 26	Posted - 2013.03.12 15:53:00 - [9] - Quote Blue Absinthe wrote: Sounds like I'm in a similar position to you. Ignoring all fly-a-domi issues, could anyone actually using an Ishtar in level 4s thinks about the following: - When (active) armor tanking the EHP just seems incredibly low. Mixing active and passive tanking has always seemed like a bad idea to me, but I'm wondering in 800mm plates would give it a bit more breathing room and the recent relative buff vs 1600mm plates as well as the new Armor Honeycombing skill means the difference to the ship speed is minimal. Back before DDA's, I (almost) always fit a 800 plate to my ishtar, because it has very thin base armor. I was doing nullsec explo though, and not missions. as for guns, I used to use a 75mm railgun to draw aggro. I never really had spare cpu for anything else. If you want to get some extra dps out of your ishtar with guns, I think a mwd fit using ogres would be more natural. If you throw a weak passive shield tank on, you have a really high dps fit that's ideal for nullsec belt ratting. Before, it was sufficient to get aggro from the rats once and then deploy sentries. That one gun is still mandatory, but I haven't done enough testing to see if changing from 0 applied dps to 50 or 100 is sufficent to reduce aggro on the sentries. I do know that if I get initial aggro in a tengu and then warp in a gila and the gila drops sentries (even before shooting some weak light missiles) I'm much more likely to get aggro on the gila than on the gila's sentries. I've also experienced that with just the gila, if I don't do any missile dps, the rats will always instantly aggro the drones as they're scooped and redeployed without ever targeting the gila. I mean to try out the solo-1-gun approach soon, just to see if the drone aggro is significant, in the hopes that 1 gun is still sufficient to keep drone aggro low. Some first-hand PI tips
Cypher Decypher Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO 17	Posted - 2013.03.12 18:10:00 - [10] - Quote Pre AI changes to mission NPC's, I used to run nothing but an Ishtar for Serp Level 4's. I used high kin/therm resists and a small A-Type local rep. Main issue as mentioned was the already bad CPU being crippled further by Sentry Damage rigs. Now, though, we have CPU rigs AND drone damage mods \o/. Which makes the 'tar much easier to fit. Yes, you can passive shield tank the 'tar for Serp/Guristas, it's great for close-range missions because you easily get 45k+ ehp, 300dps tank even with triple DDA's in the lows. The real quick & huge dps fits are armour-tanked sentryboats and nowadays use a couple of DDA's in the lows with a MAR and resists; dual or triple ODL's in the mids with an AB and SeBo or cap buffer; small Deadspace RR in the high plus a gun or two or tractor/salv. Just adjust the fit for close-range or snipe depending on the mission. Dual DDA's plus the ODL's turn Hammerheads in to absolute beasts, and Garde II's have a 52k optimal with good tracking. On a sidenote I never use an MWD on a mission fit 'tar. The tiny sig is a very definite part of your tank.

Blue Absinthe Liberal Fortress Liberal Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.03.12 18:45:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for the replies. I'm eager to use the Ishtar for progressing to level 4s but it's potentially a lot of wasted (or rather misdirected) SP if it doesn't work out or is too impractical. @hmskrecik - are you using that active armor setup post the NPC change in level 4 missions? Any problems with the EHP being so thin or drone agro? @Derath - are you using the Ishtar for level 4s? Assuming you're armor tanking, any problems with the EHP on the armor being so low? @Kodama - be interested to hear what you find out when you try one gun with the new AI change. I'm reluctant to go with a shield tank since it seems like omni trackers are a must (and realistically I'd need to sink SP in to improve my shield tanking skills). I might give the 800 plates a go, good to know that you've used them successfully. @Cypher - very helpful post. What rigs are you using on your mission active armor Ishtar? One sentry one CPU?
Stazzmo Dave's Tax Shelter 1	Posted - 2013.03.12 19:22:00 - [12] - Quote Blue Absinthe wrote: Thanks for the replies. I'm eager to use the Ishtar for progressing to level 4s but it's potentially a lot of wasted (or rather misdirected) SP if it doesn't work out or is too impractical. The same, thanks for your replies. After this its clear the more realistic goal for me is to be able to solo level 4's first, which means the Domi. The fancy Ishtar can wait.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1212	Posted - 2013.03.12 19:45:00 - [13] - Quote Blue Absinthe wrote: Thanks for the replies. I'm eager to use the Ishtar for progressing to level 4s but it's potentially a lot of wasted (or rather misdirected) SP if it doesn't work out or is too impractical. @hmskrecik - are you using that active armor setup post the NPC change in level 4 missions? Any problems with the EHP being so thin or drone agro? @Derath - are you using the Ishtar for level 4s? Assuming you're armor tanking, any problems with the EHP on the armor being so low? @Kodama - be interested to hear what you find out when you try one gun with the new AI change. I'm reluctant to go with a shield tank since it seems like omni trackers are a must (and realistically I'd need to sink SP in to improve my shield tanking skills). I might give the 800 plates a go, good to know that you've used them successfully. @Cypher - very helpful post. What rigs are you using on your mission active armor Ishtar? One sentry one CPU? Below is a fit I have used. EHP isn't a problem due to the signature of the Ishtar. Heck, I've run LVL 4 missions in an assault frigate, which has no EHP. It is slow, but it works because the big stuff (like the battleships) simply can't land a hit. Sig and speed tank is very useful. Against serpentis it also has a 405DPS tank, which is huge for a ship this size. Also, yes the Ishtar is a bit tight on CPU, but unless your fitting skills are crap (and let's face it, you shouldn't really consider flying a Tech 2 or Tech 3 ship without the proper skills). It isn't a huge deal. If you faction up my fit a little you can upgrade to medium blasters. As configured however I rarely ever even use the guns. They are mostly there to take down frigates that get close so I don't have to pull sentries and deploy some lights. [Ishtar, Moldy one Mission copy] True Sansha Medium Armor Repairer Armor Thermic Hardener II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II 10MN Afterburner II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II Salvager I Centii A-Type Small Remote Armor Repair System Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge S Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Garde II x5 Warden II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 63	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:49:00 - [14] - Quote Blue Absinthe wrote: @hmskrecik - are you using that active armor setup post the NPC change in level 4 missions? Any problems with the EHP being so thin or drone agro? Not anymore for long time. And at that time I've been using it with Ogres II because I haven't had sentries trained. Then I switched to Proteus and later to battleship sized hulls. Ishtar worked wonders but those were just better. On the other hand, Ishtar is much cheaper to replace. EHP is indeed a little on low side but I started doing L4's with Myrmidon and so I was already used to seeing armor dropping to 25% before repper cycled. :)
dexington Caldari Provisions Caldari State 602	Posted - 2013.03.13 14:57:00 - [15] - Quote hmskrecik wrote: Not anymore for long time. And at that time I've been using it with Ogres II because I haven't had sentries trained. If you don't have the skills to use T2 sentry drones, you can use the navy faction drones. They are a lot more expensive, but pretty close to T2 damage and only require T1 skills. Unless you plan on doing missions semi afk, you are probably not going to lose them, and they really are a big upgrade compared to the normal T1 sentry drones or standard heavy drones. I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 41	Posted - 2013.03.13 15:01:00 - [16] - Quote The difference in damage between t1 and t2 is not the issue, it's the optimal and tracking and iirc the navy drones have the same as the t1
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1213	Posted - 2013.03.13 15:24:00 - [17] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: The difference in damage between t1 and t2 is not the issue, it's the optimal and tracking and iirc the navy drones have the same as the t1 not exactly For Garde's as an example Optimal on T1 vs faction is the same (20km vs 24km) tracking T1- .03 Faction- .038 T2- .036 Damage modifier T1- 1.6x Faction- 1.728x T2- 1.92x So while you really just need to get to T2 if you are serious about drones. The faction are a worthwhile investment while you wait. I did that and when I was done I sold the faction ones back for about the same as I had bought them.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 42	Posted - 2013.03.13 15:28:00 - [18] - Quote well that's interesting, the navy ones have the best tracking. The main thing I remember the problem being (especially gardes) when i used t1 sentries is that their optimal is so short that everything gets under their tracking too quickly. Now with tech 2s and 2 fed navy omnis the gardes can comfortably hit out past 50k and because of their ridonkulous damage it's enough time to bring everything down
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1213	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:06:00 - [19] - Quote Tsukino Stareine wrote: well that's interesting, the navy ones have the best tracking. The main thing I remember the problem being (especially gardes) when i used t1 sentries is that their optimal is so short that everything gets under their tracking too quickly. Now with tech 2s and 2 fed navy omnis the gardes can comfortably hit out past 50k and because of their ridonkulous damage it's enough time to bring everything down Yea I never used T1. I invested in Navy for about 7 weeks until I had T2 sentries trained. Pretty much I've found with 2 omnis, Gardes can drop most things easily. Cruisers down to 10km or so and everything outside that. The only time I pull them for lights are if some frigs get too close.
hmskrecik TransMine Group German Information Network Alliance 63	Posted - 2013.03.14 09:36:00 - [20] - Quote dexington wrote: hmskrecik wrote: Not anymore for long time. And at that time I've been using it with Ogres II because I haven't had sentries trained. If you don't have the skills to use T2 sentry drones, you can use the navy faction drones. They are a lot more expensive, but pretty close to T2 damage and only require T1 skills. Unless you plan on doing missions semi afk, you are probably not going to lose them, and they really are a big upgrade compared to the normal T1 sentry drones or standard heavy drones. Frankly, I don't remember what exactly was I thinking at that time. Cost of the navy sentries must have been significant factor but it must also been along the lines that I didn't regard sentries as viable option (without sentry rigs, which I didn't want to use, and DDA's, which didn't exist by then). In fact, it took me flying battleships with large railguns to get more insight into optimal, falloff, tracking and signature radius/res mechanics, enough to understand and use said sentries effectively. When it happened I finished training sentry interfacing and had some fun with both Ishtar and Domi while for serious ISK making I prefer to launch Kronos or Vindicator, though Gardes II happened to be extremely useful in exploration fitted Proteus.

CMD Ishikawa Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2013.03.14 13:13:00 - [21] - Quote Ishtar can run level 4 missions, specially guristas and serpentis, however like you said is a fancy but by far not the best way. IMO Domi will do a better work, some target painters will help you a lot managing npc aggro. I prefer the Rattlesnake because it looks 1000 times better than the flying potato and it's tank is awesome, but that'd require good shield skills.
Mer88 Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2013.03.16 03:50:00 - [22] - Quote ishtar or any other non-bs ships is good for l4 once in a while but if you want to do this for long time, a proper battleship is better. you might want to try a gila first i think u can train one in 5 days or less. the dps and tank should be about the same as ishtar
Ilrania M'nere Space Underground Silent Infinity 0	Posted - 2013.03.22 17:19:00 - [23] - Quote Hey guys just want to drop my 2 cents into the mix. I love sentry drones - they are my favorite form of DPS in EVE. I'm very very addicted and i love ships that can use them. I'm at heart a caldari pilot - missiles/shields- I started out Drake --> Raven --> CNR and then started playing with drone skills/Galente ships like the Myrm and Domi. At the point I had Caldari/Galentee BS and Cruiser to 4 and BC to 5 I found the Gila/Rattlesnake. As a preference both because I have great shield skills and only mediocre armor skills but also because all damage mods are low slots so I prefer to use them as such....... but I love to shield tank myrms/domi. Finding the Gila/Rattlesnake which are essentially made to do that was wonderful. I can run l4's and Forlorn Dens (that is the hardest basic anomaly right? if not I mean the hardest ones that are not complexes) in a Gila. Its a beautiful ship and can do things very quickly. I actually just finished running the Caldari Epic Arc in my Gila and did all but the long low/null sec traveling in it (for those I used a nemesis). I can run the anomalies MUCH faster and easier in the Rattlesnake. I think the new myrm is spectaclar and will be play testing using those as I think they might be better than the Gila now...but can't say for sure yet. Domni is a great ship but I like them better for PVP with their ~1400 dps 150k buffer tanking than for pve. Although I've run anoms with Domi shield buffer tanks and it works pretty well lol. Gila has lows: 3 DDA and1 cpu II mids: 1 omni, 2 large shield ext, and then specific resists and usually a 10mn afterburner II highs: 1-2 drone range extenders and maybe 1 missile bay for agro. Has 750dps with just drones (gardII's) I keep those, a longer ranged once (usually wardens but whatever damage type needed for the mission) and then a set of lights/mediums II's for smaller ships. I have found that letting the drones get agro while you sit next to them is a wondeful tanking option, since you can scoop it and redeploy the done in about 3 secs so you lose 1/5 of your damage for 1x 4 sec tick and the NPC's waste time re-targeting you or other drones. Rattlesnake is a beautiful beast , especially for the lazy semi-afk anom runner. Lows: 4 DDA II, 2 SPR II, Med : 1 LSE II, 2 Omni II's, 4 fited resists High: 2 DLA II's, 4 Cruise missiles 1-2 or torps 1-2 depending on what your doing (only get 150-250 dps out of these so its negligible) Rigs: 3 large defense field purgers Drones: 5 garde II's (850 drone dps), 5 curator I's (680 drone dps), 5 hammerheads II, 5 hob II's, whatever else you want to have This is a DPS fit, if you want more tank drop an omni for another extender and a DDA for another SPR, But tanking Sansha (aka worst thing to tank with a rattlesnake) the above is enough for all anoms. (not complexes). I recently started using an ishtar on another character to run complexes....I would recommend it over the Gila/Rattlesnake for that use alone - but I prefer the other two for mission running/price/ease of flying and would recommend the Gila to anyone who likes drones/shields as the first ship to train for!! Note for Sentry Drone Users: The omni directional tracking links are spectacularly useful. I would highly recomend at least 1 navy or 2 navy/tech II's on every drone ship you can manage to get them on. They keep the damage you do each volley at its MAX and drastically increases your actual vs potential dps.
Sabotaged Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels 31	Posted - 2013.04.10 07:06:00 - [24] - Quote I did the Federation Detention Facility FNSBR-106V w/ 2 ishtars using this fit: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/6052-Solo-L4-Ishtar-Passive-Shield-Tank.html. Used tech 1 Bouncers tho. My skills aren't perfect. After 2 hours, 3 battleships remained, they orbit 50-60 and my drone control range is only 40km. I got over it. 666 dps tank wasn't enough in the beginning, had to warp away a few times. I got bored and flew in my buzzard to quickly loot toward the end. It got pwned. :( ~37 million isk, Made only 30 mil from the site. fail. oh well. Drone interface IV...took 3 minutes to kill a battleship with 8 bouncer T1 drones. They target them alot, but what's funny tho is they try to warp scramble them too. Target / Total damage / Average damage / Hits / Misses / Hit % Federation Praktor Hexeris / 118791 / 51.2 / 2161 / 159 / 93% Federation Praktor Hexeris / 61843 / 49.1 / 1201 / 59 / 95% http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=25196 You'll be dampened unable to target past 5km which no one comes within. plus warp scrammed. What made this site the most difficult was the fact that you can't target for majority of the time. According to the forums someone claimed with a faction CNR (1400 dps tank) and barely survived getting out. I really need T2 drones. Hit target 4252 times Missed target 1948 times Hit percentage 69% Total damage dealt: 342908 Hit you 6716 times Missed you 3846 times Hit percentage 64% Total damage received: 588963 Hit target 5926 times Missed target 2092 times Hit percentage 74% Total damage dealt: 339120 Hit you 11279 times Missed you 9743 times Hit percentage 54% Total damage received: 680502
Tauranon Weeesearch 147	Posted - 2013.04.10 07:44:00 - [25] - Quote Sabotaged wrote: I did the Federation Detention Facility FNSBR-106V w/ 2 ishtars using this fit: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/6052-Solo-L4-Ishtar-Passive-Shield-Tank.html. Used tech 1 Bouncers tho. My skills aren't perfect. After 2 hours, 3 battleships remained, they orbit 50-60 and my drone control range is only 40km. I got over it. 666 dps tank wasn't enough in the beginning, had to warp away a few times. I got bored and flew in my buzzard to quickly loot toward the end. It got pwned. :( ~37 million isk, Made only 30 mil from the site. fail. oh well. Drone interface IV...took 3 minutes to kill a battleship with 8 bouncer T1 drones. They target them alot, but what's funny tho is they try to warp scramble them too. Target / Total damage / Average damage / Hits / Misses / Hit % Federation Praktor Hexeris / 118791 / 51.2 / 2161 / 159 / 93% Federation Praktor Hexeris / 61843 / 49.1 / 1201 / 59 / 95% http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=25196 You'll be dampened unable to target past 5km which no one comes within. plus warp scrammed. What made this site the most difficult was the fact that you can't target for majority of the time. I'm not suprised you lost your buzzard. You should have lost your ishtars on principle. (a) its a 6yo fit that is terrible by todays standards. (b) bouncers are the wrong drones for federation ships. Gardes / Wardens are situationally the right types. (c) control range of 40km should never occur on a PVE ishtar, its got 2 utility slots. fit a link aug (d) bouncers are the wrong drones for 40km control range fits. Gardes are better suited, because bouncers start to struggle with tracking, where as gardes have excellent tracking for 30-40km shooting. (e) the drones should go right on and kill whatever ship you are shooting at when you lose lock to the damps, and then on aggressive they should go right on and start shooting a damp source. You can stop them if they are shooting a trigger, which you can see what they are shooting by either observing line of shot or mouse over-ing the drone interface window for each drone.
Sabotaged Angels and Demons Inc. Mordus Angels 31	Posted - 2013.04.10 20:33:00 - [26] - Quote Quote: I'm not suprised you lost your buzzard. You should have lost your ishtars on principle. Wow. what hate. whats the problem? anyway, that 6yo fit that is apparently terrible by todays standards is the only fit that could take the damage. I can either tank it, or put a drone link and forget about the whole thing.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 58	Posted - 2013.04.10 22:00:00 - [27] - Quote once navy vexor is changed im going to have a crack at level 4s with that.


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