Has CCP ever considered allowing characters to trade in unwanted skills?

The first response was the only one worth reading, the rest of u, back under your bridges.

Actually Sera made a good point I hadn't considered that.

That's because most of the rest of us are sick and tired of seeing this idea posted like it's a gem dug from the detritus of Features and Ideas.

It's a terrible idea that would, for a start:

1. Kill the implant market.
2. Kill the character trading market.
3. Render attribute remaps a completely useless mechanic.
4. Destroy the value of player choice of what to train and when to remap.

It's a hideous idea and completely unnecessary for Eve. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Well I wasn't aware of the previous posts and conversations, which is why I asked people their opinions you muppet.
I spend most of my time is game and not on the forum because I get sick of reading posts from forum trolls.
If you hate the idea so much, then don't read the thread.
Now back under your bridge.

So...literally everyone who doesn't like your idea, no matter if they explain in simple terms why it would be a bad thing, is a troll?

Well I wasn't aware of the previous posts and conversations, which is why I asked people their opinions you muppet.
I spend most of my time is game and not on the forum because I get sick of reading posts from forum trolls.
If you hate the idea so much, then don't read the thread.
Now back under your bridge.

That's what the forum search function is for: To catch up with the topic, when you were away for... ever.
Oh, and to the "x1-to-more" reply: The x*more skills are x*more, because, yep, they require more SP to train to each next level. So, transferring SP from x1 to x2 skil would not double it, as some seems to be expecting.

Well I wasn't aware of the previous posts and conversations, which is why I asked people their opinions you muppet.

You fail to do even basic research on your idea, yet I'm the muppet.

People would pay for 40m SP characters on the bazaar and then recycle them. Goodbye 3-4 years training time.

Yep and sorry for not having forum lvl 5

Has been suggested many times before, the majority of players seem to be against it. You would need to get huge player support for ccp to listen i think.

you are also running into the problem of being able to remap and buy implants for an optimal sp training plan and then just switching skills when you have enough sp, would need to only make 80%ish(or some other x number) of the sp "tradeable" for other skills.

CCP reduced the level of forum required to 1, with the inclusion of a search box. (Top right)

But that would require common sense level 1 and a modicum of intelligence at level 1 also.

Oh yea, the OP. NO.

Didn't get the memo, I shall petition CCP to find out why.

Seriously tho, this post not only lacks intelligence it is pointless.

Rather than just a straight NO would you like to add why it would be a bad idea?

Or is the point of this thread beyond you?

I'm not saying it should happen as I suggested, I'm trying to find out peoples opinions on the subject.

There is no wrong answer here what I would like to see is reasons why, suggestions, better ideas.

Didn't get the memo, I shall petition CCP to find out why.

Seriously tho, this post not only lacks intelligence it is pointless.

Rather than just a straight NO would you like to add why it would be a bad idea?

Or is the point of this thread beyond you?

None of you speak for the community if you don't like it or cannot contribute to the post then save yourself the stress and talk crap on other peoples posts.

So now that the majority of people agree that SP swapping is bad, can we discuss the ability to negatively train your skills to clean up unwanted skills? I know this doesn't create the same amount of outrage.

/and unlearning level 0 skills would be pro too

So now that the majority of people agree that SP swapping is bad, can we discuss the ability to negatively train your skills to clean up unwanted skills? I know this doesn't create the same amount of outrage.

/and unlearning level 0 skills would be pro too

I'm all for helping out the special needs players, but I think that a lot of headaches would be created and coding required just to help our OCD players lose that pesky eye twitch... and frankly there are a lot of other "untidy" things in EvE that will set them off just a much.

I think, you just asking for a permaban for spamming.

Did I said something funny?

train 1x skill, move sp form that skill to higher training multiplier skill and repeat.

I've often wondered how skillbooks are made. I would support unlearning skills with the proviso that:

1. A character unlearns his or her skills at exactly the same rate it took to learn them in the first place, e.g. 15 days for a 3 x skill at level 5 etc (depending on attributes).

2. That a character cannot learn any other skills when 'unlearning' as effectively the training queue is being utilized by a skill the sp of which is counting backwards on.

3. At the end of the process when the skill is unlearned to level zero the character can download it into a blank skill book that he or she can then sell or pass to another capsuleer who then consumes it in the normal way, taking time to learn the skill as normal.

4. Skill books should still be sold by NPC's to keep the costs cheap.

That way the character has something that he or she can sell, is severely disadvantaged through unlearning, which should discourage the character from attempting to do so.

This would be pretty useless. No point unlearning anything if you don't gain anything by doing it. Would be just better to train something instead.

This would be pretty useless. No point unlearning anything if you don't gain anything by doing it. Would be just better to train something instead.

Eve as stands now is becoming too easy, eve needs to be tough, it needs to force you to make tough choices, and you need to live with those choices.

train 1x skill, move sp form that skill to higher training multiplier skill and repeat.

Clearly you have a personal stake in this question maybe you trained Heavy Missiles to 5 and no longer like flying drakes

My 2 Cents

A similar technique as this was used in SWG during the combat upgrade, which caused a massive influx of Jedi characters (made it easier to unlock the Jedi slot). Bounty Hunters (BH) worked hard to keep the Jedi population in check (each death resulted in skill loss), but being able to stack low level skills then reinvest them up the ladder allowed Jedi to quickly go from Padawan level (easily taken out by one BH) to a Knight (can survive 2 to more BHs) before their visibility (how quickly they show up on the Bounty terminals again) increased significantly.

I made my Jedi during this time period and within a few weeks was able to dispatch a three-man bounty hunter squad with relative ease. If I knew that this would eventually ruin the game, I would've preferred for the developers to not allow skill reimbursement. I would've even preferred them to have kept the permadeath mechanic in for Jedi.

TL:DR: Skill reimbursement is a bad idea and will ruin game balance. For the good of the game, I prefer not even entertaining the idea of a one-time deal.

In short... HELL NO....

The main reasons I'm against this:

1.) You've already benefited from the skills you trained, and you can continue to benefit from them if you choose.

2.) It eliminates any consequences for the SP Training decisions you've made. Losses are realizable in even, decisions matter, saying "I made a mistake" should not lesson this.

3.) If it was frequent enough (annual or more), why bother training at any rate other than max... Map Int/Mem or Prec/Will... train marginal skills that aren't immediately important... and remap them once a year to off-map skills... You ultimately accrue SP faster, spend less on implants, and this method is inherently biased towards older players that don't need to train Ship skills, support skills, nav skills, which all have different attribute requirements.

4.) It enhances FOTM and simultaneously diminishes the value of foresight. When big patches hit, things change... New ships and modules become in demand to both be flown and created... If you had the foresight and pretrained, you can take advantage of the changes while other players scramble to train up to do so... With a Remap... there is not advantageous period as people can insta-swap.

5.) It destroys the character bazaar. Total SP a character has is not nearly as important as how they have that SP distributed. You essentially remove this aspect from the bazaar.

6.) Even if you allow it only once in a character's life time, we all know you'll be whining and bitching again in another year how you've changed your course through EvE, and want to move SP around again...

1.) You've already benefited from the skills you trained, and you can continue to benefit from them if you choose.

BS argument. Following this argument you shouldn't be able to sell ships you have bought in the past.

2.) It eliminates any consequences for the SP Training decisions you've made. Your decisions matter, and saying "I made a mistake" should not lesson this.

No it doesn't. It just makes the decision/mistake not permanent.

3.) If it was frequent enough (annual or more), why bother training at any rate other than max... Map Int/Mem or Prec/Will... train marginal skills that aren't immediately important... and remap them once a year to off-map skills... You ultimately accrue SP faster, spend less on implants, and this method is inherently biased towards older players that don't need to train Ship skills, support skills, nav skills, which all have different attribute requirements.

Agreed, usage should not be unlimited. For example by linking it to Remap counter

4.) It enhances FOTM and simultaneously diminishes the value of foresight. When big patches hit, things change... New ships and modules become in demand to both be flown and created... If you had the foresight and pretrained, you can take advantage of the changes while other players scramble to train up to do so... With a Remap... there is not advantageous period as people can insta-swap.

No, see 2 & 3

5.) It destroys the character bazaar. Total SP a character has is not nearly as important as how they have that SP distributed. You essentially remove this aspect from the bazaar.

And the character bazaar is a good thing? It is a P2W, which is frowned upon by EVE players in general.

It doesn't give your control over your own character (name, appearance, ..). It allows scammers, awoxer and other wrong-doers to dodge consequence by getiting rid off bad reputation, (corp) history through buying/ replacing characters.

6.) Even if you allow it only once in a character's life time, we all know you'll be whining and bitching again in another year how you've changed your course through EvE, and want to move SP around again...

How is SP reallocation significantly different than attributes remapping? SP realloc effects SP training in the past, where remap training in the future.

Or do you propose to remove remap as well?

...
Your analogy is falacious. The correct analogy, following my argument, is you shouldn't be able to return a ship after you buy it, and guess what, you can't!!
When you buy a ship in EvE, you can attempt to resell it, sometimes for a profit, sometimes for a loss... but you don't get to undo your purchase because you no longer want the ship. To even provide a relevant example, many supercarrier & titan pilots didn't get to "undo" their purchases when their supercaps were nerfed... while they could sell those assets, it was often at a significant loss!

...
Imagine I rat in a carrier... and one day I make a mistake that gets it destroyed... Should I be able to undo the consequence of my action and have it reimburesed... Is it right the mistake I made is permanent? Or how about if I accept a contract that I didn't read carefully enough, and it resulted in me losing a billion isk... Can I have that undone, just once a year... so my mistake isn't permanent? Guess what, in EvE... your losses are perment... your decesions are irreversable... Some things get a "are you sure you want to do this" warning... but when you CHOOSE to do it, you must deal with the consequences of your choice. The same applies to skillpoints!!!!

...
Remap counters are annual... I just explained that even annual SP redistribution would be abused... I have ~100m SP on my mains, and I would never unspec Perc/Will. I'd train at max rate all year... and once every year I'd simply redistribute my SP to instantly train new useful skills (like MJD, Target breaker Spectrum, Sensor Comp skills, etc)... this would not be a good thing!

...
Likewise-- see 2&3... Right before the summer patch, I could retrain to insure I pickup all the new BC & Dessie skills... Right after the last patch, I could retrain to produce BO BS's with perfect skills to profit from their buff... Last Summer I could have insta-trained to use and/or make t2 Siege/Triage modules. etc, etc... Big changes to the game happen 1-2 times a year... and this mechanic allows me to take full advantage of the changes with little to no foresight.

There is a big difference between P2W and the character bazaar (and PLEX for that matter). You should also do a forum search to understand the subtle difference between pay to win, and the options available to EvE players, as it's been discussed many times. To summarize:
Pay to win implies you get in game advantages for out of game money... That does NOT HAPPEN in EvE.

This is subtle, so you need to think about it before responding:
From anyone elses perspective... you buying plex does NOT enable a character to earn SP faster. you buying plex does NOT give you an isk advantage. Why? Because the isk you gained via selling plex was already in game... the character you bazaared had already accrued SP. Those assets already existed in game, completely independent of whether or not you ascertained them by exchanging game time for it.

I understand, from your perspective... you spend RL money and gain a character with lots of SP, and a bunch of isk... so it seems like pay2win... but no new advantages were created via your purchase... Plex, and the character bazaar are actually very ingenious, as it allows people to exchange future game time for efforts already achieved in game. It is specifically NOT pay 2 win, because NO NEW ADVANTAGES are created via PLEX!!!

...

They didn't used to allow annual remaps, and they changed it because your attribute mapping significantly effect your training rate. In general, new players don't have the knowledge and experience to truly know what they wish to do long term in EvE, not to mention their goals are very much subject to change as they and EvE evolve through various emergent gameplay.

...
Your analogy is falacious. The correct analogy, following my argument, is you shouldn't be able to return a ship after you buy it, and guess what, you can't!!
When you buy a ship in EvE, you can attempt to resell it, sometimes for a profit, sometimes for a loss... but you don't get to undo your purchase because you no longer want the ship. To even provide a relevant example, many supercarrier & titan pilots didn't get to "undo" their purchases when their supercaps were nerfed... while they could sell those assets, it was often at a significant loss!

So your argument is that SP reallocation doesn't suffer from chance/skil in making profit or losses on them? That can be address by putting maximum on the amount of SP that can be reallocated or a percentage (80, flexible?) of the old SP to be placed into new skills. For changing an Indus alt to PvP alt the SP loss is now almost 100%.

...
Imagine I rat in a carrier... and one day I make a mistake that gets it destroyed... Should I be able to undo the consequence of my action and have it reimburesed... Is it right the mistake I made is permanent? Or how about if I accept a contract that I didn't read carefully enough, and it resulted in me losing a billion isk... Can I have that undone, just once a year... so my mistake isn't permanent? Guess what, in EvE... your losses are perment... your decesions are irreversable... Some things get a "are you sure you want to do this" warning... but when you CHOOSE to do it, you must deal with the consequences of your choice. The same applies to skillpoints!!!!

From all the resources/assets(ISK, PLEX, ships, SP, attributes) in the game SP is the one for which your decisions are the most definitive and offer the least degrees of freedom to change. The idea is to change that.

...
Remap counters are annual... I just explained that even annual SP redistribution would be abused... I have ~100m SP on my mains, and I would never unspec Perc/Will. I'd train at max rate all year... and once every year I'd simply redistribute my SP to instantly train new useful skills (like MJD, Target breaker Spectrum, Sensor Comp skills, etc)... this would not be a good thing!

Is people optimize their game play by using mechanics is and using multi step approaches to get more, bad? Then I must be very bad exchanging LPs for modules I sell on the market to pay for my purchases of faction ships while maximizing ISK/LP.

...
however, it was explained to me that "once you learn a skill, how can you unlearn it?"
i mean, i cant know how to drive a car today and then tomorrow act as if i never drove before in my life and be a mathmatician.
...