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Savion
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Posted - 2005.09.05 03:32:00 -
[1]
I quit back in February and came back now.
Was trying to do missions and when I left I could solo level 3 missions and now I can't even do level 2 missions by myself. What the hell?
It's all this missle BS, I can't outrun them, can't defend myself in any way really so am I missing something or are they just worthless now?
Is all thats left is a bigger = better philosophy now? Whats the point of any small ships, or drones even if missles just destroy all of them.
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Roba
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Posted - 2005.09.05 03:43:00 -
[2]
Don't worry.
You need to switch to an assult frigate.
They don't have speed. But with the missile changes they can take on the battleship spawns in lvl 4 missiles.
Try something like.
Retirbution:
4x pulse laser II
1x AB II
1x cap relay
2x small armor rep
2x hardner
Vengance:
3x pulse laser II
1x medium sheild booster (officer)
2x hardners (active specifics)
3x pwr diag II
I have never flown anything other then ammarr for missions so I have no idea how to setup other assult frigates.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.05 03:44:00 -
[3]
"It's all this missle BS, I can't outrun them, can't defend myself in any way really so am I missing something or are they just worthless now?"
There's two ways of defense against missiles now: speed and signature radius.
If you're flying with mwd off your signature size is small and all missiles except rockets will do reduced damage against you. The bigger missile, the bigger reduction.
If you're flying fast enough (enough being ~3 km/sec or more) the missiles will still hit you, but their damage will be reduced a lot because they have something called 'explosion velocity' -- the faster your ship moves than this 'explosion velocity' the less damage missile will do to you. So for interceptors if you can use mwd it's useful to set 10-15 km orbit, open the mwd and laugh at the damage. If you can still hit the target while going at this speed, that is.
On the other hand about the worst thing you can do is to have the mwd turned on while you're moving slow, like less than 1 km/sec (due to being webbed or whatever) because then you get no damage reduction from speed, and your increased signature allows missiles to hit you harder.
hope it helps o.O;
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2005.09.05 04:36:00 -
[4]
You can do all lvl 2 missions in a crow with rockets. The Damsel and the Drone Silo are the only 2 that should be particularly hard.
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flamingmarmo
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Posted - 2005.09.05 06:54:00 -
[5]
For the retribution i find 2 repairers doesn't work to well try fitting a heat sink instead your tank will still be extremly strong. If your cap skills are less than 4/5 then stick to energized membranes to keep everything going indefinatly.
I've easily tanked L4 missions (angel) as loong as your transversal is fairly high and your going 400m+ missiles will barely scratch and anything over a 50k cruiser will miss and if they do hit well thats what the insane resistances are for.
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Pict1on
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Posted - 2005.09.05 07:09:00 -
[6]
i have been doind lvl 3's in my harpy tried it with my crow... took twice the time..
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Krugari
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Posted - 2005.09.05 07:10:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Ghoest
You can do all lvl 2 missions in a crow with rockets. The Damsel and the Drone Silo are the only 2 that should be particularly hard.
If you actually take out anything other than the silo that is... Going straight for the silo and then warping out will let you complete this mission in a few minutes without exposing yourself to more than a few light missiles.
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Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.09.05 08:45:00 -
[8]
I have done all level 2 missions in my Daredevil, which is a tech 1 frigate. So yes, the interceptors are pretty worthless nowdays (not as worthless as AFs though).
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NateX
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Posted - 2005.09.05 09:44:00 -
[9]
Ceptors just fit into theres PVP role now, they are not Ubber more but tacklers as they are meant to be(and a little more) :)
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.09.05 10:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Denrace on 05/09/2005 10:36:26
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
(not as worthless as AFs though).
get a clue. such a narrowminded view of AF's could only be the reason why you are completely and utterly wrong. AF's hit hard, tank well and play an extremely important part in pvp. they are not worthless and have never been worthless and never will BE worthless.
Try flying one 
My retribution does even some level 4 missions, even 6/10 complexes.
Custom Sigs Made! Gallery Link:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/ |
Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.09.05 11:13:00 -
[11]
Yes, AFs are more worthless than ceptors, simply because there is no task that the AF is best at. At least ceptors can tackle (although that is becoming a less useful task).
AFs can do nothing better or as good as a HAC can do, for example.
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.09.05 12:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Yes, AFs are more worthless than ceptors, simply because there is no task that the AF is best at. At least ceptors can tackle (although that is becoming a less useful task).
AFs can do nothing better or as good as a HAC can do, for example.
I have great fun in my harpy, can do better PvE than I do in a cruiser, They much easir to get into than a HAC are cheaper by a great degree.
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Vladimir Pushka
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Posted - 2005.09.05 12:16:00 -
[13]
AF's do lvl 3's better than a HAC. Only from an economic point of view.
HAC skill = 25 million + 75 - 120 million for ship = 100 - 145 mil total
That means for missions that return 1/100 th of the cost of the ship and skill, you have spent 6 x the money you would have if you bought a AF from the start. Don't forget this doesn't include modules and medium weapons. Take the time it takes to learn HAC's into consideration and that makes the argument to fly AF's pretty strong. Just my opinion though.
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Mirchuska
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Posted - 2005.09.05 12:42:00 -
[14]
OP: You really need to look up the missile sticky and see how missiles work. Never has there been a time when interceptors could be more effective when being spammed by missiles.
It's possible to take the brunt of a silly number of NPCs in a ceptor know with the right tactics. I've absorbed/avoided the damage from a spawn my fully tanked typhoon couldnt handle (missiles were the main problem) with a single named small shield booster whilst a friendly raven took them apart.
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.09.05 12:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ghoest
You can do all lvl 2 missions in a crow with rockets. The Damsel and the Drone Silo are the only 2 that should be particularly hard.
Errr... You must be kidding right? Or the crow is a pretty crapy ship, 'cause i can handle every single level 2 mission in my punisher - tech I non faction frigate - (I've only a bit more than 1M SP, playing for one month, with half of my SP into learning), and with my rifter I only have troubles with silent the informant (I shield tank it, maybe it's a mistake, and it's the only mission where there is enough missile on me to prevent me from tanking damage enough with only a small shield booster II that I can't run forever).
Now I switched for a rupture for level 2 missions, but only because it's quicker. I often get my rifter or punisher out to do them though, as it's really not fun in rupture (too easy).
(PS: when I say all level 2 mission, I don't talk about the kill storyline where you have to fight intys, as I haven't got it since I lost my succubus 2 weeks ago on it, and I lost it only because I've made lots of mistake, had not enough skills to fit a web, and had it not well fitted).
With the reduced sig radius on the claw, you should have much less troubles than a punisher with a basic crapy setting (like small rep, 200mm plate, energized adaptive membrane in low, web+AB - or MWD for approach, dunno - in med as well as a cap recharger, and whatever you want to kill in high, setting distance to something like 10km). you should do much better than my punisher, being able to tank as much and being much faster with a lower sig radius. (the fitting I talked about is just an adaptation of what I have on my punisher to the crow slots setup).
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Savion
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Posted - 2005.09.05 14:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Savion on 05/09/2005 14:36:23
Edited by: Savion on 05/09/2005 14:33:26
Thanks for the help Roby.
Theres no way I can run 2 armor repairers at once though, it's hard for me to keep one up.
I see how the missle stuffs now, the problem with my interceptor is I couldn't even get in range to see it working, I'd just get pounded with missles from 40km away.
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Neon Genesis
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Posted - 2005.09.05 14:37:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Neon Genesis on 05/09/2005 14:37:45
__
There, i just contributed nothing to your thread
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
AFs can do nothing better or as good as a HAC can do, for example.
depends if u fly caldari 
i would MUCH rather fly my harpy than a caldari HAC
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RabbidFerret
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Posted - 2005.09.06 01:03:00 -
[19]
So what happens if you have a MWD on and you doing say...1.5k? Did they change missile speeds or can i still outrun cruise missles in my rifter.
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Trelennen
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Posted - 2005.09.06 01:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: RabbidFerret
So what happens if you have a MWD on and you doing say...1.5k? Did they change missile speeds or can i still outrun cruise missles in my rifter.
Can you fly at more than 3750m/s in your rifter? I guess not, then you can't outrun them (and this speed is without missile skills of course).
If you go at 1.5k, well, it won't do much. Take a look at the missile damage calculation formula, and you'll see. Basicaly, with the formula you need to fly at 1500m/s more than the explosion velocity for speed to be a noticeable factor for decreasing damage. That is for light missiles (without missile skills) you need to fly at least at 2.5km/s to have a noticeable decrease in damage taken, and 2km/s for cruise. The main factor for damage taken by missiles is signature. That's why intys are really good (at least against players, as NPCs seems to act a bit differently).
Of course you don't want to use a MWD when you have missiles coming on you, specialy in an inty. Missile users keep using intys to make their point how missiles have been nerfed too much etc. 'cause they get very little damage even when not moving (as long as they don't have an active MWD) because of their little signature, but of course they omit to mention that missiles can no longer be outrun and that speed is now pretty useless to limit damage taken, making all regular frigs good targets for missiles (and that's why missiles NPCs are the most annoying when in a frigate now).
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Maverick McDougel
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Posted - 2005.09.06 01:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Yes, AFs are more worthless than ceptors, simply because there is no task that the AF is best at. At least ceptors can tackle (although that is becoming a less useful task).
AFs can do nothing better or as good as a HAC can do, for example.
Captain Obvious for the win. This post started out about frigates and low level missions, there is no reason why you couldn't do those in a frigate. You want to know what the AF are best at? Being assault frigates thats what. They tank well, hit hard- wait doesn't this sound like someone else's post? but only for a frigate.
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RabbidFerret
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Posted - 2005.09.06 02:57:00 -
[22]
sounds like missiles were not the only thing nerfed then. What im getting here is that lets say im fighting...i dont know a Moa in my inty (which i dont have) or even a frig...is a MWD even an option. Chances have it the moa will be using heavy missiles and rails. You speed up with the MWD and the missiles do more damage because of sig, slow down and the rails have a shot on you.
Slowing down while missiles are on your tail just seems to go against everything lol. Is speed even an important factor anymore?
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Motec
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Posted - 2005.09.06 05:31:00 -
[23]
Originally by: RabbidFerret
sounds like missiles were not the only thing nerfed then. What im getting here is that lets say im fighting...i dont know a Moa in my inty (which i dont have) or even a frig...is a MWD even an option. Chances have it the moa will be using heavy missiles and rails. You speed up with the MWD and the missiles do more damage because of sig, slow down and the rails have a shot on you.
Slowing down while missiles are on your tail just seems to go against everything lol. Is speed even an important factor anymore?
I wouldn't say missles been nerfed, maybe just brought in line with turrets and needing slight tweaking? I still think for an interceptor mwd still works good mwd'ing around a ship makes it hard for there turrets to track and mostly reduced missle dmg, just more of a pvp ship then pve. The only thing I see different is interceptors can't run around tackling anything they feel like it without getting hit. My thoughts at least.
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