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Solo WH's: What Amarr based ships to use?

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Aldrex Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:01:00 - [1] - Quote So I've teched into Amarr ships up to Battleship due to armor tank and laser weapons, but everywhere I've looked I've seen people always recommending Caldari ships for WH's (Drake for lvl 3's, maybe Rattlesnake for 4's, etc) so I've been wondering why this exactly is and what, if any, Amarr ships would match up and do well solor in C3/C4 (though I understand c4's are iffy at best even in a rattlesnake). If someone could give me a list of the best Amarr ship for class 1-4 solo, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
chris elliot EG CORP Talocan United 152	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:32:00 - [2] - Quote Aldrex wrote: ...everywhere I've looked I've seen people always recommending Caldari ships for WH's (Drake for lvl 3's, maybe Rattlesnake for 4's, etc) so I've been wondering why this exactly is ... Thanks. I don't have any fits for you but I can tell you why that is. The first is the way the two races tank damage. Shield has a passive regen that can be buffed with mods while using no cap. Armor always takes cap to run. So its possible to do a site with absolutely no cap whatsoever and you will still regen your tank with shields. Second is in their weapon systems. Missile range is(on a drake) about 50 km which is usually far enough to hit just about anything. A pulse harbinger for example will struggle with anything beyond 23 km when using scorch. Even when sleepers are out of missile range the time it takes you to get close enough to hit them is usually filled swatting down sleeper frigates and cruisers. Coupled with the fact that they will almost always hit for full or near full damage means your real world dps stays both fairly high and fairly consistent all the way through. Missiles also require no cap to fire which is important when a lot of the sleepers like to neut, and on unstable capacitors like the amarr that can be very very bad. Forcing you to warp out and back in multiple times, or, if you get capped out before killing the scrambling frigates in some of the c3+ sites, killing your ship. Shield ships, namely the drake, are fairly newbie friendly when taking the above into consideration. You do not require some special methods or skills to be effective in them. This ease of use makes them popular and also cheap. There is no reason to use a 1 bill paladin if you can do it in a 70 mill drake just as fast or faster.
Tsukino Stareine EVE University Ivy League 42	Posted - 2013.03.13 18:59:00 - [3] - Quote amarr ships are terrible for soloing wormholes but are exceptional for fleet ops in higher classes. Guardians are pretty immune to neuting due to cap chains and have monstrous repping power. Combined with amarr ships naturally strong armour buffer means running capital escalations in c5/6 (archon being the preferred triage carrier) is extremely efficient. So morale is: small scale ops in c3 and below: passive tanked caldari. Large scale capital escalations in c4+ amarr wins out.
Aldrex Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:03:00 - [4] - Quote So... basically for soloing I'm screwed as Amarr then...? That about right? Well... ****.
Omega Crendraven ARG TeAm ELITE 12	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:19:00 - [5] - Quote Aldrex wrote: So... basically for soloing I'm screwed as Amarr then...? That about right? Well... ****. No, the zealot and the legion are excelent ships for running C3's, specially the ham legion.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1213	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:19:00 - [6] - Quote Solo you can do C1/C2 in a Harby C3 solo a legion works well. Above C3 you generally need a spider tank. I've seen people run C4's in RR legions but RR tengus are more popular.
Kodama Ikari Concordiat Spaceship Samurai 29	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:20:00 - [7] - Quote chris elliot wrote: Even when sleepers are out of missile range the time it takes you to get close enough to hit them is usually filled swatting down sleeper frigates and cruisers. Coupled with the fact that they [your missiles?] will almost always hit for full or near full damage means your real world dps stays both fairly high and fairly consistent all the way through. news to me... Some first-hand PI tips
Lady Ayeipsia Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 580	Posted - 2013.03.13 19:33:00 - [8] - Quote Omega Crendraven wrote: Aldrex wrote: So... basically for soloing I'm screwed as Amarr then...? That about right? Well... ****. No, the zealot and the legion are excelent ships for running C3's, specially the ham legion. Wouldn't a HAM Sacrilege also work well?
Kusum Fawn State War Academy Caldari State 300	Posted - 2013.03.13 20:00:00 - [9] - Quote I have never had any particular problems running a Legion, however i have a tower so i scan with a different ship. Zealot i hear is good for the 1-2 sites while it wont tank the c3 sites, legion can run any of 1-3 sites, though one of the radars will give it a lot of trouble if not make it impossible. Fitting one ship to do everything is impossible because of the tank requirements in the c3. though im sure you could skimp on cap stability in the c1-2 using the emergent sub on any ship but the loki seems to nerf the damage enough that its not enough to quickly run c3. and by extension the scanning loki would be slower in the c2s as well. I would not suggest living in a wh solo, or without a tower. If you have a tower you need at least one alt in a scanning ship to help you get back in the event you get podded . If you are just daytripping the lack of utility slots on amarr non-t3 ships hurts. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Inkarr Hashur Sine Nobilitatis 249	Posted - 2013.03.13 20:36:00 - [10] - Quote Fun exercise: try to omnitank an amarr battleship against sleepers. Of course, with cap stability.
Aldrex Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:47:00 - [11] - Quote So... any possibility of a passive tanking amarr missle boat? Say... the Sacrilege?
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 130	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:54:00 - [12] - Quote As said above harby will easily do c2s and I've done hundreds of c2s in both Drakes and Harbs and a pulse harb is a little harder to get the most out of it but it does a very good job, very comparable to a drake and may even be better in some sites. Zealot is excellent for c2s but it's a lot to spend for a small upgrade from the harb. As for c3s I hear legions are good but I've never used one so can't say, Seems to me that a zealot would struggle in a c3.
Georgina Parmala Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 10	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:00:00 - [13] - Quote Inkarr Hashur wrote: Fun exercise: try to omnitank an amarr battleship against sleepers. Of course, with cap stability. You can do C3 anoms fairly easily in a double rep baddon even with suboptimal skills. The two battleships on the last wave of the outpost frontier can blueball you pretty hard if you don't pay attention and burn one down fast. Just don't try to solo a radar site. It will be slow. Your tracking on cruisers will suck. You will rely on drones to kill frigs. You need to know the site and position for the battleship spawns if you want to burn them down with MF. Afterbuner helps, but you can't run it when you need to cycle the second repper. Your cap will hold just fine even under neuts, as long as you don't run both reps and shoot Conflag with the AB on for minutes at a time. You will lose 3-4x the cost of a drake when you goof up or get ganked. But it works. I've done it with Amarr BS3 and Large Energy Turret 3. Legion and Absolution will handle them too. Harb is plenty for C2.
chris elliot EG CORP Talocan United 154	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:15:00 - [14] - Quote You can passive tank a prophecy and rely on drones for your damage if you wanted to. If I remember right c2 sleeper sites put out something like 300 dps worth of damage. It will take you so long to do the sites though it would be nothing more than an eft lolfest. Baring the neuting sites you could probably make a regular armor prophecy that would work fine. The resist bonus will work wonders for your effective reps. You just need to do some drone management. Something like this might work in c2's and will be overkill in a c1, though admittedly its been a while since I ran c2's so take it however you like. [Prophecy, lol] Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Experimental 10MN Afterburner I Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [Empty High slot] Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Garde II x3 Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x2 Garde II x2 You have about 16 minutes of cap running nothing but your reppers. Which you will only need to do briefly on the final waves. Reps about 350 so you should be ok. Damage is mostly in your drones but its still good for about 390dps which is enough to run 1's and 2's. Only run the burner when you need it. Just slowboat along the rest of the time.
Inkarr Hashur Sine Nobilitatis 249	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:17:00 - [15] - Quote Georgina Parmala wrote: Inkarr Hashur wrote: Fun exercise: try to omnitank an amarr battleship against sleepers. Of course, with cap stability. You can do C3 anoms fairly easily in a double rep baddon even with suboptimal skills. The two battleships on the last wave of the outpost frontier can blueball you pretty hard if you don't pay attention and burn one down fast. Just don't try to solo a radar site. It will be slow. Your tracking on cruisers will suck. You will rely on drones to kill frigs. You need to know the site and position for the battleship spawns if you want to burn them down with MF. Afterbuner helps, but you can't run it when you need to cycle the second repper. Your cap will hold just fine even under neuts, as long as you don't run both reps and shoot Conflag with the AB on for minutes at a time. You will lose 3-4x the cost of a drake when you goof up or get ganked. But it works. I've done it with Amarr BS3 and Large Energy Turret 3. Legion and Absolution will handle them too. Harb is plenty for C2. True enough. Anoms only do 600 DPS after all. But then again, lots of things can tank 600 DPS. My sights are still on the radar and mag site waves that do 1k and 1.3k
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 130	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:56:00 - [16] - Quote chris elliot wrote: You can passive tank a prophecy and rely on drones for your damage if you wanted to. If I remember right c2 sleeper sites put out something like 300 dps worth of damage. It will take you so long to do the sites though it would be nothing more than an eft lolfest. Baring the neuting sites you could probably make a regular armor prophecy that would work fine. The resist bonus will work wonders for your effective reps. You just need to do some drone management. Something like this might work in c2's and will be overkill in a c1, though admittedly its been a while since I ran c2's so take it however you like. [Prophecy, lol] Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Experimental 10MN Afterburner I Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [Empty High slot] Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Garde II x3 Warrior II x5 Hammerhead II x2 Garde II x2 You have about 16 minutes of cap running nothing but your reppers. Which you will only need to do briefly on the final waves. Reps about 350 so you should be ok. Damage is mostly in your drones but its still good for about 390dps which is enough to run 1's and 2's. Only run the burner when you need it. Just slowboat along the rest of the time. That's the same tank setup I run on my Harb so you can easily drop the damage control/a resist mod for another damage mod, remember you can speed tank the BSs even in a propless BC.
bloodknight2 Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS 64	Posted - 2013.03.14 02:40:00 - [17] - Quote An ab fit zealot do c1 and c2 very easily. Never tried c3
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 130	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:11:00 - [18] - Quote bloodknight2 wrote: An ab fit zealot do c1 and c2 very easily. Never tried c3 Zealot is really fun for C2s and efficient as well, but it costs alot more than a BC and the difference in performance between a Harb and a Zealot isn't very big and as you're in a WH, you can lose your Zealot at any time. You get better gun dps, range and speed on a Zealot but the Harb has more max dps and half the time spent doing C2s is shooting BS as those have huge tanks so they end up evening out quite close.
Uppsy Daisy 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 157	Posted - 2013.03.14 12:08:00 - [19] - Quote Riot Rick was doing C3's in Zealots and Legions a couple of years ago. His fits (and youtube) are: ZEALOT http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/22002-Zealot-Class-3-Sleepers.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNTaP4Iamcg LEGION http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25568-Legion-Legion-C3-Sleepers.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU8skYahZ-c I think he had some success with a Legion in C4s, but they will be very hard. I found his blog post in the archives, it is not live anymore. http://web.archive.org/web/20110202085431/http://www.schippersnet.nl/2009/08/02/solo-class-4-wormhole/
Inkarr Hashur Sine Nobilitatis 249	Posted - 2013.03.14 14:54:00 - [20] - Quote Its kind of crazy that he had to throw buffer on a repping ship just to give himself some breathing room.
Aldrex Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.14 15:09:00 - [21] - Quote I appreciate the builds, and I might try out the Zealot/Prophecy builds (incidentally why not the Sacrilege?), but I tend to pull towards the harbinger as my ship of choice (old habits die hard I suppose) for BC level ships. So... I was messing with a builder and came up with this (I know this is a rough build with probably tons of room for improvement): [Harbinger] [High Slots] Heavy Beam Laser II - Imperial Navy Standard M Heavy Beam Laser II - Imperial Navy Standard M Heavy Beam Laser II - Imperial Navy Standard M Heavy Beam Laser II - Imperial Navy Standard M Heavy Beam Laser II - Imperial Navy Standard M Heavy Beam Laser II - Imperial Navy Standard M Core Probe Launcher I [Med Slots] Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II [Low Slots] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Shield Flux Coil II Shield Flux Coil II Co-Processor II Tracking Enhancer II [Rigs] Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Purger I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I [Drones] Hammerhead II x 5 Salvage Drone I x 5 This is cap stable with 410.4 dps, 48km range, 33607 EHP, and 68.6 hp/s passive shield. One major flaw I potentially see initially with this build is that it's slow (187.5 m/s) and has a large sig radius (399). I don't know if it's tank is enough for C3's as I'm not sure exactly how much dps I should expect from one (I've seen people say 300 dps, but then post fits with only ~40 hp/s repping, so not sure how much rep I need also considering the ~40 hp/s was probably with speed/sig tanking). The dps should be enough as I've seen people saying you only need about 320 dps to do c3's in roughly 15 mins. https://null-sec.com/hangar/?dna=24696:31718;1:31802;1:31790;1:2364;2:1256;2:3888;1:1999;1:3841;3:2281;1:3025;6:17938;1:23097;6:2185;5: I'm obviously open to feedback on this and the viability of a Harbinger.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1215	Posted - 2013.03.14 15:35:00 - [22] - Quote Honestly I doubt that Harby would work. A friend of mine and I lived in a C3 awhile. He would solo C3 sites in this legion: It had a 454 DPS omnitank. I know it worked, but I also know he would occasionally overheat his tank in some sites. [Legion, C3 farmer] Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Imperial Navy Energized Thermic Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized EM Membrane Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Large Capacitor Battery II Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Medium Nanobot Accelerator I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst Legion Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Inkarr Hashur Sine Nobilitatis 249	Posted - 2013.03.14 16:22:00 - [23] - Quote Uppsy Daisy wrote: Riot Rick was doing C3's in Zealots and Legions a couple of years ago. His fits (and youtube) are: ZEALOT http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/22002-Zealot-Class-3-Sleepers.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNTaP4Iamcg LEGION http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25568-Legion-Legion-C3-Sleepers.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU8skYahZ-c I think he had some success with a Legion in C4s, but they will be very hard. I found his blog post in the archives, it is not live anymore. http://web.archive.org/web/20110202085431/http://www.schippersnet.nl/2009/08/02/solo-class-4-wormhole/ That was before neuts were fixed though, right?
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1215	Posted - 2013.03.14 16:32:00 - [24] - Quote Inkarr Hashur wrote: Uppsy Daisy wrote: Riot Rick was doing C3's in Zealots and Legions a couple of years ago. His fits (and youtube) are: ZEALOT http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/22002-Zealot-Class-3-Sleepers.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNTaP4Iamcg LEGION http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/25568-Legion-Legion-C3-Sleepers.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU8skYahZ-c I think he had some success with a Legion in C4s, but they will be very hard. I found his blog post in the archives, it is not live anymore. http://web.archive.org/web/20110202085431/http://www.schippersnet.nl/2009/08/02/solo-class-4-wormhole/ Pretty sure that is a yes. That was before neuts were fixed though, right?
Aldrex Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.14 20:02:00 - [25] - Quote So what stats does a ship need for c3 wh's?
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1219	Posted - 2013.03.14 20:12:00 - [26] - Quote Aldrex wrote: So what stats does a ship need for c3 wh's? Did you miss my post above?
Aldrex Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2013.03.14 20:16:00 - [27] - Quote Derath Ellecon wrote: Aldrex wrote: So what stats does a ship need for c3 wh's? Did you miss my post above? I saw builds... though I seem to have missed where you posted requisite stats for a c3 WH...
Georgina Parmala Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2013.03.14 22:04:00 - [28] - Quote http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=WormholeSpaceClass3 For C3 anomalies you need to be able to tank ~600 DPS long enough to thin out incoming DPS on a new spawn. Something like 400DPS sustained tank beyond that. Last wave on an outpost frontier will do 740 DPS. Do not try to perma omni tank 740 DPS. It's ok to warp and come back. The exception is Fortification Frontier Stronghold - if you kill the preserver on wave 3 and warp out the entire site will despawn. Move straight to the spawn point when you start the site and burn down the BS. If you have trouble getting optimal range kill the upholder cruiser first (webs and neuts). Sometimes you will be double webbed so can't count on speed tanking it and you have to be able to sustain it through approximately a medium neut pressuring your cap in some sites. Once you get comfortable you will find you can start stripping some cap mods or thinning out tank for more gank. Clearing faster is not just an isk/hr thing, the less time you spend at it the less time for someone to find and gank you.
Dato Koppla Rage of Inferno Malefic Motives 130	Posted - 2013.03.14 23:07:00 - [29] - Quote With the neut changes using a Zealot in C3s is pretty dicey, in RiotRicks video he bleeds into structure a little when he has 1 web on him, in sites with more webs/neuts you'll really be cutting it close. You should stick with a T3 or a BS (haven't used a BS personally but I hear people use them) for C3s. For C2s the Zealot is an amazing ship and you can run a 600+ dps gank fit and still have a comfortable tank.
Derath Ellecon Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal 1219	Posted - 2013.03.14 23:29:00 - [30] - Quote Aldrex wrote: Derath Ellecon wrote: Aldrex wrote: So what stats does a ship need for c3 wh's? Did you miss my post above? I saw builds... though I seem to have missed where you posted requisite stats for a c3 WH... I showed a build and said it worked solo in a C3, with maybe the occasional rapper overheat. Copy build, paste into eft, set omni damage, look at stats.

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