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Meridius
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Posted - 2005.09.17 19:26:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Jim Raynor
Quote:
Uhh, an Ishtar has 83.75% kinetic resistance on armor. Compared to a Muninns 92.25% it's 46% less effective.
Well Muninn/Vagabond EM Armor Resistance is 92.5% but close enough. They're still both very high values yes. How do you get 46% though?
Calculate putting a 46% hardner on 83.75% base resists and tell me what you get. I just did and it's actually more then 46%. It's close to 55%. So the Muninns armor has another tech 2 hardner on compared to the Deimos when it comes to blocking out it's racial enemys primary damage type.
Quote:
Another easy way to break your argument is a Deimos vs an Eagle. The eagle has less shield kinetic resistance then it does thermal while the Deimos outputs 60%+ kinetic. In other words, the resists are not nearly as effective as a Vagabond is to a Zealot.
I find it very annoying that Gallante are supposed to be the "thermal" damage dealing race yet hybrids mostly deal kinetic, yes.
Yeah well it makes it easier for Gallente to fight there racial enemy.
Quote:
So yeah the Deimos has it naturally easy when fighting an Eagle in relation to resistances while the Eagle has a harder time.
Yes, much less DPS against higher resistances, fun fight for an Eagle. My point is a Zealot does SO much DPS that it can possibly overcome the uber minmatar hac resist, while the Eagle, a low DPS sniper, will never really overwhelm a Deimos on its worst day.
Sorry, a Zealot is not going to overcome anything unless hes fighting a complete muppet. If a well fit eagle fought a muppet of a Deimos he'd win to.
Hell actually, that situation doesn't require a muppet Deimos. You have 5 mids, you can use EW to your advantage and you know what i'm talking about. Oh and right you don't even have to use kinetic only, a Cerebus can use whatever dmg type it wants. The Zealot can only ever use 60%+ EM + thermal, thats it.
Quote:
Amarr have it even worse fighting against there racial enemy and the worst part? The racial resists we get mean **** all because Minmatar can output 80% thermal.
I never said it was fair, but what does this have to do with lasers tbh?
Uhh lasers are Amarri weapons, to balance them you have to consider everything. DUH? Other races don't have this problem therfore it is an advantage we lack.
Quote:
We get shafted both ways, in dealing damage to our racial enemy and tanking damage from our racial enemy.
Eagle yeah, Cerberus no, since it can switch missile types.. but sometimes you lose so much DPS switching you might as well stick with kinetics.. :(
Still better then being stuck with 60% of one and 40% of the other.
Quote:
I'm aware tanking angels is hard. They blew up my Carebearus, remember?
Whats that have to do with anything You can fight what is it, serpentis? Hit there weakest resist everytime while being able to tank them good to.
We don't have that.
Quote:
So hush please, you hate Amarr and it's obvious
I don't hate Amarr. I just don't think lasers suck nor do their ships suck. They have the best DPS ships in the game. Honestly, Zealot vs Deimos, you know the Zealot wins 9 outta 10 times.
Zealot vs Vagabond or Muninn, Zealot still has a shot, even with the uber resistances of the Minmatar HAC. Zealots are just ganktastic wtfpwnbombs.
Wow the classic Deimos vs Zealot example. Oh and you are way wrong to. If that Zealot doesn't have an mwd, he's ******. I fly without mwd 90% of the time.
No respectable Muninn or Vagabond pilot will ever lose a 1 on 1 against a Zealot, period. There is no chance, this immense damage you speak of is horse ****. You don't fly Amarr and it shows k
We have 2 good damage ships, the Zealot and the Geddon. Thats it. Don't even get me started on how an Ishtar can match a Zealots full rack of heavy pulse + 4 damage mods with drones alone and is not constricted to any one damage type.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.17 19:45:00 -
[62]
Honestly when you add it all up, the Minmatar HAC resists are only slightly better when compared to the others, it's just that 92.5% EM resist on armor is helluva high and quite frankly if you try to use radio against them yes it won't work out very well for you what so ever.
Minmatar HAC thermal resist is not THAT great though, so your lasers are hardly completely ineffective. Vagabonds usually shield tank so lasers will have a good chance against them too.
Obviously the racial damage thing isn't perfect. An Ishtar with its nosferatu, 1600mm plate, electronic warfare, and 15 freaking heavy EM/Explosive drones is a good example. Yes the Ishtar is uber, I have no idea how to beat one in a Caldari HAC either, they're just that good.
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FERRET DEMOCRACY |
infused
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:00:00 -
[63]
lol...
[EvE Domination]
YARRRRRR!!!!!!!!! |
infused
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:04:00 -
[64]
If anything, boost lasers or give em another damage type.
[EvE Domination]
YARRRRRR!!!!!!!!! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:13:00 -
[65]
Originally by: infused
If anything, boost lasers or give em another damage type.
Yes because Zealots and Armageddons just don't do enough damage, please lets kick that up a notch. rofl.
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FERRET DEMOCRACY |
danneh
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: theRaptor
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: infused
If anything, boost lasers or give em another damage type.
Yes because Zealots and Armageddons just don't do enough damage, please lets kick that up a notch. rofl.
I agree with Jim 100%. Boost Geddons!
Signed!.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:20:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: infused
If anything, boost lasers or give em another damage type.
Yes because Zealots and Armageddons just don't do enough damage, please lets kick that up a notch. rofl.
I agree with Jim 100%. Boost Geddons!
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
Crellion
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Posted - 2005.09.18 11:10:00 -
[68]
I on the other hand agree with Svett. Perhaps its time to lock this dear mods. Thank You
(PS @ Svett give my congrats to 15 of your corp members and allies who I made huppy by tanking just enough so that you could all fit in that killmail. *Also reminds self better tank is needed against 3xBS 6X HAC 1X BC 2x Cruiser 3xAF  )
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munkehdotnet
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:42:00 -
[69]
Get a clue , so your a caldari fan boy. so if your going up against laser boats tank for EM & thermal. it'd be nice to know what flavour of missiles your raven will be spamming. oh and you can run a full tank and not have your weapons off i say "NERF MISSIELS AGAIN SO THEYO NEED CAP!oenoen"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:47:00 -
[70]
Originally by: munkehdotnet
Get a clue , so your a caldari fan boy. so if your going up against laser boats tank for EM & thermal. it'd be nice to know what flavour of missiles your raven will be spamming. oh and you can run a full tank and not have your weapons off i say "NERF MISSIELS AGAIN SO THEYO NEED CAP!oenoen"
i detect bitterness from mr alty mcalterson here!
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munkehdotnet
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:52:00 -
[71]
me an alt =o, aye i'd make a great RP'er i was disowned by my real parents and found myself brought up by the amarr navy
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Crellion
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Posted - 2005.09.19 14:59:00 -
[72]
Oiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii LOCK PLS
This was supposed to be an exercise to show the futility of whining and it has turned into full time whining and flamming on both sides
lock lock lock lock lock lock lock lock lock lock
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Laendra
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Posted - 2005.09.19 15:13:00 -
[73]
Haha, Lasers, if anything need some loving. As it is now, I can tank those poor bastards all day long without blinking an eyelash. There is absolutely no variation in the types of damage that they do (EM and Thermal only), plus the range for the good ones (pulses, which have a much higher rate of fire than beams) have already been nerfed, making them effectively <20k weapons for a large weapon. Beams have marginally better range, but crap for DPS.
Now, compare a Large Beam vs, say a 1400mm Howitzer....and projectiles have a much, much higher DPS than lasers (I've compared combat logs when shooting Conquerable Stations)...so get a clue ;)
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.19 15:21:00 -
[74]
this thread needs to die.
lasers are no less predictable in dmg types than hybrids
they do more damage than hybrids generally
they use as much or less cap due to the amarr ship bonus
they track much better than hybrids
they dont use ammo, you can carry a wide variety of ranges, yes crystals cost lots but they last forever (or did till ccp broke them by accident)
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toto007
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Posted - 2005.09.19 15:35:00 -
[75]
Originally by: infused
If anything, boost lasers or give em another damage type.
rofl
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munkehdotnet
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Posted - 2005.09.19 17:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
they use as much or less cap due to the amarr ship bonus
you tried using tachyons?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.19 19:27:00 -
[77]
Originally by: munkehdotnet
Originally by: Jim Raynor
they use as much or less cap due to the amarr ship bonus
you tried using tachyons?
tachs use about 35 a shot on amarr ships and 425mm rails use 23 cap per shot.. woo hoo.
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Derron Bel
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:11:00 -
[78]
Umm, if you have battleship V. Heh.
-==-
Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise!
LooseCannoN> ahh!
LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2005.09.19 20:14:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Derron Bel
Umm, if you have battleship V. Heh.
lots of people do..
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Scoundrelus
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Posted - 2005.09.19 21:54:00 -
[80]
Lasers do huge base damage? Every other weapon ive ever used does more damage then lasers. Only reason I use lasers is that cool "pew!" sound they make when they fire!
===============================================
I will punch you with my laser!
-Scoundrelus |
crom ralphfao
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Posted - 2005.09.19 23:05:00 -
[81]
i think its time to nerf ore, i mean how fair is it that a "veteran" can mine and make more isk than someone new to the game. also, lets nerf all the ex-WOW, SWG players who are trying to level the playing field to the horror of those who like a challenge in their gameplay.
thanks to the original poster for scaring the **** out of the 13 year olds. sometimes it pays to read a thread before responding, lets do more of these.
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.09.19 23:32:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Lasers do huge base damage? Every other weapon ive ever used does more damage then lasers. Only reason I use lasers is that cool "pew!" sound they make when they fire!
Well apparently you havent used any other weapons. Beams do more dps than rails and a LOT more than arty. Megapulse are still, post nerf, arguably the best gun in the game.
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Ankanos
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Posted - 2005.09.20 02:02:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Crellion
Well it seems all other other weapon systems have been balanced... Guess whose turn its for ... the balancebat!
yeah, it needs to swung at your head..
is this your main? i might take up PvP just to pod
you repeatedly for bringing up such pointless topics.
laser are fine, all the weapon systems work great.
learn how to use them, learn how to counter them.
-and get neutered.
-ank
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Destroyer Draxx
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Posted - 2005.09.20 06:00:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Destroyer Draxx on 20/09/2005 06:02:28
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Lasers do huge base damage? Every other weapon ive ever used does more damage then lasers. Only reason I use lasers is that cool "pew!" sound they make when they fire!
Well apparently you havent used any other weapons. Beams do more dps than rails and a LOT more than arty. Megapulse are still, post nerf, arguably the best gun in the game.
True ;) but dont c them getting nerfed ever since Tombs alts fly amarr ships ;P
Btw pulses should do far less dmg than blasters, which is not the case atm
So Far So Good....So What |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.09.20 11:27:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Drawbacks to lasers:
Their damage is predictable.
Beam lasers especially have a high power requirement.
Their capacitor usage is so high that most Amarrian ships waste a skill bonus to compensate for it.
Their fall-off is poor compared to other guns.
These drawbacks more than compensate for any perceived advantages to lasers.
rofl, yeah, hybrid damage is very much not predictable.. wasted bonus?
how about missile velocity, is that not a wasted bonus? ccp could easily increase missile speed by 50% and give caldari ships a much more useful bonus, no?
largest grid req and cap usage? well that sounds about right for the ships with the largest grids and capacitors
low fall off? how about crystal swapping?
plz..
Jim, my point was that lasers were not the all-powerful weapons that the OP implied, not that other weapon types were not without disadvantages. All weapons have a variety of different pros and cons, which makes the game interesting
You may say that the speed bonus for missiles is wasted (even though you've in the past complained about the low effective range of missiles), but surely that's a case for changing the bonus on Caldari ships rather than further nerfing lasers?
Likewise, when I commented on the predictable damage types of lasers, I didn't claim that hybrids were unpredictable. I fully accept that they also have this problem.
And yes, the fast swapping of crystals does cancel out the poor fall-off - I've said so myself many times in the past. But things are going to get bad when T2 crystals are released as it seem likely that they will be unstackable. Changing out crystals in those cirumstances is anything but trouble free.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Rex Martell
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Posted - 2005.09.20 11:38:00 -
[86]
I tought the orginal post was stupid.... Then I read the replies..
Thats some nice team work you got going there folks
"The object of war is not to die for your corp, but to make the other b@##@#d die for his" |
StOrM ViPeR
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Posted - 2005.09.20 11:49:00 -
[87]
Lasers got nerfed ages ago, megapulses were made less good.
You should read the threads of people annoyed at the laser nerfs. |
Vajell
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Posted - 2005.09.20 12:14:00 -
[88]
lasers are balanced fine, they require no nerfing
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kessah
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Posted - 2005.09.20 12:41:00 -
[89]
Lasers are fine, they look cool, they sound cool, there in lots of pretty colours, and i like my prey cooked 
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DrunkenOne
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Posted - 2005.09.20 15:36:00 -
[90]
Edited by: DrunkenOne on 20/09/2005 15:38:00
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Originally by: Scoundrelus
Lasers do huge base damage? Every other weapon ive ever used does more damage then lasers. Only reason I use lasers is that cool "pew!" sound they make when they fire!
Well apparently you havent used any other weapons. Beams do more dps than rails and a LOT more than arty. Megapulse are still, post nerf, arguably the best gun in the game.
Um, yes. If you land on top of your target.
Short range bbq, mid range fine. Long range?
Like has been repeated. Advantages and disadvantages, like all other weapon types.
20km range is on top of your target now? And I think you basically just proved my point. Name 1 other gone that is "short range bbq, mid range fine?" Rails/Beams/Arty suck at close range. Blasters/autocannons cant hit at mid range. So um... gg.
btw i think megapulse are fine, I'm just sayin...
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