Currently, asteroid belt pirates are just too easy to kill in high-sec. All it takes to kill them and survive all attack waves are 3-4 light scout drones, especially when flying mining barges with shield tanking modules on. This is mainly why players are able to mine while away from keyboard or to bot.

Mission encounters in the same system offer a much higher challenge however, and a single ship with only light scout drones would not be enough to survive in a mission, even lower level ones.

So, why not simply make the pirates that spawn in asteroid belts the same difficulty level as the ones in missions? Make the waves bigger and more frequent depending on how many ships are in the asteroid belts and the system, but balance the loot and salvage dropped so that it doesn't become too much of an easy way for active combat pilots to grind them.

This would force industrial pilots (haulers and miners) to have at least some form of active escort, or risk being destroyed by NPC pirates. I know some combat players would just roam around from belt to belt and kill all the pirates they see, but there are still chances that a miner would get attacked, especially in quiet systems. This means they wouldn't be able to "safely" mine while being away from keyboard or using bots.

I'm sure there would be some loopholes to consider and other negative drawbacks to this, but I'm also sure there would be a clever way to patch those holes to make it work.

I know this subject is a touchy one, but please try to avoid flaming if you don't agree. I would appreciate constructive comments.

Thanks

A single miner in highsec also makes a LOT less than a single L4 mission runner.

Well if you have to kill stuff that's as difficult as missions and you can make more money in missions why would you mine when you can just run missions...?

Because mining is a basic requirement for industry and you can't get minerals by running only missions. There will always be a need for mining as long as the base material for production will be minerals.

you didn't actually answer the question, you know that right?

Rats become too difficult for a single flight of drones to deal with in highsec (0.5+). Most miners mine in highsec systems (unless they are in a null corp). So this would affect more than 50% of miners (a very generously low approximation).

So miners are now unable to mine without having other miners also providing active protection (your drones won't help someone else without being commanded) or an active escort (who's producing no isk just idling around when he's not blowing stuff up). In the event of an escort, chances are the miners are paying for protection.

Less minerals are being introduced to the game because solo miners can no longer play the solo mining game (since they cannot kill the rats with their drones). Of those that do continue to mine some will lose their profits due to needing to pay their overwatch.

Because of this chain price of minerals would rise. That would lead to an increase in the production cost of most everything, meaning a pretty large-scale degree of inflation in the market.

Second-, third-, and fourth-order effects man. Think it through from start to finish, not just how to make life harder for people that make production easier.

The point of this suggestion is to make mining impossible to do solo

read that quote.
again, and again.
until you realise how dumb this idea is.

You know, mining in highsec is supposed to be relatively safe? So that new players can do something in the meantime?... So, dumb idea. Sorry, but it's true.

Another good point, new players would be kind of turned off if they can't do something as simple as mining.

You're not quoting the whole sentence!

The point of this suggestion is to make mining impossible to do solo,unattended with only drones as a guard.

...and even then, I don't think it's dumb at all. Yes, the implications are huge if you can't just mine solo anymore, but nothing prevents you from using one of your alts and dual-box to guard your miner. Technically, a single player can still do it without the need for a paid escort or a full blown mining operation. The point is to prevent afk mining and botting. Not to prevent solo mining altogether.

How else would you suggest we get rid of AFK and botters without affecting the PvP security of high-sec?

It seems like your're thinking about yourself more than the whole of EVE. I started off happily mining. You don't care if it affects prices? You're not the only one who plays the game. It seems like you don't like mining because it's boring and you don't like to sit and watch your cargo hold fill. Most people don't, they do other stuff at the same time. What you're suggesting would make it so you DO have to sit and watch your cargo hold fill. It would, as you put it, give it "a sort of challenge", but not in a good way that makes it fun.

OP:

Your against bots and I fully support that principle. 110%.

But your idea is flawed on many levels. Making mining impossible to do solo is against the sandbox and would ruin Tue game for many players. I enjoy mining as a change of pace now and again. Plus I also get a sense of satisfaction from knowing I get my own minerals for my own production. I don't necessarily want to do that in a group.

Also, if you think all bot mining is highsec only, your a fool. Admittedly the majority of bots in null are mission bots but then they make so much more isk than miners it makes you wonder why anyone would bot mine.

Anyway, here's your main flaw. Bot miners don't solo much. They fly a fleet in. All it takes is to have a single other ship, who has all the drones attached to it with bot commands to attack pve rats. Suddenly the Orca becomes lethal with maybe 50 medium drones...

the last part of the sentence doesn't make any difference. you're still basically saying you want to make solo mining impossible.
do you not comprehend how much of a terrible idea that is?

why do you need to get rid of afk miners? also, ban botters.
why are you trying to "fix" (and you're not even doing that) something that simply doesn't need fixing.

Not IMPOSSIBLE, just harder to do while AFK! Can't you just get that point in your heads people? I don't mean to make it impossible to mine solo. I mean to make it harder to do while AFK for hours at a time like some people do (i.e ice mining).

Who else isn't surprised at miners being opposed to a change that makes their passive, inattentive gameplay marginally more difficult?

"guys it's a sandbox doesn't that mean I can do whatever I want and succeed at it?"

nope, not at all

Who else isn't surprised at miners being opposed to a change that makes their passive, inattentive gameplay marginally more difficult?

"guys it's a sandbox doesn't that mean I can do whatever I want and succeed at it?"

nope, not at all

Making it harder to mine solo by increasing the PvE risk only hurts active solo miners. Bot miners use multiple accounts and so can defend themselves.

As for making it harder, but not impossible, again your a fool. If you can't kill a rat with 100dps (5 x Hammerhead II's) then you can damn well be sure that rat is going to kill a mining barge with barely more tank than a T1 frigate. So, if you can't solo the rat, you can't solo mine. Your not making it harder, your making it impossible.

As for the comment about "bots can't be banned", the figures published by Team Security beg to differ.
Oh, and how intelligent does an AI need to be to get the concept of, "Something is in the overview, Target it + F1"? About as intelligent as a mining bot then...

Why would anyone want to pay attention mining ice? Currently you get maybe 5m an hour mining ice. Your more at risk from gankers. It also takes the best part of an hour to fill the cargo bay of a Mack. This is not encouraging for activity.

At least mining ore requires a modicum of attention be paid. Rocks deplete so you need to move and swap targets.

Who else isn't surprised at miners being opposed to a change that makes their passive, inattentive gameplay marginally more difficult?

"guys it's a sandbox doesn't that mean I can do whatever I want and succeed at it?"

nope, not at all