Hey guys

I'm not ignoring anything, I promise. I think many of the last few posts are kind of extreme, but I also agree that the Tempest potentially falls short considering the rest of the changes in this pass. For now, I don't want to make a change. I'd rather wait a little longer (hopefully for sisi testing) to get the best overall sense possible, then make some adjustments. Part of the reason for not committing to something now is that it may be that other ships (like the Hyperion) need adjustments as well (if its too strong) and so I want to wait until we feel we've got the best sense possible for the entire class before we make final changes.

We'll keep looking at the Tempest though, and if it does end up feeling too weak, we'll make a change.

It seems you have many different camps on the Tempest due to the fact that it is at the moment a swiss army knife of battleships. It can be used either shield, armour, artillery and autocannons effectively. To top it all off it has two high utility slots which can be used to increase DPS or fit with other high slot modules. It is just like the hurricane really in this respect and that is what I love about it and I make use of all the different options reguarly.

But you have camps of people who use it either exclusively in one way or the other and so naturally they would prefer to see the way that they use the ship buffed. Essentially it will then become pigeon holed into the role in which it is buffed and will lose all its other uses and essentially lose its essence.

If you buff its shield ability then armour users will inevitable lose out and vice versa. If you buff short range autos then long range artillery users will lose out and vice versa. If you buff its overall EHP then signature and agility will suffer and vice versa.

I think the one thing everyone can agree on though is to increase its damage output as this will complement every play style for the ship equally and no one would argue. This could be done via the ship bonuses and so I think perhaps this is the way to go if any further changes are necessary.

Oh please enough with torpedos having less range than blasters its bull.... javelin torps ... also rigs to boost range if 25km odd range isn't enough. also null at the end of its falloff is doing pitiful damage.

LOL..... You want the bhaal, a blood raider ship, to lose its nuet bonuses and be turned into a rapier....? o_o

Please biomass yourself right now.

Lol. Ok good to hear you aren't totally crazy then. And anyway, that kind of backs up my point. You sound like the kind of leet Pvper who uses his BS's in massive logi and capital backed fleets. There are other things in Eve other than mindless gigantic fleet battles. I fight in small gang pvp in null sec, WH space, and low sec, and so I'm looking at this from this angle.

Tempest is looking very good to me, some extra agility and speed would be all it needs now in my view. Perhaps a falloff bonus and combine the damage bonus also to top it off. But no change to slot layout.

Ok keep digging your heads into the sand. You can easily go onto their sites and see the weapon rigs are pretty fundamental to the ship fittings. Also cost is a very important factor, a full set of weapon rigs cost a fraction of the price of 3 trimarks. But that isn't the only reason, I can name many more situations where weapon rigs are much better than endurance rigs. But to go to great length I feel I would be wasting my time as it is futile to discuss when opinions are so blinkered. But anyway, don't take my word for it, you can go onto their websites how prevelant weapon rigs are for yourselves if you wish.

your ideea on maelstrom is so ******** it amazes me ..we curently turned this topic into a "ccp boost ******* tempest" if they would do maelstrom like u sugest then we would open a boost maelstrom topic or "keep it same bonuses" problem with minmatar starts at guns autocannons have a very low dmg modifier and a high rof if they would lower the rof and boost the dmg from the 800/650/425 autos the 5%rof +5 % dmg bonus to tempest would be more then ok but ccp needs to redoo the layout slots on the tempest ..cuz i agree with u ..hyperion rocks ..geddon ...has cpu issues with a torpedo fit like u sugested but works as for tempest it cant be armor buffed cuz u dont have neither big hp neither high resist neither good dps ..a hurricane doese better ...as for shield ..well everything that goese same as your speed or faster warp scram's u and u'r buff dies as i said ...but ccp should do what they intended in the first place as in to make the tempest a shield bs ..thats why vargur is shield tanked and tribal pest has a slot layout familiar to be better with a shield tank also ...so they would just need to replace the maelstrom bonuses with tempest like they did (mega / hyp ) and on the maelstrom focuse that ship on either armor + max dmg or shield + max dmg (like hyp / abaddon / )

It is actually more like this:

Amarr: No issues, Abaddon needs less cap for guns a bit more to rep, Apoc loses effectively 5% damage or 5% optimal for L4(while gaining 7.5% more tracking), all high end hulls get considerably buffed(I can finally get rid of that single cap recharger on my tach paladin with the cap and pg reduction on beams).
Gallente: 1142 DPS @ 51+58km rail/sentry hype with a usable tank looks very good compared to the old mega/domi and navy domi is still a kick ass rail/sentry platform.
Caldari: Raven gets the biggest buff since the torp buff 5 years ago(that was also a 33% dps buff). 1k DPS CM raven is damn competitive to any high skilled L4 bs(free damage type selection, can kill frigs at any range, no dps loss to falloff, no tracking issues). It is basically like creating a BS around the old tangu stats. However this is not a bad thing if you look at pvp, since the considerable faster raven with more med range dps and another mid for a painter actually looks quite good.

The problem with the Tempest is that a Mega/Hype will be not much slower while they still out damage the Tempest everywhere in standard 24km point range(with the better tank on top of that), the phoon and raven will be considerable better at medium range, it lacks the slot layout to be a ok armor artillery platform and it even loses range with the TE nerf. This can't be resolved with the fitting, It actually needs touching the base concept and deciding what a tempest should actually accomplish for pvp in a way, where you wouldn't be better off with another hull. The only thing I and many others want is that the tempest becomes a fair option, be it as a med range shield BS or armor platform instead being something in-between both roles, without being able to properly fill any of them.

You could try to organize your toughts before posting.

My maelstrom idea is nto a boost to it. In fact it becomes a bit weaker on most uses not its main role. Its a FOCALIZATIOn. The things that minamtar is lacking. It coudl require some adjutments to reduce arti alpha a bit. But that woudl be good because tornado is currently too powerful of an alpha ship.

It sovles several problems, keep ships in specific roles, REAL roles, not imaginary ones, with bonuses taht match their usage.

Did I just get this right. A TEST-Lemming complains about how CCP has no idea how this game works and that ISK making in null is not easy, because Officer Spawns are too rare.

I don't have enough hands to facepalm appropriately.

Very true, I do not understand why they ask for feedback when they wont respond or listen even when people give it.

Would be just easier for them to say, these are the changes, we dont care what you think and deal with it.

Though I believe they ask the way they do to try and keep from a total blow up.

CCP Rise definitely does listen to feedback.

You are just crying because you didn't get all the toys you wanted.