Your apology is accepted and appreciated, Mr. Tivianne; speaking generally, we are imperfect communicators, and imperfect readers. It's easy in a place so closely tied with violence and propaganda for words to be misinterpreted. Let's both take more care in the future.

I can't help but feel that most of the comments here are why the concept of peace is so unlikely.

Where did I say I was supporting death squads?

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Why do you only talk in questions? Are you aware that it's obnoxious and blurs what little point you are trying to get across?

However, it sure sounds like an apologists excuse for the existence of them. You know, "sure, there may be death squads, but the Caldari are better off under the threat of the death squads than they are under their own government".

Actually, I was questioning your arguments, hence the... you know... questions.

Sometimes I listen to people complaining that the Federation has this "holier than thou" attitude, that the Federation seems to feel that it knows what's good for people better than those people do themselves. Statements like yours make me agree with them.

Fred, perhaps the propaganda here is not entirely one-sided, eh? Also, I am a Tubekid, so it's not like the program was shut down millenia ago, is it?

Fred, 'no longer sponsored by the state' does not equate to having been cancelled. It merely indicates that these ventures have moved into the corporate world, and are run at the behest of the individual megacorporations.

I would be personally terrified if I were in the position of Caldari in Black Rise right now. My statement was to point out the logical gap in Provist and their supporters. Yes, they are directly blaming the Gallente for what has happened, yet never seem to reflect on themselves when they committed a similar atrocity about a month ago.

All's fair. One of the few redeeming points of the Summit is that we're exposed to knowledge that we may not otherwise find.

That said, surely you, as a person involved in media, understand that we can't base reports on unsubstantiated fact. While it's clear that the Provists have a somewhat questionable view of the rule of law, as indicated by the summary dismissal of a law suit against the Pyre Defense Combine, and by their arrest of a number of executives involved in a mass resignation, this is a far cry from summary execution for dissent.

I very much doubt any megacorporation would tolerate that sort of behavior against their citizens.

BloodBird; I didn't ask him to apologize. If he were to apologize after a request, it would be an empty gesture. We miscommunicated, traded several insults, and then came to realize that we had both miscommunicated. He did himself honor by apologizing, an apology which I accepted; I will freely admit culpability in this exchange, as I misread his intent as he misread mine.

I don't really see what needs comment, at this point.

Yet that's not what came out of your statement: "The average Caldari citizen is more likely to be gunned down by their own government than these rouge soldiers."

Sure, you may have been aiming your argument at the boots-n-bludgeons brigade, but that didn't come across at all. Instead, it merely sounded partisan.

You're a journalist. Shouldn't your journalistic statements be open to debate? Shouldn't they be open to questions about their veracity?

First of all, does it matter how likely it is that the average Caldari will be gunned down by one of these death squads? Does it matter how many Caldari are gunned down by them?

No it does not. Regardless of the likelyhood or death toll they are still a threat to many innocent Caldari people. Are you really casting yourself as an apologist for death squads? As if they were a reasonable and acceptable phenomenon?

I do not intend on appearing as an apologist and I apologize if my rhetoric suggest otherwise. This is not a reasonable nor acceptable phenomenon

Secondly, how many Caldari do you estimate are gunned down by the State?

I cannot give an accurate estimate due to the lack of information coming from the State.

You do know that the State has been funneling immense quantities of resources into a century-long tube-child program designed to increase the population, right?

The State no longer supports the tube child programs but corporate entities might. Regardless, these killings and executions are not intended to depopulate the State, rather rid it of those that the Provist find a potential threat to their regime.

It's worth noting that Kaalakiota is headed by Heth, and has been militant since its inception. This does not mean, however, that targeted killings occur frequently in the State. It merely confirms that at one protest, security and protestors both lost control of the situation, and people died. That executives subsequently resigned in protest shows very strongly how citizens reacted to this.

Fred, you are entirely within your rights to think that the State governs with a jackboot and an iron fist. However, it is important to remember that one should not generalize the actions of the Provists with the State generally. With luck, as Heth loses influence and power, we will be able to marginalize them, and push for a state that more accurately reflects our ideals.

Until then, such claims as you make should be backed by proof. The burden of proof always lays with the person making charges. Vague reference to news black outs and anecdotes from distant relations are not proof, as they are completely unverifiable.

I still want to pick on one nit, though, simply because I believe journalists should be held to high standards. You stated that Caldari citizens were more likely to be killed by the State than by Gallente death squads, yet you later stated that you had no information about the number of Caldari killed by the State. Isn't this a contradiction?

Fred, you have provided no additional information, despite a prodigious amount of breath spent on the subject. I'm going to have to discount your statements.

Wasn't there a statement from the Federal Navy that these killteams represented Black Ops experiments that had decided to go rogue when their funding was pulled?

That's pretty definite - as a confession of responsibility, even if not culpability for the actual atrocities.

GÇ£The Federation Navy has ended its immortal soldier program. This squadron of soldiers was officially taken off duty, but has apparently gone rogue and stolen Naval equipment to use in continued aggressive action against the Caldari. The Navy will take all appropriate action to apprehend these criminals and try them for war crimes.GÇ¥

The average Caldari citizen is more likely to be gunned down by their own government than these rouge soldiers.

Please show us your statistical analysis comparing the number of Caldari who have died at Caldari hands versus the number who have died at Gallentean hands over the last, say, ten years. This should be interesting.

A more accurate demand would be to see a statistical analysis of Caldari killed by Caldari forces versus the number of Caldari killed specifically by this rogue group since the announcement of its existence.

That would not be more accurate, that would just be selectively biased to only give you the numbers that you want to see.

That would not be more accurate, that would just be selectively biased to only give you the numbers that you want to see.

Please, return to school and obtain a legitimate education.

And by that you mean a Federation school that will teach me to only believe what the Federation wants me to. Got it.