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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:29:00 -
[1]
The reimbursement situation from CCP is abhorent. No matter what logic you use, you are sure to not be reimbursed. Its baffling as its not money out of CCPs pocket, and playing the game is more fun than trying to play the GMs for some free stuff which is what they must think we players waste so much time trying to do.
Its time for the reimbursemnt claims to be handled by a third party. As it stands the players have no recourse except to simply go on feeling quite cheated, or leave the game and feel some since of justice. Perhaps some independent agent can decide wheather or not CCPs claims of innocense hold water, or a players claims of CCP negligence are more substantial.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:32:00 -
[2]
Third Party ?
Right.
Like that's gonna work.
If you arent happy with your gm decision, escalate it to a senior GM. If those still cant explain what is their reasoning for not reimbursing you, the recourse ends, unless they want to try again.
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Avon
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:34:00 -
[3]
I'll take the job.
Mail bribes (min 5mil) to me dirctly.
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Pay or pray..er..prey..yeah, pray you aren't prey. Er, just pay. |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:36:00 -
[4]
GM's are a third party, they work for Simmin not CCP.
CCP's role is to make sure their logging is good enough to capture most events that lead to ship loss but lag cannot be accuratly related to an event, node deaths can be, if you look at eve-i server status for eg, it will show spikes where nodes have dropped (happens between 3-5am every day atm it seems)
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:36:00 -
[5]
This is Eve not the USA. You can't just claim compensation when something goes wrong with the world. **** happens, its more realistic.
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wts all new "burberry" warp core stab II's |
Guvnor RBM
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:40:00 -
[6]
I've had 3 Battle ships returned to me via GM's and some missing ISK, I never had a problem with paying out, But I guess alot goes on how you word your claim and your attitude when the ask you about it
_______________________________________________
How I feel about Eve: the love/hate-ometer:
Love .|........................... Hate
Loving it !!! , just been kicked out of my corp and turned t |
SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:44:00 -
[7]
yeah the wording matters alot. Spamming something unintelligible and full of hate is not going to get you a decent response from a GM. Slagging people off because the petition didnt go your way isnt the best way to interact with the GMs. People are usually more inclined to help if you ask nicely.
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Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:49:00 -
[8]
I've tried the nicely bit. Still down 1 Dominix, 1 destroyer, 1 frig (full of Zyd) and a Deimos, all due to bugs of some type or another that CCP later admits to being a bug and I'm never reembursed.
It really grates on enjoyability and really cuts down my desire to go into any kind of combat. I can handle loseing a ship in PvP under normal means, but when you're unable to run a blockade because of some obscure bug that doesn't allow you to jump, or your resistances being ignored by NPCs, and are not reembursed, that just ***** me off.
Aside from reembursement, the GM team rocks. Especially GM Spiral.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." |
SengH
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:56:00 -
[9]
Hey Ive had my bad share of not getting reimbursed... especially since a GM told me that it was a bug and its ok that I could keep doing it and I'd get reimbursed when its fixed. When the bugs were fixed another GM came and said sorry we cant reimburse you (4 weeks later... really thanks guys over a billion isk down the drain and nothing to show for it). Needless to say I kinda lost it when I read that. But I took a couple hours off and wrote a decent reply back and am still fighting to get reimbursed :P GM Arkanon the petition is still open :P (8 weeks later) :P
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kieron
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Posted - 2005.08.24 15:58:00 -
[10]
What Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:01:00 -
[11]
I lost over 50 million in minerals from an incorrectly ejected job due to a downtime that required a server reboot. It took some time, but I eventually received the minerals.
I didn't use any logic other than describing my situation and the circumstances surrounding it. And I didn't write my petition in an abrasive manner, resubmit the same petition over and over again, that kind of thing. So your statement that you're "sure to not be reimbursed" is largely incorrect.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:04:00 -
[12]
I've had pretty decent luck with getting ships back from bugs etc but I still think I'm 5 BS down from when missiles hit objects before reaching their target.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Shadowsword
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:12:00 -
[13]
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
They even add some black humor in their answers. I like a lot the "We hope you recover quickly..." about a loss of nearly 1 million SP.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:17:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:18:00 -
[15]
Well I have never been reimbursed. I rarely ask. I only have even cared twice. Both times were however not due to bugs, but bad game design. So this is really where the call for 3rd party comes from. Currently CCP AFAIK does not reimburse for bad design/flaws.
Like the time Silence The Informant was introduced as L3 but was actually L4 difficulty. Lots of folks lost ships, none reimbursed, and they later realigned that mission. Not a bug, but a design problem.
Also, I don't expect them to reimburseme me (I didn't even file claim) for the isk lost and loosing right now since my POS can't claim soverignity due to bug. Third party might see that differently.
And thats a big assumption that everyone that talks nice gets a reimbursemtnt. And that people who don't do not get reimbursement. I sincerely hope this is not true as it would display a lack of professionalism on GMs part and open the door to favoritism/discrimination.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
That wouldn't be the side of caution from where I stand. Consider that due to game design some things don't show up in the log. So CCP gets off the hook for things that they designed to not show up in the log? That might be CCPs position, but do you think a third party would agree with that?
The benefit of the doubt always goes to CCP. This is not 'independent' behavior on GMs part.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
Bozse
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: kieron
What Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
Sorry but in many cases that isn't enough, common sens is something they shuld be allowed to use imo.
We all know how sertain things work in game and what shuld and shuld not happen in certain given situations, for example a fleet fight with 30 on each side with atleast 15 BS on each side and one side get's one kill while the other side kills 15-20, then logic tells anyone that have played this game that something went wrong.
But u wont get reembursed even tho horrible lag killed your fleet just because "there is no logs of lag" even tho as i said anyone knowing the game can see that something went wrong.
And another thing that is kind of disturbing is when u get ranged replys from "drones dont create lag if there is something wrong with them bug report it" to "drones create equal lag for both sides so we can't compensate" in the same petition (not direct quotes just the general translations).
Wich all that have warped in to lots of drones can tell u that the lag is in no way equal, so either they dont play or are lying both quite bad.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Guvnor RBM
I've had 3 Battle ships returned to me via GM's and some missing ISK, I never had a problem with paying out, But I guess alot goes on how you word your claim and your attitude when the ask you about it
The wording, provison of client logs too detailed to be false and even screenshots MAKE ZERO DIFFERENCE to the actual random 50/50 chance of reimbursement. Please stop kidding yourselves otherwise 
MOOrovingian  "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Lianhaun
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Originally by: Guvnor RBM
I've had 3 Battle ships returned to me via GM's and some missing ISK, I never had a problem with paying out, But I guess alot goes on how you word your claim and your attitude when the ask you about it
The wording, provison of client logs too detailed to be false and even screenshots MAKE ZERO DIFFERENCE to the actual random 50/50 chance of reimbursement. Please stop kidding yourselves otherwise
I have always been polite in my petition and I always got a polite reply in return, I petitioned a loss of ship twice to a bug and both were returned to me.
And I'm certainly no angel.
This is not a hijack
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:54:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I have always been polite in my petition and I always got a polite reply in return, I petitioned a loss of ship twice to a bug and both were returned to me.
And I'm certainly no angel.
Likewise I am always patient & polite and the response times and language has been more than adequate however on two very clear cut (and costly) occasions the lack of reimbursement due to rigid & flawed policy has been ridiculous beyond belief.
And I am an angel.
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Shittake
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: kieron
What Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
The problem is Kieron that there seems to be a lack of tools for the GMs. I know of many who have lost a ship and have not gotten reimbursed and I know for a fact their ISP/Internet connection was not the problem. The GM's have said they lack the tools to verify the claim.
Perhaps some more tools can be put into the GM's hands in the future which would allow for them to better investigate reimbursement claims?
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Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.24 16:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Bozse
We all know how sertain things work in game and what shuld and shuld not happen in certain given situations, for example a fleet fight with 30 on each side with atleast 15 BS on each side and one side get's one kill while the other side kills 15-20, then logic tells anyone that have played this game that something went wrong.
that is the problem, you could say it was drone lag, the GM's wont know that other than records of drones hitting you. It could very well be am abysmal fleet commander decision and you got soundly beaten by a superior force.
As others have said, you can trust nothing anyone sends you or tells you in a petition which cannot be backed up by server logs. To trust what someone says anytime they lose a ship sets a dangerous precedent for anyone to petition when they make a mistake for whatever reason and blame it on anyone but themselves.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Bozse
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Posted - 2005.08.24 17:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hakera
Originally by: Bozse
We all know how sertain things work in game and what shuld and shuld not happen in certain given situations, for example a fleet fight with 30 on each side with atleast 15 BS on each side and one side get's one kill while the other side kills 15-20, then logic tells anyone that have played this game that something went wrong.
that is the problem, you could say it was drone lag, the GM's wont know that other than records of drones hitting you. It could very well be am abysmal fleet commander decision and you got soundly beaten by a superior force.
As others have said, you can trust nothing anyone sends you or tells you in a petition which cannot be backed up by server logs. To trust what someone says anytime they lose a ship sets a dangerous precedent for anyone to petition when they make a mistake for whatever reason and blame it on anyone but themselves.
There is ofc alot more facts to that case but i dont want to go to far in to it on the forums as that would be pushing it =)
I do like to add that aside from the occasional "bulls.h.i.t" explanation the GM's does a great jobb, this is more of a beef with CCP for not giving them the tools/right to use common sens in there work.
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Basileus
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Posted - 2005.08.24 17:13:00 -
[24]
Independant GMs? I don't buy it. Reimbursement? A joke. One more reason NOT to venture into 0.0. You lag out, lose you ship and back to the good old veldspar chomping. No, thank you sir.
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Wira
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Posted - 2005.08.24 17:13:00 -
[25]
Originally by: kieron
What Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
I have been both reimbursed and not, and while not happy at the moment of being turned down, the staff has always been polite and respectful, and I try to treat them the same. You win some, you lose some, but no one likes a bad winner, or a sour grapes loser.
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2005.08.24 17:43:00 -
[26]
Quote:
You win some, you lose some, but no one likes a bad winner, or a sour grapes loser.
Reimbursement shouldn't be about winning some and losing some - THAT IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM 
MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
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Altai Saker
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Posted - 2005.08.24 18:16:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Altai Saker on 24/08/2005 18:15:59
I've been reimbursed ---> 1 time
I've petitioned it ---> 4 times
I've deserved to get my stuff back ---> 4 times
you telling me in all honsety the logs dont show when you crash, either on a jump in(and you just sit their even tho your in an inty and the dudes in a bs? WTF?
Or when you crash at a belt and sit still and let 2 bs kill your raven while your NOT being warpscrambled!!! CCP I LOVE YOU
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.08.24 19:51:00 -
[28]
They can't even tell what you had fitted. Here's a hint: If I get concordened because I "warp scrambled" a guy in empire (clear in everyone's logs), without having a warp scrambler FITTED, I don't expect to be told I can't be reimbursed.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.24 19:58:00 -
[29]
I got reimbursed last time I lost a ship 
--
Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Grizwold
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:05:00 -
[30]
I have never had any real problems with reinbursement from the GMs of ships. The problem is the non replacement of the mods lost which can be worth much more than the ship.
They could use more extensive logs for assistance but as a whole I believe that they are doing an excellent job and put up with an awful lot of Sh*t.
That said my son had had terrible luck with them re reinbursement so I can understand how some peeps get very frustrated with seemingly arbitrary negative decisions.
Keep up the good work guys!
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Lanu
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:33:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
I got reimbursed last time I lost a ship
Same here.. all the time I've asked for reimbursement for lost ships due to bugs/exploits/server problems I've gotten my ship back.
I'm pretty happy with how the GM's handle petitions.. if you have played some other games ( mmorpg's ) then you will know that this is much better then in the other games dont whine  .
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grendels arm
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:50:00 -
[32]
I will say this sounds like a very whiny post.
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Taketa De
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Posted - 2005.08.24 20:58:00 -
[33]
I see two problems with the issue:
1. Incresing logging beyond a certain degree will increase lag, because every logged event are extra steps in generating the log and writing it to disk/db. That means a fair balance must be found of how far one can go with logging.
Also, increasing the logs increases the amount of information. Too much information means the signal to noise ratio gets smaller and smaller untill it is almost impossible or takes a lot of work and time to find anything usefull in them.
2. People of course all have their own opinion about what is a valid reason for reinburesment and what not. These are of course subjective and everyone thinks they are right, espeically if they don't take the time to view the issue from another point of view then their own.
One example of this would be the crash scenario mentioned above. If you crash like that, especailly against a superior force I would not think that would be a valid reason. If it were, what would keep people from crashing their client on purpose (very easy to do with an external program and no, CCP coud never tell the difference) anytime they got into trouble?
One questions I think GM's should always have to ask themselves (or the policy makers anyway) is if it can be abused. If it can then they shouldn't be reinbursing in this case, because then if they reinburse some and not some others there will be a huge outcry of favoritism...
Yes, some people will not get back things they lost that are not their fault, but unfortunatly it is part of the nature of this type of game. Reinbursing for too much would ruin it a lot more then reinbursing for too little does.
And last I also think one should always stay polite and friendly in these situations. The situation isn't the GM's fault so it isn't fair to offload your frustration and anger on them.
It's a game after all...
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Soren
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:00:00 -
[34]
It does need to be looked at, there's been times when I should have gotten a ship back, and I know some people that just petiton everytime they die, and they get alot of ships back tbh..
That being said I think CCPs policy is "ok". I get reinbursed sometimes, sometimes I don't, I deal with it. Like Kieron said, not many companies do reinbursments. I've never played another game where they gave you back your stuff because of "lag".
_________________________________________________________
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Bozse
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:38:00 -
[35]
Problem with the lag issue is that most cases when u fight npc and something goes wrong and u die because of lag/disconnect u will be reembursed, but when it comes down to pvp in bigger scale u allmost never get reembursed due to lag disconnects because "there is no logs".
My first post contained both a made up scenario and one that have happend (the 1 kill vs 15 kills was to illustrate the that common sens can be applyed in some cases), the drone issue is something that have happend and to get the reply that u wont get reembused because 1. Drones dont create lag. 2. Drones cause equal lag to all hence nothing wrong. 3. There is no log that supports it.
When in fact my client even froze from the lag to the degree where i had to force close it throu windown task manager (worst lag i have seen in game so far), in cases like that it's like a slap in the face to get the reply that there is no logs and nothing that can be done about it, not to mention the "we'r sorry for your loss hope u can recover swiftly"
Might sound as i have a huge problem with CCP but that's not the case i do think they do a realy good jobb and i still enjoy the game, i do however hope that by explaining the problem from my point of view the GM's might get better tools and or some room for common sens in there decissions in the future.
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infused
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Posted - 2005.08.24 21:40:00 -
[36]
I've only had refunds when I have provided screen shots or fraps footage... they denied the claims before that.
[EvE Domination]
YARRRRRR!!!!!!!!! |
Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2005.08.24 22:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: ****take
...Perhaps some more tools can be put into the GM's hands in the future which would allow for them to better investigate reimbursement claims?
Yes that.
Seem to be concensus that GM do good job with tools they have so maybe 3rd party is not the answer. Better tools is.
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
fras
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Posted - 2005.08.24 23:49:00 -
[38]
if ya have money, hire a atty. have them send a subpoenea stating that charges are being pressed against a game member. dont say the reasons why. it just gives them some silly reason to respond negatively to. state that they deman the release of that persons identity to have them served with a subpoenea
under ccp (california civil procedures) its called discovery.
working for a atty's office sure helps( wish i had money or nerve to ask my boss that question) if its possible
id be serving a few people with subpoeneas lol
kill me too mnay times in game lol ill sue wrong wrongful harassment lololololololol
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Blydchyld
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Posted - 2005.09.01 14:45:00 -
[39]
Originally by: fras
if ya have money, hire a atty. have them send a subpoenea stating that charges are being pressed against a game member. dont say the reasons why. it just gives them some silly reason to respond negatively to. state that they deman the release of that persons identity to have them served with a subpoenea
under ccp (california civil procedures) its called discovery.
working for a atty's office sure helps( wish i had money or nerve to ask my boss that question) if its possible
id be serving a few people with subpoeneas lol
kill me too mnay times in game lol ill sue wrong wrongful harassment lololololololol
Im so glad that you dont work for my solicitors company. CCP states in there T&C's the following.
'bla bla bla... You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of ReykjavÝk, Iceland.'
Official corp nobody.
The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me |
PiniclePanda
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Posted - 2005.09.01 14:59:00 -
[40]
Edited by: PiniclePanda on 01/09/2005 15:03:14
Edited by: PiniclePanda on 01/09/2005 15:00:21
Originally by: Ticondrius
I've tried the nicely bit. Still down 1 Dominix, 1 destroyer, 1 frig (full of Zyd) and a Deimos, all due to bugs of some type or another that CCP later admits to being a bug and I'm never reembursed.
And I'm up one Rupture. Never had a problem getting reembursed, and was given a rupture back when they had the last huge patch with lag issues, and they decided to just reemburse en-masse. I had lost the Rupture fair and square, and hadn't filed any petitions in an attempt to "cheat the system" or the like  . And I do mean up one, as I also got the insurance payout, which was not withdrawn from my wallet.
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Drilla
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:08:00 -
[41]
I've had nothing but trouble with GMs - even when petitons have been documented by fraps and over ten (10+) eyewitnesses they have been denied. After that incident I just gave up on GMs and havent even bothered to petition several exploiters since then.
Just before I gave up on the GMs I actually tried to petition a cruiser lost to me being AFK at a gate with NPC rats and for no apparent reason and it was reimbursed within the hour.
Go figure.
EVE System Security - Killboard (still early alpha) |
Blydchyld
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:34:00 -
[42]
guys the gm team are only human. There following rules set out by CCP.
Cut em some slack.
Official corp nobody.
The above post is my post and does not represent the views of any entity, If my views have upset you PM me |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:46:00 -
[43]
I can cut them some slack but ive petitioned 3 times, and never been reimbursed
The first was serious cap bug. I even had a screenshot of it. My cap was at 0 when it showed 55%. Lost a deimos cos of that. GMs said their log showed nothing. Screenshot wasnt accepted as it could be altered etc etc
Second and third time was warping into a gate in 0.0. Both times they had bubbles. Both times i landed on the gate, with my autopilot on, destination set THROUGH the gate i was warping in to. First time, i got podded as my ship just sat on the gate and never jumped. Second time i got podded cos it said "autopilot jumping" then about 5 seconds later "ship is out of control". So i hit jump once im in a pod and get the old jump bug "you can not do this for another 25 seconds blah blah blah".
I have never been reimbursed and im frankly ****ed off with it. Why the hell would i warp into a gate that is camped by 20+ BS and sit there and die in my ceptor? and then get podded? I mean come on, a bit of common sense wouldnt go amiss ffs. As for the third and most recent time this happened, its obvious to me that its the jump bug (which was supposedly sorted out) but of course i got the "our logs dont show anything" standard crap cos the GMs too busy drinking his coffee to actually be arsed to read my petition (the first reply i got was COMPLETELY unrelated to my actual petition so it was obvious the GM hadnt read it)
TBH, wtf is the point in asking? I know someone that got a 2bil apoc + equipment replaced by the GMs cos he ****** up on a mission and died, LEGITIMETELY, yet they wont give me squat even though i lose crap to game bugs and issues.
My Latest Vid: Linky |
Weeman
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.01 15:55:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Weeman
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
And third party arbitration would help how?
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JP Beauregard
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Posted - 2005.09.01 16:04:00 -
[46]
There is a very simple solution to the reimbursement problem: do not reimburse anything.
For why should you? People pay to access to service to play the game. Playing the game is a process. Owning an item is not. You can always regain the item through gameplay.
Perhaps people should spend less energy on pride of virtual ownership and invest more heavily in the process of playing. I know, I know. This comes from someone who admittedly must be doing something terribly wrong, for he never claimed to have lost anything to a "bug".
Bottom line: reimbursement is a courtesy, not an obligation. Ask accordingly and do not expect anything.
JP Beauregard
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Thinking will ruin your EVEperience.
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Maltroc
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Posted - 2005.09.01 16:30:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Maltroc on 01/09/2005 16:31:30
Originally by: kieron
What Hakera said is spot on. The directives for claim reimbursement that CCP has given the GM team is the most fair based on the tools available. To be honest, most companies have a zero reimbursement policy, so EVE is a bit more free than the others.
Kieron could you check your email (I know you receive loads and are quite busy :) because our corp suffered from POS exploit some time ago. We petioned the event with quite a bit of evidence (fraps, howto).
The GM closed the petition while providing another "solution" for the events. This caused a lot of frustration. Their solution isn't possible the given game mechanics. A second unanswered petition is still going this ages without answer while the first was lost...
Now some days ago the same exploit happened again with another G POS.
Well you can guess that we are a bit frustrated since we provided information how it happened while we get told something that doesn't even work.
</understatement>
PS: I won't go into the details because it would just get the thread locked.
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Weeman
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Posted - 2005.09.01 16:45:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Weeman
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
And third party arbitration would help how?
It wouldnt, all im saying is that the current policy/process is flawed in some respects and needs evaluation in my opinion
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Xune
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Posted - 2005.09.01 17:26:00 -
[49]
8 times petitioned 8 times no reimburse
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drillerkiller2004
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Posted - 2005.09.01 17:50:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Weeman
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Shadowsword
I think the GMs do a pretty decent job, except for one point: When you petition about something that isn't recorded on a log or something (like lag), they seem to assume that you're a liar.
If they have no logging that could prove or disprove it either way, why wouldn't they assume you're not telling the truth? So they err on the side of caution. The alternative is much, much worse.
So 200 people on saturday night lied? Id love to have a senior GM tell me that...
And third party arbitration would help how?
Dude, do you just look through the boards looking for an argument? Every time I see a posting from you it is one were you are shooting someone down and kissing up to CCP! Are you a CCP mole?
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.01 17:57:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Winterblink on 01/09/2005 17:57:09
Originally by: drillerkiller2004
Dude, do you just look through the boards looking for an argument? Every time I see a posting from you it is one were you are shooting someone down and kissing up to CCP! Are you a CCP mole?
If I see something I don't agree with, I'm going to disagree with it. There's no rule against that, man. :)
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drillerkiller2004
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Posted - 2005.09.01 18:11:00 -
[52]
OK np
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.09.01 18:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: drillerkiller2004
OK np
Nothing major, and nothing personal. :) *shakes hand*
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.09.01 19:42:00 -
[54]
ive had a lot of problems with gms, some even refused flatout to read the damn petition, but some on the other hand are very helpful, a minority though :|
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.01 20:43:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Maya Rkell on 01/09/2005 20:45:02
Originally by: Blydchyld
guys the gm team are only human. There following rules set out by CCP.
Cut em some slack.
Why?
Refusing to refund a concord death related to something I DIDN'T HAVE FITTED ON MY SHIP (warp scrambling without a warp scrambler 4tl) is a pile of crap. They CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU HAD FITTED, FFS.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Alerce
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Posted - 2005.09.01 20:49:00 -
[56]
kieron thats rubbish what you said.
Most companies have a pretty good reimbursement team.
I played several mmorpgs in the past and in all of them i did get reimbursements for different things.
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.09.01 20:54:00 -
[57]
Please make sure your replies are constructive and not flames/rants
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
You spin me right round, baby. |
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Phant Zon
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Posted - 2005.09.01 21:16:00 -
[58]
Its simple, if your honestly considering third party intervention concerning a online game, you should 1. Step back and take a deep breath, 2. Either cancel your account or take a long hiatus and 3. remember that its a game, something thats intended for enjoyment. Whats going to happen if one or more persons go this route is CCP will change their policy to NO REIMBURSEMENTS. PERIOD. and you can rest assured in the knowledge that youve ruined it for everyone.
If you need some stress relief, I suggest taking up some martial skill, works wonders to practice something that focuses your attention to the exclusion of all else. As a 10+ year veteran of online RPGs, the first thing I learned is that the maxim 'easy come, easy go' applies quite frequently, and ya better learn to live with it, or you wont enjoy yourself much.
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.09.01 21:41:00 -
[59]
Edited by: w0rmy on 01/09/2005 21:44:55
Originally by: MOOstradamus
Originally by: Guvnor RBM
I've had 3 Battle ships returned to me via GM's and some missing ISK, I never had a problem with paying out, But I guess alot goes on how you word your claim and your attitude when the ask you about it
The wording, provison of client logs too detailed to be false and even screenshots MAKE ZERO DIFFERENCE to the actual random 50/50 chance of reimbursement. Please stop kidding yourselves otherwise
True.
The GM's flip a coin. Heads you get ****e, tails you get something.
Myself and an old corp mate where both doing lvl4 missions together, the node died, we both logged back in in pods.
We both petitioned, with WORD FOR WORD identical petitions.
He got his ship back, I got told their logs showed no problems with the servers at that time.
Admittedly we got different GM's, but I fail to see how word for word identical petitions, based on identical situations, could result in 2 completely opposite outcomes.
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Raeff
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Posted - 2005.09.02 00:44:00 -
[60]
out of 20 petitions that i can think of right off the top of my head(4 by me with 0 reimbursment), i know of 1 that was granted his items back .. all were well documented(screen shots, etc), including a corp mate that had his freighter ejected from the factory just a day or 2 ago and lost all the materials and was told they cannot reimburse...
i am VERY dissapointed in the GM team and have lost confidence in them almost completely
i pray for the day when they finally get their act together
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.09.02 00:48:00 -
[61]
I agree with everything posted in this thread.
I'd also like to take the opportunity to say that Eris has nice hair
SniggleVision |
Raeff
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Posted - 2005.09.02 05:31:00 -
[62]
Originally by: w0rmy
Edited by: w0rmy on 01/09/2005 21:44:55
Originally by: MOOstradamus
The wording, provison of client logs too detailed to be false and even screenshots MAKE ZERO DIFFERENCE to the actual random 50/50 chance of reimbursement. Please stop kidding yourselves otherwise
True.
The GM's flip a coin. Heads you get ****e, tails you get something.
Myself and an old corp mate where both doing lvl4 missions together, the node died, we both logged back in in pods.
We both petitioned, with WORD FOR WORD identical petitions.
He got his ship back, I got told their logs showed no problems with the servers at that time.
Admittedly we got different GM's, but I fail to see how word for word identical petitions, based on identical situations, could result in 2 completely opposite outcomes.
true true true true TRUE!!! omfg i have seen this on SO MANY different occasions its just sickening
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Ticondrius
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Posted - 2005.09.02 06:51:00 -
[63]
If you ever manage to get a ship replaced, jot down that GM's name and request him with all future replacement needs. That type of GM is probably a very endangered species though.
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." |
Raeff
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Posted - 2005.09.02 12:18:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Raeff on 02/09/2005 12:20:11
problem that needs to be addressed so i'm bumping back to first page
obviously this is a problem, and WE need to let them know how serious it is!
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.09.02 12:35:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Raeff
Edited by: Raeff on 02/09/2005 12:20:11
problem that needs to be addressed so i'm bumping back to first page
obviously this is a problem, and WE need to let them know how serious it is!
Bumping gets you teh lockz0r, so watch out
SniggleVision |
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.09.02 12:53:00 -
[66]
Verone with all the sucking up and reminding people of the forum rules I'd almost think you were looking for a volunteer job
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
You spin me right round, baby. |
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2005.09.02 13:12:00 -
[67]
Quote:
So i hit jump once im in a pod and get the old jump bug "you can not do this for another 25 seconds blah blah blah".
As for the third and most recent time this happened, its obvious to me that its the jump bug (which was supposedly sorted out) but of course i got the "our logs dont show anything" standard crap cos the GMs too busy drinking his coffee to actually be arsed to read my petition (the first reply i got was COMPLETELY unrelated to my actual petition so it was obvious the GM hadnt read it)
And this proves how completely random it is.
I had exactly the same thing happen to me, petitioned it, got a halfarsed reply in the lines of "did you have aggression" , propmted the GM to read my original statement in which i described all this and then funny part? they replied that they checked the log and reimbursed the pod loss.
I've also had pod's not autowarping during CTDs. My petition was not reimbursed, the GM tried to claim that it is possible to lock down a disconnected pod before it warps...
My friends petition which was identical situation was reimbursed.
And i have seen other cases of similar situation with completely different results. My stance now is be clear in your petition and cross your fingers.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.02 13:40:00 -
[68]
Most retarded suggestion I have ever heard. No company has a third party reimburstment system so get the hell over it. Welcome to the real world where life isn't fair.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.02 13:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Eris Discordia
Verone with all the sucking up and reminding people of the forum rules I'd almost think you were looking for a volunteer job
Off topic! Could a mod please remove this?
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Galk
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Posted - 2005.09.02 13:46:00 -
[70]
Without bothering to read all of it, not like iv'e not seen countless threads of upset people when things havn't been returned due to server error, and likewise with people saying they have no problems what so ever.. ect...
What i do think is there is a general lack of trust in the gm process.
People mention better tools or whatever, what has allways been apparant with moderation iv'e encounterd and from what iv'e seen in these many threads, is that when the gm's have no answer, they allways cover it up with generic responce.
When you have just lost out, that is 'very' upseting.
Non to sure if a 3rd party is exactly viable, 'but' gm's should explain themselfs better, as it stands at the momment a gm can say anything he likes and you have to eat it.
You complain about that to a senior gm... you get absolutely nowhere, all you recive is generic responce..
No matter how polite you are, all you get back is a faceless responce which 'never' answers your grievence.
--------
23
Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front.
'Danton Marcellus'
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.09.02 13:49:00 -
[71]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Eris Discordia
Verone with all the sucking up and reminding people of the forum rules I'd almost think you were looking for a volunteer job
Off topic! Could a mod please remove this?
I've applied for CRC and STAR several times... however I see it as follows :
Half of my eve time, I generally tend to post, stuff that seems to encite mass rage/hysteria/flaming/trolling. So that means CRC are out of the question, as Wrangler would probably rather cut off his man's bits with a rusty bread knife and bathe in the Dead Sea than allow me moderator privileges.
My other half of my eve time I spend indescriminantly killing random people, and since the STAR program is about helping players, and aiding them in understanding the mechanics, and systems in eve, it's probably also not a good career move to accept my services there.
Bugger. 
SniggleVision |
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