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Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.08.27 11:41:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Sarkos on 27/08/2005 11:42:32
 Originally by: Noriath
Yea, this entire "Race determines function" stuff in Eve is killing roleplaying anyways. It's ok if thigs aren't the same from one race to the other, but some aspects of the game are completly restricted to single races, without even offering similar systems to others...
Agreed. I dont understand why each race's Outpost were not treated like a huge unmovable ship. Each would have a certain amount of space to add the sections you wanted. It could have be done so that a Refinery took up so much space there was no space for Factories also. Having 'Race specific' is in my humble opinion not a great idea. I guess the Minmatar never build things and the Amarr are so good they build from raw ore. :)
But seriously, for the cost of these items, why can't you design them to include what you WANT in them? Really CCP, you can put up a POS tower and slap anything you want on them as long as you are in the power and CPU range, you can do the same with any ship, again keeping to the limits of Power and CPU. Why now do you force a strict prebuilt only version of an Outpost for each race? It's an artificial limitation that makes no sence, is not needed and certainly not wanted by the player base.
In a game like EVE, where you have always promoted such great flexability with careers and such, it seems such a backward trend to force people to have to make several different race's outposts to achieve what they desire. It's like saying ships can not be alterd, as they only come built with a set model, so if you want to use EW, you need to buy and use only a Caldari ship. Having Outpost set up the way you do now is counter logical to all the arguments ever made for the flexability of EVE.
Sarkos
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.08.27 12:24:00 -
[32]
Bear in mind that outposts are mere stubs, and outpost isnt the end-all of development. Based on dev comments, I think it's clear that you will be able to upgrade outposts, perhaps even into full-fledged stations.
Also, POS will get factories and labs.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Fendor Atar
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Posted - 2005.08.27 13:02:00 -
[33]
now if u are a RP you should stick to ships/bases that fit with ure race for ex
Amarr - Caldari & Amarr ships and bases
Minmatar - Gallente & Minmatar ships and bases
now they differances between the races has always been a good thing but taking these differances to starbases and outposts is not a good idea in my eyes as ive understood the minmatar outpost is the dominant for any kind of industry witch is just silly... why wouldnt any of the otehr races be able to have good industry?
ships should be different but bases shouldnt only thing i would like to see on outposts is a slight race bonus but nothing major
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.08.27 13:22:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Garreck on 27/08/2005 13:22:10
Yeah, I've gotta call "double standard" on this one, Sarkos. It's bad roleplay for an amarrian outpost to require slaves, but good roleplay for an anti-slaver alliance to use an amarr outpost? The argument doesn't hold water. And if "doing anything for the cause" is enough justification, then just tell those 7500 slaves "it's for the cause, my brothers!"
And, yes, I would hold loyalist alliances/corporations to the same standard. Sacrificing in-game supremacy for pure roleplay earns huge coolpoints in my book. Re: "amarr-ships only" flown by PIE.
Garreck
Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.08.27 14:17:00 -
[35]
Sine you can't easily free slaves ingame just RP them as a hired free labour force.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.27 14:20:00 -
[36]
Originally by: theRaptor
Sine you can't easily free slaves ingame just RP them as a hired free labour force.
Quoted for truth.
Pretend those slaves are freed slaves, living comfortably on the amarrian outpost. Roleplay is all 'bout pretending, anyway, why not pretend those slaves aren't something else.
[23]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2005.08.27 14:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sarkos
But seriously, for the cost of these items, why can't you design them to include what you WANT in them? Really CCP, you can put up a POS tower and slap anything you want on them as long as you are in the power and CPU range, you can do the same with any ship, again keeping to the limits of Power and CPU. Why now do you force a strict prebuilt only version of an Outpost for each race? It's an artificial limitation that makes no sence, is not needed and certainly not wanted by the player base.
In a game like EVE, where you have always promoted such great flexability with careers and such, it seems such a backward trend to force people to have to make several different race's outposts to achieve what they desire. It's like saying ships can not be alterd, as they only come built with a set model, so if you want to use EW, you need to buy and use only a Caldari ship. Having Outpost set up the way you do now is counter logical to all the arguments ever made for the flexability of EVE.
Sarkos
Coz these are outposts. They're not stations 
[23]
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Kalahari Wayrest
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Posted - 2005.08.27 14:30:00 -
[38]
Quote:
now if u are a RP you should stick to ships/bases that fit with ure race for ex
Quote:
And, yes, I would hold loyalist alliances/corporations to the same standard. Sacrificing in-game supremacy for pure roleplay earns huge coolpoints in my book. Re: "amarr-ships only" flown by PIE.
I can't believe so many people think this 
Yeah, ok, it would work if they were utterly utterly fanatic and repelled by another race, then that race's ship wouldn't appeal. (like PIE and TPFM I think)
But for corps and alliances who have more than one race group? or people who don't hate or generalise an entire race?
There was a roleplay group around ages ago, I doubt they're about anymore, but their whole goal was to fight the amarr empire using their own technology against them, and that was all they flew. Points for originality earns huge cool points in my book 
I wouldn't drive only british made cars  that'd be nuts.
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Garreck
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Posted - 2005.08.27 14:33:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Garreck on 27/08/2005 14:36:55
Originally by: Kalahari Wayrest
Quote:
now if u are a RP you should stick to ships/bases that fit with ure race for ex
Quote:
And, yes, I would hold loyalist alliances/corporations to the same standard. Sacrificing in-game supremacy for pure roleplay earns huge coolpoints in my book. Re: "amarr-ships only" flown by PIE.
I can't believe so many people think this
Yeah, ok, it would work if they were utterly utterly fanatic and repelled by another race, then that race's ship wouldn't appeal. (like PIE and TPFM I think)
But for corps and alliances who have more than one race group? or people who don't hate or generalise an entire race?
There was a roleplay group around ages ago, I doubt they're about anymore, but their whole goal was to fight the amarr empire using their own technology against them, and that was all they flew. Points for originality earns huge cool points in my book
I wouldn't drive only british made cars that'd be nuts.
Woa woa woa...don't quote me with somebody else and change context. I'm talking about Sarkos, coming from a raving anti-amarrian, anti-slaver alliance...wanting to use slaver tech. That's all. Other rp alliances/corps may not have that problem. Alliances do need to be responsible for their rp stance, though, and not complain when game mechanics limit their options. PIE has to overcome a whole lot when they fly into combat against enemies who know they only use amarr vessels...but that doesn't stop PIE from being terribly effective. If you're going to paint yourself in a corner with extremist rp, learn how to use the tools you "allow" yourself to use.
Garreck
Aeternus Crusade
Aku. Soku. Zan. |
Kalahari Wayrest
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Posted - 2005.08.27 14:37:00 -
[40]
*scratches head* wasn't intentional, I'm not smart enough to be a spin doctor of any kind
Alright, apply most of what I said to the other guy 
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.27 15:11:00 -
[41]
sarkos,
i see where your coming from, i believe instead of changing requirements like slaves for amarr outpost (which is good rp btw) you really need to think about adding racial bonuses such as refinery 30% minmatar 40% amarr , factory bonuses diff for each race.
so instead of having each races outpost too specialized, have them all function the same as regular stations of all races with bonuses balanced out accordingly
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2005.08.27 15:56:00 -
[42]
The fundamental point is if you want to build a manufacturing station, you have to build an Amarrian station, and that means you are obligated to use slave labor. That's not RP: that's Devs with their head in the wrong spot.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.08.27 16:01:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Danton Marcellus on 27/08/2005 16:09:35
Originally by: Fendor Atar
now if u are a RP you should stick to ships/bases that fit with ure race for ex
Amarr - Caldari & Amarr ships and bases
Minmatar - Gallente & Minmatar ships and bases
Someone's got a very narrow and discouraging view on RP. Is it also genetically programmed that the caldari must hunt everything with a bounty on it? 
I find CCPs choice to make POS' and outposts racially specific utterly conforming, if anything they should offer a slight bonus for RP corporations to go strictly racial and let everyone else mix and match since they already sold the farm on the race program where it mattered with ships back when...
I'd say there are too few choices in outpost makes for one and having to build outside the prefered race to get what services you want, well if racially strict is the aim that sure was a counterproductive move.
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MuthaTrucka
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Posted - 2005.08.27 16:04:00 -
[44]
You don't "Need" a factory outpost at all you can just build the other outposts and use the factory slots there. What you are complaining about is you "Want" to build a outpost with 20 slots in the same place.
Stop confusing what you want and what you need. I "want" to be able to build a refining outpost using the 80k or so Slaves I have, But I don't "need" to use them. As fitting as it would be for an Amarr character to build a minimater Outpost using Slaves it just does not "need" to happen.
---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.
[SeXin Up Foyle] |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.27 16:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Fendor Atar
now if u are a RP you should stick to ships/bases that fit with ure race for ex
Amarr - Caldari & Amarr ships and bases
Minmatar - Gallente & Minmatar ships and bases
Well and then you already have to acknowledge that not really practical for Minmatar - Gallente sicne they won't have any decent EW ships while having absoloutly nothing that could offset such an extreme disadvantage, since they don't even have a single ship with more then 5 medslots!
That's exactly what i've been talking about when I said that some systems are completly limited to some races, which makes it impossible to compete if you limit yourself to one or two races...
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Terranid Meester
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Posted - 2005.08.27 16:36:00 -
[46]
If you want an Amarr Outpost then you could always take over one (or try to) and liberate the slaves from their Amarr masters.
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DeathForMeh
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Posted - 2005.08.27 17:35:00 -
[47]
Edited by: DeathForMeh on 27/08/2005 17:35:57
Well since amarr slaves are mimtar cant you just be like their are brothers working to help us fight the good fight or something?
Though I do think it would have been smart to let you add your owen stuff to stations and just gave racial types bouneses to race. Like amarr factory slots would take 50% less cpu/grid then any other race, same with Minmatar but for refinery. Its to bad its far to late to implement that.
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Originally by: Deja Thoris
Every race is whining - it must be close to balanced.
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2005.08.27 17:54:00 -
[48]
I think the outpost requiring slaves is extremely cool.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.27 18:13:00 -
[49]
Yea, it is... but it isn't cool that you can only have a factory in your outpost if you build an Amarr one...
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Psionist
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Posted - 2005.08.27 18:15:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Psionist on 27/08/2005 18:18:16
Just pretend you're giving the 'slaves' actual jobs. You're 'liberating' them and giving them gainful employment, a place to raise a family, shelter from harsh amarr slavemasters.
Be a pal and toss them some exoitic dancers. : )
I'd like to announce for all you RP organizations that I am opening a charity today. All donations accepted, all money will go towards building an Amarr outpost and stocking it with freed slaves to give them a way to earn their money and be free.
Originally by: Noriath
Yea, it is... but it isn't cool that you can only have a factory in your outpost if you build an Amarr one...
Uh, the other outposts have factories. The amarr one just has -more- factories.
(Off topic, but have you ever wondered WHY an amarr outpost has more factories? Because they have slaves working them!)
-----
Acrocorp, Corporate Advisor
Ph.D. Hydromagnetic Physics, Cybernetics, Quantum Physics.
Lt. Colonel(Retired) and Proud Veteran of the Gallente/Caldari Wars. |
Elrathias
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Posted - 2005.08.27 18:17:00 -
[51]
well their minmatar. use some welders, nuts, bolts and weld on a factory module. haul it out there in a freighter.
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Psionist
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Posted - 2005.08.27 18:22:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Elrathias
well their minmatar. use some welders, nuts, bolts and weld on a factory module. haul it out there in a freighter.
Could just take like 32,000 minmatar frigates and weld them together. The result would look like a normal minmatar station. : )
-----
Acrocorp, Corporate Advisor
Ph.D. Hydromagnetic Physics, Cybernetics, Quantum Physics.
Lt. Colonel(Retired) and Proud Veteran of the Gallente/Caldari Wars. |
Noriath
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Posted - 2005.08.27 18:34:00 -
[53]
Yea they do have factorries, but it's still stupid that the number of factories is determined by the race... Why can't people just choose what kind of outpost they want to build without building one of completly foreign design...
That's like saying that the french can't build factories but the british can't do research.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2005.08.27 20:09:00 -
[54]
The real problem is that the Outposts are race specific and not modular so you are forced to build a multi billion investment which has been pre-nerfed into oblivion. You should be able to choose what you build onto your outpost. Its not hard to do - even Jumpgate did it years ago.
CCP did a bad job on this. (Uncharacteristicly I will admit).
Tar om
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Bonaventure Augustus
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Posted - 2005.08.27 20:44:00 -
[55]
Rather than the U'K, or any minmatar building one of these dens of horror, I believe it is the duty of the Minmatar freedom fighters to keep a close eye on all station construction, and send a force to prevent the installation of any of these slave-consuming monstrosities.
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. |
Ciar Meara
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Posted - 2005.08.27 22:39:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Ciar Meara on 27/08/2005 22:38:59
I couldn't be gladder as an amarrian rp that we have to use slaves to build an outpost, its the most logical thing ever.
We amarr let all our dangerous work be done by slaves so "slaving" away in zero G building a big station in dangerous circumstances seems a perfect job for slaves...I only regret we don't have to supply the vitoc, slavers and exotic dancers and spiced wine for the marines!
PIE Inc
A friend of death, a brother of luck and a son of a *****
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.27 23:45:00 -
[57]
i THINK, not an rper myself, that minnie freedom figthers are willing to use any races ship as long as it gets the job done, which sets them apart from the amarr ones that HAVE to use amarr ones (one of the folies ;p) but, if fighting against slavery is their whole purpose they damn well cant put slaves into it! ;p
im not an rper but im go for it :|
also u amarr arent supposed to have anything other then the amarr outpost so it doesnt matter ;p and i dont think that everything u use just HAS to have slaves, frigs and stuff? no slaves in them i think ;p no frigs for u cause it doesnt have slaves!
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Idara
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Posted - 2005.08.27 23:53:00 -
[58]
That's awesome! 7500 Minnie's to run a nice Amarr outpost eh...should set one up just to eat slaves.
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Deva Dimentia
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Posted - 2005.08.28 01:49:00 -
[59]
The Gallente one should have exsotic dancers too, after all we Gallente need our entertainment too. The Amarr one should still require the slaves I do agree that in a RP situation it shouldnt if you are a non amarr race building it but due to game restritions its most likely not able to give amarr charaters 1 type of build requirements while giving non amarr races a diffrent one.
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Sarkos
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Posted - 2005.08.28 07:52:00 -
[60]
Now for the record, I am not,nor never have been anti-Amarr. I am very much anti-slavery though. From a personal RP point, I am a Tahiri in Masuat'aa Matari, that is one who uses only Minmatar designed ships and weapons, unless as in the mining barge there is no Minmatar option. The Urai warriors will use whatever they want to accomplish a goal.
However a POS or Outpost or even a station does not apply to such thinking as they are not put into a position to test against a 'so called' superior enemy vessel. I am a Minmatar purist when it comes to warfare, and this includes the days when NO ONE flew Minmatar ships or used projectiles.
Sarkos
Either free the slaves or we will come and get them.
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