It's the leadership of both the State and the Federation that are at fault.

Every time the Gallente and Caldari clash, it's only making others in the cluster stronger.

Specifially, a certain empire that enslaves individuals and brainwashes them into their religious ideology.

Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.

The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State.

Both of these are true only as long as the State remains in direct competition with the Gallente.

Let it go. It's simply not worth the effort and sacrifices that are being made on its behalf.

Even if the State was somehow able to hold onto the planet, its full of Federal citizens who do not want to be under State authority, who will rise up. With the destruction of the Shiigeru and its escorts, there's nothing in orbit to stop the Federal Navy from acting with impunity.

No. The State and the Empire are close in other areas. State-Kingdom relations are very high. The State is the Empire's primary trading partner for our minerals. The Empire invested in the State, and the State in return offered schooling for those of us emancipated five years ago. There is also our joint research projects.

Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.

I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.

Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.

If we allow Gallente to have it, then all peoples on CN Shiigeru and many other ships, including those, that were commanded by me, died for nothing. We must continue the fight in memory of those, who were fighting among us, and to make future for those, who will live after us.

Miss Nihil isn't Caldari. She's a member of an anarchist organization, one of whose stated goals is the destruction of the State as an entity, and necessarily, Caldari culture along with it. Taking her advice about what the State should do is only slightly better than taking the advice of EOM.

Your words would carry more weight, Ms. Nihil, if you lived with your people, or expressed an iota of support for them. To date I have seen nothing but derision from you towards the Caldari.

How many of us must turn our backs to you before you realize this?

Our two empires are allies. The State benefits from a strong Empire, just as the Empire benefits from a strong State. I don't see why you think it acceptable to speak poorly of your allies; I thought the Caldari were more respectful than that.

The last person to deride me this way was Admiral Yanala, and last I checked, she was a waste of biomass on the surface of Caldari Prime. I suggest you re-examine what you're really fighting for, because the State and Heth's puppets are leading our civilization to a dark, dark place.

If you truly want to honor the memory of the people lost yesterday, stop attacking the Gallente.

The only way this issue will be settled for all time is for the Luminaire system in its entirety to be under a single flag, and the only way to do this with military force is to have one empire completely defeat the other. The chances of this happening are about as good as Heth deciding to go pick fruit for the rest of his life. So, each action, each fight, each war will only generate more martyrs that will block the road to peace for generations.

things

So long as the State insists on being a threat to Federal security....

(Good Points)

Wow. You really have no clue.

Going to say the same thing I said elsewhere.

So long as the State insists on being a threat to Federal security there will be no permanent peace for Caldari Prime. A faction doesn't allow a hostile force an enclave within its own borders.

Fate has seen fit to lock the Gallente and Caldari people together by virtue of proximity. To try and deny their connection to each other is madness. Peace will be achieved once the rightful order has been restored - once the Caldari and Gallente people begin working together again. Some people say that reintegration of the State into the Federation is the answer - I don't think that will work. Both empires will have to come to peaceful terms with each other and learn to share. Share space, share famine and plenty, and share the common destiny the children of Luminaire have in store.

And that's why we need to launch full scale attack on all major Gallente homeworld. Just like they did on ours. We will plant Provist flags on Villore, Gallente Prime and any other remaining administrative centers, who supported this murderous government. Also all gallentean government workers should be put under trial and executed.
And then there will be peace.
And no one ever touch our planet again.

As it stands you lot can't even mount a credible attempt at taking Nennamaila, much less assault the Federation Core Worlds. Not that reality is of much importance in the galaxy you're living in.

Do carry on with your crazy, though.

You would all be wise not to confuse the mercenary capsuleer side show that is the empyrean war with an actual conflict between empires.

Although I've a feeling the differences will become increasingly apparent soon enough.

As it stands you lot can't even mount a credible attempt at taking Nennamaila, much less assault the Federation Core Worlds. Not that reality is of much importance in the galaxy you're living in.

If you are talking about lowsec warzone campaign, Nenna will fall as soon as we recieve orders to make it fall.

Nennamaila is going to need better people than you to capture it.

If you are talking about lowsec warzone campaign, Nenna will fall as soon as we recieve orders to make it fall. So far I don't know any strategically important targets in Nenn. That's why we have other targets, which I cannot call for obvious reasons.

I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.

Your militia is being carried on the backs of Pyre-Falcon and pretty much no-one else. When Ev0ke finally crumble to their end (which isn't all that far off) and Pyre-Falcon inevitably get bored of shoring up your militia's staggering inadequacies (and they will, trust me - they talk a good game about duty to the State, but like I-RED's militia wing and the other Duty before them, they will eventually get bored of having to put up with people like you) you will have no-one to support you

You would all be wise not to confuse the mercenary capsuleer side show that is the empyrean war with an actual conflict between empires.

Although I've a feeling the differences will become increasingly apparent soon enough.

Do you really think I tremble in fear and despair that the FDU by any honest estimation contains some of the best independent mercenary organizations able to conduct a wide range of small unit actions with absolute proficiency?

I am not a woman of empty rhetoric and false affectations of patriotic duty. I know my task and I shall fulfill it for my love of my people, my nation and my State means that never can I abandon them and willingly shall I sacrifice with blood, bear whatever burdens of guilt duty demands and where I am judged upon the merits of my deeds and not words alone.

I count myself very fortunate in the quality of my enemies. I am proud to be cutting my teeth on my honoured foes.

Please don't mistake me. The prediction that you'll get bored of the militia wasn't an insult. It's just an inevitability.

[quote=Andreus Ixiris]
I close my eyes and I find succour from my burdens in those sublime moments of clarity between the flashes of frenzied synesthia as the veins flood with combat stimulants and raw adrenaline; the incandescent flashes of super-heated anti-matter plasma impacting upon hull plating; the ripping apart of internal structures via gravimetric shear effects; the feel of the rapidly expanding corona of a reactor breach upon ones own shields...

There's beauty to be found in those moments. There's an embrace of life, joy and passion the closer one comes to understanding the frailty of existence and our own mortality. The only inevitability here is that violence has shown me what it is to be a capsuleer combatant and I no longer have fear due to the acceptance of my reality where the inexorable advances of time will not weaken me, but rather every day will strengthen my resolve.

I do not seek fame nor glory. I do not require power over others for I have abandoned ambition. I do not have politics for I find them unnecessary. I do not have an ideology or a cause because service to my nation alone is enough.

I am but the weapon and the tool to inflict violence and destruction where it is required according to the principles and ideals I choose. I have chosen the Caldari State, so then shall I seek to sharpen my skills with the blood of its enemies.

One can always wish for peace, hope for it, and fight for it, but I cannot deny that there is a part of me now that will mourn the day I will have to abandon these fields of death and suffering like a disquiet that passes over the heart.

I might admire it for what it is, but talk of worship and dark gods is a bit to melodramatic for me. Even with my typically Gallentean love for the theater.

What happens then when they decide they would like another Caldari planet, let that go as well?

I have some words of advice for my fellow Caldari, and for the State itself after yesterday's events - let Caldari Prime go.

Focusing so much on the homeworld has left you all blind to what that obsession has done to the Caldari people at large. The military and economy of the State is weakening, and what's worse nationalism and xenophobia seem to run rampant within society. Instead of the heads of the Megas competing with each other, driving innovation, progress, and diversity, you've allowed the bulk of Caldari population within the cluster to be placed under the boot of an incompetent dictator.

Let it go. It's simply not worth the effort and sacrifices that are being made on its behalf.

Caldari Prime will forever be the ancestral home of the Caldari people. We have made mistakes and we have learned from them, this will be no different.

Perhaps Ishukone sets an important precedent with diplomacy in how we could achieve our end goal. We must ask ourselves, if our end goal is to reclaim our home world, why would be averse to doing so through diplomacy? We have a measure of pride that would prevent us from kneeling and begging and I would never condone such activity. But honest diplomacy? There is a way to obtain what is important, our home back.

If our end goal is the punishment of the Gallente and to deal to them a black eye as they have done to us, then can we not be honest enough to state that as our end goal rather than claiming our end goal is reclaiming home?

To the original post, many of us would give and do nearly anything to see Caldari Prime once again be home to the Caldari and a Caldari populace. Simply "giving it up" is not an option.

Except that many of us would still not have access to Home - let alone the right to live and raise our families upon it.

That's not much of a solution, is it?

Since when have the Caldari not had access to Caldari Prime? Immigration and expatriate policy is beyond lenient in the Federation.

Since when have the Caldari not had access to Caldari Prime? Immigration and expatriate policy is beyond lenient in the Federation.

This again. The ability to settle Caldari Prime so long as we cease to be Caldari is no ability at all. It's certainly not a concession of anything at all.

It's better than a goddamn war. I'm sorry, Pieter, but sometimes people on both sides of this argument forget that never was there such a thing as a good war nor such a thing as a bad peace, and that rarely enough can there be a perfect solution to any problem. No, I don't think Caldari Prime not being under genuine State governance is a perfect state of affairs but it's better than... this. It's better than a meaningless war killing tens of thousands every day. It's better than a nine-kilometre chunk of burning metal crashing into a planet. It's better than two national governments whose stability the people rely upon s****ing themselves inside out.

What we had before wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it was better than what we've had for the past five years. It's made monsters out of all of us, and for what? Intaki Prime is more important to me than most people could possibly imagine but it'd never be worth all the horrors I've seen in the past half-decade.

What we had before wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it was better than what we've had for the past five years. It's made monsters out of all of us, and for what? Intaki Prime is more important to me than most people could possibly imagine but it'd never be worth all the horrors I've seen in the past half-decade.

In all seriousness, though... is it the planet that matters, or the people on it? The flag or the hand that holds it? Because it is not inconceivable to evacuate the entire Caldari population from Caldari Prime and move them back into Caldari space.

For clarification, sir,

The Caldari lived as exiles for centuries while the Gallente repopulated their conquered homelands.

The Gallente lived much as they always have for five years while the Caldari retook their homelands.

It is your statement that the former is a better situation than the latter?

My statement is that it's better than a ******* war.

*sigh*

What we really need here is to somehow find a way to relocate a planet. Maybe put a big wormhole in it's orbit path or something.

[...]
Now is the time to ACT!

Now is the time for WAR!

That would require a tremendous amount of resources. It is much easier to find to relocate something, well, more relocatable, like, say, gallente citizens.

Now is the time to ACT!

Now is the time for WAR!

The Caldari are neither our equals nor rational. It is time for the Gallente to wake and realize that there can only be war.

The destruction of the Caldari Leviathan Shiigeru proves that we have the means and when sufficientely provoked we can muster the will. Make no mistake that involved only a fraction of the Federation's available forces as there is considerably more on standby.......As the Caldari fleet lies in ruins now is the time to act. Delay only benefits our enemies to give them time to regroup and strike us again.

I bid you adieu.

Sorjat,
Gallentian Capsuleer.

Scherazad Ixiris wrote:

"I agree, sir. Enough blood has been shed."

++++

I disagree Mme. There is considerably more blood to be shed in the coming days.



After reviewing all holoreels, commentary, local channels and a variety of other media I have concluded that the Gallente have exhausted all available venues to talk this matter through with our former bretheren.

It is impossible to reason with the insane, zealots or animals.

As a Gallentean I too am first inclined to negotiate before acting but to borrow an ancient phrase, (origin unknown), ... "there is only peace among equals".

The Caldari are neither our equals nor rational. It is time for the Gallente to wake and realize that there can only be war.

The destruction of the Caldari Leviathan Shiigeru proves that we have the means and when sufficientely provoked we can muster the will. Make no mistake that involved only a fraction of the Federation's available forces as there is considerably more on standby.

The Caldari has vowed revenge on us and our bitter history informs us that they will strike, it is only a matter of 'when'. Indeed we are now at War pushed to this state by the beligerence of our enemies.

As the Caldari fleet lies in ruins now is the time to act. Delay only benefits our enemies to give them time to regroup and strike us again.

I formally petition the Federal Senate to vote on a formal declaration of war against the Caldari and begin a full scale invasion of Caldari space. At a minimum we need to occupy the closest Caldari systems as a buffer to prevent another attack on Luminaire. Attack them before they invade us again.

Now is the time to ACT!

Now is the time for WAR!

Now is the time to ACT!

Now is the time for WAR!

Right... so back to the wormhole plan, then...

Malcolm Khross wrote:

"If you believe destroying one titan has crippled the State's defenses, you're extremely naive."

++++

Monsieur Khross, I thank you for you input sir, however, I can assure you that I am not naive. Not at all. Indeed I consider my people and the Gallentian Senate truly naive, however, I digress.

As I know some of my fellow citizens who have voiced their peaceful intentions here are absolutely sincere in their beliefs and I firmly believe it will be their undoing. The result is only more Gallentean sufferring, more of our systems invaded, more titans crashed on our worlds... billions sufferring... c'est d+¬gueulasse!

As for Caldari resources and resourcefullness I assure you I am fully aware of what you are capable of sir... hence why, even though it pains me so much to say it... there is no alternative. My people do not believe in absolutes so I have trouble convincing them of this. I think though, just perhaps, with the great affront and injury you have done us this time that I may be able to convince them.

One other comment Monsieur, it is not your defenses that trouble me, not at all. Au contraire mon ami, it is your multiple offenses that bother me a great deal!

I bid you adieu.

Sorjat,
Gallentian Capsuleer.

So. Send us your young men and women and your fleets. We will send back scrap metal, blinded cripples and above all, boxes draped with that eagle flag that you love so much. As much misery as you seek to export to us, that much more will we send back to you.

You called?

Kidding aside, I too have thought of the advantages of moving the entire planet. If we could only understand how the natural wormholes form in the predictable manners they do, we might be able to make a wormhole of our own. Of course, Sansha's Nation already possesses wormhole generation technology, though the mass limitations are still a problem for such a task.

Peace, while harder to create and maintain than hate, is the best solution for both our peoples - but only whilst both sides are truly interested in negotiation.

No besieger, no invader can hold Caldari Prime by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for Home. Against that power tyrants and fleets cannot stand. The Gallente learned that lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Although it take a thousand years, we will come Home.

So. Send us your young men and women and your fleets. We will send back scrap metal, blinded cripples and above all, boxes draped with that eagle flag that you love so much. As much misery as you seek to export to us, that much more will we send back to you.

The State has always prided itself on being a good trading partner.

I hate what I have become, as I have become what I hate. I don't enjoy this any more than you do but there are no other options.

Do not mistake the words of one fool for the will of the Gallente populace and the Federation at large. I know you to be a reasonable man, there are other avenues available in the future for both our peoples. Let the more reasonable minds work towards them.

Executor Tibus Heth was born on Caldari Prime, debunking the myth that a Caldari living on their homeworld has to live as a Gallentean.

There are no reasonable minds in the Roden Administration or the secret police of Blaque's Eagles. Whatever saccharine words are offered by Federal apologists and hypocrites who on the one hand speak of peace yet condone the policies of their government to continue armed conflict against the State are like dust in the wind for the Caldari soldiers tasked with defending our nation. We do not set the political agendas - to think otherwise is the height of pretension - we just spill the blood as required by the dictates of our duty.

The time for discussion, debate or negotiation is long past for the die have now been cast. Let them fall as the Fates decree.

Mr Khross, you are one of the Caldari who I respect the most in this conflict.
While a stauch defender of your people you have the wisdom to see through the mass of barbarity and insult thrown about by both your peers and the gallente.

I saw a quote recently that encapsulates this entire conflict.

Caldari Prime is the homeworld of the Caldari people.
New Caldari is the homeworld of the Caldari state.

It would seem that these two things, especially in recent years, are no longer one and the same.

the inverse is also true, Gallente prime is not the seat of power for the Federation, that lies in the nearby system of Villore.

If it was not for this war, the people of Caldari would be able to visit or even stay upon the planet in question. Even given that it resides within Federation space. The problem, especially in the last 5 years is simply one of sovereignty. Not exactly even of the planet but of the space surrounding the planet.

It has been shown that even under Federate control, the people of Caldari Prime lived in a remarkably Caldari way. The local customs of the Caldari people were created over generations as survival traits for a harsh and unforgiving world. These traits are picked up by settlers from many backgrounds, or the settlers do not survive. This is the beauty of your world. It hones people into survivors.

So. In the end, this conflict can be boiled down to pride. Neither side wishes to have the other in control of the space surrounding Caldari Prime. Nor are they willing to have it set to a neutral party.

The reality of the situation though is this, The system is within Federation space, Any attempt to force Caldari sovereignty over the space surrounding Caldari prime is likely to result in more debris falling upon your home.

It is time to try something else. Free access to the planet could be arranged, a separate government could be negotiated, much like the intaki assembly, yes, they would be answerable to the Federation senate, but they could be Caldari people, living upon their homeworld and working towards the interests of the planet Caldari Prime.

The State and Federation will likely never see eye to eye on this or many other matters, but that does not mean that the people of Caldari Prime should have no voice. At the moment, they are being used as nothing more than a bargaining chip, and that MUST stop.

Perhaps this outsider's perspective on the matter is skewed. Perhaps there can be no hope.
But i do firmly believe that given the right to self government, even if as a part of the federation and not the state, the people of Caldari Prime would be better served than they have been these past few years.

I lost two crews in Luminaire satiating my rage against the State, much to the horror of my current employer. ~smirks~

But you two are wise and I suspect honorable men. I hope people listen to you.

Surly now with a little reason and restraint a way to peace can be found.

Executor Tibus Heth was born on Caldari Prime, debunking the myth that a Caldari living on their homeworld has to live as a Gallentean.

Peace has always been well within the grasp of the Federation, I hope they decide to reach for it.

But it does beg the question of what kind of life the Gallente majority offer (inflict?) upon the Caldari minority to create men like Mr.Heth in the first place. Surely a childhood lived without discrimination or prejudice would not produce adults so filled with nationalistic xenophobia? Hatred is not innate - it is taught, whether we realize it or not. So who taught Mr.Heth to be so filled with hate? His kinsmen... or his neighbors? I am not saying that this is exactly the case, but it would be equally foolish to discount it's possibility.

Sad to say, I remember the death of one of your crews from tht day with more fondness than is entirely healthy. But then, I see that smirk and I console myself that this is entirely natural.

Peace has always been well within the grasp of the Federation, I hope they decide to reach for it.

The smirk my pretentious friend was for the reaction of my employer not the loss of my crew. So please don't dishonor them with false empty.

One hopes that one day you and your ilk will hold yourselves to the same standard you hold everyone else.

Perhaps then peace will come.

On a slightly different note, Given that you claim that hatred is taught, and it is the fault of those who are hated. Do you still wonder why the Matari people Hate the Amarrians and people of the mandate?

Then you assert that you are a blind soldier and nothing more. Pitiful.

Then do as your duty demands of you, I would expect no less. Do not be offended when we do likewise (and have).

Be very grateful that I don't hold you to the standard I hold myself.

Oh I am grateful indeed Msr Tuulinen, but for reasons you would not suspect

~Chuckles~ But threats, how very Caldari of you. I will endeavor to raise your opinion of me.

Umm... because it's what they teach their kids from the day they're born? She didn't say it's taught by those who are hated, only that it can be. When you hate someone because of what they did to you, that's their fault. When you hate someone for what their great-great-great grandpappy did to your great-great-great grandpappy, that's your parent's fault... or your government's.

The only assertion I would make is that this war finds its roots not upon the soils of Caldari Prime but in the corruption of ideals by those whom abuse their power and authority for their own sake - both in the State and in the Federation.

At the moment I think I would be happy just to hear that some sort of formal negotiation was underway.

I think you rather ignored my point. We're amused that he lives up more to the Caldari ideal than the Gallentean one.

I think you rather ignored my point. We're amused that he lives up more to the Caldari ideal than the Gallentean one.

I think you rather ignored my point. We're amused that he lives up more to the Caldari ideal than the Gallentean one.

His business practices and colorful history certainly have earned him the "robber baron" reputation he has in the Federation, but I am not aware of anything in that history other than his Gallente heritage that would be seen as out of place in the boardrooms of the State. I suppose it would be one thing if Roden Shipyards was known to be a corporate pariah, alienated from the rest of the Gallente business community by its practices. Instead, however, Roden has demonstrated close relationships throughout that community as evidenced by their unity with Roden during the previous administration's executive overreach. This is not the behavior of a company that "refuses to share" or neglects the collective Gallente society.

As for guidance on the Caldari Way, I can only assure you that my father did his best while he was still alive to impart some measure of his heritage to a typically wild and independent daughter who in the end was too much her Gallente mother's child.

So, when I read on the IGS that the Caldari aren't able to make peace because Jacus Roden's company is a profitable armaments manufacturer...