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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1071
   |
Posted - 2013.04.03 14:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
A fortnight ago, I said this:
Stitcher wrote:The Federation has lost all the respect it had earned from me. The Federal government has once again shown their contempt for peace, their disregard for common human decency, and their willingness to resort to violence rather than their own democratic principles when they encounter a dissenting voice.
The aftermath of the battle for Home has been an interlude of reason and respect. I was resigned to the idea that the bitterness between the Caldari and Gallente was intractible and insurmountable. I was convinced that the Federation was essentially unchanged from the ultra-nat era of the Exile War.
It is gratifying to be proven so resoundingly wrong.
I know that there are some on this side of the border who are arguing that the only reason the Federation has agreed to this treaty was their failure to claim a commanding hold over the planetary defense grid. the cynics may well have a point in that regard, but I think today I'm going to work only with what has happened.
I retract, and apologize for, the quoted opinion. It was said in the grip of a raised temper and a feeling of desperate futility. It is regrettable that the Shiigeru had to fall at all, but the fact is that its destruction precipitated the first real progress we have seen in years. I have often expressed the opinion that change does not have to be comfortable in order to be good - I commend the Federation for demonstrating that principle in action.
The reception and co-operation we have seen this last week almost seem too good to be true. As an experienced capsuleer, that makes me wary - "if it seems too good to be true, it probably is" is a survival mantra for immortals. But as an optimistic citizen of the State and of humanity in general, I am also given hope. There are still wounds to heal, there is still friction to smooth away, there is still a proxy war smouldering in lowsec. Our work is not done and while I do not wish for our differences to be reconciled - they are what defines us, after all - I am now more persuaded than I was before that our differences can be resolved without resorting to harming and violating one another.
We shall see how it goes: don't screw this up.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Lucas Raholan
Agenda Industries
62
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Posted - 2013.04.03 16:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
I am glad to see that there are Caldari prepared to step back and look at how the post-battle situation has played out, had I seen the Minmatar drop a Titan on Amarr Prime then I would have been just as enraged as you were immediately after Operation Highlander, your initial anger is completely understandable.
I hope that this opportunity to finally broker a peaceful solution to the issue of who rules Caldari Prime follows through and the Gallente Senate pass through the treaty and gods praise, Heth has a brief flicker of sanity and recognizes this is going to be the only and last chance he will get to keep Caldari Prime under Caldari control.
I'm secretly a unicorn that Sh**ts fairy dust and sings all day-á |
Nick Bete
The Scope
Gallente Federation
205
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Posted - 2013.04.03 16:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's nice to see finally a bit of rationality and civility in this ongoing discussion. Thank you Captain Stitcher. |
Sepherim
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
353
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Posted - 2013.04.03 17:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
Congratulations, captain Stitcher, it takes a lot of will and a brave mind to accept your own mistakes publicly and apologize for them, and even more to be willing to lend the hand and work with the new truth. I'm still, personally, not so sure on your current analysis of the situation, and am more inclined for the cynical side, but I still applaud your valor here.
Sepherim Catillah
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Ensign
Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2380
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Posted - 2013.04.03 17:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:I know that there are some on this side of the border who are arguing that the only reason the Federation has agreed to this treaty was their failure to claim a commanding hold over the planetary defense grid. the cynics may well have a point in that regard, but I think today I'm going to work only with what has happened.
Although it makes me uncomfortable, I have to admit this is a possibility. I'd like to think it's not the case, but I can't know for sure.
I would, of course, like to remark that doing the right thing for the wrong reasons doesn't make it any less right.
Mane 614
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TomHorn
Horn and Brothers
New Eden Research.
92
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Posted - 2013.04.03 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
For me the Shiigeru incident is very much like the Malkalen incident except on very much smaller scale. Still thousands of Caldari lives have been lost needlesley. Due to the extreme measures of the Federation.
I can understand why Tibus Heth is annoyed about the signing of this agreement. Some of the Mega Corporations think about profit first, but Tibus Heth thinks about the Caldari citizens first.
Heil Heth
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1079
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Posted - 2013.04.03 18:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
The death toll of the battle for Home was substantially larger than the Malkalen death toll. Malkalen ran to 600,000. the fall of the Shiigeru has cost millions, possibly tens of millions.
The corporations in this case are diverting materiel and manpower to Home for humanitarian aid and ecological cleanup. Neither of those activities are profitable. the Executor meanwhile apparently wishes to continue the war and cost Caldari lives, Caldari equipment and Caldari kredits.
Pull your head out from where you've stuffed it, wash your mustache and smell the coffee. Tibus Heth and the CPD are bad for the State.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
59
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Posted - 2013.04.03 18:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
That's interesting, Mr. Horn; I thought that these corporations were giving gifts of aid supplies to Caldari and Gallente civilians on the surface, which is antithetical to profit? Whereas Heth demanded the use of these supplies for the war effort, reducing the aid for civilians in favor of trying to kill more Gallente...?
The take-away, then, is that Executor Heth cares more about killing Gallente fleet personnel than he does saving Caldari civilians. |
Shiho Weitong
Koa Mai Hoku
Nulli Legio
1
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Posted - 2013.04.03 18:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Well spoken Stitcher.
Even though i do not agree with the treaty as it is outlined right now, this is a major step in the right direction towards peace. Ishanoya again proved worthy of the job, signing that treaty was a really huge deal for State justice. It also very openly exposed Heths complete disregard for proper conduct. While I do not hold Caldari Prime as close to my heart as you clearly do, I was both shocked and appalled by the destruction wrecked upon the planet and the innocent civilians.
I do hope we can finally begin to look to the future with renewed hope. While there will probably always be tension in these systems we all call home, hopefully we can all just learn to somehow coexist. I know this is a pipe dream of course, but one is allowed to have those.
And to you mister Horn.
Tibus Heth might be the de facto leader of the State but that does not grant him the privilege of ignoring CEP by-laws.
Consider this.
Not signing that treaty is bordering on treachery to the state. |
TomHorn
Horn and Brothers
New Eden Research.
92
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Posted - 2013.04.03 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Quote:The death toll of the battle for Home was substantially larger than the Malkalen death toll. Malkalen ran to 600,000. the fall of the Shiigeru has cost millions, possibly tens of millions.
Well let me correct myself Stitcher.
For me the Shiigeru incident is very much like the Malkalen incident except on very much grander scale. Millions of Caldari citizens have needlesley lost there lives. Due to the extreme actions of the Federation.
Quote:the Executor meanwhile apparently wishes to continue the war
Seems reasonable since the Federation has only recently killed millions of Caldari citizens.
Quote:Tibus Heth and the CPD are bad for the State.
Traitor !
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DEADS0NG
0
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Posted - 2013.04.03 19:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Normally I enjoy just sitting back in my little world of freelance operations and loose morals, enjoying a private laugh at the rabble rousing that I often see in these political discussions, but even I can't keep a straight face at the mention of Heth putting Caldari civilians before the killing of Gallente personnel. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
61
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Posted - 2013.04.03 20:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Interesting how the word 'traitor' is thrown about so easily by those who are now being marginalized. |
Lialus Raithe
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
188
|
Posted - 2013.04.03 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
TomHorn wrote:
For me the Shiigeru incident is very much like the Malkalen incident except on very much grander scale. Millions of Caldari citizens have needlesley lost there lives. Due to the extreme actions of the Federation.
Two corrections:
One: The lives lost were Federation citizens held on the planet by the Shiigeru.
Two: Lives were lost by actions from both factions, Federation and State alike.
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
742
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Posted - 2013.04.03 21:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Interesting how the word 'traitor' is thrown about so easily by those who are now being marginalized.
I find myself losing patience with the mad dogs now that their master has turned against the CEP and finally placed himself beyond the pale. |
Grideris
Fleet Coordination Commission
Fleet Coordination Coalition
586
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Posted - 2013.04.03 21:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lialus Raithe wrote:TomHorn wrote:
For me the Shiigeru incident is very much like the Malkalen incident except on very much grander scale. Millions of Caldari citizens have needlesley lost there lives. Due to the extreme actions of the Federation.
Two corrections: One: The lives lost were Federation citizens held on the planet by the Shiigeru. Two: Lives were lost by actions from both factions, Federation and State alike.
The lives lost on the surface were both Caldari and Gallente alike. You would do well to remember that both sides were on the surface when the Titan went down.
And to Stitcher. We might not have interacted much over the years, but you are a man I hold a great deal of respect for. For anyone wondering why, this is a perfect example. Let's just hope that the good that has come from this is a promise of things to come, and the bad is an example to be never again repeated. Who knows, maybe actual peace between the State and the Federation is on the table within a regular person's lifetime?
http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514
http://www.dust514base.com - the blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
61
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Posted - 2013.04.03 21:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pieter; I tend to agree with you. They are free to voice their views, of course, but this degree of vitriol is unseemly at the very least.
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Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
840
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Posted - 2013.04.03 22:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Walk with wisdom, Hakatain-haan, may the Winds bring you peace and profit.
~Malcolm Khross
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Destiny Foundation
458
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Posted - 2013.04.04 01:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:I was convinced that the Federation was essentially unchanged from the ultra-nat era of the Exile War.
I always wondered why people thought this of the most reformatory and progressive (or capricious and fickle, if you like) empire in New Eden.
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1086
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Posted - 2013.04.04 01:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
A lack of evidence.
That and the fact that I have routinely see the Federation behave in a manner that is at odds with what it claims to be.
What's making this so astonishing and gratifying is the fact that it is unusual for the Federation to be so reasonable toward us, and doubly so for us to apparently be reciprocating. I'm in a good mood, but I'm not about to forget the centuries of grief we have historically suffered from the Federation just because things are going smoothly today.
We have a lot of work to do still and forgetting it will do us no good. Remembering it and holding each other to the highest standards, will.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
338
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Posted - 2013.04.04 01:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:Stitcher wrote:I was convinced that the Federation was essentially unchanged from the ultra-nat era of the Exile War. I always wondered why people thought this of the most reformatory and progressive (or capricious and fickle, if you like) empire in New Eden.
The Federation's propaganda is no more fact than the propaganda of any other nation. They are much less noble than they claim to be.
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Interesting how the word 'traitor' is thrown about so easily by those who are now being marginalized. I find myself losing patience with the mad dogs now that their master has turned against the CEP and finally placed himself beyond the pale.
I admit, I probably lost patience more quickly than I should have, but I did at least forgive them for their anti-Ishukone rhetoric calling them traitors for not following along with the majority, but now that they are completely ignoring that to accuse the majority of the state of being traitors; I have become annoyed. I pray they do not cause me to progress to anger, but right now my opinion of them is so low, I expect that to happen.
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Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1089
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Posted - 2013.04.04 01:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Majority has nothing to do with it anyway, the legitimate authority in the State has always been the corporations. The CPD were always pretenders trying to overthrow a system that, while undeniably imperfect, at least came with the advantage of not keeping us under the thumb of one individual's ideology.
A better man than I eloquently denounced that individual ideology in YC110. A bit of righteous indignation is fair enough. A little stubborn refusal to just forgive and forget is only appropriate.
But it's been said before and bears repeating that the CPD define "the good of the Caldari State" as "whatever is bad for the Gallente Federation". There is another way, and the last man to suggest it took a Nyx to the face.
Let's just see the conspirator behind that attack try and repeat it if immortals and citizens on both sides stand up and say "no more. The wounds are deep enough"
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens
Viro Mors Non Est
338
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 02:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:Majority has nothing to do with it anyway, the legitimate authority in the State has always been the corporations. "
You're right, majority opinion has nothing to do with legitimacy,. The problem is that the Provists have been using the fact that certain groups' ideologies were not in line with the majority as evidence of betrayal despite its unimportance. What is important is compliance with the CEP, and Het and CPD's defiance of them and the fact that there are conspirators loyal to them rather than the CEP is what gets me so riled up.
They have the nerve to accuse someone of betraying the state when they blatantly ignore the binding will of the central authority of the state. I cannot abide that sort of hypocrisy. |
Vikarion
Liandri Corporation
Liandri Covenant
445
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 06:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Heh.
See? I told you so. |
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
398
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 08:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
We must treasure the sacrifice that many have made for our nation. Betraying everything heroes of Shiigeru died for, and laying in a same bed with gallentean swines, who murdered millions of our citizens with their military ambition, is a worst thing one can do. |
Quinzel Nikulainen
Kokako Acquisitions
124
|
Posted - 2013.04.04 10:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:We must treasure the sacrifice that many have made for our nation. Betraying everything heroes of Shiigeru died for, and laying in a same bed with gallentean swines, who murdered millions of our citizens with their military ambition, is a worst thing one can do.
No, the worst thing a citizen can do is become so hung-up on such unproductive sentiments as revenge that they allow it to effect their personal performance and in their actions bring harm about on their own corporation or family.
Paying respect to our soldiers and giving the dead the honor that they deserve is only to be expected. Allowing your grief to consume you and blur your perception shows alarming weakness. The unfit must be culled so that the unit can thrive. |
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