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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.17 20:59:00 -
[1]
My precious, precious thorax is Ruined now.
The only thing It had going for it was its Large amounts of heavy drones, and now those have been reduced, It can't be used for pvp proply.
If I'm recalling this correctly, the thorax is incapable of fitting a decent amount of medium weapons and a decentish tank.
Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time.
I loved setting up a 1600mm Plated Thorax with Nosfs and a Powerful tank, with a Huge ammount of drones for pvp, and now its not possible anymore.
And don't say "get T2 Drone skills they give the same DPS".
T2 Drones really Aren't that much of an improvement.
So, How about Upping the Vexors drone Bay to say 250/300 m3.
Gallante are supposed to be drone based, why no uber drone carryer?
So I say this.
Goodbye thorax, its been nice knowing you.
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The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2005.09.17 21:17:00 -
[2]
naaaw. would you liek some cheese with that?
on a serious note, yes please, 250/300 m3 droenbay on the vexor. that just means more drones in my ishtar :D
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.17 21:19:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Elrathias
naaaw. would you liek some cheese with that?
on a serious note, yes please, 250/300 m3 droenbay on the vexor. that just means more drones in my ishtar :D
Nah, I'm Cheese Intolerant.
Yes, one of the gallante cruisers needs to have there Pg/cpu Lowered, but be given **** loads of Drones.
And I mean a +15 bonus to drone in the air per Cruiser Level.
/me drools at over 75 possible drones.
If were gonan do that, lower drone size to 1m3 per drone, so I can use all 75 of my drones.
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The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
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Batar Fireheart
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Posted - 2005.09.17 21:32:00 -
[4]
well it is about time they nerfed the rax
"MAY YOUR WALLET BE FULL OF ISK AND YOUR CANNONS BLESSED" |
mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.17 21:58:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Batar Fireheart
well it is about time they nerfed the rax
No it wasn't.
The Rax was fine.
So where missiles, but I'm not ******* getting into that right now
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The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
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BH Sharkbait
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Posted - 2005.09.17 22:34:00 -
[6]
imo the thorax is still a very good ship and 1 of the best T1 cruisers, but thats only my opion.
the new changes are available on sisi now. you can find the MK2 ships in hanger 6. some still have to be updated, but that will happen soon 
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.17 22:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: j0sephine on 17/09/2005 22:46:57
"If I'm recalling this correctly, the thorax is incapable of fitting a decent amount of medium weapons and a decentish tank."
This was the case, and it's why it's given 150 mw powergrid increase, to make up for 100 m3 of the drone bay.
With the new grid it appoears capable of fitting both decent tank (800mm plate, hardeners, repairer) and full set of medium weapons... well, on paper anyway ^^;;;
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Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2005.09.17 23:16:00 -
[8]
Quote:
I loved setting up a 1600mm Plated Thorax with Nosfs and a Powerful tank, with a Huge ammount of drones for pvp, and now its not possible anymore.
I would miss a ship that could do everything too :P Is it good it has been made to fir a certain roll? YUP
Also the fitting 1600mm plates (Battleship armour) without MAJOR mass penalties is Stupid. I heard plate armour will get nerfed too so fitting Plates that are for a class up on a small ship will suffer larger penalties.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.18 10:09:00 -
[9]
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 17/09/2005 22:46:57
"If I'm recalling this correctly, the thorax is incapable of fitting a decent amount of medium weapons and a decentish tank."
This was the case, and it's why it's given 150 mw powergrid increase, to make up for 100 m3 of the drone bay.
With the new grid it appoears capable of fitting both decent tank (800mm plate, hardeners, repairer) and full set of medium weapons... well, on paper anyway ^^;;;
I'll have to go check that out on SiSi....
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The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.18 10:10:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kelgen Thann
Quote:
I loved setting up a 1600mm Plated Thorax with Nosfs and a Powerful tank, with a Huge ammount of drones for pvp, and now its not possible anymore.
I would miss a ship that could do everything too :P Is it good it has been made to fir a certain roll? YUP
Also the fitting 1600mm plates (Battleship armour) without MAJOR mass penalties is Stupid. I heard plate armour will get nerfed too so fitting Plates that are for a class up on a small ship will suffer larger penalties.
Putting a 1600mm Plate on a Thorax seriously gimped Everything else.
It was the Ultimate Tank you could achieve on thoraxs.
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The Comments and/or Actions above in noway indicate the veiws or actions of my corporation.
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.09.18 15:20:00 -
[11]
All I want to say is, from a missioning setup, I very very much need that 1600mm plate on the rax, to have a chance of survival with the mission rats lately after the patch. Please take into account that for the battleship plate, I get armed with all frig class weapons. I haven't the awsome number of skills nessasary to fully achieve all the rax is capable of either.. Many other cruisers have a significantly easier time with level 3 missions solo than a rax has from my perspective of low skill.. Now if drones worked like drones should, then the rax could have some balance issues because of sheer effeniency improvements. If drones worked right, the common 8 pack of ogres would truly be 80% or more of your potential threat and damage output in a rax. I often feel like I am providing cover fire for the drones more than destroying targets with my small 150mm rails, modal blasters and webber. Staying in the thick of combat with cruisers and frigs so when they switch targets I can be close enuff to scoop the ogre under fire and redeploy. Thats farkin tuff work on 1.3 mill SP..
However if plate gets modified to increase mass-drag for size class diffrences that would neatly end it. The rax is fairly slow as it is, if not 1600mm, some plate will be added to the thorax so it always suffers some speed reduction. However the massive power need for the big plate seriously hruts a rax already. I don't think it needs to be nerf'd, the plate or the rax.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.18 17:10:00 -
[12]
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
Originally by: TomB
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Mining in a dreadnaught.....Should be banned
/signed
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PsyBoRG
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Posted - 2005.09.19 10:49:00 -
[13]
buuhuu buuhuu weird they are only nerfing your thorax they just made mine better i wonder what ur doing wrong...
...
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Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2005.09.19 19:58:00 -
[14]
Quote:
However if plate gets modified to increase mass-drag for size class diffrences that would neatly end it. The rax is fairly slow as it is, if not 1600mm, some plate will be added to the thorax so it always suffers some speed reduction. However the massive power need for the big plate seriously hruts a rax already. I don't think it needs to be nerf'd, the plate or the rax.
The reason they are doing it is ecause you can stick large plates on Frigs, or Cruisers and it throws off PVP. I don't have a link to when the nerf was comming from but I was told it is on it's way. I coudl be wrong though, but this nerf makes sens, even though I use 1600mm plates on my Blackbird and use it as a hard-to-kill EW platform
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Wolverine PL
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Posted - 2005.09.20 16:38:00 -
[15]
I like the way they changed rax, Rax and all gallante ships always had to low pg to fit decent weapons.
Now I can easy fit 5 ions and med rep t2 plus some CPR.
Earlier that wasnt possible.
I cant wait to fly in MK2 rax in tranquality server.
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MAcheTT3
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Posted - 2005.09.20 19:39:00 -
[16]
I'm a Gallente only ship user and I have to say that the Thorax has been over powered for a long time. It's definately a good thing that it's Drone bay has been decreased, as much as it sucks.
| .ZOMG RECRUITING NOW | LOOK AT ME! I MAKE SIGS! WOO! | |
Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.09.20 21:09:00 -
[17]
Why cant the proposed changes be listed in the forums here? Any DEV care to comment? I don't have time in my life to screw with the test server.. Not that it matters, common opinion that i've seen suggests it dosent make a spit of diffrence if any of us use the test server.. The dev's don't pay attention to our reports and ignore major bug's as well as violations of conduct consistantly.. If my rax gets a drone bay reduction, and plates get nerf'd, I as a low skill player will no longer be able to do Level 3 solo work in one unless some truly amazing improvements are included which I haven't heard about here. And if I am told that the game is intended to be multiplayer all the time, well screw off because I like to work alone alot. Besides you can't trust anyone not closely connected through corp or personal relationship not to shoot you in the back.
And I would suggest that if every balancing decision is made based on PvP alone, we will have very little more than a one big gang versus the one other big gang and the rest of us be screwed and ignored kind of game. Personally it'll be the deal breaker that prompts me to stop paying. I want PvP in the game, I do not want it to dominate every aspect of it or limit my exploration of it.
They make missions and PvE harder, they make ships weaker and weaker, they fail to introduce higher tech material at a sufficient rate, they do not take appropriate action to improve the user interface, they do no take into consideration player inputs beyond the whailing cry of PvP'ers. My dissapointment grows, as does the desire to flame dev's for being neigh worthless and CCP for being just another money grubbing company with no real intrest in developing the best game. I continue to resist as best I can.
Gwenvahar~
"When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.." LedZepplin
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Ante
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Posted - 2005.09.21 04:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Originally by: Batar Fireheart
well it is about time they nerfed the rax
No it wasn't.
The Rax was fine.
Well apparently it wasn't fine or else they wouldn't be changing it.
Quote:
So where missiles, but I'm not ******* getting into that right now
If you couldn't see the problem with missiles before...
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BlackHawk177
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Posted - 2005.09.21 06:02:00 -
[19]
Edited by: BlackHawk177 on 21/09/2005 06:02:33
Originally by: Gwenvahar
Why cant the proposed changes be listed in the forums here?
*Cough* Proposed Changes *Cough*
Look for the part that says Assualt Cruisers and ZOMG!!! Drones bay reduction for Thorax...
Everything else I read looked like.. Whine Whine Whine... Cry Cry Cry... I'm gonna stop playing... Whine Cry Waaa...
Can we shoot them yet? |
Malken
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Posted - 2005.09.21 09:09:00 -
[20]
hehe some ppl just dont want to read blackie
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.09.21 21:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BlackHawk177
Edited by: BlackHawk177 on 21/09/2005 06:02:33
Originally by: Gwenvahar
Why cant the proposed changes be listed in the forums here?
*Cough* Proposed Changes *Cough*
Look for the part that says Assualt Cruisers and ZOMG!!! Drones bay reduction for Thorax...
Everything else I read looked like.. Whine Whine Whine... Cry Cry Cry... I'm gonna stop playing... Whine Cry Waaa...
No actually I had found that later in the night, thanks... Took the time to read the DEV blog that linked to the thread with all the proposed changes.. I looked over it, not at all impressed.. I dunno what ships were origionaly like befor the 1st wave of changes, but at least the Thorax is gonna suck alot more now. Tweaking the ships is not what I'd consider the priority for DEV's to be concentrating on.. I point their considerable skill at the continualy increasing lag issues for high populated space, and areas where large fleet conflict occurs.. Oh and drone logic, lets not forget the drones being stupid.
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Ravenge
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Posted - 2005.09.21 21:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: HippoKing
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
It could always fit medium guns..  It just sucked for tanking, doesn't have the cap to be a blaster ship.. and can be out tanked by the maller (with its 8 heavy drones.) and has the lowest amount of slots of any tier 3 cruiser.. the reason for the was because of its 200m3 drone bay
Now it can still fit medium drones.. has a little better tank, still doesn't have enough cap to be a decent blastership, still has the lowest amount of slots of all tier 3 cruisers.. and so on..
anyway, isn't it about time you started the nerf the maller whines?
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WickedWeasel
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Posted - 2005.09.22 11:39:00 -
[23]
just add another slot to the rax. 13 slots compared to 14/14/15 for the other Tier 3 cruisers is plain stupid if you ask me.
- 100m3 drone bay: 10 med drones (T2?) : faster and maybe about 2/3 dmg
- med guns = more dmg.
tank is worse but AFAIK it can still be plated, with the right skills and eqquipment.
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ChaosOne
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Posted - 2005.09.22 14:10:00 -
[24]
my god, i think people are gonna have to start putting guns on rax's instead of relying on drones and 5000ap's. what a shame.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.09.22 23:11:00 -
[25]
Hahahahahahahahahaha,
A Thorax was the most used thorax ingame before patch, why?
I'm still gonna take my thorax out instead of my Maller anyday after patch.
PS. 10 Medium t2 drones is still more then enough.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.09.22 23:17:00 -
[26]
Edited by: danneh on 22/09/2005 23:18:38
Originally by: Ravenge
doesn't have the cap to be a blaster ship..
I have Gallente Cruiser lvl 3 and i have 1200 capacitor on my thorax with an mvd fitted.
Thorax, 1100 capacitor before skills.
Maller 1200 capacitor before skills.
Rupture 1000 capacitor before skills.
Moa 1100 capacitor before skills.
Now if you whould actully train some skills to get the thorax mvd bonus.
So yeah train some skills, just cause your I win button has been removed doesnt mean that its the end of the world.
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Ravenge
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Posted - 2005.09.23 00:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: danneh
Edited by: danneh on 22/09/2005 23:18:38
Originally by: Ravenge
doesn't have the cap to be a blaster ship..
I have Gallente Cruiser lvl 3 and i have 1200 capacitor on my thorax with an mvd fitted.
Thorax, 1100 capacitor before skills.
Maller 1200 capacitor before skills.
Rupture 1000 capacitor before skills.
Moa 1100 capacitor before skills.
Now if you whould actully train some skills to get the thorax mvd bonus.
So yeah train some skills, just cause your I win button has been removed doesnt mean that its the end of the world.
Awww bless, well please tell me how to train skill past lvl 5.. and shall do so..
oh and for the record, my ships of choice are the deimos and vag.. I'm just looking at this from thepoint of view that the whining elite fail to understand. That the rax was never that uber.. after all heavy drone get torn apart by medium drones and if you don't have medium drones.. well medium weapons work even better.
Ships like the maller, are just as over powered.. but again.. the whining elite can't get past the "Whaaa he can use 8 heavy drones." so, when its all said.. i will keep flying my HAC's and possible my "I win" claw and maller and wait for the next "Whaaa nerf this." thread.
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danneh
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Posted - 2005.09.23 01:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ravenge
...
How is the Maller ovepowered?, Because it can tank better then the Thorax?,
The thorax 200 m3 drone bay was overpowered cause is could tank same as any other cruisers with plates but with huge dmg diffrence because of the drones.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.23 05:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Ravenge
Ships like the maller, are just as over powered.. but again.. the whining elite can't get past the "Whaaa he can use 8 heavy drones." so, when its all said.. i will keep flying my HAC's and possible my "I win" claw and maller and wait for the next "Whaaa nerf this." thread.
No the maller is pretty crap actually. Omen kicks its ass. If you can not see what is wrong with being able to have an uber tank and hardly drop your DPS (thanks to 8 heavy drones) then please end yourself. If the maller could fit a 1600 tank and heavy pulse then it would be overpowered.
P.S. I am a thorax pilot.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
sallyr
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Posted - 2005.09.23 13:33:00 -
[30]
Originally by: HippoKing
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
cough a raven can
lows of damage mods mids of tank highs of power ownage
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <)
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Ravenge
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Posted - 2005.09.23 15:38:00 -
[31]
Originally by: theRaptor
No the maller is pretty crap actually. Omen kicks its ass. If you can not see what is wrong with being able to have an uber tank and hardly drop your DPS (thanks to 8 heavy drones) then please end yourself. If the maller could fit a 1600 tank and heavy pulse then it would be overpowered.
P.S. I am a thorax pilot.
Well, first of all.. people are moaning that the mk2 maller is too good.. and that there isn't any point in flying an omen. (see the mk2 thread in ships and mods.)
next, you can fit a 1600mm plate tank (with 3 active t2 hardeners) with medium turrets.. or how about fitting a 1600mm and a 800mm with 3 x t2 active hardeners.. this will mean you will have to fit small gun, but you have the added bonus of being able to fit a medium nos. (the 1600mm with medium sized turrets you can only fit a small nos.) this gives you 8.5k of armour with resists in the upper 70's ..
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.09.24 01:01:00 -
[32]
Originally by: sallyr
Originally by: HippoKing
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
cough a raven can
lows of damage mods mids of tank highs of power ownage
Ah, but here's the difference: the raven has a very low DPS to start, roughly half that of a mega or apoc, so it HAS to tank. (Not to mention it can't fit anywhere near as many damage mods as the mega and apoc due to having fewer lows.)
-Wrayeth
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Kelgen Thann
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Posted - 2005.09.26 01:57:00 -
[33]
Quote:
next, you can fit a 1600mm plate tank (with 3 active t2 hardeners) with medium turrets.. or how about fitting a 1600mm and a 800mm
I'm fairly certain the Armour plates are going the same path as Afterburners. Frig sized weapon, cruiser sized, BS sized etc. Maybe a Battlecruiser can fit a 800mm or a 1600mm, but dont look for being able to fit a 1600mm plate on a cruiser for long.
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mirel yirrin
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Posted - 2005.09.26 07:00:00 -
[34]
Can this thread die now please, I actually went on the Test server and tested them, its a better ship now...
kthxbye
---------------------------------
KORKY Is Recruiting now!
Convo me for More Details.
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Ravenge
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: mirel yirrin
Can this thread die now please, I actually went on the Test server and tested them, its a better ship now...
kthxbye
How about no... being as that what most people here are forgetting that the rax now rerquires a lot more skill point to fly. Where that may not be a problem for most of us. It does become a problem for the newer players..
Simple cruiser shouldn't require the large amounts of SP's to fly, though eve isn't like most instant gratification games such as wow (thank god.) it should have some level of gratification.. and being forced to fly ship that you don't want to because a few cry babies couldn't learn a few tactics to beat a simple rax can put people off.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:18:00 -
[36]
"How about no... being as that what most people here are forgetting that the rax now rerquires a lot more skill point to fly."
It requires as many skill points as any other tier.3 cruiser. How's that a problem..?
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Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.09.26 20:37:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Dimitri Forgroth on 26/09/2005 20:37:10
Originally by: j0sephine
"How about no... being as that what most people here are forgetting that the rax now rerquires a lot more skill point to fly."
It requires as many skill points as any other tier.3 cruiser. How's that a problem..?
It's a problem because we want this ship to be low on skill points, high on pwnage!
The ratio of time:pwnage has to to be small:large, otherwise it might actually take longer to be effective in a setup and mean we have to specialise in a ship to get better.
Originally by: DrunkenOne
Ahhh yes the ECM Apoc, very deadly.
Oh wait... wtf...
DPS Sheet |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.27 01:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Dimitri Forgroth
Originally by: j0sephine
"How about no... being as that what most people here are forgetting that the rax now rerquires a lot more skill point to fly."
It requires as many skill points as any other tier.3 cruiser. How's that a problem..?
It's a problem because we want this ship to be low on skill points, high on pwnage!
The ratio of time:pwnage has to to be small:large, otherwise it might actually take longer to be effective in a setup and mean we have to specialise in a ship to get better.
Wait this was the same argument used against the missile changes. I think I sense a pattern. 
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.09.27 01:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ravenge
Simple cruiser shouldn't require the large amounts of SP's to fly, though eve isn't like most instant gratification games such as wow (thank god.) it should have some level of gratification.. and being forced to fly ship that you don't want to because a few cry babies couldn't learn a few tactics to beat a simple rax can put people off.
Oh thats great, haven't laughed like that in ages.
Please tell me what other cruiser has over 200 DPS at 50km's when jammed? Oh and as much armour as a BS?
Sound's to me like a cry baby can't handle having to learn to actually fly, rather then using an extreme ship. Im a cruiser pilot and fly a lot of raxes. Raxes are the only cruiser that people just don't want to fight even 2:1 in other cruisers. Im talking about people with cruiser V, and near max medium gunnery skills. No raxes are not invulnerable, but you won't be winning against them with most cruisers.
Shock horror, rax pilots will now have to train medium gunnery skills like all other cruiser pilots.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
XurM
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Posted - 2005.09.27 11:41:00 -
[40]
Well, i don't know what the prob is about?
either u shoot with med guns and drones, and get u'r kill alot faster, but u can be kiled easyly becoz u ai'nt got a decent tnak.
or u put a fat-*ss tank, and let u'r drones rip...
when i fight against a rax, i use following tactic, wich i called: shoot the little ones first! (copyrighted):
1) i scramble the rax
2) if i got nos/neuts fitted, i put it on the rax ( so he can't repair/use his hardners)
3) and most important!!: I SHOOT THE DRONES FIRST!
now he's sitting there, with no drones, and only small guns becoz he needs his pg for the 1600mm plate and such...
4) time to call out u'r drones and smash trough his so-called BS- sized tank...
i do this even in me rupture.
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throbbinnoggin
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Posted - 2005.09.28 06:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Ravenge
Originally by: theRaptor
No the maller is pretty crap actually. Omen kicks its ass. If you can not see what is wrong with being able to have an uber tank and hardly drop your DPS (thanks to 8 heavy drones) then please end yourself. If the maller could fit a 1600 tank and heavy pulse then it would be overpowered.
P.S. I am a thorax pilot.
Well, first of all.. people are moaning that the mk2 maller is too good.. and that there isn't any point in flying an omen. (see the mk2 thread in ships and mods.)
next, you can fit a 1600mm plate tank (with 3 active t2 hardeners) with medium turrets.. or how about fitting a 1600mm and a 800mm with 3 x t2 active hardeners.. this will mean you will have to fit small gun, but you have the added bonus of being able to fit a medium nos. (the 1600mm with medium sized turrets you can only fit a small nos.) this gives you 8.5k of armour with resists in the upper 70's ..
Tbh i haven't heard anybody remarking about the Maller being too good. It's the ability to fit dual 1600 plates that I hear complaints about. That will be defused by the impending plate mass nerf. Also the Maller is not being buffed but nerfed by Mk2. While getting a paltry 50 grid increase it is also losing 30 cpu (base stats of Maller Mk2=900 grid, 270 cpu vs 850 grid, 300 cpu as it is on TQ). Try fitting multiple hardeners or heat sinks on it now on sisi and see how good it is.
There was imo no need to reduce cpu on the Maller. If anything it should have gotten a 100 grid boost. Even the Omen got 80. Mind you it also loses cpu, reduced from 275 to 250 cpu; another senseless nerf.
The Thorax only gets better. A Whopping 150 grid increase, and no cpu decrease. This leaves its fitting only 30cpu and '10' grid shy of a Deimos. Yes, it gets a nerfed drone bay from 200 to 100 reducing it to what? Only the 3rd largest drone bay among all T1 cruisers. At the same time, when equiped w/ medium blasters, it dishes out more firepower than any other t1 cruiser (non faction) in game.
Tbh, I'd rather see a grid increase of 100 instead of 150 to the rax, but lower fitting of neutron blasters to about 200 to compensate, maybe making them more of an option in some setups. Grid increases of 100 and 80 respectively for Maller/Omen w/o the cpu nerf.
Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
'Abraham Lincoln'
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kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.10.24 07:40:00 -
[42]
I not that in the post of proposed changes the Dev's do not mention that they are reducing the speed of the thorax by a large amount and they have greatly reduced the armour hull and shield strengths in the Mk 2 thorax.
I have tested it on on the singularity server and if implemented on tranquility I will junk my thorax as useless..
Dev's pleases note
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Denrace
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Posted - 2005.10.24 23:32:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Gwenvahar
All I want to say is, from a missioning setup, I very very much need that 1600mm plate on the rax, to have a chance of survival with the mission rats lately after the patch. Please take into account that for the battleship plate, I get armed with all frig class weapons. I haven't the awsome number of skills nessasary to fully achieve all the rax is capable of either.. Many other cruisers have a significantly easier time with level 3 missions solo than a rax has from my perspective of low skill.. Now if drones worked like drones should, then the rax could have some balance issues because of sheer effeniency improvements. If drones worked right, the common 8 pack of ogres would truly be 80% or more of your potential threat and damage output in a rax. I often feel like I am providing cover fire for the drones more than destroying targets with my small 150mm rails, modal blasters and webber. Staying in the thick of combat with cruisers and frigs so when they switch targets I can be close enuff to scoop the ogre under fire and redeploy. Thats farkin tuff work on 1.3 mill SP..
However if plate gets modified to increase mass-drag for size class diffrences that would neatly end it. The rax is fairly slow as it is, if not 1600mm, some plate will be added to the thorax so it always suffers some speed reduction. However the massive power need for the big plate seriously hruts a rax already. I don't think it needs to be nerf'd, the plate or the rax.
Level 2's are easy in a rax with only 800,000 SP.
For levels 3's, i suggest you use a battlecruiser instead if you have few SP's
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Gwenvahar
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Posted - 2005.10.25 00:16:00 -
[44]
This thread is hella old.. I must report that I have matured somewhat in my perceptions and attitude..
I have much more tollerance and understanding now.. The proposed changes will only afect my play style, i'll get used to the new reality. The caldari are gonna be far more screwed than the gallente.. +60% sig rad for equiping large shield extenders.. ouch...
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.10.25 03:34:00 -
[45]
yup CCP are slowly destroying the combat effectiveness of the calderi patch by patch - as a gal and amarr pilot i think this is a very good thing. Im not training missile skills to much and therefore its even better
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2005.10.25 15:12:00 -
[46]
Originally by: sonofollo
yup CCP are slowly destroying the combat effectiveness of the calderi patch by patch - as a gal and amarr pilot i think this is a very good thing. Im not training missile skills to much and therefore its even better
My poor harpy and ferox
And I heard the noise of thunder. And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him |
without
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Posted - 2005.10.25 16:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: sallyr
Originally by: HippoKing
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
cough a raven can
lows of damage mods mids of tank highs of power ownage
Ah, but here's the difference: the raven has a very low DPS to start, roughly half that of a mega or apoc, so it HAS to tank. (Not to mention it can't fit anywhere near as many damage mods as the mega and apoc due to having fewer lows.)
u sir are a mupit 
i am a max skilled megathron pilot, with my t2 425s i get a dmg mod of 10 and rof of 4.3sec
that is (10*48)/4.3=111dps per gun *7 = 780DPS of which i can only do kin and thermal
i have no tank to speak of
now raven with torps. 450*1.25*1.1=618dmg
with a low full of t1 dmg mods u get over 850dmg per torp
now with t2 dmg mods (they are ingame and price will drop soon to something decent) i dont know but id assume >1k dmg per torp
also aparantly you can get the rof down to about 7sec
so 6k dmg in 7sec =857DPS and you can choose which dmg type you want to throw at me
and on top of this, you can dedicate your 6 mid slots to tanking with a cap injecter, your way too uber.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.25 17:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: sallyr
Originally by: HippoKing
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
cough a raven can
lows of damage mods mids of tank highs of power ownage
Against battleships only...
A raven can now be ganked by a tech 1 cruiser if that cruiser is running 1 med rep II, 3 hardeners (kinetic, explosive, thermal), and the raven has no nos. Tech 1 cruisers tanking a battleship ftw. :P
-Wrayeth
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Henka
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Posted - 2005.10.26 08:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Wrayeth
Originally by: sallyr
Originally by: HippoKing
buhu (TM)
it CAN fit medium guns now.
u said it yourself "Now I know that Ships Aren't supposed to be able to tank and Gank at the same time."
still, i agree the vexor ought to be made better - but maybe not as uber as u say
cough a raven can
lows of damage mods mids of tank highs of power ownage
Against battleships only...
A raven can now be ganked by a tech 1 cruiser if that cruiser is running 1 med rep II, 3 hardeners (kinetic, explosive, thermal), and the raven has no nos. Tech 1 cruisers tanking a battleship ftw. :P
And that same cruiser can kill a Mega even EASIER if he just gets inside 20k (thats the range a nos has, so it's not unfair). If the mega has a nosf, well. To bad for the cruiser.
So, mega AND raven without nosf both die to a cruiser. Sure, i can kill him when he is far away but he wont even need a med repair if he gets inside 20k and starts to orbit, considering i dont have a mean ass tank at that)
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.10.26 11:51:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/10/2005 11:58:32
Edited by: Wrayeth on 26/10/2005 11:55:48
Originally by: Henka
[
And that same cruiser can kill a Mega even EASIER if he just gets inside 20k (thats the range a nos has, so it's not unfair).
Um...
You ever seen what a blasterthron will do to a cruiser, or even a HAC? Web, scramble, open fire, end. Game over. No more cruiser.
Railathron? Open fire from 50+ km. By the time the cruiser gets in range to fire back, it doesn't exist anymore.
Seriously, battleships (except caldari) OWN cruisers when firing from optimal. I locked up a cerberus the other day, webbed it, scrambled it, and not one of the shots from my tempest's dual-650mm autocannons missed. Bastard only got away because he was running WCS, like just about everyone these days. :P
Also, ask Devvon Maelstrom what it's like to have his Ishtar put halfway into armor from one volley of 1400's at 40km, or Nick Marcus why he keeps running away from my tempest every time I fight him. They'll tell you that turrets are very effective against cruisers and HACs.
-Wrayeth
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.10.26 21:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: kveldulfson
I not that in the post of proposed changes the Dev's do not mention that they are reducing the speed of the thorax by a large amount and they have greatly reduced the armour hull and shield strengths in the Mk 2 thorax.
I have tested it on on the singularity server and if implemented on tranquility I will junk my thorax as useless..
Dev's pleases note
Clearly you haven't logged onto Sisi, as this is the second time you've complained about this when the thorax, as with all other ships has; more armour, more shield, more HP and for most setups, more speed (plates no longer add a speed penaltly)
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
kveldulfson
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Posted - 2005.10.31 08:53:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: kveldulfson
I not that in the post of proposed changes the Dev's do not mention that they are reducing the speed of the thorax by a large amount and they have greatly reduced the armour hull and shield strengths in the Mk 2 thorax.
I have tested it on on the singularity server and if implemented on tranquility I will junk my thorax as useless..
Dev's pleases note
Clearly you haven't logged onto Sisi, as this is the second time you've complained about this when the thorax, as with all other ships has; more armour, more shield, more HP and for most setups, more speed (plates no longer add a speed penaltly)
Actualy I log onto the test server all the time and I was quoting the spec of the Mk2 Thorax I have been testing there. Compared to the original Thorax I also test there the new one was not nearly so good.
Presumably I will see you on Singularity at some point.
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Nelix Trist
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Posted - 2005.10.31 12:13:00 -
[53]
Personal i think the Caldari have been brought down quite a bit as i almost took out an eagle on Sisi with a Retribution, and if it wasnt for the add of an (in my opinion) over powered throax: yes i belive the thorax has become the uber Gallante Cruiser, then i would have taken an HAC out with a Assult frig.
This i think should be addressed, The Race vs Race combat. ATM i think that in turms of PVP power,
1st: Amarr
2nd: Minmatar
3rd: Gallante (tied for 2nd place)
4th: Caldari
This is just my opinion but i belive that the race vs race combat needs to be addressed
My 2 isk
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sliver 0xD
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Posted - 2005.10.31 13:12:00 -
[54]
why dont we just nerf the hole game,
every ship same setup. there we go, no complains !
the only reason the thorax is being nerfed is becouse its a formitable enemy in pvp. every elite pvper sees that the 1600mm plate and 8 heavy drones is a good setup.
but it is the idea to have difrend specialities on ever race.
and dont start crying about the thorax being one of the best, caldari has apsolutly no pvp capable cruiser that can rival another cruiser.
anyway i would hate it if ccp tells me that i trained another month into a nerfed ship. and i think many other players will see there skill training to get a thorax lost.
if the thorax gets another nerf the result will be that ammar will have the best cruiser in the game. the maller has a great armor tank and is already a great rival of the thorax.
but if i wat to have a good heavy drone based ship with good armor tank the next best thing is the ammar drone cruiser, that can handle 6 heavy drones and ahs 5 low slots witch suplys it with the same tank as the thorax.
u are gone nerf a LVL3 cruiser to the size of a LVL2 cruier or lower.
i say no to thorax nerf !
grtz,
a blackhole is,
where god divided by zero.
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