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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 18:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 29/08/2005 18:07:09
Has anybody done any serious DOT calculations on dreadnaughts in a fitting that would be suitable for taking on a POS?
For a not so great POS defense, would 9 battleships and 1 dread be better than say 15 battleships?
Relevant calculations would have to be based on both ships having some sort of tank on. I could do the calculations but I'm lazy and I'm at work, and I was just wondering if anybody else had done any math on this.
Also, I remember hearing about some sort of siege mode, but I haven't read anything specific on that...could anybody clarify if that exists and what it does?
Shamis
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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.29 18:22:00 -
[2]
I'm very interested in hearing about this myself.
I sort of have an idea based on some numbers i saw a while ago. Something like 400ish DPS coming out of a Revelation with no damage mods.
That would mean 2000DPS with a siege module active or roughly 60-70% more damage then a gankgeddon. The only real reason to use a dread instead of 2 more bs would be for tanking the POS.
It doesn't seem like a whole lot so i'm hoping my numbers are way off
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.08.29 18:46:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Meridius
I'm very interested in hearing about this myself.
I sort of have an idea based on some numbers i saw a while ago. Something like 400ish DPS coming out of a Revelation with no damage mods.
That would mean 2000DPS with a siege module active or roughly 60-70% more damage then a gankgeddon. The only real reason to use a dread instead of 2 more bs would be for tanking the POS.
It doesn't seem like a whole lot so i'm hoping my numbers are way off
Yeah it doesnt really make sense to me tbh, as the whole point of dreads is to be able to tank + kill a DEFENDED POS (hence siege mode). However, if they do such crappy dps, you would either need A) Multiple dreads, which is going to be hard for most corps and organizations to field when needed, or B) Lots of BS for support, meaning that the POS would be switching targets and shooting BS as well, basically making the dreads damage soaking abilities pointless. It would only make sense of POS like automattically shot at dreads instead of BS, but that would make no sense RP wise.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 19:09:00 -
[4]
So it sounds like 1 dreadnaught and x Bs's really isn't any better than x + 4-5 bs's?
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Bigben
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Posted - 2005.08.29 19:42:00 -
[5]
just have 15 gank a geddons with exactly the same setup on and crystal
7 megapulse 2s
med 3 target painters
low 8 heatsink2s
or you can have 14 tempests with 6 14002s with emp
5 target painters
and 6 gyrob2s its possible with engineering lvl5 and advanced weapon upgradeds lvl 5
with geddons you are going to be getting wrekking hits for over 1k with like 2 second rof or something stupid..
tempest just will be doing over 2.3k wrekking hits with near 7/8 second rof
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2005.08.29 19:45:00 -
[6]
that we are not real sure on...last i heard, siege mode gave a flat 5x damage increase on the weapons of a dread.
At a rough guess of 80 DPS per Ion siege that means in seige mode it would get closer to 400 DPS per gun in siege mode (times 3 guns making about 1200DPS for an ion siege blaster dread in seige mode)
This does not take into account ship bonuses or the capitol hybrid skill, or any possible damage mods equided on the dread.
add to that an armor rep that in siege mod repairs 18000 armor every 15 seconds and that is a formitable anti-pos beast.
Other short range guns do similar but slightly less damage. The Long range guns do less DPS but higher burst damage which can come in handy as well.
I have not seen an actual seige module so I can not tell you the true stats just going off info posted by bughunters in local on sisi before the patch for the damage bonuses on the seige module.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bigben
just have 15 gank a geddons with exactly the same setup on and crystal
7 megapulse 2s
med 3 target painters
low 8 heatsink2s
or you can have 14 tempests with 6 14002s with emp
5 target painters
and 6 gyrob2s its possible with engineering lvl5 and advanced weapon upgradeds lvl 5
with geddons you are going to be getting wrekking hits for over 1k with like 2 second rof or something stupid..
tempest just will be doing over 2.3k wrekking hits with near 7/8 second rof
I said a poorly defended POS, not an offline one  ...you can't fit for max gank.
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FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.08.29 20:53:00 -
[8]
still though the tanking ability of the dread is mute without it being able to reliably taking out a POS with maybe a couple other dreads. but at 2500dps (being generous) it would take a while for 3 to take out a POS. and with BS support to beef up dps then those bs are just as vuleruble as before
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:05:00 -
[9]
It seems like dreads should have gang assist mods or something. That would make them more useful.
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Bane Lord
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:23:00 -
[10]
Real answer...
Tested prior to launch on sisi..
we had..
4xAmarr Dreads
3xCaldari Dreads
2xMinmatar Dreads
30-40 BS
it took just under 45 mins to take an undefended POS down to reinforced mode, but we only had like 2 dreads for the first 10-20 mins... and the fleet steadily grew to the listed numbers..
so i would venture a guess to about 20-30 Mins if the whole fleet would have jumped on it at once.
the amarr dreads were getting something like 20-22k wreaking hits with Giga pulses and MF's.
and the Caldari was getting 19-20k with EMP torps.
Afterwards we had a life fire test, when not in siege mode, it took about 10 BS about 2-3 mins to take down a Dread.
In siege mode. it took 30-40 BS 20-30 Mins to take one down.
These were full gank BS's, so each has about the DoT of Large POS guns... so i would venture that 2-3 Dreads would easily Take out a fortidied POS with anything less than a Full Fleet of BS's Defence, need i remind you that the dreads could achieve a targetting range of 200-300Km... and just bombard the POS out of range of the Defending Fleet, but still in range of POS guns.
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FalloutBoy
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Posted - 2005.08.29 21:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Bane Lord
Real answer...
Tested prior to launch on sisi..
we had..
4xAmarr Dreads
3xCaldari Dreads
2xMinmatar Dreads
30-40 BS
it took just under 45 mins to take an undefended POS down to reinforced mode, but we only had like 2 dreads for the first 10-20 mins... and the fleet steadily grew to the listed numbers..
so i would venture a guess to about 20-30 Mins if the whole fleet would have jumped on it at once.
the amarr dreads were getting something like 20-22k wreaking hits with Giga pulses and MF's.
and the Caldari was getting 19-20k with EMP torps.
Afterwards we had a life fire test, when not in siege mode, it took about 10 BS about 2-3 mins to take down a Dread.
In siege mode. it took 30-40 BS 20-30 Mins to take one down.
These were full gank BS's, so each has about the DoT of Large POS guns... so i would venture that 2-3 Dreads would easily Take out a fortidied POS with anything less than a Full Fleet of BS's Defence, need i remind you that the dreads could achieve a targetting range of 200-300Km... and just bombard the POS out of range of the Defending Fleet, but still in range of POS guns.
true but you got to remember those 30-40bs would be vulnerable to being attacked and taken out and any copetent POS op if present during the siege would know this and use the standings trick to kill a bs every 30 seconds. so in those 30min that it would take to take the POS all te bs would be dead. so it would prolly take another hour for the dreads to finish the POS in which time I'm sure the POS could deal with a few of them. so a 200M POS would take 10s billions of isk in ship losses to down
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2005.08.29 22:14:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 29/08/2005 22:15:08
I think its pretty clear that a fleet of dreads is better than a fleet of bs's at taking down a POS. But that isn't really relevant since there are few corps that can field more than 1-2 dreads at a time since few have the money, and even fewer have the skills.
So if you have to attack a POS in a mixed fleet, and the Dread doesn't signifigantly outdamage battleships, then there isn't really any point of having it there, since for the same price you could buy 10 fully T2 fitted battleships. Unless 1 dread outdamages 10 battleships it just doesn't seem worth it unless you are limited in manpower and just so happen to have a bunch of dread capable pilots with a few billion isk to blow.
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Velic
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Posted - 2005.08.30 03:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Velic on 30/08/2005 03:23:28
one man cant pilot 10 T2 equiped battleships. So its a usem if you got them kinda thing. A dread would certainly be helpfull assisting a fleet in the battle.
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Istvaan Shogaatsu
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Posted - 2005.08.30 03:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Velic
one man cant pilot 10 T2 equiped battleships. So its a usem if you got them kinda thing. A dread would certainly be helpfull assisting a fleet in the battle.
Have you met Kayosoni?
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Zerodragoon
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Posted - 2005.08.30 04:25:00 -
[15]
Hmm at DPS like that it means your going to need a mixed fleet, and then whats the point of the dread?
Frankly if they made it so a dread inreinforced mode shooting at a POS caused the guns to force attack it constantly (reguardless of the standing trick), it would make bringing them into the fight worthwhile.
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Tekka
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Posted - 2005.08.30 05:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Velic
one man cant pilot 10 T2 equiped battleships. So its a usem if you got them kinda thing. A dread would certainly be helpfull assisting a fleet in the battle.
Have you met Kayosoni?
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babyblue
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Posted - 2005.08.30 07:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Bigben
just have 15 gank a geddons with exactly the same setup on and crystal
7 megapulse 2s
med 3 target painters
low 8 heatsink2s
or you can have 14 tempests with 6 14002s with emp
5 target painters
and 6 gyrob2s its possible with engineering lvl5 and advanced weapon upgradeds lvl 5
with geddons you are going to be getting wrekking hits for over 1k with like 2 second rof or something stupid..
tempest just will be doing over 2.3k wrekking hits with near 7/8 second rof
With that setup you'd spend as much time re-charging your cap as you would actually firing. Gankageddon is useful only when it takes down the target before it's cap runs out.
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Archo X
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Posted - 2005.08.30 14:03:00 -
[18]
Dreads are pre-nerfed. The devs said they would have to do that to keep "balance" but in upcoming patches as more come into the game I bet the nerfs will come off and their power will be shown. These are supposed to be the biggest and baddest ships out there.
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