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Maximus Hashur
n.Die
The Periphery
31
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Posted - 2013.04.15 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Im curious what everyone thinks as this pertains to cruiser tactics. ON the one hand i want the speed of a MWD on a cruiser, but on the other when i get up close im almost always scrammed anyway and not able to move when i need to.
So my question is, is it better to have an AB fit (Moa for example) that can dictate range while scrammed within 10, or a MWD fit that can rush a target fast and secure the point.
before i get a bunch of "depends on your tactics" answer i understand that some fits kite outside of 10 and an MWD is preferable. Im talking about brawling here.
Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.-á Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!! |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1276
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Posted - 2013.04.15 18:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Large Engagement Envelope: MWD
Gimmick Fits/Limited Engagement Envelope: AB |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
90
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Posted - 2013.04.15 18:28:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you can fit it, use both. Dual MWD/AB cruisers can work quite well, especially on the low sig radius cruisers such as the Stabber Fleet Issue.
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Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium
Templis Dragonaors
132
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Posted - 2013.04.15 19:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
Like all fitting advise, it depends on three variables:
1. What ship you're flying
2. What ship(s) you're fighting
3. What the environment/grid looks like
With just Moa I can't really help you. Plan on fighting kiting ships that engage at over 10km and you're close range fitted? MWD absolutely. Gate camping? Probably AB. Camping beacons or crashing into plexes? Depends on what you plan to hit I guess. Too many variables to give a solid answer tbh.
Arma Purgatorium - For the State, For the Corporation
Faction Warfare, PvP, Training
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Ynot Eyob
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
318
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Posted - 2013.04.16 11:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Andre Vauban wrote:If you can fit it, use both. Dual MWD/AB cruisers can work quite well, especially on the low sig radius cruisers such as the Stabber Fleet Issue.
Dual
Nisroc Angels
Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
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Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1639
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Posted - 2013.04.16 12:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
unless it's a 100mn, and AB has no place on a cruiser unless it's a logi boat. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
3109
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Posted - 2013.04.16 16:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ive seen several fits avail that use the 100mn AB on a cruiser or BC hull. Most give speeds above 1500m/s and should be immune to scram. The downside is the power requirements for the oversized AB. Unless cap injected most fits would run dry rather quickly, unless you were to have lets say a neutral basilisk or guardian avail to cap you up from range  .
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Diesel47
Bad Men Ltd.
598
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Posted - 2013.04.16 23:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Large Engagement Envelope: MWD
Gimmick Fits/Limited Engagement Envelope: AB
Pretty much this. |
Coiete
Interstellar Military Assistance Corporation
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.04.17 07:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:unless it's a 100mn, and AB has no place on a cruiser unless it's a logi boat.
Sig tanking armor fleets? Ahacs etc, I think in certain instances 10MN abs can be useful. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
Caldari State Capturing
377
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Posted - 2013.04.17 07:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Diesel47 wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Large Engagement Envelope: MWD
Gimmick Fits/Limited Engagement Envelope: AB Pretty much this.
Actually when you think about it No not really.......
And AB cruiser has the same ability to engage someone as a mwd cruiser if they have the weapon range/damage projection.
What it should read is ability to chase/catch/hold target and prevent them from escaping.
After all I can engage anyone within long point range in my standard fit Omen. Now if I was to swap the MWD for an AB I can still engage anyone who is within long point range, I just won't be able to keep a hold of them as they will be able to leave me behind. Engaging is not tackling.
Using an AB is certain circumstance may actually be preferable. Just because something is 'generally accepted' doesn't mean it's the best.
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
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Savnire Jacitu
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
139
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Posted - 2013.04.17 11:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
I have always been torn on this issue, but I usually say MWD just because in the end, even with scrams, you have a lot more options when pvping. I mean sometimes I'll fit up a dual web/scram BC but those are the only time I really ever use an AB.
Also see above post as well. People will tell you this or that, but really it's all about the situation.
<corrupt> |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
203
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Posted - 2013.04.17 13:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
They are both viable and there is no 'right answer' tbh, but on saying that outside of 'oddball' fits and certain cloaky shenanigans I will always fit a MWD on a ship if I'm heading out to roam 0.0. An overheated MWD gives you the inertia to close distance back to gate or to a target much quicker even if it's turned off mid-journey than AB'ing all the way.
Also burning through bubbles is bloody annoying with an AB 
In lowsec my fits are probably 50/50.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
859
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you have 4 mids or more to play with, use both!
If you have 3 or less, welcome to the neverending eve dilemma and ensuing annoyance of nearly always having the wrong one fitted at the wrong time.....
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg
Cosmic signature detected. . . . |
monkfish2345
D'reg
The Methodical Alliance
68
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Posted - 2013.04.17 14:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
the problem you have when you are trying to brawl is that the battle is usually won or lost on how quickly you can close range to your target and start applying you dps.
because of this MWD is preferable in almost all situations., the only time where it might not be is when you camping a gate or similar, because in this situation, the only deciding factor is weather you can tackle before they escape. at this point the AB is preferable because you can dictate the range of the fight, and you do not have all of the drawbacks of MWD.
Dual prop is viable in some ships, but generally speaking you need to make a decision about what situations you plan to engage in, and from that decide if you will the speed to close range, or the ability to dictate once your target is caught.
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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
550
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Posted - 2013.04.17 19:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
the thing I hate about MWD is the 500% signature bloom. This makes you insanely easy to hit. If you are attempting to sig tank you can not use a MWD. A otherwise samll frigate like say the punisher has a signature radius of only 37m. nano'd it can be hard to lock and hit. But with an active 1MN MWD II it has a signature radius of over 200 making it easier to target an hit than most cruisers. AB's give less speed, but are more effective due to not having a sig bloom. A 10MN AB is not that difficult to fit, and is far more effective than a 1MN MWD as you get great speed with no sig bloom. |
YoYoMommy
Aideron Robotics
0
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Posted - 2013.04.19 06:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
MWDs do increase your sig radius but if you are outside their optimal+falloff or just outside the optimal then it doesn't matter if you are an AB or MWD since they can't hit you anyway. So if you can stay outside that range easier with an MWD then do that as long as your optimal is longer than theirs. If you are a brawling and you are all in the same optimal do what X Gal said. |
Zyress
Weapons of Divine Temper
136
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Posted - 2013.04.19 18:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:unless it's a 100mn, and AB has no place on a cruiser unless it's a logi boat.
I find 100mn aftbrnr cruisers to take a very long time to reach that top speed and a very long time to turn I doubt you could orbit within 10 km. On the other hand some cruisers particularly Armor cruisers like the Thorax for example do fit dual prop mwd and aftrbrnr quite well. Shield cruisers usually choose tank and ewar over dual propping. |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
752
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Posted - 2013.04.19 19:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Muad 'dib wrote:If you have 4 mids or more to play with, use both!
If you have 3 or less, welcome to the neverending eve dilemma and ensuing annoyance of nearly always having the wrong one fitted at the wrong time.....
In considering dualprop vs MWD and web,
An AB will give you about the same relative speed advantage over your opponent as a web will. If he has a web and you have an AB, you'll both be moving at about base speed (Assuming he's scrammed). If you both have webs, you'll both be moving at relatively about the same near-zero speed.
I'd say an AB is better if
a) You have the PG and
b) You are faster than your opponent, and thus the fact that both of you are moving faster works to your advantage. |
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