And Ishukone are spineless freaks! Instead of talking with federal dogs, they could break to planet with force.

Mister Annages, while linking to the article itself you left out a very important piece of information at the end of the unabridged release. That being the reports of Ishukone being in contact with the Federation Senate over access to assist with the relief efforts. That has to be the first small bit of good news to come out of all of this. If The Scope's sources are genuine and accurate this small detail just might, optimistically, serve as a starting point for further diplomatic relations between the State and the Federation.

Caldari Prime may be scarred and reeling from this chain of events, but it seems hope is still alive.

Blasted gallentes! They will pay for this atrocity!!

And Ishukone are spineless freaks! Instead of talking with federal dogs, they could break to planet with force.

Hmmm, interesting. Now why would a company on Heth's blaque list gain by doing that, wonders I? Other than getting themselves purged faster for "collaboration" of course.

Blasted gallentes! They will pay for this atrocity!!

And Ishukone are spineless freaks! Instead of talking with federal dogs, they could break to planet with force.

Blasted gallentes! They will pay for this atrocity!!

And Ishukone are spineless freaks! Instead of talking with federal dogs, they could break to planet with force.

Silence does not mean stillness.

No, they can't.

Negotiation will more likely get Ishukone access, allowing assistance to the people that need it.

Force will just result in Ishukone getting repelled, losing investments and ultimately accomplishing nothing.

I don't care what nationality you are, what beliefs you have. What matters is getting help to those in the path of destruction this tragedy has wrought. The fact innocents where harmed in this and we should make every effort to help them in this time of crisis. Those with power should use it for the good of all, not just the good of themselves. We are already incomprehensible demons to baseliners, let's correct this.

We are combat pilots in first place. And it is in our power to unite efforts and strike back, any Federation asset, that can be harmed by capsullers, should be harmed. Any Federation supporters, that can be killed by capsuleers, must be killed. We must make anything possible to prevent such situation ever again. We must save innocent people lives by destroying everything related to Federation.

They will pay for what they done.

You realise that no-one is going to help you, don't you?

Well, if Ishukone is too weak to deal with federate scum itself, it can always ask for help from the Navy, besides, it could be a nice opportunity to retaliate.

I am a combat pilot, kid. I am flying with many peoples who share my ideas and goals. So, please stop using this drugs and try to look at the real world at least once.

Not showing martial prowess is not the same as weakness.
Sometimes it takes more strength NOT to shoot.

Getting the Navy involved won't do any good aside from generating more debris to fall on our homeworld.

It is because of petty warmongering that Caldari prime needs relief efforts in the first place, so kindly shove off.

You appear to be less interested in the ideals and cause of your faction and more interested in just having something to shoot at.

People like you are why the empires will take ages to find peace, if they ever do. You seem more fit to be a pirate than a soldier fighting for a cause.

Sometimes it take more strength to not shoot, sometimes to shoot...

Whom do you consider our Navy to be? It is gallentean tactic to wage wars by killing civilians. Tell me, how many "debris" there were in space, when Tibus Heth first time kicked gallentean occupants from our planet? I don't think such operation will require any fight on orbit of Caldari Prime, neither low, nor high. During this operation the tripwire system should be temporary disabled or completely destroyed in affected systems, and, if I was planning such operation, I would launch fake or just parallel attack on arbitrary military gallentean installation to distract them from ships operating with civilians.

Gallente hit us when we didn't expect it, obliterating many civilian lives with their greedness to have one more planet. And you prefer to let them go without retaliation?

Where is your dignity, sir?
This is repulsive.

I am a combat pilot, kid. I am flying with many peoples who share my ideas and goals. So, please stop using this drugs and try to look at the real world at least once.

Behind Damar Rocarion, you're basically the laughing stock of the Caldari militia. The only people who fly with you are those who don't know better.

Just shut up, kid. Your combat experience is not enough not only to talk about me,

Your ignorance is really annoying.

There are Caldari citizens suffering on the surface, and Ishukone is trying to deliver aid. THe only thing you want the Navy to deliver is guns. You don't even seem to care about the people on the surface of Caldari Prime. Citizens of the State, YOUR people.

As I have said, the lives under threat on Caldari Prime is our first priority.
I Do fully believe the area in orbit of Caldari Prime needs to be reconnoitered as a defensive operation, but your interest only seems to lie in offensive actions elsewhere. Actions which will only make the current situation worse.

I have no love for the Gallente Federation, but we should be demonstrating that we are their betters by showing the restraint they have not.

I beg your pardon? When you were still learning what it means to be a Caldari Citizen I was in the Watch, and later the Navy. I have enough dignity to know when fighting is not the right answer, and I want to see the best outcome for the entire State and all of our people, not just Heth and Provists like yourself.

It's funny you are so dismissive of ideals, since the State has our own ideals due to the fact that ideals are a large portion of the make up of a nation and its identity. Perhaps you never did learn what it means to be a Caldari Citizen.

Come and make me, you petulant child.


Firstly, you don't get to decide that. Secondly, sitting on a station in a battleship one-shotting industrials and frigates and flying in fifty-man blobs doesn't make you a combat expert.


Congratulations! Now you know how literally everyone on the IGS feels about you. You know literally nothing and you should shut up.

sitting on a station in a battleship one-shotting industrials and frigates and flying in fifty-man blobs doesn't make you a combat expert

Sir, if you have lost it, i would remind you, that the proposition was about caring people in the planet, Sir. That is what this conversation about. I strongly recommend you to review it from the start, sir. And do not make such mistake twice, since I really hate incompetence.
And difference between what Ishukone did and what I was talking about is not in what should be done, but in what how it should be done.

Should you allow murderer, that you catch on a crime scene, go along with it, because you want to show the restrain, that he have not?
I find it absurd, sir.

Yes, I am still young, and I was still learning when you was in the Watch, but I have learned my lessons well. I know that if someone hits you, and you don't fight back, he will hit you again. I know, that if someone hits you and you don't fight back, you lose respect. And you disgrace not only yourself, but your squadron, your corporation, and your State. Cowards and fainthearted ones are stains on reputation.

just show that you have no idea of what I am doing, how i fight and what are you talking about. If you pull a couple of examples, that you somehow managed to find out, but ignore many others, you are indeed blind and ignorant.

I don't need to claim it. People just need to look at your kill record.

I have been paying attention. You suggested that Ishukone were acting improperly because they want to gain access to grant aid diplomatically rather than coming in guns blazing which would result in the death of more Caldari citizens as relief vessels (which aren't known for their armaments and ability to take punishment) get caught up in a fight.

Again, it seems as if you don't care about the people on the ground so much as saving face and getting revenge, neither of which will help those people.

You have that person arrested, so they can be tried for their crimes and brought to justice. If you skipped straight to killing them right back, then we might as well not have police, because we'd just be a barbaric anarchy.

The Federation needs to answer for their crimes, but, thus far, throwing the Navy at the problem has proven somewhat less than effective.

I am not a coward. I have come to the defense of the State on multiple occasions, and I was there at the battle of Shiigeru trying to defend Caldari interests. Trust me, we did what we could to fight back when we were hit, but we got our asses kicked. Right now is the time to heal our wounds.

Taking rash action might only serve to injure us further. We should not take this attack lying down, but there are other ways to demonstrate strength and solidarity. Also you have framed your intentions mostly in the the terms of vengeance which can be a slippery slope. A slope I feel the State has slid down too far under Heth's rule (I appreciate his reforms to bring us back to a better meritocracy, and was fully behind the actions to reclaim Caldari Prime and maintain defense of the State, but his handling of Gallente peoples out of blind hatred are appalling and have only served to provoke the Federation).

Good news folks.

The Gallente Sentate has show at least they have some honor and have unanimously granted Ishukone passage into Federation space to provide aid to the planet.

You are not a mega-corporation Kim-haani, you are a capsuleer. Your ability to breach Gallente space is not comparable to Ishukone who has a responsibility to their employees to do whats best for them. There is no dishonor in what they are doing nor their methods. Politics is but a more refined and often more dangerous form of warfare.

honorable

You don't know what this word means.

Sir (althought I am not shure I should adress you like that), you have no ground to tell me what i know and what I don't. Not you taught me and not you graduated me.

The action your corporation (and you as being part of it during these time) did do not allow you to make judgement about anyone else's honor. You have lost your own, when you was attacking our fleets, who were defending the State and when you was making an alliance with gallentean military forces.

The only honorable action was to leave the corporation that instant, what you hadn't done, disgracing yourself.

Mega-corporation has greater resources and number of ships, than I will ever see in my life. Their abilities are greatly overcoming mine. They can realise complex plans, strategies and maneuvers, that I will never have possibility to conduct myself.

The problem is, that among numerous ways of achieving the goal, they have choosen the least honorable one.

I can only reiterate that there is absolutely nothing dishonorable about being smart.

The fact of the matter is that we're not in control of this situation, the Federation is, and if we want our Home back then we're going to have to keep our options open.

I believe you misunderstand. Ishukone certainly has more resources and ships than you ever will, but they also have a responsibility to do whats best in the interest of their people. That does not include rash and foolish actions. I can only reiterate that there is absolutely nothing dishonorable about being smart.

I'm not even sure where to begin, Ms. Kim.

Suffice it to say that currently we do not exist in a state of total war. While there is an ongoing border war, and there have been several fleet engagements, this does not a total war make.

Without even touching the politics involved in the destruction of the Shiigaru, it is right and good that Caldari corporations attempt to help Caldari. How is this even a point of discussion?

This would be an opportune time to seek the assistance of your ally the Empire.

This would be an opportune time to seek the assistance of your ally the Empire.

SuVee and other Caldari corporations want to join the relief effort, but not sure if the Fed will let them in.

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Sukuuvesta Corporation one of Executor Heth's strongest supporters?

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't Sukuuvesta Corporation one of Executor Heth's strongest supporters?

They are Practicals for a reason, they will stab Heth in the back when the situation will fit them.

It is worth noting that any interference with these operations, by the CPD or by the Navy, if they are so misguided as to actually do so, will be a clear violation of corporate sovereignty and will therefore be a State crime, as there has been no order from the CEP to interfere with these operations, and considering those currently involved, it seems clear no such order will be forthcoming.

They are Practicals for a reason, they will stab Heth in the back when the situation will fit them.

Essentially as the Peace and Order forces were forming up, Templis Dragonaurs appeared and started calling everyone Traitors. Peace and Order refused to stand down at Dragonaur orders. Templis Dragonaurs refused to stand down in turn.

The shooting started soon thereafter, with the Templis Dragonaurs taking the worst of it. Unfortunately there were many capsuleers of dubious loyalty in system who pretended to feelings of partisanship that I'm sure were false in order to engage the Peace and Order ships. To be honest it was a bit of a mess.

Once the dust had settled the Suuvee Freighters emerged and were escorted as far as the Gallente border by the combined Caldari/Concord Loyalist fleets. All those who weren't militia flagged then completed the escort all the way to Caldari Prime and also covered the Freighters on the way home.

Interesting turn of events. Any public communication from the Dragonaurs?

In space, noone can hear you scream.

Due to communications recording devices, one might consider that in space, everyone can hear you scream. I have to admit that the Templis Dragonaurs - or at least the Caldari Providence Directorate - probably have more qualified public relations staff than the fine people sent to Yoshenen.

In space, noone can hear you scream.

The Practical Bloc is one of the more politically pragmatic sections of Caldari politics.

Essentially as the Peace and Order forces were forming up, Templis Dragonaurs appeared and started calling everyone Traitors. Peace and Order refused to stand down at Dragonaur orders. Templis Dragonaurs refused to stand down in turn.

The shooting started soon thereafter, with the Templis Dragonaurs taking the worst of it. Unfortunately there were many capsuleers of dubious loyalty in system who pretended to feelings of partisanship that I'm sure were false in order to engage the Peace and Order ships. To be honest it was a bit of a mess.

Once the dust had settled the Suuvee Freighters emerged and were escorted as far as the Gallente border by the combined Caldari/Concord Loyalist fleets. All those who weren't militia flagged then completed the escort all the way to Caldari Prime and also covered the Freighters on the way home.

There was another factor, that Caldari Navy didn't send us backup, relaying only on Templis Dragonaurs and loyal capsuleers.

There was a huge unaffiliated with the State fleet (hired either by SuVee or just by a random traitor), who were attacking Templis Dragonaurs. Without this huge fleet Templis Dragonaurs would complete the mission successfully. There was another factor, that Caldari Navy didn't send us backup, relaying only on Templis Dragonaurs and loyal capsuleers.

There was a huge unaffiliated with the State fleet (hired either by SuVee or just by a random traitor), who were attacking Templis Dragonaurs. Without this huge fleet Templis Dragonaurs would complete the mission successfully. There was another factor, that Caldari Navy didn't send us backup, relaying only on Templis Dragonaurs and loyal capsuleers.

Kim-haani, I covered the capsuleer fleet under the apellation "Caldari Loyalists". I don't doubt that there were also many there who were present only for the love of mayhem - and I include the Eve University fleet under that heading - but I think I covered that under 'capsuleers of dubious loyalties'.

For your information, the majority of the EVE University Pilots in attendance were under my command, and they were under explicit orders to not engage Peace and Order ships (other than with Remote Armour/Shield Transporters, which I'm sure the POU wouldn't have minded). Mind you, you're absolutely right that there were a number of other pilots out there just looking to cause mayhem where ever they could. There always seems to be a few people with very itchy trigger fingers that wander in at the most inopportune times.

Wait, people who attack radical terrorists are traitors now? I must have been asleep when that announcement was made...

Wait, people who attack radical terrorists are traitors now? I must have been asleep when that announcement was made...

Radical terrorists? Eh?
They were the only loyalists that came to stop SuVee from squandering resources, allocated for war effort. They were doing job for the State, for all of us. Well, since you are not one of us, these noble fighters, who gave their lives protecting interests of the State in unequal fight are just 'radical terrorists'. Should I have expected less from a gallentean, eh?

A true loyalist is one who stands for the State and the ideals it was founded upon, and who respects the chain of command as dictated in the charter of the State, not someone who goosesteps along to the orders of a fortunate loader operator.

How do you feel about Ishukone giving away just under half of your home world?

Better than I feel about a know-nothing Minmatar trying to tell me what I should be doing as a loyal Caldari citizen.

What does the fact that she's Matari have to do with anything? That was a bit of a racist comment. If you want to call Pilot Muse a know-nothing due to her ignorance of your culture, fair enough. The fact that she's Minmatar shouldn't enter into the conversation, however.

I'm beginning to think you Caldari are almost as xenophobic and bigoted as your Amarrian allies based on all the crap I've seen spewed over the IGS lately.

What does the fact that she's Matari have to do with anything? That was a bit of a racist comment. If you want to call Pilot Muse a know-nothing due to her ignorance of your culture, fair enough. The fact that she's Minmatar shouldn't enter into the conversation, however.

I'm beginning to think you Caldari are almost as xenophobic and bigoted as your Amarrian allies based on all the crap I've seen spewed over the IGS lately.

How do you feel about Ishukone giving away just under half of your home world?

What does the fact that she's Matari have to do with anything? That was a bit of a racist comment. If you want to call Pilot Muse a know-nothing due to her ignorance of your culture, fair enough. The fact that she's Minmatar shouldn't enter into the conversation, however.

I'm beginning to think you Caldari are almost as xenophobic and bigoted as your Amarrian allies based on all the crap I've seen spewed over the IGS lately.

I don't mind the attitude since it is to be expected from some.

What is curious is the defensiveness of the position. I didn't indicate anything that Svetlana Scarlet should be "doing as a loyal Caldari citizen" I merely asked a question as to how they were feeling about the current situation.

To repeat the question since it seems that they may have misunderstood:

How do you feel about Ishukone giving away just under half of your home world?

What you meant to ask, I suspect, is how do we feel about the Chief Executive Panel giving away just under half of Caldari Prime to which I will respond with:

The Chief Executive Panel is acting within the best interests of both people, Gallente and Caldari by working toward a workable compromise for both peoples. They are not "giving away" parts of Caldari Prime so much as recognizing the Federation's legal right to authority over areas of the planet as it falls within their national jurisdiction.

Unfortunately, despite Caldari forces holding the majority of the orbital defenses, I doubt we could have held the planet indefinitely. While in the short term this deal feels like a ceding of territory, in the longer term it preserves some hold of the planet infinitely better than arms could have. We'll see how this progresses, of course.

I suspect, though, that Quafe will now be a significant target for Caldari business deals -- specifically with a mind toward acquisition of properties or facilities.

Believing that sovereign entities are entitled to do as their please without outside interference is not "xenophobia," something the Federation and its puppets need to try to grasp. What right does someone who has grown up outside the State, who has never been part of our society, who clearly does not understand our culture, and who is clearly only trying to provoke some sort of response against the Gallente and their Republic allies for what reason I cannot fathom -- perhaps to simply throw the cluster into chaos again as the Republic has done before -- have to tell me what I should do as a Caldari?

The Federation and Republic talk a great deal about freedom, but for some reason it only seems to apply to what they can tell others to do, not actually allowing them to take care of their own affairs. Your own garden is rife with weeds, Captain Rella...perhaps you should tend to it before you and yours tell us what to do with our own.

I have no clue what the hell you mean. No one in the Republic is telling you people what to do or how to feel. In fact, the only reason we're even the least bit concerned about your people is the fact that you're helping your Amarrian allies in the war and helping them to take our systems.

Puppets? We Matari are no one's damned puppets. We do as we will for the good of our own. We will not be judged by you, your Amarrian masters or anyone else.

On the one hand you Caldari go around yelling about respecting your traditions and values but, in the same breath insult anyone who isn't Caldari.

Who owned Caldari Prime prior to this arrangement? The Caldari State did.

Who owns Caldari Prime after this arrangement? Both the "Caldari State" does and Gallente.

It seems that just under half of the planet was given away. You can try and play semantics but that's how it appears.

[quote=Fredfredbug4]
Real soldier fights because of duty and follows orders, not just shoots around.

Believing that sovereign entities are entitled to do as their please without outside interference is not "xenophobia," something the Federation and its puppets need to try to grasp. What right does someone who has grown up outside the State, who has never been part of our society, who clearly does not understand our culture, and who is clearly only trying to provoke some sort of response against the Gallente and their Republic allies for what reason I cannot fathom -- perhaps to simply throw the cluster into chaos again as the Republic has done before -- have to tell me what I should do as a Caldari?

A terrorist group wanted by the State until it just so happens Tibus Heth comes to power -- interfering with a sovereign corporation carrying supplies on a CEP-approved mission...and those are the "loyalists"?

A true loyalist is one who stands for the State and the ideals it was founded upon, and who respects the chain of command as dictated in the charter of the State, not someone who goosesteps along to the orders of a fortunate loader operator.

Listen to me, if you so please, young Kim-haani and listen well.

The way of the wind shall strenghten your resolve against any enemy.
It shall do so, so that you may better serve the interest of the State.
If you truly consider yourself a citizen and you truly consider yourself a soldier, you must also consider yourself a state asset.
You cannot hold a personal agenda in opposition to the CEP and consider yourself loyal.
Your loyalty will be shown when you like Alakoni Ishanoya Lays down personal ambition and agenda for the state.

This may sound like me scolding you, but that is not my intent.
Your demeanor is belittling yourself and your state.
Your personal opinions are yours to hold. I too desire CP under state control.
The CEP however have decided that this is the right path for the state at this time and as state assets it is not our place to question. It is not even Heths.

Submit to Heiian. Honor yourself and your state.

Thank you for your words, Weitong-haan, but I am afraid you got me wrong. I do not oppose to the CEP in any way. I am doing only what I am ordered to do and what I must to do. Should I be assigned to follow CEP commands I will do it without hesitation.

The districts are purely administrative; they shall not be segregated by ethnicity.

No need to, the people will do this entirely on their own. Just give them time to pack up their stuff.