EVE Search - Reduce Thoraxes bay to 100m3


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Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:27:00 - [1] Ok...lets nerf the thorax as its way overpowered.. But, in doing so can we nerf the following ships as well, to bring them in line. Maller - This ship can beat a thorax, so its clearly overpowered. All Interceptors - All of these are far to overpowered as they can beat all ships bigger then them in groups and in some cases solo. All Assault Frigs - By the logic found here in this thread, because AF's can beat cruisers solo they are far too over powered.. more so the gisti harpy.. (either nerf the ship or change it so it can't fit such an overpowered item.) The Arbitrator - It makes no sence that this ship has a drone bay of 150, being as the Gallente are supposed to be the main drone race. The Typhoon's drone bay - thats far too big. See its easy to spot what ships are overpowered if you go looking for it, it seems that its only in the last two months that someone lost his ship to a plated rax, and is crying about it. The problem isn't the drone bay its the oversized plate. (tbh, this cry for nerfing the thorax has come about since the missle patch.) Before that the rax was fine, not a peep of people wanting it nerfed.. oh and the rax did get a drone bay nerf after the cruisers got their second bonus.. iirc, it was from 2500 to 2000 (in todays figures 250 to 200) strange that back then it was deemed that the rax should be able to use at least 8 heavy drones.. Oh and one other smaller point, whatever increases you give to the thorax.. your going to have to give them to the deimos. (but hey... i don't mind about that.) (speeling punctuation and grammer.. may or may not be present in this post as its silly o'clock in the morning.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.24 03:27:00 - [2] Ok...lets nerf the thorax as its way overpowered.. But, in doing so can we nerf the following ships as well, to bring them in line. Maller - This ship can beat a thorax, so its clearly overpowered. All Interceptors - All of these are far to overpowered as they can beat all ships bigger then them in groups and in some cases solo. All Assault Frigs - By the logic found here in this thread, because AF's can beat cruisers solo they are far too over powered.. more so the gisti harpy.. (either nerf the ship or change it so it can't fit such an overpowered item.) The Arbitrator - It makes no sence that this ship has a drone bay of 150, being as the Gallente are supposed to be the main drone race. The Typhoon's drone bay - thats far too big. See its easy to spot what ships are overpowered if you go looking for it, it seems that its only in the last two months that someone lost his ship to a plated rax, and is crying about it. The problem isn't the drone bay its the oversized plate. (tbh, this cry for nerfing the thorax has come about since the missle patch.) Before that the rax was fine, not a peep of people wanting it nerfed.. oh and the rax did get a drone bay nerf after the cruisers got their second bonus.. iirc, it was from 2500 to 2000 (in todays figures 250 to 200) strange that back then it was deemed that the rax should be able to use at least 8 heavy drones.. Oh and one other smaller point, whatever increases you give to the thorax.. your going to have to give them to the deimos. (but hey... i don't mind about that.) (speeling punctuation and grammer.. may or may not be present in this post as its silly o'clock in the morning.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 05:00:00 - [3] Originally by: Garreck bangs head on desk, screaming /me pets Garreck No matter how many times you point out things, their not going to listen.. electro is still crying about the missle changes and wants everyone else to suffer also he has freely admitted he hasn't done any pvp of TQ. And when you presnt him with any form of argument, he ignores it or picks out tiny bits to try and argue against. And W0lverine is just jumping on any bandwagon he can find.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 05:00:00 - [4] Originally by: Garreck bangs head on desk, screaming /me pets Garreck No matter how many times you point out things, their not going to listen.. electro is still crying about the missle changes and wants everyone else to suffer also he has freely admitted he hasn't done any pvp of TQ. And when you presnt him with any form of argument, he ignores it or picks out tiny bits to try and argue against. And W0lverine is just jumping on any bandwagon he can find.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 05:18:00 - [5] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK BOO HOO... i will throw my toys around Yes we have all heard the little story of yours, funny how both sides don't match up.. but thats for a different forum. And i have put some valid point across in the past, but you always ignore little bits to argue against. As for an idiot, yep... but i can still beat a plate rax with its 8 heavies in a maller. You fail to understand the problem isn't the rax, its the plate.. another example is the plate claw.. An assault frig, is supposed to be the bane of the interceptor .. yet the plate claw, can beat most AF's have a watch of DrunkenOne's Jagerbomb videos.. now watch those, and understand.. that the plate is the problem.. not the rax.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 05:18:00 - [6] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK BOO HOO... i will throw my toys around Yes we have all heard the little story of yours, funny how both sides don't match up.. but thats for a different forum. And i have put some valid point across in the past, but you always ignore little bits to argue against. As for an idiot, yep... but i can still beat a plate rax with its 8 heavies in a maller. You fail to understand the problem isn't the rax, its the plate.. another example is the plate claw.. An assault frig, is supposed to be the bane of the interceptor .. yet the plate claw, can beat most AF's have a watch of DrunkenOne's Jagerbomb videos.. now watch those, and understand.. that the plate is the problem.. not the rax.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 05:24:00 - [7] Originally by: W0lverine I'm pretty sure that I fly rax more then you do, so I know what I'm talking about A year ago, i would have said i doub't it.. this day and age.. you might do.. being as i tend to fly 4 ships.. thats the enyo, ishtar deimos.. and my 125mm railgun II + 1600mm plate rax.. and i will freely admit, that the plate is what makes it overpowered.. but you remove the plate, and the rax becomes even easier to kill.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 05:24:00 - [8] Originally by: W0lverine I'm pretty sure that I fly rax more then you do, so I know what I'm talking about A year ago, i would have said i doub't it.. this day and age.. you might do.. being as i tend to fly 4 ships.. thats the enyo, ishtar deimos.. and my 125mm railgun II + 1600mm plate rax.. and i will freely admit, that the plate is what makes it overpowered.. but you remove the plate, and the rax becomes even easier to kill.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 06:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Garreck You more or less made my case here. Fix the 1600mm plate. Then the thorax loses its durability. The thorax benefits most from the 1600mm plate...but it also has the most to lose. I beseech all of you: test shooting at a non-plated, mwding thorax. Seriously. Everybody is hung up on the 1600mm plate durability issue here...nobody seems to appreciate just how fragile a non-plated mwd-ing thorax is. You'll understand why no real thorax pilot wants their drones taken away: the damage output is NEEDED. That is the nature of a thorax. Plate needs looked into. Drones do not. This is the key point thats been brought up, time and time again.. but its ignored, as people are too blinkered by the large drone bay. Plates and to some degree sheild extenders have to be fixed.. Once this is done, many ships that seem overpowered, will be sorted out.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.25 06:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Garreck You more or less made my case here. Fix the 1600mm plate. Then the thorax loses its durability. The thorax benefits most from the 1600mm plate...but it also has the most to lose. I beseech all of you: test shooting at a non-plated, mwding thorax. Seriously. Everybody is hung up on the 1600mm plate durability issue here...nobody seems to appreciate just how fragile a non-plated mwd-ing thorax is. You'll understand why no real thorax pilot wants their drones taken away: the damage output is NEEDED. That is the nature of a thorax. Plate needs looked into. Drones do not. This is the key point thats been brought up, time and time again.. but its ignored, as people are too blinkered by the large drone bay. Plates and to some degree sheild extenders have to be fixed.. Once this is done, many ships that seem overpowered, will be sorted out.

Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.29 22:34:00 - [11] Originally by: HippoKing can we go through a thread about the dronebay without mentioning plates please ok, the thorax is the only one thats main firepower is unaffected by plates, but that is as far as plates really come into this even without plates taken into account, the thorax firepower still slaughters and t1 crusier out there it has a bigger drone bay than the battlecruiser, the dedicated drone carrier and every other race's battleships (same as geddon) go figure Em, no... the plates are the problem. why? because with out the plate a rax isn't as strong as you all seem to think your so fixated on the drone bay to realise that an unplated rax is like tissue. Whats next... the nerfing of the ishtar? because you can use 15 T2 heavy drones.. that puts that also into major battleship firepower? Well we already have people calling out for the nerfing of the zealot.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.29 22:34:00 - [12] Originally by: HippoKing can we go through a thread about the dronebay without mentioning plates please ok, the thorax is the only one thats main firepower is unaffected by plates, but that is as far as plates really come into this even without plates taken into account, the thorax firepower still slaughters and t1 crusier out there it has a bigger drone bay than the battlecruiser, the dedicated drone carrier and every other race's battleships (same as geddon) go figure Em, no... the plates are the problem. why? because with out the plate a rax isn't as strong as you all seem to think your so fixated on the drone bay to realise that an unplated rax is like tissue. Whats next... the nerfing of the ishtar? because you can use 15 T2 heavy drones.. that puts that also into major battleship firepower? Well we already have people calling out for the nerfing of the zealot.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.29 23:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Meridius The Thorax was overpowered before plates got boosted, it was the top cruiser before and it still is. Strange that... being as before the exo patch.. when someone would ask for a set up for the rax, the most common answer was.. "fit 2 x miner 2's as thats all its good for." or can i do lvl 3 missions in a rax. you would get the answer "No... get a caracal or fly a dura-maller.. as a rax sucks at anything other then mining." But since some bright spark started fitting oversized plates to it, it started to become very effective in pvp, you would get a few complaints from new players that they got killed by rax.. but since the missle update, the people feel the need to kill off one of the better cruisers. But when its all said and done, the oversized plate problem will remain and people will remain blinkered to the problem of the plates.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.29 23:04:00 - [14] Edited by: Ravenge on 30/08/2005 00:00:42 Originally by: Meridius The Thorax was overpowered before plates got boosted, it was the top cruiser before and it still is. Strange that... being as before the exo patch.. when someone would ask for a set up for the rax, the most common answer was.. "fit 5 x miner 2's as thats all its good for." or can i do lvl 3 missions in a rax. you would get the answer "No... get a caracal or fly a dura-maller.. as a rax sucks at anything other then mining." But since some bright spark started fitting oversized plates to it, it started to become very effective in pvp, you would get a few complaints from new players that they got killed by rax.. but since the missle update, the people feel the need to kill off one of the better cruisers. But when its all said and done, the oversized plate problem will remain and people will remain blinkered to the problem of the plates. Edit: 5 x miner 2's not 2 x miner 5's ...lol
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 01:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Bottled Brain The platerax is old and only got boosted by the plate changes. Here is an old Thorax thread: Balthial's Blasterax Testing Results Part I The Thorax is one of the few cruiser that was always used in pvp because of her dronebay. The existance of the platerax has nothing to do with the recent changes. Yep, thats about the time people started to realise more could be done with the rax, then fitting miner 2's ... pretty much in the same way, that the brutix has gone from being called the worst BC in the game, to something worth getting. But if the trend on the nerf this ship coz its too uber trend continues.. we might be in this same situation defending it from people who want to nerf it.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 01:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Bottled Brain The platerax is old and only got boosted by the plate changes. Here is an old Thorax thread: Balthial's Blasterax Testing Results Part I The Thorax is one of the few cruiser that was always used in pvp because of her dronebay. The existance of the platerax has nothing to do with the recent changes. Yep, thats about the time people started to realise more could be done with the rax, then fitting miner 2's ... pretty much in the same way, that the brutix has gone from being called the worst BC in the game, to something worth getting. But if the trend on the nerf this ship coz its too uber trend continues.. we might be in this same situation defending it from people who want to nerf it.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 01:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Bottled Brain The platerax is old and only got boosted by the plate changes. Here is an old Thorax thread: Balthial's Blasterax Testing Results Part I The Thorax is one of the few cruiser that was always used in pvp because of her dronebay. The existance of the platerax has nothing to do with the recent changes. Yep, thats about the time people started to realise more could be done with the rax, then fitting miner 2's ... pretty much in the same way, that the brutix has gone from being called the worst BC in the game, to something worth getting. But if the trend on the nerf this ship coz its too uber trend continues.. we might be in this same situation defending it from people who want to nerf it.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 02:10:00 - [18] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK In all seriousness, reducing the drone bay simply pulls the Rax down from a ship that can easily do over 250 DPS with a plate fitted to one that does around 180 DPS with a plate fitted. Tell me any other cruiser that can fit a 1600mm plate and still put out that kind of damage at ANY range. First of all take the plate out of the equation.. I know you seem to ignore the posts from people who fly plated raxs who state its the plate that overpowers it. Also define any range.. as no matter how hard i try.. i can't quite get my rax to do 250 dps at 100km, maybe i'm missing something.. at the most a rax is effective up to 20km (unless your running an officer warp scrambler) It would be interesting to see how the 200dps ruppy handles a non plated rax... at lets say since its at ANY range.. starting 30km apart..
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 02:10:00 - [19] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK In all seriousness, reducing the drone bay simply pulls the Rax down from a ship that can easily do over 250 DPS with a plate fitted to one that does around 180 DPS with a plate fitted. Tell me any other cruiser that can fit a 1600mm plate and still put out that kind of damage at ANY range. First of all take the plate out of the equation.. I know you seem to ignore the posts from people who fly plated raxs who state its the plate that overpowers it. Also define any range.. as no matter how hard i try.. i can't quite get my rax to do 250 dps at 100km, maybe i'm missing something.. at the most a rax is effective up to 20km (unless your running an officer warp scrambler) It would be interesting to see how the 200dps ruppy handles a non plated rax... at lets say since its at ANY range.. starting 30km apart..
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 02:10:00 - [20] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK In all seriousness, reducing the drone bay simply pulls the Rax down from a ship that can easily do over 250 DPS with a plate fitted to one that does around 180 DPS with a plate fitted. Tell me any other cruiser that can fit a 1600mm plate and still put out that kind of damage at ANY range. First of all take the plate out of the equation.. I know you seem to ignore the posts from people who fly plated raxs who state its the plate that overpowers it. Also define any range.. as no matter how hard i try.. i can't quite get my rax to do 250 dps at 100km, maybe i'm missing something.. at the most a rax is effective up to 20km (unless your running an officer warp scrambler) It would be interesting to see how the 200dps ruppy handles a non plated rax... at lets say since its at ANY range.. starting 30km apart..

Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 11:56:00 - [21] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK but those peope with 400k skillpoints in Drones, no cruiser and gunnery skills, but still manage to easily outdamage AND outank those much more skilled players in other ships is a definate indicator of a problem. You sir are an idiot, why? for starters you need more then 400k of sps to be able to control 8 drones alone (lvl 5 rank 1 - 256000 and lvl 3 rank 5 - 226275) then you need the rest of the relevent drone skills to get that uber dps from the drones.. then we have the support skills, (hull upgrade lvl 3 at the minimum ... if you want to use hardeners lvl 4) and lets not forget at even at lvl 3 gallente cruiser.. the mwd cap penalty still screws over the rax. If your going to witter on about debates, first of all use fact to back up your argument and not pull random rubbish out of the air and claim its correct. And a little reminder, you claimed the rax could do 250 dps at ANY range.. i pointed out you couldn't so thats another lesson on getting your facts correct before trying to make argument. And an unplated rax dies in less then 10 seconds at 30km from thats 200 dps ruppy.. wow.. the rax isn't as overpowered as you think it is.. like its been said before.. its the oversized plates.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 11:56:00 - [22] Edited by: Ravenge on 30/08/2005 15:48:56 Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK but those peope with 400k skillpoints in Drones, no cruiser and gunnery skills, but still manage to easily outdamage AND outank those much more skilled players in other ships is a definate indicator of a problem. You sir are an idiot, why? for starters you need more then 400k of sps to be able to control 8 drones alone (lvl 5 rank 1 - 256000 and lvl 3 rank 5 - 226275) then you need the rest of the relevent drone skills to get that uber dps from the drones.. Plus having those skills, are irrelevent since you need the cruise skills to be able to field the 8 heavies you like to moan about. So on top of the drone skills you have to add the support skills, (hull upgrade lvl 3 at the minimum ... if you want to use hardeners lvl 4) and lets not forget at even at lvl 3 gallente cruiser.. the mwd cap penalty still screws over the rax. Slowly but surely you start to see the skill points needed rise.. I wouldn't be suprised if you needed more skill points to fly a plated rax, that fields 8 heavies and does 250 dps at close range.. then you needed to fly a pre-patch raven, but thats speculation.. also its worth taking into account the training time needed to get all those skills up.. It would be worth finding out how long it would take a new player to train up all the skills needed.. But remember that if your thing about using the learning skills and advanced learning skills to modify the training times to add them into the time frame.. So if your going to witter on about debates, first of all use fact to back up your argument and not pull random rubbish out of the air and claim its correct. And a little reminder, you claimed the rax could do 250 dps at ANY range.. i pointed out you couldn't so thats another lesson on getting your facts correct before trying to make argument. And an unplated rax dies in less then 10 seconds at 30km from thats 200 dps ruppy.. wow.. the rax isn't as overpowered as you think it is.. like its been said before.. its the oversized plates. Minor edit, to make it read a little better.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 11:56:00 - [23] Edited by: Ravenge on 30/08/2005 15:48:56 Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK but those peope with 400k skillpoints in Drones, no cruiser and gunnery skills, but still manage to easily outdamage AND outank those much more skilled players in other ships is a definate indicator of a problem. You sir are an idiot, why? for starters you need more then 400k of sps to be able to control 8 drones alone (lvl 5 rank 1 - 256000 and lvl 3 rank 5 - 226275) then you need the rest of the relevent drone skills to get that uber dps from the drones.. Plus having those skills, are irrelevent since you need the cruise skills to be able to field the 8 heavies you like to moan about. So on top of the drone skills you have to add the support skills, (hull upgrade lvl 3 at the minimum ... if you want to use hardeners lvl 4) and lets not forget at even at lvl 3 gallente cruiser.. the mwd cap penalty still screws over the rax. Slowly but surely you start to see the skill points needed rise.. I wouldn't be suprised if you needed more skill points to fly a plated rax, that fields 8 heavies and does 250 dps at close range.. then you needed to fly a pre-patch raven, but thats speculation.. also its worth taking into account the training time needed to get all those skills up.. It would be worth finding out how long it would take a new player to train up all the skills needed.. But remember that if your thing about using the learning skills and advanced learning skills to modify the training times to add them into the time frame.. So if your going to witter on about debates, first of all use fact to back up your argument and not pull random rubbish out of the air and claim its correct. And a little reminder, you claimed the rax could do 250 dps at ANY range.. i pointed out you couldn't so thats another lesson on getting your facts correct before trying to make argument. And an unplated rax dies in less then 10 seconds at 30km from thats 200 dps ruppy.. wow.. the rax isn't as overpowered as you think it is.. like its been said before.. its the oversized plates. Minor edit, to make it read a little better.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 18:26:00 - [24] Originally by: Ashelth Anyone else seeing some of the people screaming against nerfing the thorax the same ones screaming to nerf the raven? I am :) Tis funnah I had noticed a few names, but didn't want to say... Originally by: Sorja I had 5 small drones on him while he had 10 heavy drones, for the same guns. 25m¦ dronebay on a Moa for the lose 10.... i belive you mean 8, as a rax can't fit 10 heavy drones.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 18:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Ashelth Anyone else seeing some of the people screaming against nerfing the thorax the same ones screaming to nerf the raven? I am :) Tis funnah I had noticed a few names, but didn't want to say... Originally by: Sorja I had 5 small drones on him while he had 10 heavy drones, for the same guns. 25m¦ dronebay on a Moa for the lose 10.... i belive you mean 8, as a rax can't fit 10 heavy drones.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.08.30 18:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Ashelth Anyone else seeing some of the people screaming against nerfing the thorax the same ones screaming to nerf the raven? I am :) Tis funnah I had noticed a few names, but didn't want to say... Originally by: Sorja I had 5 small drones on him while he had 10 heavy drones, for the same guns. 25m¦ dronebay on a Moa for the lose 10.... i belive you mean 8, as a rax can't fit 10 heavy drones.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.03 23:51:00 - [27] Just a few questions... How long would it take a person to train up to be able to use a rax that does the 169 dps with its drones .. can fit 1600 plates, and use t2 weapons? as the biggest argument is that, a new players can jump into a rax and do all this.. Plus why is it that people like to ignore the whole point that a rax without battleship plate isn't the uber ship they think it is? Once the oversized plate issue is sorted out and (hopefully) becomes a thing of the past, the rax will revert back to a mining role due to being castrated by people who want eve to be a game fought with smacktalk in shuttles. oh and nerf the maller... as its going to be the new overpowered cruiser.. if the rax gets ruined.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.03 23:51:00 - [28] Just a few questions... How long would it take a person to train up to be able to use a rax that does the 169 dps with its drones .. can fit 1600 plates, and use t2 weapons? as the biggest argument is that, a new players can jump into a rax and do all this.. Plus why is it that people like to ignore the whole point that a rax without battleship plate isn't the uber ship they think it is? Once the oversized plate issue is sorted out and (hopefully) becomes a thing of the past, the rax will revert back to a mining role due to being castrated by people who want eve to be a game fought with smacktalk in shuttles. oh and nerf the maller... as its going to be the new overpowered cruiser.. if the rax gets ruined.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.03 23:51:00 - [29] Just a few questions... How long would it take a person to train up to be able to use a rax that does the 169 dps with its drones .. can fit 1600 plates, and use t2 weapons? as the biggest argument is that, a new players can jump into a rax and do all this.. Plus why is it that people like to ignore the whole point that a rax without battleship plate isn't the uber ship they think it is? Once the oversized plate issue is sorted out and (hopefully) becomes a thing of the past, the rax will revert back to a mining role due to being castrated by people who want eve to be a game fought with smacktalk in shuttles. oh and nerf the maller... as its going to be the new overpowered cruiser.. if the rax gets ruined.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 00:52:00 - [30] So, lets say the rax got its drone bay nerf... would it be acceptable for it to gain two extra slots? After all.. the rupture has 14 slots, the Moa has 14 slots, the maller has 15 slots.. and the rax has 13 slots.. that would bring it inline slot wise with the other Tier 3 cruisers. I belive another low slot and maybe a mid slot would balance things out, for the reduction of its drone bay. Then hopefully the oversized plates with be sorted out, and then we can work on the cries of how poor all cruisers are.. then people can be reminded of how a one of the only decent cruisers we had got nerfed.

Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 00:52:00 - [31] So, lets say the rax got its drone bay nerf... would it be acceptable for it to gain two extra slots? After all.. the rupture has 14 slots, the Moa has 14 slots, the maller has 15 slots.. and the rax has 13 slots.. that would bring it inline slot wise with the other Tier 3 cruisers. I belive another low slot and maybe a mid slot would balance things out, for the reduction of its drone bay. Then hopefully the oversized plates with be sorted out, and then we can work on the cries of how poor all cruisers are.. then people can be reminded of how a one of the only decent cruisers we had got nerfed.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 00:52:00 - [32] So, lets say the rax got its drone bay nerf... would it be acceptable for it to gain two extra slots? After all.. the rupture has 14 slots, the Moa has 14 slots, the maller has 15 slots.. and the rax has 13 slots.. that would bring it inline slot wise with the other Tier 3 cruisers. I belive another low slot and maybe a mid slot would balance things out, for the reduction of its drone bay. Then hopefully the oversized plates with be sorted out, and then we can work on the cries of how poor all cruisers are.. then people can be reminded of how a one of the only decent cruisers we had got nerfed.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 02:25:00 - [33] Originally by: Garreck Edited by: Garreck on 05/09/2005 02:05:20 Insane. Nobody is even considering how fragile the thorax is without plate. All of those beautiful calculations took into account battleship plate and small turrets, which is what makes the thorax so insanely powerful...not the drones. Yes, it will maintain a high damage output; but it will be far easier to put down without the plate. Nobody wants to even try it out. Thorax has to cross the full distance to its target to do damage. Thorax without plate is paper thin. It has high damage output to make up for both of those factors. And yes, I still maintain that the thorax is the drone boat, not the vexor. I've no idea where that idea came into effect. The thorax ship description says it is. Furthermore, the thorax has always had more drone space. But the vexor is the primary drone carrier because you guys say so? I'm not convinced. Garreck, its no point in trying to convice them that.. they are so set in their minds that the rax is uber because of the drones and fail to see that it is the plates that are the problem. Even when it slaps them in the face.. the rax isn't just affected by the oversized plates.. the claw is too. All we can hope for is that if the bay is reduced, us rax pilots get our 2 extra slots in return. (and for the record, i agree with what you say.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 02:25:00 - [34] Originally by: Garreck Edited by: Garreck on 05/09/2005 02:05:20 Insane. Nobody is even considering how fragile the thorax is without plate. All of those beautiful calculations took into account battleship plate and small turrets, which is what makes the thorax so insanely powerful...not the drones. Yes, it will maintain a high damage output; but it will be far easier to put down without the plate. Nobody wants to even try it out. Thorax has to cross the full distance to its target to do damage. Thorax without plate is paper thin. It has high damage output to make up for both of those factors. And yes, I still maintain that the thorax is the drone boat, not the vexor. I've no idea where that idea came into effect. The thorax ship description says it is. Furthermore, the thorax has always had more drone space. But the vexor is the primary drone carrier because you guys say so? I'm not convinced. Garreck, its no point in trying to convice them that.. they are so set in their minds that the rax is uber because of the drones and fail to see that it is the plates that are the problem. Even when it slaps them in the face.. the rax isn't just affected by the oversized plates.. the claw is too. All we can hope for is that if the bay is reduced, us rax pilots get our 2 extra slots in return. (and for the record, i agree with what you say.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 02:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Garreck Edited by: Garreck on 05/09/2005 02:05:20 Insane. Nobody is even considering how fragile the thorax is without plate. All of those beautiful calculations took into account battleship plate and small turrets, which is what makes the thorax so insanely powerful...not the drones. Yes, it will maintain a high damage output; but it will be far easier to put down without the plate. Nobody wants to even try it out. Thorax has to cross the full distance to its target to do damage. Thorax without plate is paper thin. It has high damage output to make up for both of those factors. And yes, I still maintain that the thorax is the drone boat, not the vexor. I've no idea where that idea came into effect. The thorax ship description says it is. Furthermore, the thorax has always had more drone space. But the vexor is the primary drone carrier because you guys say so? I'm not convinced. Garreck, its no point in trying to convice them that.. they are so set in their minds that the rax is uber because of the drones and fail to see that it is the plates that are the problem. Even when it slaps them in the face.. the rax isn't just affected by the oversized plates.. the claw is too. All we can hope for is that if the bay is reduced, us rax pilots get our 2 extra slots in return. (and for the record, i agree with what you say.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 03:17:00 - [36] Originally by: Naughty Boy You didn't actually do anything to convince anybody, how could we be convinced ? I'm sorry, but jou just keep repeating that without any kind of reasoning to back you up, and i find this highly disturbing. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I'm sorry, if lack the basic understand that oversized plates are the problem.. i guess that you do indeed have evidence that some people can write but can read.. we only have to look up many of your posts.. hmmm now thats highly disturbing.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 03:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Naughty Boy You didn't actually do anything to convince anybody, how could we be convinced ? I'm sorry, but jou just keep repeating that without any kind of reasoning to back you up, and i find this highly disturbing. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I'm sorry, if lack the basic understand that oversized plates are the problem.. i guess that you do indeed have evidence that some people can write but can read.. we only have to look up many of your posts.. hmmm now thats highly disturbing.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 03:17:00 - [38] Originally by: Naughty Boy You didn't actually do anything to convince anybody, how could we be convinced ? I'm sorry, but jou just keep repeating that without any kind of reasoning to back you up, and i find this highly disturbing. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. I'm sorry, if lack the basic understand that oversized plates are the problem.. i guess that you do indeed have evidence that some people can write but can read.. we only have to look up many of your posts.. hmmm now thats highly disturbing.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 13:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Naughty Boy What exactly do i have to read, or where exactly do you prove your point ? A link, or even a post number will be enough, thank you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 05/09/2005 04:13:02 Please explain to me how a Thorax without a plate is any weaker than any OTHER cruiser without a plate? It has 2025 HP compared to the average 2050 that other lvl 3 Cruisers have. Not to mention it does the majority of its damage through its drones and thus can easily use those 5 low slots for tanking while still having ridiculous damage output. Maybe its because it has the lowest amount of slots then eany other tier 3 cruiser, could be that the guns intended for it are too cap hungry and intensive and it could be that since its supposed to be the ulitmate in close range cruisers, that it can't tank for anything. and so on.. so i ask you.. if the drone bay was reduced, would it be acceptable for the rax to get 2 extra slots, as that would bring it inline with the maller.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 13:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Naughty Boy What exactly do i have to read, or where exactly do you prove your point ? A link, or even a post number will be enough, thank you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 05/09/2005 04:13:02 Please explain to me how a Thorax without a plate is any weaker than any OTHER cruiser without a plate? It has 2025 HP compared to the average 2050 that other lvl 3 Cruisers have. Not to mention it does the majority of its damage through its drones and thus can easily use those 5 low slots for tanking while still having ridiculous damage output. Maybe its because it has the lowest amount of slots then eany other tier 3 cruiser, could be that the guns intended for it are too cap hungry and intensive and it could be that since its supposed to be the ulitmate in close range cruisers, that it can't tank for anything. and so on.. so i ask you.. if the drone bay was reduced, would it be acceptable for the rax to get 2 extra slots, as that would bring it inline with the maller.

Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 13:21:00 - [41] Originally by: Naughty Boy What exactly do i have to read, or where exactly do you prove your point ? A link, or even a post number will be enough, thank you. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. There are plenty of posts that illustrate the oversized plate problem and several videos.. some have been brought up in this very thread.. but you just ignored them, in favour of trying to shout down other post... so follow your own siggys advice and do some reading to find them. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 05/09/2005 04:13:02 Please explain to me how a Thorax without a plate is any weaker than any OTHER cruiser without a plate? It has 2025 HP compared to the average 2050 that other lvl 3 Cruisers have. Not to mention it does the majority of its damage through its drones and thus can easily use those 5 low slots for tanking while still having ridiculous damage output. Maybe its because it has the lowest amount of slots then eany other tier 3 cruiser, could be that the guns intended for it are too cap hungry and intensive and it could be that since its supposed to be the ulitmate in close range cruisers, that it can't tank for anything. and so on.. so i ask you.. if the drone bay was reduced, would it be acceptable for the rax to get 2 extra slots, as that would bring it inline with the maller.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 17:41:00 - [42] Edited by: Ravenge on 05/09/2005 17:55:17 Originally by: Naughty Boy ......... Sorry try again... 800mm is still oversized plates no matter what you try and say.. seems that your the hard headed one who can't admit he's wrong on the whole plate issue. 1600mm and 800mm are battleship plates... now say it with me.. battleship plates. 50mm and 100mm are frigate plates. 200mm and 400mm are cruiser plates 800mm and 1600mm are battleship plates .. see its not bull and its easy to understand. And what you fail to see that getting gallente cruiser 3 alone doesn't automatically allow you to control 8 drones pump out large dps just from them while fitting uber plating with running a massive tank. but you just can't open your eyes and see passed the drones ...try it, and maybe you might just learn something. Also you might.. (well anything is possible.) to suddenly realise that the rax is beatable and with out its plating its not that uber, and that the problem has always been the oversized plates.. but hey, if the drone bays get reduced.. i hope to get my 2 extra slots in return.. after thats a very fair trade off. a low slot and a med slot would be just right. That way everyone is happy.. the drone bay gets reduced and those crying nerf get what they want.. and the extra slots brings the rax inline with maller and the other tier 3 cruisers. and us rax pilots get something..
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.05 17:41:00 - [43] Edited by: Ravenge on 05/09/2005 17:55:17 Originally by: Naughty Boy ......... Sorry try again... 800mm is still oversized plates no matter what you try and say.. seems that your the hard headed one who can't admit he's wrong on the whole plate issue. 1600mm and 800mm are battleship plates... now say it with me.. battleship plates. 50mm and 100mm are frigate plates. 200mm and 400mm are cruiser plates 800mm and 1600mm are battleship plates .. see its not bull and its easy to understand. And what you fail to see that getting gallente cruiser 3 alone doesn't automatically allow you to control 8 drones pump out large dps just from them while fitting uber plating with running a massive tank. but you just can't open your eyes and see passed the drones ...try it, and maybe you might just learn something. Also you might.. (well anything is possible.) to suddenly realise that the rax is beatable and with out its plating its not that uber, and that the problem has always been the oversized plates.. but hey, if the drone bays get reduced.. i hope to get my 2 extra slots in return.. after thats a very fair trade off. a low slot and a med slot would be just right. That way everyone is happy.. the drone bay gets reduced and those crying nerf get what they want.. and the extra slots brings the rax inline with maller and the other tier 3 cruisers. and us rax pilots get something..
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:22:00 - [44] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. 169 free dps... come now, stop making things up... to get that 169 dps.. you need heavy drones skill at lvl 4, drones skill and level 5 and drone interfacing at lvl 3... Flying a rax doesn't give you this instant damage you need to train those skills up first. Plus if the oversized plate issue gets sorted out, you won't have to worry too much about the big bad thorax.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:22:00 - [45] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 06/09/2005 01:11:06 Nobody is saying its a win button we're saying it has way too many advantages and too few disadvantages. It can fit out with a tank while still doing twice the DPS of other cruisers just through its drones. No other Tier 1 cruiser can manage that. 100m3 drone bay simply puts the Rax more in place when it comes to advantages versus disadvantages. 169 free DPS with no fitting penalty is pretty stupid. 85 free DPS is more reasonable. That's still the damage output of a typical T1 Cruiser. In addition to that the pilot can still choose to have over 5k HP with a plate and add 95 more DPS through light Neutron blasters or over 150 DPS with heavy blasters and damage mods. Thats a more reasonable tradeoff. 169 free dps... come now, stop making things up... to get that 169 dps.. you need heavy drones skill at lvl 4, drones skill and level 5 and drone interfacing at lvl 3... Flying a rax doesn't give you this instant damage you need to train those skills up first. Plus if the oversized plate issue gets sorted out, you won't have to worry too much about the big bad thorax.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:31:00 - [46] Originally by: Naughty Boy .............. Tut tut... not following the advice in your own signature again. Remember read first then write.. This is why you miss out on so many little snippits of information and you just can't get over the fact that 800mm is battleship plate now can you? So no matter how much you call it bull, the fact of the matter is its the low end battleship plate now deal with it. I guess you will never understand, that the rax isn't as uber as you keep going on about. But how about commenting on this.. if the rax gets its drone bay nerfed.. would it be fair to say that it gets two extra slots, to bring it inline with the other tier 3 cruisers? (to recap two of them have 14 slots and 1 has 15 .. the rax only has 13, by giving it 2 slots it will fill the role of the missing 15 slot tier 3 cruiser.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:31:00 - [47] Originally by: Naughty Boy .............. Tut tut... not following the advice in your own signature again. Remember read first then write.. This is why you miss out on so many little snippits of information and you just can't get over the fact that 800mm is battleship plate now can you? So no matter how much you call it bull, the fact of the matter is its the low end battleship plate now deal with it. I guess you will never understand, that the rax isn't as uber as you keep going on about. But how about commenting on this.. if the rax gets its drone bay nerfed.. would it be fair to say that it gets two extra slots, to bring it inline with the other tier 3 cruisers? (to recap two of them have 14 slots and 1 has 15 .. the rax only has 13, by giving it 2 slots it will fill the role of the missing 15 slot tier 3 cruiser.)
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:35:00 - [48] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Thats hardly difficult to get. Especially when you dont have to worry about any gunnery or missile skills to achieve that DPS. Keep going as your uber set up needs a little more then drone skills.. you can't fit 1600 mm plate and active hardeners with just lvl 3 gallente cruiser and drone skills. your looking at a couple of months training to get the uber tanking and dps you keep spouting about.. maybe a bit less if you train the learning skills... but you also have to add them to the training time.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:35:00 - [49] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Thats hardly difficult to get. Especially when you dont have to worry about any gunnery or missile skills to achieve that DPS. Keep going as your uber set up needs a little more then drone skills.. you can't fit 1600 mm plate and active hardeners with just lvl 3 gallente cruiser and drone skills. your looking at a couple of months training to get the uber tanking and dps you keep spouting about.. maybe a bit less if you train the learning skills... but you also have to add them to the training time.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:41:00 - [50] Originally by: Naughty Boy Typical response. Well, with that i guess you can't answer me.. so well the reason for you crying on this post amounts to ... well nothing. Being as you never read a post fully, and pick at little bits to try and proved you failed point. I'm sorry if you couldn't understand simple things.. and well i really hoped that you did follow the supposed advice you tried to give in your siggy.. but i guess you couldn't even do that. Ahhh well, soon you will have something else to cry about.. some other ship will to overpowered and you will jump on that bradishing your nerf this banner.

Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Naughty Boy Typical response. Well, with that i guess you can't answer me.. so well the reason for you crying on this post amounts to ... well nothing. Being as you never read a post fully, and pick at little bits to try and proved you failed point. I'm sorry if you couldn't understand simple things.. and well i really hoped that you did follow the supposed advice you tried to give in your siggy.. but i guess you couldn't even do that. Ahhh well, soon you will have something else to cry about.. some other ship will to overpowered and you will jump on that bradishing your nerf this banner.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 01:41:00 - [52] Originally by: Naughty Boy Typical response. Well, with that i guess you can't answer me.. so well the reason for you crying on this post amounts to ... well nothing. Being as you never read a post fully, and pick at little bits to try and proved you failed point. I'm sorry if you couldn't understand simple things.. and well i really hoped that you did follow the supposed advice you tried to give in your siggy.. but i guess you couldn't even do that. Ahhh well, soon you will have something else to cry about.. some other ship will to overpowered and you will jump on that bradishing your nerf this banner.
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 02:09:00 - [53] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Dude, you're being ridiculous. You need Hull Upgrades 3 and Mechanic I for a 1600mm plate. You don't even need medium turret skills because you're fitting frigate blasters. Heavy Drones 5 is 226k SP and Heavy Drones 4 is 226k SP. Drone Interfacing 3 is what, 45k SP? Heck, you can still pull 160 DPS out of a Thorax's drones using only Heavy Drones 3, so you can manage it all with about 320k SP in Drones. Compare that to the amount of work you need to put into Missile or Gunnery skills. Use your head man. With only a few hundred SP a Rax easily surpasses any other cruiser with the same amount of invested skills. Oh i am using my head... shame you haven't noticed the skill ranks involved the training times and so on... let alone that a rax using the bare minumum skills is a dead.. 1600mm plate or not.. as it won't have the cap after mwd'ing to its target to run its tank. Oh and just one question... have you seen what 4 medium drones do to a heavy drone? quite suprising the results you get from them...
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 02:09:00 - [54] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Dude, you're being ridiculous. You need Hull Upgrades 3 and Mechanic I for a 1600mm plate. You don't even need medium turret skills because you're fitting frigate blasters. Heavy Drones 5 is 226k SP and Heavy Drones 4 is 226k SP. Drone Interfacing 3 is what, 45k SP? Heck, you can still pull 160 DPS out of a Thorax's drones using only Heavy Drones 3, so you can manage it all with about 320k SP in Drones. Compare that to the amount of work you need to put into Missile or Gunnery skills. Use your head man. With only a few hundred SP a Rax easily surpasses any other cruiser with the same amount of invested skills. Oh i am using my head... shame you haven't noticed the skill ranks involved the training times and so on... let alone that a rax using the bare minumum skills is a dead.. 1600mm plate or not.. as it won't have the cap after mwd'ing to its target to run its tank. Oh and just one question... have you seen what 4 medium drones do to a heavy drone? quite suprising the results you get from them...
Ravenge	Posted - 2005.09.06 02:09:00 - [55] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Dude, you're being ridiculous. You need Hull Upgrades 3 and Mechanic I for a 1600mm plate. You don't even need medium turret skills because you're fitting frigate blasters. Heavy Drones 5 is 226k SP and Heavy Drones 4 is 226k SP. Drone Interfacing 3 is what, 45k SP? Heck, you can still pull 160 DPS out of a Thorax's drones using only Heavy Drones 3, so you can manage it all with about 320k SP in Drones. Compare that to the amount of work you need to put into Missile or Gunnery skills. Use your head man. With only a few hundred SP a Rax easily surpasses any other cruiser with the same amount of invested skills. Oh i am using my head... shame you haven't noticed the skill ranks involved the training times and so on... let alone that a rax using the bare minumum skills is a dead.. 1600mm plate or not.. as it won't have the cap after mwd'ing to its target to run its tank. Oh and just one question... have you seen what 4 medium drones do to a heavy drone? quite suprising the results you get from them...

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