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When will ccp fix bookmark copying?

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Elrathias	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:23:00 - [1] ok, right now im tired. for 4 hours ive been trying to copy a "larger" set of bookmarks out of my addressbook, into my cargohold. 1st try, i copy 384 out of 951 bookmarks. i got WTF and thinking that i release the shift key or something, it went wrong, so i delete them all, and try again. 2nd try, i copy 894 bookmarks. i go wtf, and am thinking ok, ill ty this again, somethings gotta be WRONG. 3rd try, with a wrench on my shift key, 600 or so. 4th try, a credit card stuck under my capslock and control button, presisng down the shift key, i copy a whopping 202 bookmarks. 5th try, creditcard again, 908 bookmarks. now im giving up, what the BEEP is wrong with this client? --------------------------
Sophie Mae	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:36:00 - [2] You only need to hold down the "shift" key not "caplock" until you drop the bookmarks into the can/hanger/cargo. I too have had weird problems with them all copying consistantly though. What I have done to get around this is to copy them in groups of no larger than 100 at a time.
Keta Min	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:43:00 - [3] yea ccp should remove instajumps, that would fix it. no more copying of "larger" sets!
Zerodragoon	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:53:00 - [4] Your trying to copy to many at once. Go a hundred or two at a time and mark down where you left off. I tend to have problems like that when I copy to many. -------
Dionysus Davinci	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:57:00 - [5] Also, don't do it at peak time.
Elrathias	Posted - 2005.08.26 19:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Zerodragoon Your trying to copy to many at once. Go a hundred or two at a time and mark down where you left off. I tend to have problems like that when I copy to many. to be honest, i copied a set of 18 earlier today, 15 were copied over properly. yes, yes, remove instajumps. makes life easier for me as that means less fleeing targets. im not against it. but every single hauler in the game, everyone who owns a freighter, everyone who frequently moves around will ocmplain when they have to log on for 4 hours just to move their char into empire. --------------------------
Kedo	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:25:00 - [7] If you ask me if they made it so you had to use a lab to copy bookmarks and it was relatively slowly it would solve the problem with instas because everyone would have to either do it themselves or do it the old fashioned way. Copying does have to remain in game though for some corp business/meeting locations, but the ability to copy more than 10 a day per person is not needed. -----------------------------------------------
Dave PSI	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Kedo If you ask me if they made it so you had to use a lab to copy bookmarks and it was relatively slowly it would solve the problem with instas because everyone would have to either do it themselves or do it the old fashioned way. Copying does have to remain in game though for some corp business/meeting locations, but the ability to copy more than 10 a day per person is not needed. Nice Idea :-) But to get back to the problem, for me it works perfect if i only copy 30-40bm at once.
Quanteeri	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:32:00 - [9] You shouldn't have to use a wrench to hold down your shift key. Once you see the first couple copy over into the cargo hold, let go of everything and go have a drink.
Elrathias	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:39:00 - [10] Originally by: Quanteeri You shouldn't have to use a wrench to hold down your shift key. Once you see the first couple copy over into the cargo hold, let go of everything and go have a drink. i did that too but excluded it from the exampled, it copied over 53/951 --------------------------

theRaptor	Posted - 2005.08.26 20:42:00 - [11] Its pure coincidence that the change to the speed of BM copying came in when CCP where talking about changing the BM system. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
Zaldiri	Posted - 2005.08.26 21:33:00 - [12] dosent think the client was ever designed to copy almost 1000 Bms at the same time Its your fault for using something that is basically a legalised exploit, that has never been given any official support by CCP ----------------------------------------------- Admiral of King Frieza's Super Saiyan fleet.
Tobiaz	Posted - 2005.08.26 22:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Elrathias ok, right now im tired. for 4 hours ive been trying to copy a "larger" set of bookmarks out of my addressbook, into my cargohold. 1st try, i copy 384 out of 951 bookmarks. i got WTF and thinking that i release the shift key or something, it went wrong, so i delete them all, and try again. 2nd try, i copy 894 bookmarks. i go wtf, and am thinking ok, ill ty this again, somethings gotta be WRONG. 3rd try, with a wrench on my shift key, 600 or so. 4th try, a credit card stuck under my capslock and control button, presisng down the shift key, i copy a whopping 202 bookmarks. 5th try, creditcard again, 908 bookmarks. now im giving up, what the BEEP is wrong with this client? Are you aware that one definition of insanity goes like this: "repeating the same action over and over again, expecting different results"? Spacerats recruiting!
F'nog	Posted - 2005.08.26 22:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Zaldiri dosent think the client was ever designed to copy almost 1000 Bms at the same time Its your fault for using something that is basically a legalised exploit, that has never been given any official support by CCP You do realize that the CCP-created player guide tells players how to make IGBMs. I'd call that a pretty official means of support. Originally by: Idio T Only two types of people I hate in this game: People who discriminate against other races, and the French.
IamBen	Posted - 2005.08.26 22:33:00 - [15] let people jump within 3 kilometers of something. Problem solved.
Elrathias	Posted - 2005.08.27 00:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Tobiaz Originally by: Elrathias ok, right now im tired. for 4 hours ive been trying to copy a "larger" set of bookmarks out of my addressbook, into my cargohold. 1st try, i copy 384 out of 951 bookmarks. i got WTF and thinking that i release the shift key or something, it went wrong, so i delete them all, and try again. 2nd try, i copy 894 bookmarks. i go wtf, and am thinking ok, ill ty this again, somethings gotta be WRONG. 3rd try, with a wrench on my shift key, 600 or so. 4th try, a credit card stuck under my capslock and control button, presisng down the shift key, i copy a whopping 202 bookmarks. 5th try, creditcard again, 908 bookmarks. now im giving up, what the BEEP is wrong with this client? Are you aware that one definition of insanity goes like this: "repeating the same action over and over again, expecting different results"? aye. but they were diffrent. so. err. well. --------------------------
Zenst	Posted - 2005.08.27 04:27:00 - [17] Well same with say few thousand BPC's it lags like a dead fish on a summer's day with the owner shouting jump flipper jump. I do feel that its perhaps due to the gui design and the handshaking interaction as it treats each file/BM as a seperat transaction and rinses and repeats instead of just going ok dupe all those in one big hit or move all those items from a<>b in one big hit. From a database level thats alot of seperate transaction moving items alone let alone copying and moving as is the case with bookmarks. I have observed a large CPU hit whilst doing any BM copying and bulk item moving so also suspect the client code may be partly to blame. We also have to look at gui's at whole - open a directory in windows with say 20,000 files - maybe your eve gamelog folder if you dont clear it often and see ho long it takes to move all those files or copy them to another directory. Now go do the same at a command/DOS prompt. ANother factor to consider is the code to prevent dupes, this must probably get called when you move/copy ANY item in game so all those BM's or BPC's or whatever in vlume gets checked one at a time instead of a large batch. As mentioned as for database level there treated one at a time so 1000 items will be at least 1000 databse transaction instead of say a simple update query changing container A to B, each item gets updated one at a time. This in itself from a technical aspect dont take much to see how this can lag the servers and indeed the client from a the aspect that it gets delayed handshaked back from the server and as such does (just the same as windows in its huge timeslicing loop) cause the client to pregnant pause. It is a tough one from a design aspect to address and even harder without exacting knowledge of how the client/server interaction/design works or shoudl work without breaking the EULA and reverse engineering the client/network code some, which we dont do givin such actions nomater how intentioned would be a vialation and prolly breaching silly DCMA copyright laws.... Anyhow if the code works as iI suspect and no reason to suspect otherwise (please devs enligten us ;o), then the only way to improve it would be some form of batching of actions which get processed at server end, but we would be on the verge of introducing some level of macroing here and thats not what eve seems to be about. Sooo how about taking anothe approach Bookmarks - well we do have gang options to warp - how about and its scary we dont have it atm the option to transmit bookmarks or groups of bookmarks to players, maybe restiict to range or numbers - skill it if you must or even make it a agent function, dont care how its done - just kinda erksome that with a spaceship and convo channels the ability to transmit cordinates would seem kinda waaaay opverlooked. I mean NPC agents do it so technicaly not that hard to do. As for BPC's well the ability to designate containers to get auto filled upto X volume and sorted would be handy, I mean we all dont have corp hangers at our disposale and I can think of more than 6 odd types orf item I'd like to sort. But there again were still awaiting a easy way to identify a copy or an original BP without close inspection. Finaly one option/possible solutionfacility that may prove usefule is filtering. now we have seen this in action nicely on the overview to the extent that to scan without it seems lagacidal. Now how about the ability to apply filters to your hanger or bookmarks with ease - less data for the client servers to work on and mungle up and may just make things a lickle bit more palatable. But bottom line is that NOTHING will happen until you get loads of you copying sevreal thousand bookmarks in protest in a major 1.0 system until CCP acknowledge the issue and are forced to address it in a more timely manner than stamping it with soon(c). BM copying protest in yulai anybody>?-/
theRaptor	Posted - 2005.08.27 07:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Zenst I do feel that its perhaps due to the gui design and the handshaking interaction as it treats each file/BM as a seperat transaction and rinses and repeats instead of just going ok dupe all those in one big hit or move all those items from a<>b in one big hit. From a database level thats alot of seperate transaction moving items alone let alone copying and moving as is the case with bookmarks. No it is deliberate. Right when CCP where talking about removing insta jumps we got a patch that made BM copying insanely slow. BM's are all server side as well, the only thing that is client side is folders. And the code for putting the BM's in folders is to simple to screw up. BM's where causing some amount of strain on the server so CCP slowed the copying down to discourage large batch copying. It used to be near instantaneous. That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die. -- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.08.27 07:54:00 - [19] if youre using dialup it takes much longer - allow 1 hor for each 600 BMs to copy.
mahhy	Posted - 2005.08.27 07:55:00 - [20] Originally by: theRaptor No it is deliberate. Right when CCP where talking about removing insta jumps we got a patch that made BM copying insanely slow. So why the bleep did they slow down the eve mail so much?? Website/Forums/TeamSpeak For ISK

Vishnej	Posted - 2005.08.27 09:47:00 - [21] Edited by: Vishnej on 27/08/2005 09:49:05 Originally by: mahhy Originally by: theRaptor No it is deliberate. Right when CCP where talking about removing insta jumps we got a patch that made BM copying insanely slow. So why the bleep did they slow down the eve mail so much?? As a newish player... Is this for real? Which patch slowed down evemail and BMs? The lag associated with evemails and BMs is one of the major problems with game performance at this time - made all the worse because these are all-text objects whose manipulation should be insanely easy for a client-server architecture sophisticated enough to handle an MMO.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.08.27 10:02:00 - [22] mmmm well i guess thats the way it is wait for more optimisations
Galk	Posted - 2005.08.27 10:17:00 - [23] It works.. your client will lock up though. Copied 1500 odd a few times, i just ram a peice of paper in the keboard and clear off out while it does it's thang. -------- 23 Arguing that namechanging would promote griefing is somewhat moot given the current FFA on that front. 'Danton Marcellus'
hashishi	Posted - 2005.08.27 13:25:00 - [24] Who knows what the actual reason is but i experienced this quite often, and it is always the worst when you have in-station lag as well. The more you copy also, at same time better chance of getting fuxored. Sometimes a set of 40 will not make it all over. holding SHIFT or any other key is NO guarantee thay will all make it. In the end, make sure your in-station lag isn't too bad, and unfortunately, suck it up and copy them in blocks of 60/80/100, and mark spot as other char here posted. With no major lag after doing this the 10+ times for 600 BM's and taking over 20 minutes (at least), you should finally have a set. good luck, the process and time it takes is a mess, but this is only way ive been able to get my large sets copied intact.
Raindrop	Posted - 2005.08.27 13:37:00 - [25] It also depends on the client. On my slow second account machine i can't copy more then 100 bm's at once. On my fast main account computer i can copy over 300 bm's at once. But in empire it's slower and it has glitches in them then. 0.0 is the best place to copy bm's. It goes faster and less errors. Raindrop 100% Carebear and loving it. Collector of junk and leftovers. NPC and low end minerals trader. Hauler.
Elrathias	Posted - 2005.08.27 19:49:00 - [26] Originally by: Raindrop It also depends on the client. On my slow second account machine i can't copy more then 100 bm's at once. On my fast main account computer i can copy over 300 bm's at once. But in empire it's slower and it has glitches in them then. 0.0 is the best place to copy bm's. It goes faster and less errors. but why does it do that? how much cpu is used for doing item120319241 *2>item12409123850.cargohold ? that is just. insane. --------------------------
Tar om	Posted - 2005.08.27 19:59:00 - [27] Originally by: Zaldiri dosent think the client was ever designed to copy almost 1000 Bms at the same time Its your fault for using something that is basically a legalised exploit, that has never been given any official support by CCP what utter carp -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com
Tricore	Posted - 2005.08.27 22:24:00 - [28] See here: Quote: Instajumps Incorporate into gameplay instajumps that is has a permanent cost of use, especially diminishing offensive capability (like warp core stabilizers), works with autopilot but is counterable with mobile warp disruptors and other nifty means. Requires other compensations to travel time such as Project Rebirth and Rapid Battlefield Deployment. Project Rebirth A concept which aims to revolutionize travel in EVE over long distances. A number of possibilities are being looked into, the most interesting is to incorporate something everyone does or has done into gameplay - clone-jumping - without having to kill oneself. Key thing to enable this is that this is only transferring your personality and nothing more. You require a ship and everything else on the destination location. Of course there are lots of limitations to this, issues to look into and restrictions to where you can jump, like, not directly into enemy space or into Outpost which already prevent you from docking. Except if you have a Carrier or Titan close by perhaps? Intruiging ... :) Rapid Battlefield Deployment Rapid Deployment of a pilot to a battlefield relies on something like Project Rebirth, where you can deploy your force straight into the Battlefield given that you have the available infrastructure and resources on the Battlefield. An example of a battlefield resource required for rapid deployment of one pilot would be a ship, fitted with modules and ammunition (or have that in a location where the pilot can fit the modules and load ammunition), a structure or ship which can recieve the pilot via rapid deployment. Such a ship would be a Carrier or a Titan and the structure could be an Outpost or Starbase.
Vishnej	Posted - 2005.10.16 22:05:00 - [29] /emote is down with the thread Ressurection Okay, bookmark set made and needs to be distributed, and I can't get a single copy right in two hours. So how do people like BookmarkKing work? How do bookmarks get distributed in the first place? There has to be SOME way to copy mass numbers of bookmarks (in my case ~800) reliably. Is there some way to do it client side? Is there a trick? So far all I've heard is to minimize Eve, which seems to speed it up a little bit, but it still misses BMs. ----------------- T2 Destroyers: a proposal
Jet Calhoun	Posted - 2005.10.17 00:36:00 - [30] Do them in small(er) chunks at a time.



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