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Showtimex
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Posted - 2005.08.23 16:35:00 -
[1]
Ok after my previous thread regarding Logistics ships, I would now love to hear what people think about EW. I know a lot has changed lately with a lot of devices being changed into Chance based from their Succeed/fail previous state.
Once again my main concern is PvP, how effective are EW focused ships in both large scale (fleet vs. fleet) and small scale PvP? Is there any use in specializing in EW?
Any advice and personal experience is welcome, I have looked for some detailed guides concerning this topic but haven't been too succesful. Therefore I would be very grateful to anyone willing to share the skills they like for EW, the ships they fly in (I have head Scorpions are very popular) and what kind of fitting they go for.
Many thx in advance to all those that will take the time to read this and contribute helping a Poor Noob ^^.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.08.23 16:40:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 23/08/2005 16:41:31
EW...well, it's dicey. Sometimes it will totally own your opponent, other times it doesn't work at all.
Generally speaking, vs. a tier I battleship (except the scorpion) or smaller, a scorpion set up with two of the proper racial jammers and two multispecs can keep a target jammed indefinitely (assuming level 4 caldari battleship, level 4 signal dispersion, and tech 2 jammers). Vs. tier 2 battleship, namely the megathron, apoc, and raven (the tempest has a sub-par sensor strength), the scorpion may or may not jam them. If it does jam the target, the jamming will slip frequently and require you to devote all of your jammers to the same task - and even then the jamming will slip and allow your opponent to get some shots in on you.
EDIT: These are generalizations; EW is all about random chance. Sometimes, a target that you should own 100% just won't jam, and other times a target that you should have trouble jamming (such as a megatrhon with three magnetronic backup array II's) will jam and stay jammed the entire fight.
-Wrayeth
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.23 16:45:00 -
[3]
yep it sucks.
-----------------------------------------
wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Henry Holliday
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Posted - 2005.08.23 17:15:00 -
[4]
After reading this thread and the healer thread I am starting to see why everyone is a tank or sniper in this game.
Need more diversity.
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Showtimex
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Posted - 2005.08.23 17:18:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Henry Holliday
After reading this thread and the healer thread I am starting to see why everyone is a tank or sniper in this game.
Need more diversity.
Yea that is what i am starting to think myself....this is probably the first thing i don't like about this game, if it proofs to be true.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.23 17:34:00 -
[6]
EW sucks, simple as that.
The 'dice roll' problems were pointed at when the EW overhaul was still in testing, and the devs didn't take our arguments into account.
If you happen to have a 'free' med slot, it's a very good idea to slap a multispectral in it, it might be the 'I win' button, and people are complaining about it.
If you take the 'EW specialist' route as I did, you'll basically be playing your ship on a dice roll. Of course, if you happen to have the right racials fitted (who lucky one can be at times  ) you'll annihilate 100% of your opponent power, and sometimes several opponents at a time, which seems overpowered.
If you lack enough racials or your multispectrals fail, you are dead because 20 secs for a new jamming attempt are twice what is needed to blow you up.
IMHO, jamming should not jam everything for a full cycle sometimes, but should always jam some weapons randomly for the whole duration of the cycle.
The 0-100 concept is flawed, IMHO.
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Aegis Osiris
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Posted - 2005.08.23 17:37:00 -
[7]
EW is more powerful then before. However, with such an increase in power you get a big increase in risk as well.
Before EW was changed to a chance based system, 1 Scorp could never have jammed 6 ships at once. Now it can....sometimes.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.23 18:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Aegis Osiris
EW is more powerful then before. However, with such an increase in power you get a big increase in risk as well.
Before EW was changed to a chance based system, 1 Scorp could never have jammed 6 ships at once. Now it can....sometimes.
Before patch, I could jam 3 BS 100% in my Scorp, sometimes 4 if I wasn't killed before (because scorpions were like THE primary target  )
That's because it was soo overpowered that it has been nerfed (or overhauled in icelandic j/k  )
Now, provided you have the 6 correct racial jammers fitted (what are the odds if not undocking just after getting intel?), you have a so small chance jamming several ships that it's not even worth mentioning, but chances are not negligible that you can't jam anything at all and a single failure means death.
I'm not commenting on 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2 here, nor ganking, but on fleet warfare.
If, like I'm thinking about, jamming would always be succesfull but only take away a fraction of the opponents' attacks according to the EW specialist skills, EW could be a profession on it's own instead of the 'win-lose' situation that allows people that haven't even trained Signal Dispersion to fit a single jammer and **** people off with a lucky strike.
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.23 19:13:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 23/08/2005 19:18:27
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 23/08/2005 19:17:02
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 23/08/2005 19:12:46
EW is extremely powerfull now. Couple of Scorps @ the right range will be usefull
and in small gangs EW scorpion will be better than any other battleship providing some damagers are available.
Sorja just whines or cant use it properly.
PS
After reading this
Quote:
Now, provided you have the 6 correct racial jammers fitted
Quote:
you have a so small chance jamming several ships that it's not even worth mentioning
Quote:
a single failure means death.
Quote:
but on fleet warfare.
I wonder how many hours ( minutes?) you have actually spent in EW Scorpion after patch ?
What was you fitting and your skills and what range did you use ?
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Jist bik
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Posted - 2005.08.24 00:10:00 -
[10]
I am back after some months of inactivity, and now i hear EW is changed?
Can some1 tell me what is new and have changed after the Exodus patch?
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Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.08.24 00:20:00 -
[11]
The biggest problem with EW wasn't the EW changes. In fact the EW changes made life interesting for awhile, esp with a scorp. I had a setup with a scorp that just was harder than hell to beat PRIOR to the missile nerf. I was regularly destroying, in most embarrassing fashions, Ravens or really pretty much anything else I came upon because I had come up with a really good distribution of racials in mid slots.
BUT....sadly the missile nerf changed that. Now a scorp simply doesn't have the DOT to take anything larger than perhaps a BC out. I can still lock down any ship in the game, but the damage is gone. Torps don't do **** and 4 cruises might be decent against cruisers or frigs but most everything else will just flick that damage away like an annoying tick.
It's really sad too....I was just starting to get my EW skills up on my scorp pilot.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.24 00:24:00 -
[12]
EW is overpowered in some cases, underpowered in others.
Tracking disruptor = no more turrets. One disruptor can ruin a ship. There is no counter.
A single racial EW module has a 40% chance of jamming a ship--this is ridiculous. At the same time, the fact that 5 don't have a surefire chance of jamming a ship is also ridiculous. A chance-based system would be fine if it was additive, not stacking. E.g. a racial jammer would have 25%, and 4 would have 100%.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Cummilla
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Posted - 2005.08.24 00:32:00 -
[13]
It's a little bit closer to 50% chance to jam with a named racial and good skills. I spent 15 million on the racials for my scorp and it was well worth it prior to the missile nerf.
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.08.24 03:44:00 -
[14]
Just a note: most of you guys seem to think
EW = Jammers.
It ain't, you got sensor dampers, tracking disruption, target painting...
CCP did two big changes:
-For all EW modules, they included optimal and falloff. Good change in generall, the idea that at 80km one module works and at 80.1 it does squat was just wrong, so this is a good change.
-For jammers only, they added the chance-based system (the other modules always have their effect). Not a very cool thing, but so far the only way of not making jammers so "binary". It would be much better if they could somehow implement "partial" jamming (the idea of jamming your oponent's hi-slots sounds cool! though not sure if practical)
-
Matches (short smoking story)
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:00:00 -
[15]
I like how ECM works now, but I'd like to see class-sized ECCM modules added to the game with different sensor strengths depending on the size of the ship. (Example, Frig ECCM mod, 5 strength bonus, Cruiser ECCM 10, BS ECCM 15).
I say this as a Scorp pilot with ECM specialization skills trained up... I like ECM and its a lot of fun but I hate the cheap feeling that comes with it. Give people a means to defend themselves from it better and I wouldn't feel so lousy about using it.
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kerby Lane
I wonder how many hours ( minutes?) you have actually spent in EW Scorpion after patch ?
What was you fitting and your skills and what range did you use ?
That I can answer precisely.
How long: 35 minutes.
Skills: all EW skills at 4.
Range: 100km.
Fitting: 2 x 2 racial jammers + 2 multispecs + sensor booster (8th slot can't remember).
Racials failed, multispecs failed, dead scorpion, cashed in the insurance, bought another Eagle.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:07:00 -
[17]
Thats why Sorja... need more jammers than that... O_o
(Hint: armor tank  )
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Felony Assualt
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:16:00 -
[18]
CCP trashed EW in exodus(i believe it was this exp). EW was working fine when there wasnt a chance to miss, but you had the oppertunity to fit back-up arrays. Now back-up arrays are complete **** and EW never works when you want it to. When they made this change, it removed more modules that could be used and instead of back-up arrays I add more dmg mods. I always thought that a fair trade off was 3 low slots for back-up arrays to make me not able to be jammed. It was less damage but Id never be jammed. This is what EW should be, but it isnt which is retarded. CCP just loves to limit the setups that we can use to pure damage, way to go.
Those who can, do; Those who cant, teach |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK
Thats why Sorja... need more jammers than that... O_o
(Hint: armor tank )
Yep, I've always armor tanked my scorps (and often other Caldari ships...) and I thought after losing that Scorp about trying it again with 8 jammers instead of 6 (while locking fast is something I really like) but 3 things prevented me from trying it again:
1¦ 20 secs cycle is too long
2¦ Scorpions are still called primary
3¦ Racial jammers are not reliable enough for people like me who often fight far away from their base, as you noticed this week-end (on a side note, props to you and your alliance for the way you fight, no smack, no hiding, hats off!)
Now, after the patch that will increase the penalty for damage mod stacking, maybe that 20 sec cycle will have a lesser impact on failures, but until then I want to have control over my ship, not relying on a dice roll.
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ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:31:00 -
[20]
I use 1 SB II, 7 Hypnos Multispecs, and have a success rates against BS of around 94%. Granted you're still an automatic primary in most fleet engagements, but flying alongside 2 other Tempest on the Test server, we killed 12 BS (attacking us in groups of 4) while only losing 1 of our own.
If you use it right, it pwns. 
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.24 04:48:00 -
[21]
Hmm... 7 multis... of course, but what do you do against snipers?
From the top of my head, I get an optimal of 50km and 25km faloff with my Tech IIs. If you are jumping on a fleet, aren't you pretty much a sitting duck?
Well, I guess it's the tradeoff, along with the lower probability to jam... still sounds as many tradeoffs to me...
Dang, I wish the BB got the strenght bonus instead of the range bonus, might try it again with an expandable ship 
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.08.24 05:27:00 -
[22]
my average jammed bs in fleets is 3bs - so much for it sucks ;)
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.24 06:10:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Kerby Lane on 24/08/2005 06:10:50
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
my average jammed bs in fleets is 3bs - so much for it sucks ;)
I have about the same.
It sucks.
Please, buff ECM, 150 km range is too short as well 
I what if Scorpion will be invulnerable when ECM modules are activated ? Then noone will call us primaries and distrupt from the game 
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Kerby Lane
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Posted - 2005.08.24 06:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sorja
Originally by: Kerby Lane
I wonder how many hours ( minutes?) you have actually spent in EW Scorpion after patch ?
What was you fitting and your skills and what range did you use ?
That I can answer precisely.
How long: 35 minutes.
Skills: all EW skills at 4.
Range: 100km.
Fitting: 2 x 2 racial jammers + 2 multispecs + sensor booster (8th slot can't remember).
Racials failed, multispecs failed, dead scorpion, cashed in the insurance, bought another Eagle.
1. Range is a bit short ( I prefer 130\140 ).
2. Need 2 Sensor boosters
3. I dont like to mix multys with racials because of range and in fleet battles you dont neccesary need to cover all races anyway. I usually know what my enemies fly and who is most dangerous.
4. If you jump in gate in 30+ gang and called primary you are dead anyway. It is not the Scorpion problem - just focused fire. If you dont like it fly less dangerous ships (Sac will be fine).
5. 35 minutes is not enought time to know about anything in EVE anyway.
You just could not have out of game skills to use it effectively after patch.
PS
You are contradict yourself - useless ships are not called primaries in fleet battles ( unless piloted by too famous pilots) and Scorpions are first targets most of the time.
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Malken
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Posted - 2005.08.24 06:53:00 -
[25]
EW is to powerful and at the same time useless.
if the fight is within 120k its often to powerful
but as we see look at what the trend is nowadays with 200k range engagements it is totally useless since you cannot target jam anyone at 200k at all.
so everyone does the 200k warp in and out and ECM is useless.
a proposed change could be to have the possibility to target jam at all ranges you can target at.
since you can shoot at someone at the same ranges so why shouldnt you be able to target jam also.
another thing also...
backup arrays are a joke nowadays
they royally suck and doesnt help anything in defending against ECM.
"Only wimps use tape backup: real men just upload their important stuff on ftp, and let the rest of the world mirror it."
[Linus B. Torvalds] |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.08.24 07:14:00 -
[26]
itd like the multis to become a bit more powerful,
but more capeating and a very shiortrange thingie, 7.5km optimal as example.
so ecm has its long and closerange mods
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Jist bik
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Posted - 2005.08.24 09:53:00 -
[27]
Like I said before, I would be wery grateful if someone could explain the changes, not just say its god or bad.
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Ichtar
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:14:00 -
[28]
Hi1
I have lvl 4 on all EW skills!
My fittig:
2 Sensor Boosters II
4 Multi II
2 Remote sensor Dampers II
And i think i can stop all
for you allways have 1 Pritarget 1 sec target and that is Scorpions and Damagedealer you need to get EW on!
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:16:00 -
[29]
EW is ghey.
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Sorja
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Posted - 2005.08.24 14:34:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kerby Lane
You are contradict yourself - useless ships are not called primaries in fleet battles
Scorps are called primaries because:
1¦ They used to be before patch and when people are used to something they don't change their habits easily.
2¦ People don't like being jammed, even if there's a small probability being jammed, so they go for jammers first even if it's a poor tactical choice.
3¦ Scorpions go down so fast it's basicaly a free BS kill when we meet one.
Scorpions and blackbirds have nearly gone extinct where I fight (which encompass quite a wide area in EVE), that surely means something...
I gave my arguments, you gave your opinion, it's ok
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