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Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 09:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
What kind of message is CCP sending by allowing this?
If you spam activate gate at a faction warfare acceleration gate you are invulnerable to targeting. Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |

Jadokun
Vengance Inc. Renegade Alliance
5
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Posted - 2013.03.30 09:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
I second this. Quite frustrating. |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1194
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Working as intended CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |

Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
19
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
The message is get in a ship that can enter the plex and fight inside. |

BadAssMcKill
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
198
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Generates a session change, working as intended Starships were meant to fly~ |

Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
407
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Posting in a "waaah why can't I circumvent plex gating requirements by camping the entrance" thread.
Think about jumpgate camps. Do you catch the guys warping TO your gate, or AWAY from your gate? |

Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
BadAssMcKill wrote:Generates a session change, working as intended Why would we want another point of invulnerability that isn't a gate or a station?
Giving someone invulnerability while they activate a gate does three things:
1. Forces a fight to be moved to another point still in space (meaningless) 2. Stalls for backup (4-5 seconds to activate a gate is a lot of time) 3. Keeps larger ships out of fights
How is any of this "fair" when the ships are in space? I thought Eve's mantra is you're only safe if you're docked.
Takseen wrote:Posting in a "waaah why can't I circumvent plex gating requirements by camping the entrance" thread.
Think about jumpgate camps. Do you catch the guys warping TO your gate, or AWAY from your gate? We landed on the guy (he was in a stealth bomber) and we were already a little behind him. He got in.
It's not as if there are already game mechanics in place to prevent this sort of thing from happening (d-scan at celestials.) Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |

Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
409
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Giving someone invulnerability while they activate a gate does three things:
1. Forces a fight to be moved to another point still in space (meaningless) 2. Stalls for backup (4-5 seconds to activate a gate is a lot of time) 3. Keeps larger ships out of fights
How is any of this "fair" when the ships are in space? I thought Eve's mantra is you're only safe if you're docked.
Welcome to FW. A place where blobbing, hotdropping and just bringing bigger ships is less effective than normal. Its also an enormously popular pvp area. I'm sure the two facts are purely coincidental. |

Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
409
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 10:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote: Pre-WTZ you caught people everywhere. CCP just seems to keep removing places to fight. It's already difficult enough to find an engagement, why give people in low security space more safe zones?
A FW plex is hardly a safe zone. Just warp your fleet in there and go kill him.
|

Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
19
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Posted - 2013.03.30 10:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
1. Forcing a fight to another area of space where you have an advantage is not meaningless its smart. 2. Stalling for backup this is also a good idea. 3. Keeping larger ships out of the fight also a good idea if your not the one with the large ships.
Its simple the choke point is at the landing beacon not the gate. This means that your going to have to land at 0 of whatever hard tackle is in the plex. Not nice for kiters but thats what the scanners for. |

March rabbit
No Name No Pain
597
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 11:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
totally depends of some factors. Once i got pointed and killed by doing this. So i guess it is CCP-style: someone got lucky and someone got not |

Leper ofBacon
HELP GRANDMA SMASH HER LEGS IN
6
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Posted - 2013.03.30 11:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
I hate this mechanic for the same reason as the OP, it adds extra zones of safety to an environment that already gives massive advantage to the defending player rather than the pursuers. I can see the reasons for the ship size chokepoint system of the gates but really why should you ever be immune in this way? |

Takseen
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
410
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 11:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:totally depends of some factors. Once i got pointed and killed by doing this. So i guess it is CCP-style: someone got lucky and someone got not
I know we caught a Manticore on a mission gate once. I know if you warp to zero and try to activate the gate you can get "stuck" on it sometimes. Perhaps you're still vulnerable to being pointed at that stage? |

Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1296
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Takseen wrote:March rabbit wrote:totally depends of some factors. Once i got pointed and killed by doing this. So i guess it is CCP-style: someone got lucky and someone got not I know we caught a Manticore on a mission gate once. I know if you warp to zero and try to activate the gate you can get "stuck" on it sometimes. Perhaps you're still vulnerable to being pointed at that stage?
There is a bit of timing involved. If you mess it up, you can get caught. CCP did try and nullify it a bit when they changed it so everyone has to move towards a gate/jump (you land at 0, but still get "approaching XX"). In the warfare and tactics thread(s), or the features and ideas thread(s) about this, I believe CCP even stated they're fine with it now, as they want the fights in the plex, not on the gates.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
388
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Giving someone invulnerability while they activate a gate does three things:
1. Forces a fight to be moved to another point still in space (meaningless) 2. Stalls for backup (4-5 seconds to activate a gate is a lot of time) 3. Keeps larger ships out of fights
FW plex mechanics are the core of FW as home for solo/small gangs/no-blob gameplay. Is what force people to ship down and to be reasonable in numbers if you want a fight; nobody will give you free and easy kills, you have to fight and get risks too; sorry for that.
Works as intended.
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Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
294
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Siigari Kitawa wrote:
Giving someone invulnerability while they activate a gate does three things:
1. Forces a fight to be moved to another point still in space (meaningless) 2. Stalls for backup (4-5 seconds to activate a gate is a lot of time) 3. Keeps larger ships out of fights
FW plex mechanics are the core of FW as home for solo/small gangs/no-blob gameplay. Is what force people to ship down and to be reasonable in numbers if you want a fight; nobody will give you free and easy kills, you have to fight and get risks too; sorry for that. Works as intended. If this is true then instead of smashing the gate activate button, it should just grant invulnerability by default if you have activated the gate.
But it doesn't, so this is a seemingly unintended problem which should be addressed. It sends conflicting signals, and it also does not fall in-line with Eve gameplay. If faction warfare players want to do plexes that is fine by me. But restricting PVP in one of the open PVP zones of Eve (lowsec) means that the rules are different for some, and not all. Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
3929
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote: CCP just seems to keep removing places to fight. It's already difficult enough to find an engagement, why give people in low security space more safe zones?
Move to Null ? There is much to be said in favour of modern journalism. By giving us the opinions of the uneducated, it keeps us in touch with the ignorance of the community.-á-á-á-á - Oscar Wilde |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13411
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
The enemy's gate is down? Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1432
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:If you spam activate gate at a faction warfare acceleration gate you are invulnerable to targeting. Does this work when you're 30km or even 5km from the gate? I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
389
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote: If this is true then instead of smashing the gate activate button, it should just grant invulnerability by default if you have activated the gate.
But it doesn't, so this is a seemingly unintended problem which should be addressed. It sends conflicting signals, and it also does not fall in-line with Eve gameplay. If faction warfare players want to do plexes that is fine by me. But restricting PVP in one of the open PVP zones of Eve (lowsec) means that the rules are different for some, and not all.
Restrict PvP? FW mechanics actually [u]increase[/u ]PVP (can check the stats to see this), but one have to accept some standards, like: nobody will gift you with easy kills on a silver plate, have to ship properly and so on.
FW plexes already show as a blinking arrow saying "target here, warp me" in overview, don't have to scan or do anything to find them. And the ship restriction on activate is not a specific of FW gates.
You were only with the wrong ship on the gate or you could follow your target. And, yes, is a pain when you are blobbing someone having to face the risk for him calling for backup, is unfair: Blobbing have to be one-sided and granted so by game mechanics :)
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
389
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote: Does this work when you're 30km or even 5km from the gate?
It's when you warp at 10, on many gates (I dont think is FW plex thing) you land at 0 so the session change starts immediatly.
That "target is invulnerable" message only means the session change is in progress server side. But always been so, I think they only added/changed the message now. |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1432
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sura Sadiva wrote:Karl Hobb wrote: Does this work when you're 30km or even 5km from the gate?
It's when you warp at 10, on many gates (I dont think is FW plex thing) you land at 0 so the session change starts immediatly. What? If I warp to 10 I'll end up somewhere around 10km from the gate, am I invulnerable while my ship travels to 2.5km from the gate if I spam "Activate"? I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
480
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 12:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
I never had this trouble, in fact, just last night i was roaming lowsec with some mates, we came across two groups fighting th e acceleration gate to a caldari medium. we engaged. their was a maller and caracal BOTH trying to warp into the site to escape the fight, i targeted both, and killed both, they were in no way buntargetable (and the killmail with 6 other people would attest to them not having the issue either) |

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
389
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 13:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote: What? If I warp to 10 I'll end up somewhere around 10km from the gate, am I invulnerable while my ship travels to 2.5km from the gate if I spam "Activate"?
No, you select "warpt to 10" and you land at 0.
But this happens to all acceleration gates (and many other structures, always been so, I think depeneds by the structure model and where the warp point is positioned in repsect of it).
Only difference is FW plexes are visible on overwiew so is easyer to select "warp to 10" while for normal plexes you don't have the "warp to 10" option in the system scanner.
The "target is invulnerable" is only a message added then the session change already started. But the mechanics isn't changed and isn't FW specific. |

Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
295
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 14:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Just added the clip to Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7y7LLfwdk Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1433
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 15:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7y7LLfwdk That's some ****** music, and is the self-portrait webcam really needed? I guess if you throw a lot of tantrums it could be somewhat exciting...
Also, you're crying over nothing. You don't get your panties in a bunch over a stargate activation or someone docking up, do you? I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |

Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
295
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 15:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Siigari Kitawa wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7y7LLfwdk That's some ****** music, and is the self-portrait webcam really needed? I guess if you throw a lot of tantrums it could be somewhat exciting... Also, you're crying over nothing. You don't get your panties in a bunch over a stargate activation or someone docking up, do you? Put yourself in my shoes. Out PVPing and suddenly something unexpected happens that ruins your fun. Would that upset you or would you be like, oh well, I'm glad that he got away. Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |

Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 15:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Siigari Kitawa wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E7y7LLfwdk That's some ****** music, and is the self-portrait webcam really needed? I guess if you throw a lot of tantrums it could be somewhat exciting... Also, you're crying over nothing. You don't get your panties in a bunch over a stargate activation or someone docking up, do you? Agreed. Just some stupid tears in the OP.
Get in an appropriate ship and follow the person into the plex if you really want to fight. Oh, what, you really just want to gank a noob's destroyer with your faction or tech II cruiser or whatever? Suck it.
Working as intended, etc. |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1433
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 15:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:Put yourself in my shoes. I'd rather not because you have ****** music.
Siigari Kitawa wrote: Out PVPing and suddenly something unexpected happens that ruins your fun. Would that upset you or would you be like, oh well, I'm glad that he got away. I'd take it in stride because I know that he got off a session change before I could lock him. If he cloaked up on the other side, he outplayed me. I certainly wouldn't come here crying about something that appears to be working as intended. I support Malcanis and Psychotic Monk for CSM8. |

Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
296
|
Posted - 2013.03.30 15:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Siigari Kitawa wrote:Put yourself in my shoes. I'd rather not because you have ****** music. Siigari Kitawa wrote: Out PVPing and suddenly something unexpected happens that ruins your fun. Would that upset you or would you be like, oh well, I'm glad that he got away. I'd take it in stride because I know that he got off a session change before I could lock him. If he cloaked up on the other side, he outplayed me. I certainly wouldn't come here crying about something that appears to be working as intended. Putting aside for the moment that you're an a-hole, I was not privy to knowing about session changes in intra-system space->space transitions.
But if the person is under a session change, then I'm just going to create a fleet and sit in space moving fleet members around. Every time you move a fleet member they undergo a session change timer. Did you know that? But guess what, when they're under THAT kind of a session change timer I can still lock and blow them up. Interesting how that works.
Okay back to the part about you being an a-hole: I produce and mix trance for a living. If you don't like my music I don't care, but you don't need to harp (pun intended) about it. Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |
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