|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877

|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.
EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.
Now, I would like to remind people to post constructively, please! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877

|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi,
The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.
EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.
Now, I would like to remind people to post constructively, please! I think she is calling us all stupid... I can find little counter evidence. 
wat? ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877

|
Posted - 2013.03.13 17:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Andski wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi,
The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars.
EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does.
Now, I would like to remind people to post constructively, please! tl;dr: "new eden is an ocean"
All joking aside, that's not a bad analogy really :) ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877

|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:EVE physics is not realistic as everybody else has already said. It's a shame the "fluid" nonsense doesn't make any sense either.
The most annoying thing to me is how wrecks stop moving when you kill something that was moving. The max range on guns is also fairly ridiculous.
No it doesn't make any sense in a scientific bent; but it *does* make EVE a fun game; which I believe is the main point ? ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1877

|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:The Game physics are based on a fluidic model; which whilst not being a model of our universe, is much more intuitive to people who live around a planet and drive cars. ... and Species 8472. ISD Suvetar wrote:EVE would be far too complicated if it simulated true relativistic and newtonian physics, Says you. Do we look like DUST bunnies? ISD Suvetar wrote:and that would certainly be impossible to manage in a way that lets the game run as many simultaneous connections as it does. Right., it can't be done. (Oh and the last pic is of a ship going directly from space into planetary atmosphere. Indy game, cost less to make that what CCP spends on pizza in a year.)
I think you're stretching my point a bit there :)
Either way it's not an argument; it's how it is currently and I'm simply giving the reasons that have been given before by CCP developers.
ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1878

|
Posted - 2013.03.13 23:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand anyway, I prefer the Futurama solution: since you can't go faster than the speed of light, increase the speed of light.
That's not quite as insane as it sounds; One of the theories of how the universe has expanded so far, in the time that we think its been around could indicate that the speed of light was actually faster in the early stages of the universe.
Science, capsuleers! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1879

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 01:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Surely one of the biggest atrocities against relativistic physics in this game is the instant communication.
I can be in a station 10AU (80 light minutes) from an asteroid belt and get instant intel from the belt that there's three untanked Hulks there from a scout and assemble a fleet to obliterate them well before the message should have even travelled 1AU.
Of course this is needed for the game to be entertaining.
The backstory that (supposedly) covers this, is actually almost possible now.
Quantum entanglement is an idea that many people know of, but generally don't understand (like Schroedingers cat don't get me started).
Not only is it that the changes that happen to one of the pair is transferred inversely (a clockwise spin on one becomes an anti-clockwise spin on the other). It's been shown that this happens at distances so far from eachother, that the change could not have been communicated in a medium that's bounded by c.
Not only that, but there are estimates that this transfer could be anywhere as fast as 10,000 times c.
Of course, the problem we have is reading the entangled pair without destroying it and of course, easily inducing a change in the quantum state.
This is the real magic!
* c being the constant of the Speed of light. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1879

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 01:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Halcyon Ingenium wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:(like Schroedingers cat don't get me started) Would it be safe to say that this is both a very and not very frustrating issue for you?
It depends how fast you ask me!
(Quantum Uncertainty is not the same the the Observer effect) ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1879

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 01:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:is actually almost possible now. ...I see they teach you ISDs about as much physics as the physics programmers :)
The very fact that we can currently make these experiments and make these observations, means that it's possible in a physical sense, rather then any kind on-paper theory here.
I am not suggesting that we will all have fluid routers in the next few years. ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1879

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 01:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:
We can perform the experiments, but even in principal you can't use entanglement to transfer information. Hence why I took issue with "possible in the near future". As far as we know, it won't be possible ever :(
Oh well, as has been rightly pointed out EVE doesn't have to be realistic as long as it's fun.
EVE is fun :)
But, regarding the other point - I know I'm being a pedant, but it depends what you define as being information? After-all, the experiments prove that we know the state of one of the pairs ... and if we can't actually extract the specific (although i'd bet we'd just be saying that any of one rotation is 1, and any of the other is 0) we have the information that the pair was changed by effecting the first.
If we didn't know that, we wouldn't know that the experiments work! ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1882

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 02:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:
The reason for this: Measure one particle's state and you gain some information, but until you know what the state of the other particle was measured to be your information is useless. The only way to find out what the state of the other particle was is to have the information about its state transmitted classically.. slower than light.
To follow this idea them, what would stop them from using some kind of message pattern ?
If you think about TCP/IP packets, a header describes the message, but it's done in situ and, crucially, its done at the same speed as the packet.
In a quantum entangled system, perhaps you'd send a message specific to your pair that could be recognised in its own state or inverted; You'd then follow with a checksum that proves the polarity of the opposite pair, so if you get 01010101 you know that the other one is in a clockwise state, and 10101010 is anti-clockwise.
Holy ... did we just invent TCP/QP ? (Quantum protocol) ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1883

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 02:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
iskflakes wrote:
This would work if at the transmitting end you could choose the state of your entangled particle to be 1 or 0, but the problem is you can't do that. When an entangled state is created the spin of the particle is random, which means the other member of the entangled pair also has random spin -- so no fancy checksumming or parity system will work. The only decision you get to make is when to measure the state (and whether or not you measured it is not something the other person can determine without first sending their results for comparison).
Here's a math analogy: Think of two people sitting in different galaxies, both with random number generators with the same seed. One of the two generators has a random pattern ("the message") XORed with its output. Both people can both generate random numbers whenever they want, but can't examine the state of the generator or otherwise communicate. Is it possible for one of the two people to determine the message? Clearly it's not possible unless you can compare the output of the two generators -- which means sending the output of one of them slower than light, and this defeats the whole purpose of your messaging system.
I see what you're getting at; I guess it would depend what happens to your pair after you first entangle them and then induce a change in one's state too. After all, there is a point where they can communicate at sublight speed, and that's when they're made and tangled.
This, of course, relies on us inventing a system that allows us to induce and read a change, without breaking the existing entangled state; which I'm led to believe is also very hard at the moment.
Hmm food for thought, it's a fascinating topic!
More on this tomorrow I think, it's very very late here :) ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1891

|
Posted - 2013.03.14 15:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:Andski wrote:Pantiy wrote:He is a goon we know they aren't very intelligent. wait you're agreeing with a troll reply and you think newton came up with relativity 'lol' He was a clever dude and he did  Wait what? Also space is a liquid.
It's true, I read that Newtonian Relativity can be summed up in the pithy statement: "The laws of physics (mechanics) are the same for any observer moving at constant speed."
Quite profound :) ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
|
|
|
|