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consitution
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:00:00 -
[1]
comeon i mean wtf, they are always camped and if you arnt the camper you dont stand a chance of finishing one and if you do manage to get in you have to wait hours and hours for a keymaster to spawn. why dont ccp do anything about it?
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:02:00 -
[2]
There's actually quite a lot of discussions already going on about Complexes happening in the Missions forum. Check em out.
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:03:00 -
[3]
It depends on where you go. 2 Days ago me and 2 other guys formed a gang and ran half the complexes in Domain. Didn't have too much trouble with overcrowding. It's just that the complexes on the beaten path are overpopulated.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:06:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Derron Bel
It depends on where you go. 2 Days ago me and 2 other guys formed a gang and ran half the complexes in Domain. Didn't have too much trouble with overcrowding. It's just that the complexes on the beaten path are overpopulated.
That, and the high security ones are frequently camped, whereas the low security ones are camped considerably less.
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Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:11:00 -
[5]
Actually it doesnt bother me now as the price of faction ships have dropped ridiculously because of the farming which make's them more then just ornaments.
Just after the cold war patch came out prices for vigilants were 80-90mil now there around 40-50mil and will probably still continuse to drop.
But on the other hand if you do wanna run complex for other reasons then the BPC i can see it being annoying.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:15:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kye Kenshin
Just after the cold war patch came out prices for vigilants were 80-90mil now there around 40-50mil and will probably still continuse to drop.
Well it's not like they're tech2 ships, and once everyone came to that realization the prices fell.
Originally by: Kye Kenshin
But on the other hand if you do wanna run complex for other reasons then the BPC i can see it being annoying.
That's probably the biggest problem right there. I enjoy the different challenge that a complex presents, as opposed to just straight NPC hunting by warping from belt to belt. I find complexes are a lot more interesting, there's some decent loot, and lots of stuff that blows up really big like. :)
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Pheole
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:20:00 -
[7]
another thread of the *CCPWEWANTMOREMONEYMOREEASILY* type
who cares, really
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2005.08.19 13:59:00 -
[8]
I want a faction frigate suicide squad to go PvPing in :). Just for the uniqueness of any killmails :)
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Diss Champ
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:03:00 -
[9]
Actually, the OP didn't ask for money they said complexes were messed up.
Which they are. The reason being that they are profitable to an unbalanced
extent combined with the ability to farm and keep others from getting the
benefit as well in high sec (low sec, get a gang together and kill the
farmers).
Complexes need to be throttled (only get to run a certain frequency), and
either have their rewards nerfed sufficently that people do them for the
challenge rather than farm, or made instanced and the other places in the
game where one can get the same benefits boosted to match. I.e. agent
running balance the offers and unnerf the bounties.
A nice role for complexes would be to give people who haven't earned high
level agents a place to get a challenging PvE fight, without the same
level of rewards as agent runners get for the higher time commitment. As
implemented, they are instead a way to get rewards agent runners had spent
a long time working toward (with camping "skills" substituting for
standing as a qualifier to use).
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Diss Champ
A nice role for complexes would be to give people who haven't earned high
level agents a place to get a challenging PvE fight, without the same
level of rewards as agent runners get for the higher time commitment. As
implemented, they are instead a way to get rewards agent runners had spent
a long time working toward (with camping "skills" substituting for
standing as a qualifier to use).
I do like the idea of faction standing playing a part in accessing some complexes. To add, might I suggest that this would be an excellent way to secure the empire complexes against access by people with high standing with their own empire. Such that say Gallente complexes wouldn't be able to be used by Caldari unless they've got a high standing with the Gallente faction.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:13:00 -
[11]
tbh instancing them will only increase the farming of npc complexes since then everyone and their dog could do it.
Only real way to discourage farming is to push the bpcs out to more dangerous areas where people are less inclined to sit in a complex all day farming it.
Not a perfect solution but its an option.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Pheole
another thread of the *CCPWEWANTMOREMONEYMOREEASILY* type
who cares, really
You cared enough to post.
I went thru a couple of totally uncamped fully spawned plexes when I had a lull in a war and was far from where I normally hang out.
Just get off the beaten path.
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Elektra Storm
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:19:00 -
[13]
i want a nightmare bpc, but these are rarer than most it seems, wish they were as common as macherals.
Death to the Gallente |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wild Rho
tbh instancing them will only increase the farming of npc complexes since then everyone and their dog could do it.
But everyone and their dog can mine, buy BPOs, sell things on the market, etc. Why should this be limited?
Originally by: Wild Rho
Only real way to discourage farming is to push the bpcs out to more dangerous areas where people are less inclined to sit in a complex all day farming it.
There seems to be this feeling among people that the ships you build from these BPCs are something more than they really are. These are not tech2 ships, in fact I would barely classify them as tech1.1. The Vigilant for instance has some ok resistances and bonuses, but has a serious lack of a drone bay.
It's like the Thorax, but without one of the major features that makes the Thorax fun. And it's nowhere near the meatgrinder that the Deimos is. Mmmm... Deimooooss.....
Most people who spend all day farming it aren't there a week or two later after they realize they wasted all that time for the Thorax's prettier sister, albeit one with a lot less personality.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:26:00 -
[15]
Guess I stand corrected then 
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:36:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Guess I stand corrected then
It's not about being right or wrong (am I the only one who's watched Babylon 5 here?). :) It's more about people (not you) forming an opinion on the subject of complexes after trying to go through one or two of them.
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Bring Cranker
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Wild Rho
tbh instancing them will only increase the farming of npc complexes since then everyone and their dog could do it.
But everyone and their dog can mine, buy BPOs, sell things on the market, etc. Why should this be limited?
But, WB, those activities you mention are also heavily affected by other players choice to take part in them. Maybe not to an equal extent - but same same I'd say a long part of the way.
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Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:46:00 -
[18]
I tell you one type of complex that i alway's see empty is 5/10 drone complexes.
They are alot of fun to do and you can make quite a bit of isk from all the compounds but there isnt a bpc at the end AFAIK.
Plus you'll need some friends if your gonna do the last stage.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.19 14:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bring Cranker
Originally by: Winterblink
But everyone and their dog can mine, buy BPOs, sell things on the market, etc. Why should this be limited?
But, WB, those activities you mention are also heavily affected by other players choice to take part in them. Maybe not to an equal extent - but same same I'd say a long part of the way.
I agree, that's why I said what I said. :) I'm indicating that I don't see the point in having this one aspect of this game instanced for private use. There has to be other ways of working with these environments so that everyone can get a fair chance at them.
Or maybe that's the wrong way to go about it (or to describe it). After all, while everyone has the same ability to go deep into 0.0 space to mine that doesn't mean everyone has the same chance at succeeding at it, largely due to the effects of other players.
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Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
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Posted - 2005.08.19 17:21:00 -
[20]
#1 thing to remember, 90% of all the campers in ANY game, are doing so to ebay. be it from the isk to sell or even as i just seen from an ad on (of all places) eve radio, BPc's. Ya dont think so? Look at EQ, EQ2, WoW, Old E&B, list goes on.
Complexs should be missions given out by agents. Add in timers so they cannot be farmed. Or just timers on the account. Still not the end all of fix's since the heavy campers usually have more than 2 accounts.
Im so HOTT i dont need a sig! |
Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.19 17:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
#1 thing to remember, 90% of all the campers in ANY game, are doing so to ebay.
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.08.19 18:17:00 -
[22]
Guristas 4/10 scout outposts do drop crap...some better/bigger versions of these ones would be nice (low sec only)...
And I agree with winterblink the Faction ships are ok but not great compared to T2 ships...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.19 18:37:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Drilla
Originally by: Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
#1 thing to remember, 90% of all the campers in ANY game, are doing so to ebay.
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
90% of statistics are false
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Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
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Posted - 2005.08.19 18:39:00 -
[24]
Quote:
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
Lol Check my time in game. BTW IF YOU see ME In YOUR territory, Just pack up and leave, because WE are comming to take it.   
Im so HOTT i dont need a sig! |
Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.19 18:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
Quote:
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
Lol Check my time in game. BTW IF YOU see ME In YOUR territory, Just pack up and leave, because WE are comming to take it.
Ohh please try!
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.19 18:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
Quote:
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
Lol Check my time in game. BTW IF YOU see ME In YOUR territory, Just pack up and leave, because WE are comming to take it.
SWA ftw huh?
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Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
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Posted - 2005.08.19 19:08:00 -
[27]
YUPPERS!!! SWA Will own the eve universe! 
fear my shuttle of intell doom 
Ill go make a corp now so yall can war dec my 1 woman corp and shuttles of Doomage. hehehe
/emote Yells* Hey Honey, I know who 2 of the "23" are now...
Im so HOTT i dont need a sig! |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.19 20:17:00 -
[28]
There need to be more keys, some going to dead ends, some going to the cow level and some straight to hell but there need to be more keys and more levels, hanging around waiting for the keymaster is not for this gatekeeper... 
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Demetrius Carnigie
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Posted - 2005.08.19 20:17:00 -
[29]
Complexes could be made into intance dungeons, however this may ruin the feel of the game.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2005.08.19 21:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Demetrius Carnigie
Complexes could be made into intance dungeons, however this may ruin the feel of the game.
CCP has been against instancing and sharding from the beginning, I doubt that'll change.
If you venture out a little further you'll find tons of complexes that aren't being camped all the time, but if that's too inconvenient for you then by all means sit at the camped ones all day and whine on the forums instead. I know for a fact there's lots of complexes out in 0.0 that are completely empty almost every day...
____________________________________________________________________
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Static Ga'lraith
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Posted - 2005.08.19 21:25:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Drilla
Originally by: Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
Quote:
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
Lol Check my time in game. BTW IF YOU see ME In YOUR territory, Just pack up and leave, because WE are comming to take it.
Ohh please try!
Don't do it Drilla, he's got a gun!!
-
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.08.20 14:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Static Ga'lraith
Originally by: Drilla
Originally by: Vr3x1dv1nc2dSc46t
Quote:
90% of alt idiot posters like you are ebayers.
Lol Check my time in game. BTW IF YOU see ME In YOUR territory, Just pack up and leave, because WE are comming to take it.
Ohh please try!
Don't do it Drilla, he's got a gun!!
OMG HE'S GOT A GUN!!
/me runs away screaming like Ikvar 
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.20 14:36:00 -
[33]
An idea I had was maybe branching complexes.
You go through the first stage with the usual run of npcs. You then have 3 other gates you can choose from (and maybe a couple that require certain science skills - already in some complexes I know).
From those complexes they also branch into further ones.
In the next stages there are more gates that all require different keys and once again some that require certain skills. The key you get depends on which one is dropped by the npc gatekeeper there.
It gives the oppertunity for a complex to be expanded significantly preventing any one player from harvesting everything inside.
That said it wouldn't "fix" the problem but it may help. It also involves some player choice since some branches could lead to little rewards where as others could lead to some nice bpcs.
As its been said, faction ships are only a little better than tech 1 and no where near as good as tech 2 so maybe making the bpc drops for them a good deal more common will encourage prices to drop to a range between tech 1 and tech 2 ships.
With any luck we might see more of these ships actually being used instead of being trophy pieces in peoples hangers.
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Baron Xad
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Posted - 2005.08.20 14:54:00 -
[34]
I find the most frequently camped complex to be the Serpentis 3/10 (the Narcotics Warehouse). The problem with it is that the loot drops are completely skewed compared to other 3/10s.
If you get lucky on a Serp 3/10 you can make 100~m from loot fairly easily. (Two Gistii items from the Stronghold + a Vigilant BPC off another overseer, yes I have gotten all that to drop in one run-through before.) I believe they should nerf the Gistii drop rate on the final overseer to bring it in line with the other high-sec bases, but that's just me.
Best advice I can give to any up-and-coming complex runners is get spare keys whenever possible.
Pants have pockets -> Pockets hold wallets -> Wallets hold money -> Money is the root of all evil -> Ergo, pants are the root of all evil. |
Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.08.20 20:28:00 -
[35]
AFAIS, there are 2 solutions:
1. Make complex access based on agents.
"The local authorities deem you too inexperienced to activate this gate. Perhaps spending more time doing the odd job for a <insert faction here> agent will help build your experience."
Everyone gets a 1.0 standing boost from their "birth" faction, so anyone can enter a 1/10. Ok, that's fine. Even in highly populated systems, 1/10s are usually not 100% blown to bits or camped. But no eBayer is going to run agents for 2-3 weeks just to get a 2.0 faction standing to enter a *2*/10. Of course, any complex in 0.4 - 0.0 would require no standing to enter.
2. Local complexes and hand out the front door key from a special class of agents as agent mission rewards.
"You handled that pirate invasion well. Perhaps when you get a moment you can check out this pirate deadspace complex? No hurry, we've got it pretty much locked down. We just need someone to investigate for any potentially dangerous materials."
Not designed to be a grind reward, but it means you have to do a bit of work beforehand. Planning to do a complex means you have to do just that, plan. You have to do the agent mission, get the key, get some friends (Have you seen a fully respawned complex? It can be tough.), and generally use your head as you go through, because once you warp out...you're out until you get another key.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.08.20 20:33:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 20/08/2005 20:37:14
Complexes are supposed to be food for competition.
They are a resource, just like rare roid belts or conquerable stations are.
The problem being that alot of them are in high sec space, where you can't effectively compete for them as you can in 0.0 space or low sec empire.
Oh, and above poster is of course totally whack with his silly idea of coupling complexes to agents.
Why do you think CCP introduced complexes to start with ? If they wanted more agent based semi-instanced stuff they'd have made new agent missions instead of complexes, you dig ?
Anyways, try getting into a 10/10 complex using your system of standings. Not gonna work is it when you max obtainable standing is 9.5, which takes about 2000 hours of whoring to achieve, and typically is onyl reached by those not inclined to venture out to where the 10/10 is situated anyway.
So, let's keep complexes something to compete for ok ? We need more stuff to compete for badly enough, no use reducing it further. If the loot is the issue, then by all means nerf low end complex loot. It's not like that 3/10 is hard anyway.
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.08.20 20:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
Anyways, try getting into a 10/10 complex using your system of standings. Not gonna work is it when you max obtainable standing is 9.5, which takes about 2000 hours of whoring to achieve, and typically is onyl reached by those not inclined to venture out to where the 10/10 is situated anyway.
You missed the part where he said 0.4 and below wouldn't need standings. 
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VSX EVE Design |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.08.20 20:52:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Vilserx
Originally by: Marcus Aurelius
Anyways, try getting into a 10/10 complex using your system of standings. Not gonna work is it when you max obtainable standing is 9.5, which takes about 2000 hours of whoring to achieve, and typically is onyl reached by those not inclined to venture out to where the 10/10 is situated anyway.
You missed the part where he said 0.4 and below wouldn't need standings.
Oh, yeah, true.
Sorry bout that. Point still stands tho, complexes arent agent related and should never be.
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