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mentalkiller
Galbadian Rush
27
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yet they are 10000000000x
Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?
/mentalKiller |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1513
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because I'm better than you. I have the level V specializations to prove it. |
Alternate Poster
Blatant Tax Avoidance
Victrix Mortalis
51
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%?
When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13383
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%? Because it might be the margin that tips the scale in your favour.
If you don't think it will, don't train it GÇö that's kind of the point of having diminishing returns.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
mentalkiller
Galbadian Rush
27
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Because I'm better than you. I have the level V specializations to prove it.
Really?
http://eveboard.com/pilot/mentalkiller
212121
Give me a break
/mentalKiller |
mentalkiller
Galbadian Rush
27
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alternate Poster wrote:mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%? When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why.
Wait, most of the time I either get ganked or gank somebody.
Do you really find those scenarios?
/mentalKiller |
Cannibal Kane
The African Terrorist
1595
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
mentalkiller wrote:Alternate Poster wrote:mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%? When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why. Wait, most of the time I either get ganked or gank somebody. Do you really find those scenarios?
Yes... when you leave the safety of your blob and engage people on your own you get that a lot.
"I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. -áHe flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. -áHis hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. -áIt was truly majestic. -áAnd while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off.-áBecause I am like that." --áNEONOVUS |
CENTUREAN
Fat Carebear Mining Club
High Rollers
4
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
You can save a lot of time by training thermal dynamics to 5.....in regards to soloing. 99.9999999% of my pvp has been with 400+ people with me.
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Arronicus
vintas industries
Mistakes Were Made.
397
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Posted - 2013.03.26 06:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
The point of specialization within eve, is to initially be general, with quick training times yielding high rewards, then increasingly longer and more intense training times, or costs, giving smaller and smaller kickbacks. This allows older players to effectively be better, but not significantly so. However, this 8 or 10% on top of having the initial skill to 5 can often add up to a very significant advantage. I share the mindset of many others, that it is good the way it is. Doesn't need a change. If you don't think that the increased bonus justifies the long train, don't do the long train. Simple as that.
Also, THERMODYNAMICS, not thermal dynamics. 2 VERY different things. |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1298
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because with over 100M SP, what the hell am I supposed to train?
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. |
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Seetesh
Hand of the Sword
25
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Because with over 100M SP, what the hell am I supposed to train?
I have the same problem so I've simply trained all the specs to 5. It does help on solo engagements. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
7196
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
"Diminishing returns"
~*a proud belligerent undesirable*~
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.
Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
8297
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well then shouldn't you be telling us why you trained them rather than asking?
Orr did you just buy the character hoping for pwn?
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |
Graygor
1kB Realty
1kB Galactic
15883
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kirjava wrote:Because with over 100M SP, what the hell am I supposed to train?
Do like I'm doing atm. Train entire skill blocks to level V. Ships is going to take a long time. But corp / trade / PI / leadership and Navigation arent too bad. Oh and the sub systems.
Bumping this thread to fight the spam.
This forum shall not belong to trolls or the ISD! 
"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"Something I don't say very often: The welshman is right." - Marcus Gord |
Kirjava
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
1315
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Graygor wrote:Kirjava wrote:Because with over 100M SP, what the hell am I supposed to train? Do like I'm doing atm. Train entire skill blocks to level V. Ships is going to take a long time. But corp / trade / PI / leadership and Navigation arent too bad. Oh and the sub systems. Bumping this thread to fight the spam. This forum shall not belong to trolls or the ISD!
Aye, I did this too. Only getting around to Capital ships now though, haven't had a need for them. Finished all gunnery and missile skills to 5, just a few cruiser and frig skills then work my way through spaceship command. Still got nearly all of my learning skill refund left too 
Also, row row, fight the spamma!
Coma on ISD, we beleive in the people who beleive in you, band the wanker! 
Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Cardinal Kirjava - Redeclaring the Crusade in the name of the Goddess since 2012. |
Graygor
1kB Realty
1kB Galactic
15883
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Posted - 2013.03.26 07:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have only 852k SP in missiles.
Thats my "rainy day" tree. I've actually finished most of the trees listed. Advanced planetology V is done in 5 days then its onto the science tree.
I must train everything!
Probably never going to train the caps. No interest in capital warfare but I might at some point to just have the spaceship command wing maxed out.
"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." --áKenneth O'Hara
"Something I don't say very often: The welshman is right." - Marcus Gord |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
33
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Posted - 2013.03.26 10:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alternate Poster wrote:mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%? When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why.
*nods* Goes off to train all his spec skills to lvl 5. |
LittleTerror
Illuminated Foundation Trust
33
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Posted - 2013.03.26 10:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Oh and if it was any higher than 2%. Lets say 5%, then everyone would train it, and everyone would do the same damage, and the game would become a lot more predictable and eve would be a very dull eve indeed...
So its simple, it is only 2%, and the skill takes longer to train because it simulates a more diverse virtual world. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
551
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Well then shouldn't you be telling us why you trained them rather than asking? Orr did you just buy the character hoping for pwn?
Being offered for sale here....
CCP really needs to add 'Character Sold' in your employment history.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Alternate Poster
Blatant Tax Avoidance
Victrix Mortalis
56
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
mentalkiller wrote:Alternate Poster wrote:mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%? When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why. Wait, most of the time I either get ganked or gank somebody. Do you really find those scenarios?
I really have. Less than a month ago even. In that case I won with 5% hull left, had been spamming warp (for the pod) for a few seconds at the time.
Given that 5% hull is less than 2% of my EHP I think maybe the extra damage saved me. |
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Whitehound
1397
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
If fighting is your business then you need it, because almost everyone trains them to the level 3 and 4.
Having permanently 2% more damage from skills means one can cut the cost of losses not only by doing more damage and winning more often, but by reducing the actual cost of losses while staying competitive. 2% more damage from skills allows you to use the cheaper 3% damage implants over the expensive 5% implants. The difference between a single T2 damage mod and a faction damage mod (mag stabs, heat sinks, gyros) is also only a 3%.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
irishFour
Str8ngeBrew
64
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Posted - 2013.03.26 12:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:If fighting is your business then you need it, because almost everyone trains them to the level 3 and 4.
Having permanently 2% more damage from skills means one can cut the cost of losses not only by doing more damage and winning more often, but by reducing the actual cost of losses while staying competitive. 2% more damage from skills allows you to use the cheaper 3% damage implants over the expensive 5% implants. The difference between a single T2 damage mod and a faction damage mod (mag stabs, heat sinks, gyros) is also only a 3%.
I like your points. Especially how having the extra 2% is almost like having a faction mod on at all times.
To be honest, that guy with maxed minmatar guns is impressive. But with the time spent he could have spec'd 4 each and every other weapon system, making him far more versatile. I know there is something to be said about being really really good at one thing. However, better then most at all things gunnery is more valuable. Be good at every fleet composition.
I like to have my cake and eat it too |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1126
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Posted - 2013.03.26 12:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
mentalkiller wrote:Alternate Poster wrote:mentalkiller wrote:Yet they are 10000000000x Why spend weeks to get an extra little 2%? When you lose your ship vs someone with 2% hull left you'll understand why. Wait, most of the time I either get ganked or gank somebody. Do you really find those scenarios?
Yup. Or have escaped an attempted gank with less than 2% hull left.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Jori McKie
Friends Of Harassment
62
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Posted - 2013.03.26 12:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
I can't count how often i won with only minimal structure left and how often i saw in local, "damn that was close only 5% structure left" when i warped my pod away. I once had only 20 HP structure left on an Algos i fought a Harpy with. I was just lucky my drones hit him before his last gun cycle hit me. There are a lot more examples i can remember, these are fights you won't forget for a long time.
Although i still don't have any 2% specs on weapons, my thermodramatics are at 5. You can't imagine the adrenaline when your Guns/MWD/point/web are at 89% or even 95% damage and you know one more heated cycle and you were done. Or the !"-º$%&/())=, when you burned them out. I lost a nice Enyo in a 1vs4 because i heated my scram+web one cycle too much and the heat damage burned my AB... 5km away from a Coercer, if i had paid attention you wont' see that killmail instead you would see that one Enyo killed 2x Destroyer, 1x Jag and 1x Kestrel. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
796
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 12:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
3828
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Posted - 2013.03.26 13:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often.
Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained.
At that point it boils down to 2 things:
Personal skills (by far the most important).
Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cunulatively add up to a noticable advantage.)
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors.
If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
796
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often. Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained. At that point it boils down to 2 things: Personal skills (by far the most important). Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cunulatively add up to a noticable advantage.) IE: When you do 2% more damage AND fire 2% faster AND 2% more accurately AND 2% longer range AND 2% better resists, etc.
So how often does one run into competent pilots, apart from that strategy is rock paper scissors, if you have the better strategy/counter you'll win :)
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
1129
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 14:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:So how often does one run into competent pilots...
Not often.
But when one does, it's a memorable story. That 2% can change the ending.
Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.
Malcanis for CSM8 |
Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
341
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Posted - 2013.03.26 15:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
At some point you run out of things to train besides Lvl 5's on 5x skills.
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Got Item? |
Arronicus
vintas industries
Mistakes Were Made.
401
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 18:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Vilnius Zar wrote:The difference between a win or a loss in PVP is almost never about 2% tank or dps or whatever because pvp is about strategy, tactics and intel. Getting those spec skills to 5 only make a modicum of sense if you seriously have nothing better to train but that doesn't happen very often. Actually it happens all the time when competent pilots are involved. By that I mean correct and intelligent decisions have been made by both sides and advantage has not been gained. At that point it boils down to 2 things: Personal skills (by far the most important). Cumulative trained skills (that extra 2% IN A NUMBER OF AREA's that cunulatively add up to a noticable advantage.) IE: When you do 2% more damage AND fire 2% faster AND 2% more accurately AND 2% longer range AND 2% better resists, etc. So how often does one run into competent pilots, apart from that strategy is rock paper scissors, if you have the better strategy/counter you'll win :)
Quite often, actually, depending on where you live, and where you pvp. Assuming you aren't living in 0.0 as part of some major alliance and pvping with that alliance, of course. |
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