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Russo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:04:00 -
[1]
Why not make an ammo that does less damage but increases the signature radius of a target for missiles?
So interceptor could light up the target and the ravens and missile ships could pwn it. Or the raven could mount some 250mm railguns and paint its own target without having to fit a target painter, or in addition to target painter...
Or it could just be a very very noticeable shot that will allow commanders on both sides of a fleet battle to see who is shooting what exactly.
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia
XL pod for an XL personality
'Russo, what exactly do you feed your ego to keep it that big?.'
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Russo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:04:00 -
[2]
Why not make an ammo that does less damage but increases the signature radius of a target for missiles?
So interceptor could light up the target and the ravens and missile ships could pwn it. Or the raven could mount some 250mm railguns and paint its own target without having to fit a target painter, or in addition to target painter...
Or it could just be a very very noticeable shot that will allow commanders on both sides of a fleet battle to see who is shooting what exactly.
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia
XL pod for an XL personality
'Russo, what exactly do you feed your ego to keep it that big?.'
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:39:00 -
[3]
Why not just use a target painter?
Besides, mods that increase sig rad unbalance the game and shouldn't exist in the first place.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.23 15:39:00 -
[4]
Why not just use a target painter?
Besides, mods that increase sig rad unbalance the game and shouldn't exist in the first place.
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Russo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 17:28:00 -
[5]
target painter is a waste of a mid slot. tracer ammo is the ****nit biznatch
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia
XL pod for an XL personality
'Russo, what exactly do you feed your ego to keep it that big?.'
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Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.08.23 18:37:00 -
[6]
Think we should stay with target painter. And tracer ammo makes it so you can see where your bullet goes which is already in eve. you're thinking of a homing beacon or some ****zil.
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Com Cam
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Posted - 2005.08.23 18:58:00 -
[7]
Do you really know what "tracer ammo" is, and what it is used for?
A tracer round does the same ammount of damage as a "non-tracer" (ball ammo). Tracers are used to confirm your "point of aim" (every 5th round is a tracer in belted ammo) with a weapon. Tracers can also (if loaded in a magazine fed weapon) be used to tell you when you are at 1/2 a magazine and when you are out of ammo (my personal pref is 2 tracers at 1/2 a magazine and 3 tracers near the end of the magazine with 2 "ball" rounds as the last rounds). Some people I know put a tracer as the 1st round in their magazine with similar load with what I just described. They use the 1st tracer to confirm where their 1st round went as it is all too often that your 1st shot fired will not go where you want it to if you fire in a hurry and in anger.
A tracer will not make it any easier to "see" your target, BUT it can make it easier for your target to see you (they work both ways you know).
From what I have read in the forums and patch notes, the "Target Painter" does what you are looking for with "tracer rounds". I can not 100% confirm how well this works in game as I am not able to log in for now (still loading tracers in my magazines in real life right now). However, I have read that the target painter works fairly well, esp with missiles (not trying to start anything with the missile reference).
This is not intended to be a flame, just a tid-bit of information.
"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
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Com Cam
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Posted - 2005.08.23 19:02:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Russo
target painter is a waste of a mid slot. tracer ammo is the ****nit biznatch
how is a target painter a waste of a mid-slot when it aids you in hitting your target harder for more damage? also, if you do not want to paint your own targets, that is where your support ship (what ever class you wish) would come in (tackel frigs type?)
"Always maintain a rigid state of flexibility"
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Russo
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Posted - 2005.08.23 20:56:00 -
[9]
I know what a real life tracer is used for. But as a fleet commander I often cant tell which one of my guys is shooting at what in the middle of a battle. It would be more of an aid for commanders to see who is being hit hardest by either side. the signature radius suggestions was just to give it a second use.
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia
XL pod for an XL personality
'Russo, what exactly do you feed your ego to keep it that big?.'
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.23 21:26:00 -
[10]
If anyone in your fleet is shooting anything else then the called target you're not much of a commernder. 
The ship on your side that's being shot at is the one that's blowing up right in that instant.
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ManOfHonor
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Posted - 2005.08.23 23:48:00 -
[11]
yeah, if yr ppl shoot what you didnt tell em to shoot, slap his arse an call him primary 
_____________________________
NPC Asteroid Belt Bases
Honor Above Self
Glory For Self
Strength Of Self |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.24 00:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Russo
I know what a real life tracer is used for. But as a fleet commander I often cant tell which one of my guys is shooting at what in the middle of a battle. It would be more of an aid for commanders to see who is being hit hardest by either side. the signature radius suggestions was just to give it a second use.
Turn your turrets and effects off too and reduce lag.
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Skull Bunny
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:55:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Noriath
If anyone in your fleet is shooting anything else then the called target you're not much of a commernder.
The ship on your side that's being shot at is the one that's blowing up right in that instant.
Some times its not ppl in combat disobeying orders, but unable to understand proper english. Or, just to see who is helping the enemy. (God only knows who "THIS" alt belongs to  )
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Russo
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Posted - 2005.08.25 00:53:00 -
[14]
Well often times combat changes very quickly from one moment to the other. And targets are switched, not everyone is paying close attention to gang chat or even team speak. It gets confusing....I dont know if you have ever commanded a large force, but unless they are all elite veterans they will perform less than professionally.
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia
XL pod for an XL personality
'Russo, what exactly do you feed your ego to keep it that big?.'
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Futher Bezluden
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Posted - 2005.08.25 01:25:00 -
[15]
for ships with few mid slots, a high slot laser painter would be a good option if balanced and not stackable or you'd end up with one ship way in the back sensor boosted to all hell lighting up ships with 5-8 of them.
There are logistics ships that fill this role and modules you can pack on your ship to make it more accurate.
the main problem with the item (if stackable or not balanced properly) would be BS snipers capable of obliterating interceptors at max speed almost instantaneously at max range.
But a nice idea all the same for ships with few mid slots for painters.
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MouseOnMars
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Posted - 2005.08.25 03:01:00 -
[16]
Well Russo, since your ideas have been getting a bit of a spanking from everyone else, I've decided to give your tracer idea a fair trial.
Let us consider for a moment, the purpose of a tracer. Tracers are used every 5 rounds for surface to surface weaponry, and every round for surface to air. In air to air, they usually pack them in every other round, if not, they'll make all the rounds tracer, because it makes target tracking easier.
Now, if I were to implement this, it would seem to me that the turret best suited to reap the benefits of tracer would be the autocannon, so that's what I'd give a bonus for. 5% improved turret tracking speed when used with autocannons.
I honestly don't think this is a terribly bad idea. Especially if there's some kind of damage reduction and price increase penalty to even it out, say maybe 5% less damage, 10% higher base price per unit. But it'd be good for swatting close opponents using, for instance, blasters, or pulse lasers.
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Skull Bunny
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Posted - 2005.08.25 05:27:00 -
[17]
Good Input.
However, that would make it a projectile ammo type only.
Either a hybrid and laser equivalent be made as well, or not at all.
I think ammo thats useful for more than just damage is a great idea. For example, a non-explosive Nuclear round that kills all electronics.
For those newly gimped Raven Pilots, a Cruise Stasis missile that immobilizes (temperarily) the target, thus allowing the next 2-3 rounds hit for big-boy damage.
All in all, its a good idea.
This game has too much damage allready, now it needs some diversity and tactics.
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MouseOnMars
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Posted - 2005.08.25 08:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Skull Bunny
Good Input.
However, that would make it a projectile ammo type only.
Either a hybrid and laser equivalent be made as well, or not at all..
There's only one problem with that; Hybrid ammo lights up when it fires anyway, so making a tracer ammo for it would be strange to say the least. Also, lasers ARE a stream of visible light (somewhat unrealistic) which makes contact with the target instantly, so it isn't like you could have a sort of tracer ammo for it. Therefore lasers would have to use some kind of laser sight, which would improve tracking.
Projectile ammo is the only ammo that makes sense for tracers. It's a piece of heated metal, that glows upon being fired and therefore shows you where your shots are going. This allows you to track a moving target by getting a "feel" for trajectory.
But I think that ultimately you could just skip tracers altogether and opt for laser sights. Which basically brings us back to target painters. But instead of a bonus to visibility of the target ship, it should be a sort of tracking bonus.
Originally by: Skull Bunny
I think ammo thats useful for more than just damage is a great idea. For example, a non-explosive Nuclear round that kills all electronics.
For those newly gimped Raven Pilots, a Cruise Stasis missile that immobilizes (temperarily) the target, thus allowing the next 2-3 rounds hit for big-boy damage..
I agree, some good ideas there.
Originally by: Skull Bunny
This game has too much damage allready, now it needs some diversity and tactics.
Absolutely. I think that's one of the reasons why I loved the idea of covert ops so much, and found it so refreshing. I always big up a covert ops pilot if I see one, even if he's my enemy.
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Resin Kadir
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Posted - 2005.08.25 11:41:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Russo
I know what a real life tracer is used for. But as a fleet commander I often cant tell which one of my guys is shooting at what in the middle of a battle. It would be more of an aid for commanders to see who is being hit hardest by either side. the signature radius suggestions was just to give it a second use.
Right click your person and look at then look where he's firing. As a fleet commander all you should have to do is call targets, not monitor your people. i fyou think he's screwing up don't take his arse.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
You sank my battleship!
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Vertigo Coalition - Should Squelch first, it was his idea! |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.25 19:19:00 -
[20]
Forget about tracers, just have shots that miss actually miss and have hits on the shield look different than hits on the armor or structure.
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Skull Bunny
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Posted - 2005.08.25 19:36:00 -
[21]
The game currently, for most Amarr BS Pilots has led to the inevitable choice of either Tnaking or Damage. They simply do not have enough mid slots for anything else. Most Caldari can agree that the Non-missile HPs are rather useless, exept for fending off smaller vessles with NOS. The training of gunnery skills and Missile skills wastes time in this specalized new EVE.
For the Amarr, i would suggest either a crystal ammo, or high slot module that is used for (longer than NOS) non damage uses. I believe Russo's Tracer Ammo is what he is getting at. Tracer Ammo would be the general idea, but any ammo that a commander can use to light up the primary, or increase signature radius or both. It doesn't have to be simply a bright streak of light.
Would the use of a chemical compound added to any ammo to give it "Tracer Properties" would be nice. lets say I coat a set of Large Radio Crystals with "Green Tracer Compound", that would have the effect of reducing my damage (de-focusing the beam, into a colored spray) while literally lighting up my target. (Hopefully on Overview as well).
That way, if I were commanding a fleet, and I used a 2 color rotation to point out Primary - Secondary - next - Next... with a combination of Blue and Red Crystals (4 each). It would have the effect of making it easier for my troops to focus fire by finding the target on overview easier, and increasing slightly (not as much as a target painter) the signature radius of the target.
Just my 2 isk.
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2005.08.26 00:22:00 -
[22]
sorry if this strays slightly off-topic..
Skull Bunny - What you describe there is what (imo) should be a (highly specialized) gang leader *skill*.
The ability to 'paint' a number of targets (depending on skill) in the overview - Which the gang members would then see in *their* overview.
Now - The gang members should *also* need to be fairly high skilled to pick up these colors (else you only need one with the skill in any gang ever)
The amount of 'colors' the gang leader can 'paint' should be skill dependent - up to 5, you *rarely* need more than that anyhow
(Except when having diff prim/sec/tert for small/large short/long range ships. But that takes extremly high skilled commanders to pull of anyhow. I've personally had the pleassure 2-3 times. It's pure poetry when these guys do their stuff)
Imagine the following:
We have gang leader with lvl 3 in 'overview painting' skill.
He is then able to paint 3 targets in teh overview for the gangmembers to see.
Say red(prim)/yellow/green.
Now - When the primary target (red) goes 'poof' - All the colors 'shift up' automatically. (the former secondary is now primary and thus becomes red)
The gang leader can now paint the next tertiary green.
(aside :
It would seem that the gangleader wouldnt ever really need more than 2 colors - one for primary and one for seconday. As it doesnt take long to 'paint' the next secondary target while the primary is getting toasted.
Well it isnt *necesary* - But sometimes it *does* come in handy.
More than just one target *can* suddenly 'disappear' - killed/warped out/CTD/etc.
So having more than just the next target painted can indeed be a good thing - thus the need for more colors to paint with)
The gang members - Needing a different, not quite so high rank skill, can depending on how far up theyve trained their skill - see the colors painted by the gang leader depending on *their own* skill level.
Even though the gang leader have painted 3 targets red/yellow/green, pilot rookie1 can only see the green one, because he has only trained his skill to level 1 etc.
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Over all this would mean, that *everyone* and not just the gangleader needs to train skills to use this feature.
Also, I on purpose have suggested two different skills, one for the gang leader, and one for the gang members - As I think the gang leader skill should be lots harder to train than that of the gang members, as it gives a benefit to the *whole* gang in one go - While the gang member one is 'just' on an individual level.
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The gan leader skill coudl be further expanded - With an additional skill, allowing him to have a second set of colors, who works just like the first set, but independently of those.
Meaning he can have two primaries.
One for the battleship group, and one for the support ship group (or whatever)
If more groups are added - You'll prob need something else than just colors to distinguish them apart though - It gets messy fast 
BIG Lottery
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Russo
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Posted - 2005.08.27 23:43:00 -
[23]
That is a damn fine example. Sign me up
Russo - CEO Amarria Auxilia
XL pod for an XL personality
'Russo, what exactly do you feed your ego to keep it that big?.'
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Eleven
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Posted - 2005.08.28 00:40:00 -
[24]
I like the colored painting idea, but If the skill has to be trained by all to be able to be seen by all ..... that still leaves the noobs shooting at the wrong target!
EQ uses a Primary target indicator that can be bee by the whole raid group, immediately after its entry into the game it cut raid wipe-outs dramatically !
If Painting could be seen either in overview or as a visual effect,
that alone would go some way into lessining the problem.
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