I dont have this problem in null. The enemy is very clear. He will be the one not blue

gankers argue that ganking is pvp, then how come ganking should be profitable when pvp isnt?

My thought is ganking hulls (salvage only)
should be unprofitable.
Period end of it all.
Now ganking ships fit with no tank, just hull plus mods should be profitable as the mods now drop, but you must use appropriate ships, ie something other than large value n of gankalysts.
An easy way to solve this factor of gankalysts killing everything for single digit percent of the cost would be to have Concord jam and neut along with their warp scramming.
Larger ships will laugh at this as they fit cap boosters and eccm mods (im looking at you awesome people of batcounty)
This allows gankalysts to get off a few shots without hampering the larger ships.
Basically the issue is that as it stands, if someone can obtain sufficient gankalysts they will kill you regardless of tank and always well below mod drop.
That is my complaint.
Dont nerf dessies, dont hurt big ships with more slots.
Just remove one specific style of play that currently can not be countered.
Alphanados are acceptable as that is their role.
Gankalyst however get to move within optimal and you can watch them prepare but nothing can be done to stop it.

Though that would be nice to have, some method of acting on gankers so as to remove the whole bit of by the time you can react it is already over.

Ooh maybe have a Concord patrol in system that flits between belts and customs office and cannot be drug away.
This way those at keyboard get to see the patrol warp off and know to follow while those afk have to continue rolling dice.
No need to nerf or buff and it rewards active play while not nerfing afk play.

cat fleet cost in total less than 4 millon isk.

Your inability to see any point of view other than your own never ceases to amaze. I actually have multiple accounts in three areas. Hi-sec low/null just not wormholes. I donGÇÖt know everything about the game or even as much as others. I do know how I see things and have the ability of being even brained and can see things from multiple points of view. I may not always agree with those views but I will state my case and stand for what I believe to be right and what may help others.

I'm an angry NAP aspirant. I want to scourge people. I am obsessed with hi-sec miners.

Sure, point taken, but you are wrong about it, because there are more profitable and less interactive play styles. You then cannot kick miners out of the game, because you need the minerals, but you can well kick gankers out of the game, because they are not needed for anything.

So it still needs a good argument. Miners have all the good arguments. Why cannot those cheap gankers have good arguments?

Clearly, "good" PvP is everything except suicide ganking miners, which is arbitrarily bad.

It is not valid, it's the only way to do it while not going even more insane (more = insanity is being present enough already to make the person mine to begin with).

I am against AFK ,miners because the idea of them playing AFK is so offensive that it destroys all the enjoyment I get from playing the game. Now I don't enjoy myself at all, and all I have is my rage to keep me company. This is not amusing Mr. Andski. This is as personal as it will ever get.

That doesn't make his point any less valid.

High-Sec is a fiasco, and the not-so-profitable ganking scene is now heavily subsidized by null-sec dwellers to the tune of billions.

The people taking advantage of the welfare are the gankers able to use low cost fits to kill high value ships.

There's one thing that I have not understood.

What's the exact reason to ever fit some pimped modules? I mean, the ship WILL get ganked: every relevant mission hub has some scan alts outside the stations to detect pimpmobiles.

So what's the point of putting in game 5B modules if there's no use for them as it's dumb to fit them?

Go back to page one post one in reference to Dev Soundwave quote. He as well stated that ganking should be possible but not profitable per say. This concept could and should be carried over to encompass high value ships as well. Gankable but not profitable. CanGÇÖt say it or dumb it down any further than that for you sorry.

as for projecting Soundwave's opinion on the profitability of ganking exhumers for salvage to ganking pimp fit mission boats, that is goddamn stupid because there is huge difference between ganking an exhumer solely for its salvage and targeting a shiny mission Machariel because it's a loot pinata

in the former case, exhumers were profitable to gank from the get go, before any modules were fitted. in the latter, the pilot made the choice to paint a bullseye on his ship.

however, wretches desperate to tell everyone "GANKING MY 20B OFFICER FIT MACHARIEL SHOULDN'T BE PROFITABLE" quoting Soundwave out of context does not surprise me in the least bit

So you donGÇÖt think CCP is smart enough to code to where you could get your own sheet back?

They seemed to do it for the miners so the game must have been for them. maybe they will make it so this game is for me next.

For the record I have yet to loose a high dollar ship to hi-sec pvp but I know several pilots that have.

I play in all three secs. I feel each should provide its own unique play style. hi-sec shouldnt be for bored players as a venue to gank and grief players and make a profit.

If you want to kill and or grief players in hi-sec then it should cost you.

This is why ganging is out of line atm

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216694&find=unread

ISK tanking is fine. If it was nonsense then Titans should not cost billions and yet we find the cost factor makes complete sense. It works on the large scale and on the small scale has it additional detail to it including a few twists. That is all right.

Sure it is. Just because I can tag a price of 1 ISK onto a Titan or a trillion ISK onto a frigate does not contradict it. Only idiots sell Titans for 1 ISK or pay a trillion for a frigate, and anyone who believes this contradicts ISK tanking is one of them idiots.

maybe you don't understand what "losing a ship" entails

hint, it entails losing the ship and everything in it, unless you manage to loot your wreck before someone else does

also last I heard miners don't keep whatever ore they mined when they were suicide ganked, nor do they get anything back

because, well, losses actually matter in this game unlike in whatever wretched themepark you came from

They still don't make a lot of sense.
When I checked officer mods an empty Titan hull costed 60-70B. An Estamel invuln at the time costed 12-15B on contracts.
Just putting 2-3 of such mods on a Titan would have been a massive drain, bringing the ship up by 30% of the price or more.

Considering those mods certainly don't give god mode, all I can see they would do - even on a Titan - is to provide a big giggles kill mail for the posterity to preserve and link when they want to show off a fool.

Could make it if you get killed in hi-sec only some of your mods are loot accessible for the gankers and you could get them back, or the percentage on the roll if a mod is lootable at all drops in chance.

Exactly and then lower that chance to 10% or less while in hi-sec....you sir are a frign genius.

Hi-sec does need more exceptions. It needs all the protection it can get from goonie exploitation.

No, just yours is, because this is a terrible response you are giving.

Goons do use their knowledge of 0.0 survival and apply it against high-sec players when really it should only be a necessity for 0.0 life. You only have no better challenges to go for.

Sure it should, but it cannot, because it is how most players start in EVE. You then do not teach them the necessary skills with what you do. What you do is like punching someone in the nose and expecting he now knows Jujitsu.

Right because every one has endless moon goo and isk and can buy everything they want day one in the game.

Hi-sec should be a more relaxed area of the game. It shouldnt be an area where the goons can manipulate with hulkagedeon and ganking.

This game can and should be for every play style not just the way you wish or want it or imagine it to be.

the moons has run dry?

endless means "without end". It does not mean anything about width.

so yes, unless moons are going dry moon goo is endless.

So yes changes need to continue to be implemented by CCP just like they did for mining barges to ensure no one group can exploit game mechanics.

mission income can be taken away by any off-war or few pilots suicide ganking. Sometime you even don't need to kill ratter to prevent his mission to pay.

moons on the contrary can not be taken from your alliance(s) at the time (show me 1 moon which was taken from TEST/PL/GOONS for last month)

People gank mission runners all the time and gank their mission fit ships all the time so yes they can be taken away.

funnily enough nobody has ever scanned down my drake except to ninja loot my mission and that's because it has an obscene tank b2b T2 meh loot drop if you can crack it.

And that's how you complacently bum your way around highsec.

The philosophical difference between me and yourself and people like you is I play in low/null/hi-sec. I feel because this is a MMORPG with PVE and PVP elements that there should be a division between the two that should allow game play for those that donGÇÖt want to have school yard bully tactics and broken game mechanic forced upon them.

Should this happen the person who is attacking the hi-sec person shouldnGÇÖt profit from it. The ganker is using hi-sec mechanics as a safety net to decide when they want to initiate combat on a target that is neither set up fit or prepared for PVP. You want to grief someone just because you can and you have the advantage all from the safety of the rules of hi-sec.

There are two other system null/low that are open pvp where people are fit ready and willing to fight. These people would not provide you the same sense school yard fulfillment because you might lose or look stupid.

If hi-sec is where you need to get your sense of nerd rage school yard bully fulfillment then you should not profit from it.

See thats were you are wrong. The changes brought about for the barges prove this. As well as Dev Soundwaves quote refference to those changes.

I don't think anything should be changed as such. Ganks should always occur and be profitable. However, I would favor a more severe penalty on the ganker. He can gank, but his sec status should drop dramatically. You can gank, sure, but then you know your sec rating will drop that much that you'll be busy ratting for a few weeks in low and null-sec before you can do it again.

Another of the balance issues I have is if you fit your mission ship for its mission then you open yourself up to possible gank. Again a hi-sec balance issue where the ganker is fit for pvp and the pve player is not.