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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
517
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Crazy idea, ship the size of a Battleship having the magical ability to control more than 5 drones.
5 is my favorite number, not a magic number.
Add a skill if you feel like it. Make them fit a drone control unit.
Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name?
Figure every 2 years this needs to be discussed. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1504
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name? Nope, especially since Drone Interfacing essentially gives you an extra drone per level. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. |

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
517
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name? Nope, especially since Drone Interfacing essentially gives you an extra drone per level. My point exactly. But you didn't explain why you are against ships with more than 5 drones. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1504
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:My point exactly. But you didn't explain why you are against ships with more than 5 drones. Because it's not necessary and has ramifications beyond simple damage dealing, especially if utility drones get a revamp at some point. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. |

Zeko Rena
ENCOM Industries
114
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 01:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
You used to be able to have ten drones, but it caused too much lag in fleet fights. |

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
517
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Nexus Day wrote:My point exactly. But you didn't explain why you are against ships with more than 5 drones. Because it's not necessary and has ramifications beyond simple damage dealing, especially if utility drones get a revamp at some point. Of course it would have ramifications beyond damage dealing. But god forbid we make people change up the way they approach situations.
I mean look at the stats from the Battle of Asakai. Did something strike you as odd? Mainly a huge battle that barely involved battleships. Why is that? My guess is because battleships are easily nullified by larger AND smaller ships.
Hopefully the next changes will bring battleships back into the battle. Giving the drone battleships the ability to control more drones would, imo, help in this regard. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
|

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13543
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 04:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
There's a reason why removed that abilityGǪ Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |

Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
1507
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 05:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Of course it would have ramifications beyond damage dealing. But god forbid we make people change up the way they approach situations. So what you're saying is that, in addition to extra-range heavy neuts, the new Geddon (for instance) should be able to field 10 ECM drones? Or five ECM drones and five damage drones?
I think five drones is plenty. Professional bad guys were unfortunately not available so instead they sent me. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2492
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 05:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP had the opportunity to revitalize the battleship class and make them viable in combat, they did not.
The revamp is primarily just changing ship stats for changes sake, and blurring the racial traits.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
506
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Roime wrote:CCP had the opportunity to revitalize the battleship class and make them viable in combat, they did not.
The revamp is primarily just changing ship stats for changes sake, and blurring the racial traits.
And nailing amarr into a coffin. yes i mad. yes i will complain every chance i get about my precious geddon i can no longer fly. only commenting here because ive been banned from mumble and TS until i "get over it" (so has half our group, lol, good 50 people temp-banned) |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2184
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Nexus Day wrote:My point exactly. But you didn't explain why you are against ships with more than 5 drones. Because it's not necessary and has ramifications beyond simple damage dealing, especially if utility drones get a revamp at some point. Of course it would have ramifications beyond damage dealing. But god forbid we make people change up the way they approach situations. Try again. Drone cause lag in large numbers. Lots of lag. When you have 50 ships on field, each with 5 drones out, that creates about 250 different flying objects in space that must be handled by the server.
If you give ships the ability to field more than 5 drones then you exponentially increase the number of flying objects in space.
The only reason carriers never received this limitation is because CCP never anticipated how many would be built for personal use... or how frivolously people use them.
Nexus Day wrote:I mean look at the stats from the Battle of Asakai. Did something strike you as odd? Mainly a huge battle that barely involved battleships. Why is that? My guess is because battleships are easily nullified by larger AND smaller ships. Note quite. The current meta for fleet warfare is to be more mobile and/or more damaging than the enemy. Failing that... have more defense and "punching power." Attack Battlecruisers are better at mobile damage than battleships and carriers/dreds are better at defense and anti-cap duty than battleships.
Nexus Day wrote:Hopefully the next changes will bring battleships back into the battle. Giving the drone battleships the ability to control more drones would, imo, help in this regard. Or giving them a higher drone damage bonus... which would largely do the same thing without as many unintended consequences.
edit: @Nariya Kentaya You can have the 'Geddon as it was. The proposed changes for it are stepping on the toes of the Dominix and leaving me fairly "unhappy." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2495
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Try again. Drone cause lag in large numbers. Lots of lag. When you have 50 ships on field, each with 5 drones out, that creates about 250 different flying objects in space that must be handled by the server.
If you give ships the ability to field more than 5 drones then you exponentially increase the number of flying objects in space.
Fun fact - missiles cause more lag, both server side and client side. They are also flying objects in space, but involve more complex calculations and graphics.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
2184
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 07:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Roime wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: Try again. Drone cause lag in large numbers. Lots of lag. When you have 50 ships on field, each with 5 drones out, that creates about 250 different flying objects in space that must be handled by the server.
If you give ships the ability to field more than 5 drones then you exponentially increase the number of flying objects in space.
Fun fact - missiles cause more lag, both server side and client side. They are also flying objects in space, but involve more complex calculations and graphics. Question; what would people complain about more if tinkered with? Drones or missiles?
Every little bit of lag reduced counts. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
81
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 08:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name? Nope, especially since Drone Interfacing essentially gives you an extra drone per level. My point exactly. But you didn't explain why you are against ships with more than 5 drones.
A) Because of LAG
B) My Drones already hav 1K DPS at 57km optimal why would I need more? There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |

baltec1
Bat Country
5916
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 08:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roime wrote:CCP had the opportunity to revitalize the battleship class and make them viable in combat, they did not.
The revamp is primarily just changing ship stats for changes sake, and blurring the racial traits.
You suck at flying battleships then. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2502
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Roime wrote:CCP had the opportunity to revitalize the battleship class and make them viable in combat, they did not.
The revamp is primarily just changing ship stats for changes sake, and blurring the racial traits.
You suck at flying battleships then.
Well, I haven't had any good reason to fly them in ages. Last time I used a Mega was to pop some pocos. And it's been several months since I saw one in lowsec. Unless the Kronos I soloed last week counts.
Maybe they don't offer enough benefits to overcome their weaknesses? I would have loved to see them get a hefty EHP and dps buff to separate them from BCs and pull them closer to caps. Currently all other subcaps are fielded in equal amounts all over EVE, and battleships only in null blobs, and even those have largely been overtaken by BCs and caps.
In wormholes they suffer from their mass, and the fact that they just die easier than T3s while applying damage worse.
In lowsec they suffer from mobility and vulnerability to smaller ships.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

baltec1
Bat Country
5917
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Roime wrote:
In lowsec they suffer from mobility and vulnerability to smaller ships.
You dont fly them yet you say things like this. |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1601
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Crazy idea, ship the size of a Battleship having the magical ability to control more than 5 drones.
5 is my favorite number, not a magic number.
Add a skill if you feel like it. Make them fit a drone control unit.
Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name?
Figure every 2 years this needs to be discussed.
And this here is an example of (forgive the figure of speech OP) "newer player ignorance", an ignorance that could be fixed by asking questions BEFORE making posts.
We see it all the time on this forum, so person who hasn't player EVE all that long relatively speaking coming up with some brilliant, never before seen idea......of something that in reality was once part of the game and got removed for a god reason.
Like drones (sub caps used to be able to field more than 5), like MINES (omg, itf i could only mine a gate, that would be cool, wouldn't it?), like, well, lots of things, you can still find items in game that used to work but that don't know , I think I have some mines somewhere lol.
Like others have told you, there is a reason why it's not a good idea, maybe ask around 1st, then post brilliant idea #28130954 |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2504
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Roime wrote:
In lowsec they suffer from mobility and vulnerability to smaller ships.
You dont fly them yet you say things like this.
That's the reason why nobody flies them in lowsec. If you'd be lucky and spotted one, it would a smartbombing BS in Rancer, or someone playing undock games.
A battleship should be something that evokes fear when it lands on grid. Currently everyone just gets mad happy because it's an easy kill.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
332
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote: I mean look at the stats from the Battle of Asakai. Did something strike you as odd? Mainly a huge battle that barely involved battleships. Why is that? My guess is because battleships are easily nullified by larger AND smaller ships.
Confirming Battleships played no role in Asakai
There are some issues with scaling but I think the problem is really with T3 cruisers being too versatile. I don't think the battleship changes will be of huge consequence as long as the faction BS aren't changed. With the game as it is there is almost no reason not to fly navy BS over T1. Candy's Capital Shop |

baltec1
Bat Country
5917
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 12:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Roime wrote:baltec1 wrote:Roime wrote:
In lowsec they suffer from mobility and vulnerability to smaller ships.
You dont fly them yet you say things like this. That's the reason why nobody flies them in lowsec. If you'd be lucky and spotted one, it would a smartbombing BS in Rancer, or someone playing undock games. A battleship should be something that evokes fear when it lands on grid. Currently everyone just gets mad happy because it's an easy kill.
I fly BS in every gang no matter the gang. They are more than able to hold their own and these changes make them even better. |

Roime
Shiva Furnace
2506
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
I know you do, still nobody flies them in lowsec for the exact reasons I listed.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |

Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Roime wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: Try again. Drone cause lag in large numbers. Lots of lag. When you have 50 ships on field, each with 5 drones out, that creates about 250 different flying objects in space that must be handled by the server.
If you give ships the ability to field more than 5 drones then you exponentially increase the number of flying objects in space.
Fun fact - missiles cause more lag, both server side and client side. They are also flying objects in space, but involve more complex calculations and graphics. Question; what would people complain about more if tinkered with? Drones or missiles? Every little bit of lag reduced counts.
Depends on their preferred ships doesn't it? Caldari players get very upset if you mess with their missiles, Gallente if you mess with their drones.
Personally, even though I do like seeing missiles go whoosh, I'd have no problem with missile based ships being limited to having 5 missiles in flight at any time like drone users are restricted to. |

Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
648
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Could we stop using the term 'exponential' until we understand what it means? Oh god. |

baltec1
Bat Country
5918
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 13:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Roime wrote:I know you do, still nobody flies them in lowsec for the exact reasons I listed.
They dont fly them because they think like you. |

Alternate Poster
Blatant Tax Avoidance Victrix Mortalis
78
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
OP forgot that "EVE is REAL"
 |

Random Majere
Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda
66
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 14:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Roime wrote:CCP had the opportunity to revitalize the battleship class and make them viable in combat, they did not.
The revamp is primarily just changing ship stats for changes sake, and blurring the racial traits.
You suck at flying battleships then.
Bring your Mega in MTO...We at Nulli would like a demonstration. |

ElQuirko
Jester Syndicate WHY so Seri0Us
1262
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 16:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote: With the game as it is there is almost no reason not to fly navy BS over T1.
Cost. Insurance. Save the Domi model! Spacewhales should be preserved. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
4550
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 16:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:baltec1 wrote:Roime wrote:CCP had the opportunity to revitalize the battleship class and make them viable in combat, they did not.
The revamp is primarily just changing ship stats for changes sake, and blurring the racial traits.
You suck at flying battleships then. Bring your Mega in MTO...We at Nulli would like a demonstration. Don't really need one. We already know the Mega is easy to run from. Malcanis for CSM 8 Module activation timers are buggy - CCP please fix |

Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
1603
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 16:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Roime wrote:I know you do, still nobody flies them in lowsec for the exact reasons I listed.
No one? Damn, I must have imagined that Blinky red battleship/BC/T3 gang that tried to that tried to catch my Tengu last night in Molden Heath.....
|

baltec1
Bat Country
5920
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 16:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Random Majere wrote:
Bring your Mega in MTO...We at Nulli would like a demonstration.
Come vist VFK, everyone else is. |

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
2396
|
Posted - 2013.04.11 17:30:00 -
[32] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Crazy idea, ship the size of a Battleship having the magical ability to control more than 5 drones.
5 is my favorite number, not a magic number.
Add a skill if you feel like it. Make them fit a drone control unit.
Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name?
Figure every 2 years this needs to be discussed.
We could also discuss why ships the size of a city have less than a dozen guns, but what's the point?
It is what it is....
Game balance, bandwidth issues, or whatever. You will not see more than 5 drones again.
Mr Epeen  There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
520
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 00:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Someone who complains about lag from drones and makes comments about the battle for Askari didn't see the number of carriers and super carriers present.
Please come up with another excuse for battleships not to have more drones. Or better yet let CCP come up with the excuses. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Savnire Jacitu
Black Rabbits Inc Krispy Kritters Alliance
129
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 01:21:00 -
[34] - Quote
I feel like the Vindi and the Mach are the only battleships that have a battleship feel to them. Like when I see one of those I get a little nervious no matter what I'm flying. <corrupt> |

Alara IonStorm
4881
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:16:00 -
[35] - Quote
I was hoping for 2 big improvement I didn't see. Scan Res and MWD cap use.
Battleship scan res being so low means they take about 9 seconds to lock even a Battlescruiser and 12+ to lock a Cruiser. I was hoping they would increase scan res to about 140-170 max skill. That would still leave Frigates and Destroyers 10 seconds before getting locked and about 7-8 with a Sebo while increasing their lock times on ships like Battlecruisers and Cruiser to reasonable numbers like 5-9 seconds. With 1 Sebo they should have the lock time of a Battlecruiser below them.
As for MWD's it would certainly help a lot for active tanked vessels and cap using gun vessels. Right now most cap out in 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 minutes before running anything else. They gobble much more cap than smaller ships while Battleship don't scale up as much in cap and recharge. I think it would be a big improvement to have them run flat out for 4-6 minutes like Cruisers and Battlecruisers. It would lessen the need for Cap Boosters while still making them important for Active Tanks, Running Neuts, defense against Cap Warfare and using Cap Heavy Weapons.
Those were the two biggest changes I was hoping for, besides that all I thought they needed was Tieracide.
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
520
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Roime wrote:I know you do, still nobody flies them in lowsec for the exact reasons I listed.
No one? Damn, I must have imagined that Blinky red battleship/BC/T3 gang that tried to that tried to catch my Tengu last night in Molden Heath..... Ahh, the one battleship gang equals a trend. Brilliant. Compared to how many frig/cruiser/BC gangs?
This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
520
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 04:54:00 -
[37] - Quote
So far the one counterpoint to BS having more than 5 drones has been lag. Of course the change to 5 drones was made well before TD so "the good reason" seems to have been addressed.
Another point was ZOMG they will be able to damage and neut! Well golly gee, I guess fleets don't already carry bombs to nullify carriers. So I am thinking this is another somewhat weak argument against.
The pros would be the potential to see more BS in fleets and low sec. This would promote more industry. It would also add new dimensions of gameplay. This thread has so much content it may be 'Thread of the Year' and it is only January.
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Le Badass
Zealots of Bob
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 06:28:00 -
[38] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Try again. Drone cause lag in large numbers. Lots of lag. When you have 50 ships on field, each with 5 drones out, that creates about 250 different flying objects in space that must be handled by the server. "
Check yo math, foo'!  |

Shadow Lord77
Shadow Industries I
210
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 15:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
The restriction of the amount of fieldable drones by subcaps was put in place before TiDi was introduced. Technically this limit can be raised in lieu of this change eve would only suffer I think minimal amounts of added lag in congested solar systems. The game play mechanic of adding more drones would however necessitate the rebalancing of the drone interfacing skill and any ship that uses drones; and this would also mean that instead of having to focus on destroying five drones at a time you may have to destroy twice as much depending if drone capacities and bandwidth for ships are raised. I don't see the need to do this and it might cause more issues just to solve the problem of "I wanna see more drones coming out of mah spaceship!" |

Veronica Kerrigan
Hand Of Midas My Other Laboratory is a Distillery
87
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
Roime wrote:I know you do, still nobody flies them in lowsec for the exact reasons I listed.
I find that battleships designed to be more mobile and versatile (Read Tempest and Typhoon) can be a great asset in Lowsec. They supplement battlecruiser gangs quite nicely, giving a bit of weight to an otherwise fairly light gang. They provide the heavy support that you just can't get on smaller ships, mainly backup swarms of drones, and large neuts. The rest of the battleships are designed to be used in large fleet, where they never need to be mobile, but rather perform area denial, much like all other large fleets. |

Arronicus
Shadows of Vorlon The Marmite Collective
520
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Battleship 'changes' (probably nerfs) coming in the summer rebalance. More drones is a bad thing though, because it means more server strain. 1 ship plus 5 drones is 6 entities, all firing weapons, flying around, being targetable, etc. Excluding missiles, on a 500 person fleet flight, that's a potential 3000 entities, instead of just 500. Now give them the ability to have double the drones, and you're looking at 5500, instead of even just 3000. Gets very bad, very fast. |

bufnitza calatoare
Nex Angelus. Unclaimed.
92
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 05:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nexus Day wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Nexus Day wrote:Do people feel there should be more than one, almost extinct, ship that can control more than 5 drones that does not have "carrier" in its name? Nope, especially since Drone Interfacing essentially gives you an extra drone per level. My point exactly. But you didn't explain why you are against ships with more than 5 drones.
drone interfacing gives you another drone per lvl IF you fit a Drone Control Unit I, and that only works on a carrier/sc |

Dread SinJin
Dark Energy.
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 05:28:00 -
[43] - Quote
No every BS should be able to field 1 flight of sentry or 1 flight of light/heavy prob solved . No more band width |
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