Merlin Maulus and Griffin should cost 3 points
Haulers should cost 1 point

Single elimination best of 3 is a really fantastic design, if logistically horrifying to compete in. I think you can alleviate some of the burden and increase the overall quality by alternating matches. So on the final day when there was PL vs GHSC and Insurance Fraud vs Reputation Cartel to format could be PL vs GHSC game 1, then IF vs RC game 1, then PL vs GHSC game 2, IF vs RC game 2, etc etc.

I could see us making ewar frigs 3 points.

haulers lack the mobility and damage of a frig and are basically cheap utility slots

for 1 point they would be a strategic filler and viable choice, for 3 points they make no sense at all
also 1 point noob ships maybe?

1 point noobships with the new pirate ships would be way out of control.

The Taipan can get 4k EHP and 110 dps.
The Immolator can do 80 dps at 16km with Scorch and 2.7km/s with very comfortable cap.

I've not tinkered with the other ones, but if we allow them we'd have to look at them very hard.

Thoughts on the following:

Pirate BS -- 20
Marauders -- 19 (18?)
Faction BS -- 18 (17?)
T1 BS and Black Ops -- 16

I'm kicking that around. Maybe Black Ops at 17? I think it makes sense to break the BS hulls out into 4/5 tiers anyway, regardless of the exact point values. I'd need to sit down with our entire roster of tweaks to see what it does to various popular comps, but yeah.

Thoughts on the following:

Pirate BS -- 20
Marauders -- 19
Faction BS -- 18
T1 BS and Black Ops -- 16

wondering how does it fair in the meta a 2 point frig sitting at 90km bringing your logi to 11km lock range .

Thoughts on the following:

Pirate BS -- 20
Marauders -- 19 (18?)
Faction BS -- 18 (17?)
T1 BS and Black Ops -- 16

I'm kicking that around. Maybe Black Ops at 17? I think it makes sense to break the BS hulls out into 4/5 tiers anyway, regardless of the exact point values. I'd need to sit down with our entire roster of tweaks to see what it does to various popular comps, but yeah.

I just felt like splitting hairs.

Only issue I see with this, is that when the new BS changes go live on the test server we will obviously have to allow their use in the tournament, and the changes make some of the tech1 BS very viable tournament ships imo.

Not as good as Pirate, but quite possibly as powerful as a navy faction.

wondering how does it fair in the meta a 2 point frig sitting at 90km bringing your logi to 11km lock range .
how is that more skill intensive then managing cap chains and or neuts and or ecm and or 15 active modules with 11 reps that need to be keybind and or having ability to heat them in short ammount of time while keeping your t1 hulls alive.

there will always be rock papper scissors unless there are mirror games of rush teams.

Yes because kiting in a 3k a second tech 1 ship in a limited arena with support chasing you, drones aggroing you and pretty much no tank while having to coordinate with 2 other ewar frigs + your own frig support + your dps and logi is clearly easier than orbiting a target at 500 and putting reps on the enemy primary or spreading jams on the 8 enemy ships.

You PL guys are fantastic at the meta game and we got totally outcomped in the final match but please don't sit there and try to claim that your vexor circlejerk is more pilot intensive than our comp as that's a pile of bullshit.

tbh we kindda ownd you guys realy badly ..no need to feel bad thou ..maybe next time try something more complex?brawl setups are for tq lowsec as far as i recall as most new players start at 0 range activating all the mods hopeing something die.
i mean ..atleast a vexor.

:D

trolling asside the +5 charma in the previous post wasant my "angry" face the duder was realy nice into tryng to explain why mauluses do this do that but . it was obvious my post no? (i was hopeing didnt have to explain that mauluses DO target past 90km anywho)

didnt come to argue ..hopeing for a balancing of points since atm makes no sence spending 25 when you can have same resuslts with 10 and spend more on other stuff

o7

Bob how do you know the sensor strength of the PL Proteus and do you have their permission to publically post specifics about their setup ?

That aside it's not as simple as you're claiming , it's never just rock paper scissors, and fielding neuts / ECM does not automatically make your setup garbage against everything except one type of setup.
PL's circle jerk setup beat my circle jerk setup by using ECM, was over quite quickly and onesidedly so I wouldn't call that boring to watch.

Lots of cap xfer can make for a difficult to break setup yes , but doesn't look to me like the people hurf blurfing about it have much of a clue on the subject, anything can be beaten - and those setups that will beat it don't have to be pure counters that won't work against any other lineup. (Setup designer has to be pretty terrible for that to be the case)

Yep, fair enough and I hope Ewar frigs do get points nerfed too even just to keep stuff fresh.




I know roughly how the PL proteus was fit by the configuration of the subsystems and by an image that gobbs posted of it during the match. Someone on my team calculated that with the diso sub + 2 local eccm + 2 remote eccm + max skilled would bring the sensor strength to something like 350 before heat and therefore around 400+ with heat. 2 info war linked ( proteus, max skills + electronic sup link ) griffins with 4 multispecs each and optimized for max jamming only jammed the logi proteus once, and even then the griffin died mid jam cycle.

I have no idea what you mean about "not having permission" to disclose the PL fit. I was the team captain of the rep cartel team and I can pretty much do whatever I want.

Its true that a neut /smartbomb heavy setup might not be garbage, but one that is focused heavily on defeating circlejerking is leaving itself quite vulnerable to almost all dps kiting / rush setups. Its not going to stop me from going back to the drawing board and figuring out how to beat these things while keeping a decent team together but it certainly isnt going to be easy.

Again i need to reiterate I am not mad about the outcome. ( although some members of my team are quite angry about it ) I simply want EVE esports to expand and gain viewers by creating interesting content for people to watch. it would be cool if my team and I could live off this stuff ( IRL and in eve ) if it suddenly takes off and teams get major sponsorship. Circlejerks are simply not interesting to watch and drive away viewers

Only issue I see with this, is that when the new BS changes go live on the test server we will obviously have to allow their use in the tournament, and the changes make some of the tech1 BS very viable tournament ships imo.

Not as good as Pirate, but quite possibly as powerful as a navy faction.