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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 01:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 29/08/2005 02:01:17
Edited by: Dao 2 on 29/08/2005 01:59:43
Alright ;p well i aint saying anything but just to let it roll around in ppl minds...
i think ccp said they have 60k+ user accounts? pretty sure.....
and giving a discount (though i think im too pessimistic on this one im putting the price at $12.50 a month (sorry im doin it in dollars for all the uk guys just what im used too...)
my numbers still seem to be wrong to be but CCP is making (though not all profit of course.... staff costs, bandwith and all costs, blah blah, dev stuff costs, blah blah all the costs that come with an MMO.
ok... well on to the point. with 60k active users payin 12.5 $ a month CCP should be making $750,000 a month.... that number seems more than it should be to me and i cant shake off the feeling i %%%%%% up somwhere so if i did correct me :|
if i didnt
wow
$750,000
edit: wow i spelled feeling filling....
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Sochin
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Posted - 2005.08.29 02:03:00 -
[2]
I'd have to imagine that bandwidth costs alone are a significant chunk of that. Add the cost of the constant server upgrades, the customer support teams, ect you've got a pretty hefty bill even before you start paying the dev team.
Nemo me impune lacessit
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 02:04:00 -
[3]
server upgrades? no offense but i see maybe 1k or not much more tops at peak times then i did when i joined, they may have upgraded them but my lag is worse then before, and i ctd a lot more....
bandwith costs i agree, but i still think theyre making a hefty profit
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Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.29 02:08:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hakera on 29/08/2005 02:08:47
iirc they said the break even point was 40k accounts. However that was a good year ago so lets assume costs have risen ~10% for wages, new staff, server rent/upgrade/bandwidth, new equipment etc and puts the new break even at 50k, so thats maybe 10k subscriptions as profit. Which is $125,000 a month profit against an operating cost of $625,000 or 20%, the real figure is probably much lower as these are all pure guesses but lets hope it much higher so they have lots of capital to invest into tq :)
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 02:11:00 -
[5]
the last server upgrade i heard about were the new nodes a bit after i joined, which i still think was a bad idea cause its gone down hill since then...
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 02:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 29/08/2005 02:15:58
Edited by: Dao 2 on 29/08/2005 02:14:50
750k A MONTH, not a year.... ;p btw i read in a few articles that developers put in to much hours and get paid to little....
edit: thats 9mil a year for 60k users, they said 60k +
and also they startup costs for a game need to be factored in too i guess....
2nd edit: they only run one cluster of servers so bandwith and server upgrades should be much cheaper then most average mmos.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.29 02:13:00 -
[7]
They have over 50 developers alone on the payroll.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Gierling
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Posted - 2005.08.29 05:03:00 -
[8]
750k a month is NOT that much money.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
stumpyloo
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Posted - 2005.08.29 06:13:00 -
[9]
Plus whoever they use to take the cash from the players takes a slice to.
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2005.08.29 08:06:00 -
[10]
cool if you take that profit figure they'll have enough cash to st art making eve2 in about 3 years or so.. good timing. :)
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Tekka
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Posted - 2005.08.29 08:34:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Tekka on 29/08/2005 08:34:13
 Originally by: Gierling
750k a month is NOT that much money.
Ill gladly take 750k USD if its not too much
Originally by: Kipkruide
cool if you take that profit figure they'll have enough cash to st art making eve2 in about 3 years or so.. good timing. :)
There IS no EVE¦.
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Up2 NoGood
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Posted - 2005.08.29 08:41:00 -
[12]
Think bout how much that horrid game WOW makes. Compare that to the scraps CCP makes for its great game  .
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Lord Artemis
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Posted - 2005.08.29 09:12:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gierling
750k a month is NOT that much money.
 id be happy as crap on 7.5k a month
___________________________
Aegis Militia Conclave official representative |
Draximus Cane
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Posted - 2005.08.29 09:19:00 -
[14]
Worth every penny to be honest
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 10:12:00 -
[15]
;p
yeah they do make a lot of money on the side too...
and blizzard doesnt need wow theyre more then rich already
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Gungankllr
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Posted - 2005.08.29 12:52:00 -
[16]
Add to that 750k a month the following:
1. Items sold in the Eve-Online store
2. Character transfers, changing portraits, other related billing
3. An extra 210k a month to bring it closer to the real amount of money CCP makes per month on the game, since the monthly fee is more like $15.99 a month. (Rounding up by one penny to $16.00 a month)
4. Subscription fees for the Eve-online magazine
Now subtract the following:
1. Taxes
2. Legal fees
3. Publishing costs for Eve-online magazine
4. Payroll
5. Server costs
6. Rent (Including utilities)
7. Advertising (Magazines, online promotions)
8. Travel expenses (Hotels, car rentals, beer)
9. Insurance
10. Various other unforseeable expenses
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Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.08.29 13:14:00 -
[17]
What's the point of speculating about CCP earnings?
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Death Merchant
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Posted - 2005.08.29 13:37:00 -
[18]
Whatever it takes to keep eve going and make the incentive high enough to keep persuing fixes and to add new contact is good to me. I dont care how much profit they make.
Also keep in mind. They also have to make up for startup development cost that were incurred before the game start selling/subscriptions.
Bandwidth is probably their highest monthly expense by a long shot.
DM
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.08.29 14:40:00 -
[19]
/me pulls a moonie
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Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.08.29 15:08:00 -
[20]
The people who create this amazing game deserve to have gold plated bath tubs if you ask me. Still, I'm pretty sure they'll have to wait a lot longer for their tubs than we have to wait for say a zealot 
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.08.29 15:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gungankllr
Add to that 750k a month the following:
1. Items sold in the Eve-Online store
2. Character transfers, changing portraits, other related billing
3. An extra 210k a month to bring it closer to the real amount of money CCP makes per month on the game, since the monthly fee is more like $15.99 a month. (Rounding up by one penny to $16.00 a month)
4. Subscription fees for the Eve-online magazine
Now subtract the following:
1. Taxes
2. Legal fees
3. Publishing costs for Eve-online magazine
4. Payroll
5. Server costs
6. Rent (Including utilities)
7. Advertising (Magazines, online promotions)
8. Travel expenses (Hotels, car rentals, beer)
9. Insurance
10. Various other unforseeable expenses
You did not include expenses like attending gaming events, the fanfest, licenses for development tools. All of these will be quite substantial.
Bottom line is this :-
They have risked a lot to make an awesome product. They deserve to make a profit. The figures you are talking about are tiny (in the business context)
Lets compare this to BP, whose turnover was $285,000,000,000 (285 BILLION)
Go post on their website and tell them they make too much
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Andrue
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Posted - 2005.08.29 16:06:00 -
[22]
It's a private company producing a luxury service. IMO that means they can charge what they want. No-one will suffer unduly if they can't /won't pay it so it's entirely their choice.
Under UK law at least (and probably most jurisdictions) they only have an obligation to make the charge obvious. Well technically it has to be a reasonable charge as well but defining 'reasonable' legally is difficult and often comes down to 'what the market is willing to pay'.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
darth solo
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Posted - 2005.08.29 16:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Gierling
750k a month is NOT that much money.
its not isk btw... its like real cash.
d solo.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 18:50:00 -
[24]
well i decided to figure out the costs cause i was curious and the numbers suprised me so i thought id share ;p
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Virtuozzo
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Posted - 2005.08.29 19:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Gungankllr
Add to that 750k a month the following:
1. Items sold in the Eve-Online store
2. Character transfers, changing portraits, other related billing
3. An extra 210k a month to bring it closer to the real amount of money CCP makes per month on the game, since the monthly fee is more like $15.99 a month. (Rounding up by one penny to $16.00 a month)
4. Subscription fees for the Eve-online magazine
Now subtract the following:
1. Taxes
2. Legal fees
3. Publishing costs for Eve-online magazine
4. Payroll
5. Server costs
6. Rent (Including utilities)
7. Advertising (Magazines, online promotions)
8. Travel expenses (Hotels, car rentals, beer)
9. Insurance
10. Various other unforseeable expenses
You forgot
11. Exotic Dancers.
Virtuozzo
RECRUITMENT TEASERS. Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" |
Nostradamu5
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:21:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Nostradamu5 on 29/08/2005 21:00:18
Originally by: Dao 2
well i decided to figure out the costs cause i was curious and the numbers suprised me so i thought id share ;p
You really don't have much to do with your time do ya?
Go get a "real" job and maybe the $12.50 won't seem like so much.
Damn 12.50 is the cheapest bill I pay, I wish all my other bills would turn into "$12.50". |
Robert De'Arneth
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:02:00 -
[27]
Well i thought i would post just to give you an idea, Now i Work for a company that has 15 Employee's. We have Averaged 8.5 mill to 9.5 mil in sales over the last 3 years. The reason i decided to post, is you claim at 9 mil they would be making a good profit. Now i am not sure of their overhead, but i am gonna assume they have more than 15 employess. Now i know we break even at 9.2 million. Which makes believe you are way off on your profit margin.
Of course without all the facts, ie all their bills including salary, it is pointless to sit here and claim they are making alot of profit. You can say they make this much and that much on this, but you realy have no idea at all. CCP is not a company i found on any trades. which means they do not need to disclose any info. at least that is how our company is.
So no one but CCP can make a claim on what they make, And to a small bussiness 750k is alot of sales, it could be the differance in profit or another loss.
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Captin Biltmore
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:31:00 -
[28]
I too work for a small internet/telecom company, and can tell you for a fact that CCP is NOT banking major bucks with everyone driving ferrari's. My corp has about the same ammount of employees (aprox 80-100) and we are making a GOOD bit more than you estimated CCP is making, yet we are still only 'just' floating. The venture capitol to start a company like this is no small beans....and investors only invest if they are getting a return on their investment. This means all that seed money must be paid back plus profits to your investors. Then you have monthly operating costs. We spend probably $3-400K a MONTH on bandwith alone (non used backup fiber lines are expensive). I think we spend something like $50K a month on just our electric bill...and our phone bill...jesus. We aren't even talking about employee wages yet (which are up there). All in all I think we have about $1-1.5mil simply change hands every month. This is without the company pulling in a profit that would allow for hardware upgrades, bonuses, raises, unexpected expenses, etc, etc. And we OWN our building, so we have no rent to pay.
I personally wouldn't mind CCP charging around $20 for this game a month....but then again I have seen the insides of a company like CCP and know what it takes to run. I'd be curious as to how much investment capitol they had to start with, and what the interest rate is on that money. Just Jan of this year we finally paid off all our initial investors and are currently floating on our own....this was almost 7 years after the company started (1998). By next year the company can start thinking about rewarding the employees (ME!!, YEA!!) with raises etc.
You are doing a fine job of keeping the costs so low ccp.
Assasin For Hire - Contact in game |
Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:33:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 29/08/2005 22:34:11
Originally by: Nostradamu5
Edited by: Nostradamu5 on 29/08/2005 21:00:18
Originally by: Dao 2
well i decided to figure out the costs cause i was curious and the numbers suprised me so i thought id share ;p
You really don't have much to do with your time do ya?
Go get a "real" job and maybe the $12.50 won't seem like so much.
Damn 12.50 is the cheapest bill I pay, I wish all my other bills would turn into "$12.50".
thx a lot....
im a student and cant get a job, during the summer i had a job (recently quit a couple days ago)
thx a lot for beefing me out, cause obviously everyone has jobs and is rich and i wasted 10 seconds of my time figuring it out and another 2min on this thread originally! \o/
jeez
edit: when the hell did i say it was to much? i wasnt implieng that... but i do have probelms with payment towards the end of the school year
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Ronzap
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:46:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dao 2
You really don't have much to do with your time do ya?
Go get a "real" job and maybe the $12.50 won't seem like so much.
Damn 12.50 is the cheapest bill I pay, I wish all my other bills would turn into "$12.50".
thx a lot....
im a student and cant get a job, during the summer i had a job (recently quit a couple days ago)
thx a lot for beefing me out, cause obviously everyone has jobs and is rich and i wasted 10 seconds of my time figuring it out and another 2min on this thread originally! \o/
jeez
edit: when the hell did i say it was to much? i wasnt implieng that... but i do have probelms with payment towards the end of the school year
So what you're saying is you cannot afford to play the game. Perhaps you could swap a couple of the hours you spend playing the game doing a little part time work to fund the rest of your week.
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:49:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 29/08/2005 22:50:06
a) i have TROUBLE paying for the game at the end of the school year
b) rents dont let me have a job during the school year
c) i have to pay for a lot of my stuff and with no job during school year and no allowance i get low on funds. and i do go to work briefly on vacations
edit: btw i have a full time job in the summer
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infused
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:20:00 -
[32]
Edited by: infused on 29/08/2005 23:26:49
What gives you the right to question how much they make? That is damm rude TBH.
I'll gladly keep paying my fees. I run a small hosting company and it costs hella money to run these operations. You forget, these are Windows servers, windows licencing which is $$$$, IBM support plans $$$$, 24/7 network team $$$ customer suport $$$ and upgrades. One server I imgine would be in the range of $10,000 with all its licencing and hardware.
If you can't afford to pay, don't play, simple as that really.
Whatever you are smoking, stop.
To whoever asked about what CCP started with... As I rememebr, they got a government grant (that is how I started my business) and they injected their own money into it. Download the CPP videos of when it all started. It's all explained there.
[EvE Domination]
YARRRRRR!!!!!!!!! |
hafhal
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Posted - 2005.08.29 23:42:00 -
[33]
Let¦s not forget that most of CCP expenses are in Isk, and 750K $ today is not nearly as much as it used to be.
Here a two pictures of the devolopment of the dollar and the euro towards isk for the last three years.
Dollar
Euro
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Dao 2
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Posted - 2005.08.30 01:38:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 30/08/2005 01:41:31
Edited by: Dao 2 on 30/08/2005 01:39:00
jesus christ what is up with u ppl
WHEN THE HELL DID I SAY I DIDNT WANT TO PAY THESE FEES?! WHEN THE HELL DID I SAY THAT ITS TO MUCH?! WHEN THE HELL DID I SAY THEYRE BEING GREEDY AND DONT DESERVE MONEY?! HELL I EVEN POINTED OUT THAT SOME OF ITS TO COVER THE STARTUP COSTS!
edit: AND WHE THE HELL DID I 'QUESTION' HOW MUCH MONEY THEY MAKE?! i said i think they make this much money, never said its a good or bad thing, i said it was a lot, i also said ive seen more lag and no upgraded ervers but that was a response not in my original god damn post
edit again.... jeez ive calmed down a bit so i wont use caps but im not gonna delete all the stuff i wrote cause serious when the F*** did i say i didnt want to pay these fees? when did i say they ere to much? i said i have trouble with them... i said they ere due to my own rl probelms... did i ask at all for a lower/removing of fees? wtf are YOU smoking?!
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Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.30 03:06:00 -
[35]
A mmorpg needs about 100-120k subscribers to be a profitable bussiness. Not "every dev drives ferrari" bussiness but good enough to bank some. At 60k+ I assume they make a decent living but nothing to write home about
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