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Sovereign1100
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Posted - 2005.09.11 05:26:00 -
[1]
I know everyone has their own point of view on everything thats happening, and I know everyone thinks they know all the details and exactly who is at fault.
Regardless of all the speculation and people claiming its trigger's fault, cujo's fault, or whatever....thats all BS and nonsense.
The reason there is civil war is simple: Disrespect.
I don't let people disrespect me in real life and I sure won't let them do it in a game.
Much has happened in the last week via politics, alliances, corperations, etc. The result of all of it was one thing. Total disrespect and lack of consideration from pretty much everyone. Whomever you think is at fault, you cannot deny this. Just look at all the threads (and this one very soon no doubt) and see it in most every post.
Any self respecting corperation / alliance / or player would take offense to suddenly be threatened and war dec'ed by someone they havn't seen in months. Especially when their loyalties to their current leadership were strengthening, and the alliance as a whole was crawling back from the depths of dispair. You can say we fight for loyalty...but that would be bull****. Just look at how loyal 1/2 of SE was to cujo as it switched sides. But this wasn't all of it. Being treated as insignificant non-conformists that would "get ours" was so demeaning I wanted to throw up.
Make no mistake: SE / SA has been in constant diplomatic meetings trying to work things out. I now fight for one simple reason: I don't like getting walked on, and I don't take this kind of crap from anyone. I fight because, frankly, you treat me, my corp, and my alliance like crap and it ****es me off. Simple as that. I'm sure I'm not the only one in SE that feels this way. In fact, I'd bet that most all of them do.
Anyway, Talking about all this is like arguing over religion. You will never change the other sides point of view. not really sure why I made this post in the first place. Guess I'm just tired of hearing all the conspiracy theories.
-Sovereign
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Khaerie
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Posted - 2005.09.11 05:30:00 -
[2]
Signed as myself and not as a diplomat
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Sickbitch
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Posted - 2005.09.11 05:47:00 -
[3]
thats industrial corps for you. dangle a carrot infront of their noses and they will follow you.
thats a good fundation for sa to start on.
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Dyryana
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Posted - 2005.09.11 06:20:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Dyryana on 11/09/2005 06:23:37
Everyone, please send me 1mil isk for this stain removal kit, and i will rid the forums of these lame SA/SE threads!
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Vanamonde
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Posted - 2005.09.11 06:37:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Dyryana
I mean, get over it... who cares about your war between each other, for not respecting each others "e-peen's" .. and how big they are
They do. Thats why we have forums where they can discuss, the matter at hand. If you do not care about the politics of the current thread and only post to troll, then please instead just click the back button of your browser and look for a thread that does interest you.
Thanks. 
EVE Forums Rule!! |
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dalman
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:17:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sovereign1100
The reason there is civil war is simple: Disrespect.
Originally by: Khaerie
Signed as myself and not as a diplomat
Shooting yourself in the foot Khaerie?
Haven't you made 5235447543357 post prior to this one saying "it's NOT a civil war and therefor the Catch thing is legal", and now you suddenly say yourself that it IS a civil war? 
GG
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Khaerie
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: dalman
Originally by: Sovereign1100
The reason there is civil war is simple: Disrespect.
Originally by: Khaerie
Signed as myself and not as a diplomat
Shooting yourself in the foot Khaerie?
Haven't you made 5235447543357 post prior to this one saying "it's NOT a civil war and therefor the Catch thing is legal", and now you suddenly say yourself that it IS a civil war?
GG
Well Dalan, just for you I'll take out the word CIVIL from the whole statement and re-agree with it. I certainly wouldn't want to take away your petty point. Here, have another petty point just because I'm generous.
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Azeusus
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:34:00 -
[8]
both factions are seperate entities so how can this be civil war if there isnt a single entity to internally fight.
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dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:49:00 -
[9]
a war which consintutes 2 group of stain corps fighting over stain territory, a war began over a dispute over leadership of se..that is what makes it a civil war as a good portion of sa are former stain Empire corps (illd say a good 90% of stain alliance are former stain empire)
_____
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Khaerie
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:51:00 -
[10]
Fellows, please, stick to the subject of this thread. It's about respect, please try some of it.
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Kayvaan Shrike
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:56:00 -
[11]
Oh dear god... Why oh why does SA continue down this road? Have you been ordered to flame any thread not sharing your POV? Just 10 cents from a SE'er who's tired of reading threads on the forums that always turns into a flamefest. (And don't say; don't read the forums, as I am as entitled to read forums just as much as anyone else!)
Oh and btw; Signed
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dalman
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Khaerie
Fellows, please, stick to the subject of this thread. It's about respect, please try some of it.
RESPECT???
What respect has Species shown?
You have come up with some increadable statement that this isn't a civil war and "given" Catch region to FIX, for the simple reason to save the Dreadnaught that Species had in production in the factory station there.
You used FIX space to ship out most of your assets in Catch through a "safe" passage.
Species and ADGA have cleaned out all assets in the SEL holding corp, totalling some billions, which were common assets to all corps in SE.
Species, ADGA and FOFF told us to bring it. Yet the only SE corps who have done any fighting is Xenobytes and IGS.
Basicly, Xenobytes are fighting for you while you run as fast as you can and grab as much as you can.
And you're talking about respect? Save me from it please.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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Gradinger
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:09:00 -
[13]
dalman.. dalman... it¦d be a long read if i explain my POV but only so much - i got the impression for some reason u hate us :/
and there are NO RULES - u showed us..
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ghtretreye
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:10:00 -
[14]
I just dont understand how most of corps in SA can trust and respect eachother after this all? What reason to join an alliance at all if you leave it as soon as it get in trouble? Because 90% of corps who left SE left it just because they were scared. Why they will not leave SA if hard times comes?
Heh, Trigger had all chances to become emperor of big and powerful stain empire, almost everyone in SE was happy that MASS are back.. But with all his disrespect, threats and demands he just turned it into chaos of total annihilation. Yes, he scared some corps and they have joined him, but couple of strong corps are now his enemies while they would be his allies if he had some respect to other peoples. Even if he win, he will get only ruines of stain empire.
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dalman
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:32:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gradinger
dalman.. dalman... it¦d be a long read if i explain my POV but only so much - i got the impression for some reason u hate us :/
and there are NO RULES - u showed us..
I don't hate anyone playing this game.
No rules? Your corp has rules that you can't post the truth on the forums, or what?
I think this quote from Shivan[species] on the SE forums(public chat) sum it all up:
Quote:
TBH, we dont give a (Censored) about Stain anymore after how we have been treated by Stain, why should we?
We have nothing left here, so why should we care whats best for Stain?
That's how they've been handling this since it started.
Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin.
Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
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maria stallion
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:41:00 -
[16]
I personnaly think mass has no right to decide who has respect and who hasn't.
I can remember a couple of months ago that they started shooting Foundation in massive force while we had a nap.
we let them pass in b-vip, but instat of a thank you they started shooting us :P
this is just a thing that shows mass can't be trusted in my eyes.
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Gradinger
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:53:00 -
[17]
dalman.. u r a liar and just trolling.
about shivan.. noone of us will think bad about him - he¦s just as disappointed as we all are.
one more thing: respect to trigg&bold for playing a game.. maybe a harsh way but quite effective ;) .. now i doubt a single one of u would have the decency to give us the respect we deserve :/
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Orc A
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:21:00 -
[18]
I respect alot of SE folks.
XB, IGS, some individuals from species, etc.
I respect Sha-k, who faught till the very end.
I respect many people from SE, as do many other people in SA.
However, when i try to show it to them, they spit in my face and call me "traitor".
But i still respect them.
-Orky |
Boktor
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:27:00 -
[19]
BTW, everyone talks about Trigger this emperor that... Who the heck is Trigger?!, i've never seen him, is he actually out there or just a SA imagination?
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Nache1
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:58:00 -
[20]
I do have respect for a few corps I have been fighting ...
XB = they fight well and not one bit of smack in local.
Sha Kharn = think I have the most respect for these guys , fought them for days on end and they never stoped coming till they ran out of ships against our forces ( and not much smack while doing so )
Now there have been others that I have fought in Stain space that have done nothing but sit in station or at a ss and run there mouth non stop . How can you know we are just "Cannon Fodder" or "Mass slaves" if you dont shut up and come find out first hand ?
If you give our forces a good clean fight and no smack in local then you might get more respect .
The forces I fly with have the upmost respect while we fight , sure now and then one of our guys slips and says something he/she shouldnt , and gets chewed for doing so .
For those SE members I havent fought yet you do have my respect , Its up to you how much respect I give you by your actions before/during/and after the fights .
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Mindlles
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:05:00 -
[21]
lol 90% of stain alliance is old stainers?
I might be wrong here, but i seen alot of new faces... and also easy kills =)
_________________
* Stizzum orwhatever still owes me 15milj from bragging in local and lost a bet, 5monts or someting have gone since then. And counting * |
dirtydave
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nache1
How can you know we are just "Cannon Fodder" or "Mass slaves" if you dont shut up and come find out first hand ?
This is the exact description of you given by Mass insiders 
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thebold
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Mindlles
lol 90% of stain alliance is old stainers?
I might be wrong here, but i seen alot of new faces... and also easy kills =)
GIVE ME MORE DRAMA
HAHA bring back the old drama days :D
==============================================
We do the Blowing up thingy |
FileCop AI
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:09:00 -
[24]
There is no war. It's only a fragment of your imagination.
SA came, saw, conquered. The End.
FileCop AI of MASS
Co-CEO |
Dalilah
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Orc A
However, when i try to show it to them, they spit in my face and call me "traitor".
Emotions and feelings are indivisible part of human's nature. So you must understand our guys in that point of view. TBH we still respect some of SA corporations (include your corp Orc) but disrespect and will kill such guys as ZiTek always.
The Xenobytes will give you experience beyond limits - pain and pleasure indivisible |
Dezzyb0y
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:57:00 -
[26]
You guys seem to think that Mass + others have been in stain all the time, this isnt the case, they left, they've come back, so what if they want stain back? After some Of SE's campaigns recently i wouldnt want to be associated with that. This is just a way of preventing Stains inevitable demise.
Mass are entitled to use the name Stain alliance as they did found the original Stain alliance, and Stain Empire was a decision made by multiple corps that joined further down the line. Good luck to Mass tbh, maybe the ideals they've reformed in recent months will continue and bring back the millatry power that stain alliance once had.
-----------------------
![]()
K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 dama |
Kozak
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Posted - 2005.09.11 13:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dezzyb0y
You guys seem to think that Mass + others have been in stain all the time, this isnt the case, they left, they've come back, so what if they want stain back? After some Of SE's campaigns recently i wouldnt want to be associated with that. This is just a way of preventing Stains inevitable demise.
Mass are entitled to use the name Stain alliance as they did found the original Stain alliance, and Stain Empire was a decision made by multiple corps that joined further down the line. Good luck to Mass tbh, maybe the ideals they've reformed in recent months will continue and bring back the millatry power that stain alliance once had.
Actually, it was Trigger who chose the name Stain Empire.
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Tri33er
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Posted - 2005.09.11 13:49:00 -
[28]
Satin Allaince have won, we'll played to them, shame SE had the last laugh & gave Catch to FIX :) was funny as hell watching MASS being told to get their puppet corps pos down & being told to leave FIX space rofl, bet you never see that one coming thebold :)
But knowing MASS & you i think SA will look at every possibility to retake Catch, hope you have better luck getting your new found members to travel more than 20 jumps to fight or maybe they will be to busy with a mining op.
Well played SE but your time is over, regroup & go have fun shooting stuff wherever you fancy & if an alliance wants to call for fighters to defend Catch then look no further than the loyal few that stayed to the end.
The wars over, now the fun starts.
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forumposting alt
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Posted - 2005.09.11 15:47:00 -
[29]
Originally by: FileCop AI
SA came, saw, conquered. The End.
No. 5 came, saw and conquered and did all this without firing a shot by scaring all the carebear corps into jumping ships.
Enjoy "your" victory.
Trying doing something like that again on your own two feet next time and you might get more satisfaction from it.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2005.09.11 16:35:00 -
[30]
That means, take it easy. It's not serious. This Originally by: Sovereign1100
I don't let people disrespect me in real life and I sure won't let them do it in a game.
clearly shows that you should approach games another way.
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Ysabelle nKataros
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Posted - 2005.09.11 19:37:00 -
[31]
I think the most important thing that can be drawn from this is the lesson that those you trust and believe to be your friends are the best placed to stab you in the back; also that MASS and co. do not have the honour to hold themselves to their word. Anyone who trusts them is a fool, anyone who joins them is my enemy.
--------
MAcheTT3 > Hehe, ok... How much would you take them off for? |
s4mp3r0r
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Posted - 2005.09.11 21:00:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Dalilah
TBH we still respect some of SA corporations (include your corp Orc) but disrespect and will kill such guys as ZiTek always.
Uhm, not sure why we deserve this. ZiTek is gradually building a name for itself in the PvP sense, we were one of the SE corpses with the lowest kill count at the start and we're in the middle part of SE total kills when we left. We have always helped out esoteria patrols as much as possible and fought of invaders int the area. By no means are we PvP giants. But we are also not complete carebears. Most of the stuff on sale in BZ atm was produced by ZiTek and we can be proud of that.
If you have a grudge against us please convo me, as im curious why we deserved this disrespectfull attitude.
Proud ex-CEO of the official Verone Fanclub.
Convo Mirel yirrin ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ Verone Ö" Bumpersticker!! |
Dalilah
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Posted - 2005.09.11 21:36:00 -
[33]
Originally by: s4mp3r0r
Uhm, not sure why we deserve this. ZiTek is gradually building a name for itself in the PvP sense, we were one of the SE corpses with the lowest kill count at the start and we're in the middle part of SE total kills when we left. We have always helped out esoteria patrols as much as possible and fought of invaders int the area. By no means are we PvP giants. But we are also not complete carebears. Most of the stuff on sale in BZ atm was produced by ZiTek and we can be proud of that.
I not mean poor PvP skills, I mean that episode when you guys left SE silently and 5 minutes after that were joined in Oberon gang for retaking BZ. Your post at SE board was too late for SHA-K and they lost all their assets and ships in BZ.
When somebody start to talk about backstabbing it's a bull**** in comparison with your move in BZ.
ktnxbb, fly safe in empire tomorrow 
The Xenobytes will give you experience beyond limits - pain and pleasure indivisible |
s4mp3r0r
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Posted - 2005.09.11 22:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dalilah
I not mean poor PvP skills, I mean that episode when you guys left SE silently and 5 minutes after that were joined in Oberon gang for retaking BZ. Your post at SE board was too late for SHA-K and they lost all their assets and ships in BZ.
When somebody start to talk about backstabbing it's a bull**** in comparison with your move in BZ.
ktnxbb, fly safe in empire tomorrow
Kool, you believe what u do, i believe we did everything possible to stay honourable, as we always have.
Have a nice day. Hope we can fight each other :)
Proud ex-CEO of the official Verone Fanclub.
Convo Mirel yirrin ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ Verone Ö" Bumpersticker!! |
Icebox
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Posted - 2005.09.11 23:37:00 -
[35]
The actual sequence of events, was ...
I posted our intention to withdraw.
I removed us from SE a short time later.
Members were told to stand down and NOT fire on anything or anyone until such time as notice had been taken by SE that we had left.
Sha Karn posted we were now KOS.
Since Sha Karn were in BZ with us, it became necessary at that point that we take an active role in pvp again.
We waited until SE took the next step. That step was to put us KOS. We then responded to that. I'm sorry if you feel this was wrong. Perhaps Sha Karn should not have put us KOS so quickly. |
benwallace
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Posted - 2005.09.11 23:57:00 -
[36]
being ex-zitek I know they are a veyr hournable (sp?) corp and will give eveyrone a fare chance and will not degrade themselfs with greed
---------------------------------------------------
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Creamster
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Posted - 2005.09.12 00:15:00 -
[37]
I personally don't blame those who left SE. I'm sure everybody had their heavy reasons and acted for the good of their corporations. Before judging them and putting lebels one should ask what SE had to offer to those people under the circumstances. How can you demand loyalty if you're not offering anything in exchange?
Yes, lots of people are upset but alliances are made to make life in 0.O easier and when you're not happy with yours it's time to move on. /shrug
And another thing, Sovereign mentioned 'disrespect'. I went real angry after reading Trigger's 7 days move out note, but perhaps it was the right way to talk to SE. You can't just ask for respect you have to earn it first.
XB killboard |
Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2005.09.12 01:43:00 -
[38]
Quote:
You can say we fight for loyalty...but that would be bull****. Just look at how loyal 1/2 of SE was to cujo as it switched sides.
I understand your argument, and that is why even now our corp has orders to not flame, insult, or treat any person from SE with disrespect. Our loyalty as a corp was determined by our CEO, and since he, and a bunch of our members ahve been in stain in one corp or another for 2 years or so it was pretty much decided.
As a player my Loyalty is to my corp and the people I protect and fly with. Thta takes me where it takes me, and I only deviate from that if it flies in the face of what I consider fair play. Sorry you have felt disrespect, I for one am doing my part to keep this as civilized/honorable as possible.
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Shifu
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Posted - 2005.09.12 07:59:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Icebox
The actual sequence of events, was ...
I posted our intention to withdraw.
I removed us from SE a short time later.
Members were told to stand down and NOT fire on anything or anyone until such time as notice had been taken by SE that we had left.
Sha Kharn posted we were now KOS.
Since Sha Kharn were in BZ with us, it became necessary at that point that we take an active role in pvp again.
We waited until SE took the next step. That step was to put us KOS. We then responded to that. I'm sorry if you feel this was wrong. Perhaps Sha Kharn should not have put us KOS so quickly.
You was neutral for us when you taken BZ, the same with OI. Effective move and as result now we should shooting Sha Kharn guys too  you made it personal
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s4mp3r0r
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Posted - 2005.09.12 08:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Shifu
You was neutral for us when you taken BZ, the same with OI. Effective move and as result now we should shooting Sha Kharn guys too you made it personal
Seems to me a problem with the speed of setting us to negative stance, we did everything we should and could do to keep everything clear (especially standings) for all parties.
Proud ex-CEO of the official Verone Fanclub.
Convo Mirel yirrin ingame for details on how to join, and a free " I ♥ Verone Ö" Bumpersticker!! |
Arud
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Posted - 2005.09.12 09:31:00 -
[41]
remember, respect goes both ways
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Xarvos
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Posted - 2005.09.12 14:40:00 -
[42]
Zi'tek are cool bunch of guys afterall it's my first player runned corp in my long eve career 
---------------------------------------------
Let's have some fun shall we ?
ex-mass member
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TheOnyx
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:00:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Arud
remember, respect goes both ways
Amen...
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Kozak
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:07:00 -
[44]
I really don't want to get in on this, but had to post one last time. If respect goes both ways, then you should not be surprised by how SE reacted. This whole mess is because of the lack of respect from Trigger and thebold. We only give respect when it is given back.
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Pathfinda75
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:16:00 -
[45]
GL to everyone formally know as Stain Empire.
GL to SA and all your future endevors.
In the end its just a game so lets see what happens and have fun with it. :)
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:19:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kozak
I really don't want to get in on this, but had to post one last time. If respect goes both ways, then you should not be surprised by how SE reacted. This whole mess is because of the lack of respect from Trigger and thebold. We only give respect when it is given back.
then you should not be surprised how SA reacted, expecialy after the issue with the former stain corps and expecialy after mass being informed that the offer was only a puppet position
as I said, respect goes both ways, I hope that in combat we can both earn our respect back, for both our sakes
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Kozak
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:34:00 -
[47]
If any respect is earned, it will be maybe from a few members, but as a whole, MASS will never earn our respect if the current leadership persists and the corp follows it. But I don't expect to see them on the battlefield, so, whatever. In this game, hate is fun.
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.09.12 15:37:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kozak
If any respect is earned, it will be maybe from a few members, but as a whole, MASS will never earn our respect if the current leadership persists and the corp follows it. But I don't expect to see them on the battlefield, so, whatever. In this game, hate is fun.
Then that is your choice to make, hate is a choice. Live by it if that makes the game fun.
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Kozak
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Posted - 2005.09.12 16:04:00 -
[49]
I really just want to know, breaking off conversation after the first offer was accepted and then threatening us they way you did, was it all worth it?
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.09.12 16:24:00 -
[50]
I'm not 100% sure about what exactly whent on, only Cujo and Trigger know that and I can say it could have been handled better. But what we did was better than the alternative in my opinion.
Now I ask you, was holding on to the executior status so hard worth it?
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Kozak
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Posted - 2005.09.12 16:47:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Arud
I'm not 100% sure about what exactly whent on, only Cujo and Trigger know that and I can say it could have been handled better. But what we did was better than the alternative in my opinion.
Now I ask you, was holding on to the executior status so hard worth it?
I know everything that happened. Cujo told us everything showed us all the eve mails and asked us for our opinions on every matter. Everything we did, we did as a corp. And when Trigger accepted the offer for emperor and us as executorship, we though that was it. He never came back and asked for executorship. He never asked to talk again. He didn't tell us anything accept the email that was sent to us informing us that we had 7 days to leave Stain.
I hope that you guys all knew that this is the way it went down and that you are all fine with those decisions, because we as a corp voted on every matter in this conflict, knowing full well what has been going on. Although we would have preffered ot be in Stain, as you can see from how things progressed, it was never offered to us.
It was leave or be killed.
You may not want to believe any of what I have typed, but if it's true, do you think it was worth it for your corp and your alliance?
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Arud
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Posted - 2005.09.13 14:51:00 -
[52]
Kozak,
Sorry, wrote a long reply yesterday but then the power went off. But here goes again.
You have your story from Cujo and I have mine from Trigger. We both have our halves of the story, neither of us have the full story.
After Cujo offered Trigger the name of emperor only but no power he came to the mass forum. Hope I am not stepping over some boundry here by explaining what went on, in very simple words.
Rardless what people might think Trigger does not run Mass as a dictator, when major decisions come he lets the corp decide what direction we should head in.
He came to us, informed us of what you offered we all felt even more betrayed and disrespected than when cujo went on his fit against the former stain corps a week or two earlier. So the decision was made since species was not ready to give up the executorship we would form SA and give Stainers 7 days to join up. Coming back on the terms we originaly left ona long with Species and all the other corps, you knew this, they all knew this. After these 7 days were up the regions any non alliance corps living there would be consider hostile just like in all alliance controled space everywhere except when special deals are made.
This whole thing has not been handled nearly perfect by any party involved but do not try to act all innocent like you were the only ones who were disrespected.
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Kozak
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Posted - 2005.09.13 15:44:00 -
[53]
Here's the problem with how you describe it...
To us, Trigger said he accepted. If you guys wanted executorship, you didn't ask for it. It was mentioned to Cujo and he said that Species should stay as executorship for a shot while as the power is being transfered and the corps have a chance to voice their opinion.
If that's something you guys didn't want, and you wanted it from the start, you should have talked to us. You DID NOT, you gave us an ultimatum. How do you react to "OR ELSE" requests? - Give me your money OR ELSE.
I think it was strictly the actions of your corp that started this conflict. Cujo has told us he does not want to be emperor. He only wans what is best for the corp. An the aggression towards the other ex Stain corps were resolved atleast a week or 2 before Trigger approached Cujo. I don't see how that has anything to do with this.
Bottom line, you would have gotten Stain if you asked. You didn't ask, you demanded and now you have Stain in it's current state.
There were some members early on saying that this is good for Stain, and Trigger said he wanted to trim the "Fat". I would like to know if he meant us or the inactive corps that were in SE. The reason I would like to know is that most of them are now in SA.
BTW, thanks for keeping it civil. Nice to have a normal exchange on the forums.
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