Your opinion. Are others not allowed theirs?

Why isn't their personal choice valid?

The original quote was

If I like cherry pie and you like apple... and we both get a choice... then all is good.

If you like to PvP and I like to mine... and we both get our choice... than all is good.

If I like apple, but get stuck with cheery... that isn't good.

And what about new players being put through a PVP experience and leave because of it?

New people will die rather quick in Lowsec. Not even an opinion...

Shouldn't you try not to contradict your self so quickly?

Go tell a new player to run Incursions when they are one month old.

Best way to learn a game -- and why high-sec exists -- is to do it step-by-step. Learning how to fly. Learning the UI. Learning the lingo to even communicate.

0.0 is advanced gameplay. No way how it's sliced, it's where the vets play.

Each player is their own. Each will learn on a time scale to themself. Each will see the process differently.

Who made you God to decide?

Who made you so omnipotent to get into all the brains of every human and say, "this is how it's done"?

If they want to be a "carebear", it's none of your business. You're not paying for their subscription.

You can control how you play, not others.

People aren't bots.

Are you going to ban yourself?

Do you bother to read what you write? In one breath you want people banned for talking about needing skill to do something... in the next you talk about a skill plan need to do Incursions.

Some people think PvP is boring. It's just like a mindless FPS shooter - you gain nothing except frustration. It's ******* sad that people actually complain about "carebears" when they are paying customers just like you, and can do whatever the hell they want. If they want to quit? Ok. PvP? Good. Missions, mining, etc.? Right-o

When some individual tell the lie that if is all safe and full of flowers

I did an Incursion at two months in a Drake... they let me in out of charity. It was fun, but I was not effective.

Soloing in lowsec for a two week old is death.

It's a tradition in gaming to let gamers play as they want. It's a very Libertarian concept so cherished.

If they want to play PvE, their choice. If they want to PvP, their choice.

It isn't for YOU to decide.

What makes you think you know what 1000's of different individuals want?

Are you going to honestly argue that between a two year old and a two week old... the two week old has the advantage?

You have done it consistently through this threat. Saying new players don't know what they want.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

So you know what all of the new players want.

Did I mention anything about what new players will be doing?

And if you're into babying players to do this or that now...who is the carebear now?

They will make mistakes. But to learn you have too make mistakes.

Learning 101.

Did you write this?

And that's not telling to be ABC

And you aren't helping them by holding their hand, wiping their rear, and telling them what's a "good boy" is in EvE...by dictating your idea of what is proper to YOU.

You claim to know that new players didn't know what they want.

Can't go around acting tough and then all of the sudden soooooooo concerned about babying the gamer "because he doesn't know what he's doing".

The gamer has to learn on his own, not having a mouthbreather yelling "RED X IS ALL THAT MATTERS...SCRUB!!!"

Irrelevant because that is not the situation.

Most players are not blindly buying a product. The make a choice base on what the know or believe. The enter the game with a conception of what they would like or might be fun. Whether the product delivers is a separate issue.

Not only are they not playing the game the way you want, but you seem to believe that the are too stupid and gullible to figure thing out on their own.

How can any player, with all of the resource available, not be able to do this?

If you wish to argue that Eve may delivers a different experience than the one the bought the game for, that is a different matter.

Most players have wants when they buy Eve, how the product delivers is the issue. I don't doubt that many who would like to be into small PvP get caught up in the wrong Corp and eventually quit... other will choose to move on. This isn't a case of new players not knowing what they want, but getting those players into the right area of the game.

When did "a newbie doesn't know what he wants" turn into informed choices?

Then please explain your view why thousand of players are so... so what?

Carebears are scaring off new players?



After being in this game for almost 5 years, I thought I had heard it all but this is definitely a new one.

It's sooo funny isn't it? When it suits their argument newbies are precious darlings like chicks just out of the egg.

What will these people say when that newb comes on the forum? "Eve is a harsh world!", "ignorance is no excuse", "Eve is not for everyone", "you should have known high sec is not safe outside of newb systems", "a scam on every stargate" etc. etc.

Only when it's a carebear corp driving players away does lying to newbs become a problem for them

Let me see if I can summarize the OP.

If we get rid of high sec

I find the argument to be utterly ridiculous on so many fronts, it is hard to count.

Classic case of asserting as truth, that which you want to be true.

So the corp bans the new members from using the forums, going on the official wiki, going on other eve wikis, using the rookie channel, using the help channel, using google, doing the tutorial, doing the career missions, and ever leaving the corp.

any amateur (and Eve Online players are mostly amateur arent' they?) person should look around.

What exactly is it that you are contending as "wrong"?

And I am curious as to why you are calling for CCP to ban these players, considering they may be speaking from their own experiences in other areas of the game.

Would you have the same zealous and over-protective attitude towards a new player complaining he was lied to joining goonswarm and scammed or lured into a gatecamp? What if it was a ganker telling a new player that lo sec is actually safe? Would you demand these players be banned as well?

You are seeing a glimpse of a much deeper argument that has raged between those that think EVE should only be about the hostile exchange of ammo in space and those that think there is room for many play styles in EVE.

It's still only giving opinions, you can't ban them for that.

- Misunderstanding aggression flagging isn't something that only hi sec carebear corps do. And this also does not constitute grief play.
- Your opinions on lo and null sec are highly subjective. If a corp member speaks of lo/null sec in a negative light because of the experience he's faced there himself that is something that he is entitled to, even if yfou don't like it and regard it as "grief".
- What exactly is it they are being told they can and cannot do? Are these corp policies (ie only mine and mission)? If that is the case, you are welcome to leave. If they are forcing you to stay, then feel free to file a petition. If a carebear joins a pirate corp and is "forced" to PVP miners, will you feel the same level of compassion as a player being "forced" to mine and mission in a different corp? I didn't think so.
Otherwise, I'm curious as to what is it they are being told (i.e., "you can absolutely not enter lo sec as it is game-mechanically impossible").
- You don't get to dictate what decisions players make in a game where a player's decisions are entrusted to the player. You are certainly welcome to form your own ideas and decisions and even share them with other players. But the decision is ultimately the individual's to call. Again, corp members are certainly welcome to persuade you. There's nothing "bannable" about this.

Really? Do you have anything to back this claim up?

I'll agree that the intent may be different. But the outcome is still the same. Either both are "ban-worthy offences" or none.

I'm not confusing them, these aren't two different issues. They aren't mutually exclusive. Those opinions can come out of ignorance.

Ah now you've moved the goal posts again.

You were comparing a group (ignoramus) with a tactic (no X until Y), and telling me, not to confuse a group with a tactic.

You CANNOT deduce whether someone saying no X until Y is either ignorant or a griefer, and it would be impossible to ban them.

Well, it seems you are attempting to dictate what corp members should and should not say to other corp members. You've gone as far as advocating for a ban because you consider their teachings "grief play".

I asked if you can back this claim up, as in these corps are spreading misinformation due to "elitism" or because they've heard this elsewhere. I even gave you an example of a corp member advising another corp member on the dangers of lo sec because of his own experiences there (you listed "anything to do with lo sec"). Which of your two "factual" statements does this fall under? Instead, you've directed me to a newbie skill plan as proof of the above.

I didn't say the pirate was bluffing. You did. In my example above I explicitly said both are lying (as in neither is telling the truth).