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Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
113
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 13:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cause they have to SUCK UP all that ore!
Get it guys?
They SUCK... ore? Like a space vacuum? That sucks? Get it? |

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
549
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 14:45:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ormand Antollare wrote:Hey guys. I am a relatively new player. About 3 months old. Anyways I spent freaking 40 days to get into this mackinaw. That's almost half the time I've even been around. And what do I get? 7,000 bigger ore hold. THAT'S IT. It says that the two strip miners can actually do the work of three, which it should, BUT IT DOESN'T. My yield is exactly the same as if I was using a retriever. It's literally exactly the same ship except with a bigger ore hold. How does that make it worth it? Instead of selling my load for about 4 mil it was 5.3 mil. Big whoop. I mean, it took a little bit longer to fill too.
I am extremely disappointed and confused. It seems like there should be a bigger yield bonus associated with it. The degree to which it's better is so miniscule. So what was that 40 days and 200 mil for? The retriever only takes 4 days, and like I dunno, 30 mil or so? Maybe 40 including fittings? Something is wrong. If I gotta do like 10 times the amount of training time and freaking 7 or whatever times the cost, then why only a tiny improvement? The Mackinaw is the same ship as a retriever, it is just the T2 version. T2 doesn't mean way bigger yield. Although the Mackinaw does get a 1% per level exhummer bonus the retriever does not. What a T2 Mackinaw does get over its T1 counterpart is better tank, more mid slots, a bigger ore hold, and a slight yield increase. The HULK is the big yield exhummer. it gets +3% per level on mining barge skill plus a +3% per level on exhummers skill. So with mining barge and exhummers skills at 5 the HULK gets 30% increase over base yield while the Mackinaw only gets 5% increase over base yield. Base yield being the same for all mining ships.
Yield of the Mackinaw and Skiff is the same. both only have a 1% per level of exhummers skill to yield. The mackinaw has the big ore hold, while the Skiff has the big tank. Their T1 counter parts the retriever and procurer fit the same roles, just slightly lower specs. What ever mining ship you fly if you have mining barge 5 and only exhummers 1 you will see very little difference between the T1 and T2 ships. But once you have exhummers trained to 4 or 5 you will see a significant difference. The differences become even bigger when you add on a maxed ORCA boost. mining is designed to be a fleet operation, solo mining without boosts produces very little income.
A solo Mackinaw even with maxed skills should bring in 15-17M/hr at best, while a max skilled HULK with maxed ORCA boost can bring in well over 30M/hr. Not a lot of isk considering you can easily make 60M/hr running level 4 missions, but considering how easily mining scales, and how easy is is to solo run a multiple account mining fleet, with several accounts mining becomes more profitable than mission running as running multiple accounts mission running does not scale very well past 2-3 accounts. |

Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1388
|
Posted - 2013.04.17 15:11:00 -
[33] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:Cause they have to SUCK UP all that ore!
Get it guys?
They SUCK... ore? Like a space vacuum? That sucks? Get it?
Don't quit your day job.
@ OP -- sounds like your problem is comparing a max skills retriever (or close enough) to base-skills mackinaw. The other people have shown very well where your mistakes have been made.
One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |

Aldebaran Aubaris
Free-lances
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 11:43:00 -
[34] - Quote
So sell it and fly your Retriever.
It's not like you bought a false advertised piece of equipment, everything a Mack is capable of is well documented, yet you manage to continue to find fault in everything and everyone else but yourself while maintaining a claim of higher intelligence the whole time .
|

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 12:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
Exhumers and barges definitely dont suck. Take those with some friends (or solo) to a LS belt and have some fun for a change...you will mine a little slower, but killing exhumers or being bait for a small gang is even more interesting...
[Procurer, Procurer Surprise]
Reinforced Bulkheads II Damage Control II
Passive Targeter II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Scordite Mining Crystal II
Medium Drone Durability Enhancer I Medium Drone Durability Enhancer I Medium Drone Durability Enhancer I
Warrior II x5
DPS: 80.4 from 5 warrior IIs. EHP: 44.200, 21.484 @hull with 60% resists. SPEED: 100ms with 9.45s align. CAPACITOR: Stable TARGETING: Passive targeting at 28.1km with a scan res of 825mm. COST: About 30mil rigged.
Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65634-Procurer-Surprise.html#ixzz2SKFkLlmG
[Skiff, Skiff Surprise]
Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Medium Shield Booster II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Drone Durability Enhancer I Medium Drone Durability Enhancer I
Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5
DPS: 122 from 5 hob IIs, 98.9 from 5 warrior IIs. EHP: 61.228 omni RESISTS: 54.1/63.2/72.4/77.0 cold, 58.0/66.4/74.8/79.0 hot TANK: omni 32.5 HPs passive, 90.1/127.5 HPs active, 112.6/163.1 combined. SPEED: 250ms with 9.36s align. CAPACITOR: Stable without booster, 2m50s all running TARGETING: 28.1km with a scan res of 825mm. COST: About 130mil rigged.
Read more: http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65670-Skiff-Surprise.html#ixzz2SKG9KYF1 |

Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
122
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 14:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
what on earth is that procurer fit, it makes my eyes bleed O.O |

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
196
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 15:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
I think it looks clearer if it's illustrated:
http://i.imgur.com/aaJd7PK.png thhief ghabmoef |

Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 16:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ormand Antollare wrote:That's a uniquely disrespectful comment, you reprehensible psuedo-intellectual hard-ass loser. I feel some pity for you eve players whose lives are so pathetic that they feel the need to be hard on good people like me. I'm sorry your expectations in life have fallen short so many times that you take pleasure in trying to make me feel the same. I, on the other hand, have the character, good nature, and enough sheer success in life not to display this pitiful character flaw.
To those who where helpful, kudos for not being transformed into a malevolent basement-dwelling cretin.
As somebody with some REAL intelligence, (I don't just think I'm smart, I actually am) I don't entirely agree with this game mechanic. The price and sheer time invested are not reflected by the actual gain/return. If I manage to get the money to buy a Ferrari, it would not be right for me to receive only a slightly better honda civic. (With a different paint job) In this case nobody would want to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars for only a slight upgrade. There is no actual need for the game to be this way. Games are fair because the rules are consistent from player to player.
If I spend 10 times more money and time on improving my tennis game than somebody else, for instance, Then I should expect to be about 10 times better, not 14% better. That's not how real life works; that's not how ANYTHING works. One more example. If I buy a handgun and somebody else spends 10 times more on a state-of-the-art assault rifle, I should expect to be blown the hell away in a gunfight between us! You get what you pay foe in life.
Yeah I already know what you miserable bastards are going to say: "If you don't like it, then quit." Yeah maybe I don't and maybe I will, but not necessarily because I am wrong and the game is right. But simply because I ******* disagree with the mechanics of this game. I will miss some of the lovely people on here but there are certainly many of you who I will not miss.
It's at this point that I call....
TROLL
It's either that or a uniquely disrespectful, reprehensible pseudo-intellectual smart-ass idiot with zero grasp on reality. |

Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 15:51:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:what on earth is that procurer fit, it makes my eyes bleed O.O
That Procurer fit is actually a very nice bait/solo ship in LS. Check this out... http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=264362&view=ships_weapons&m=1&y=2013
XD |

Solderan
Intergalactic Combined Technologies
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 00:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Im a long time miner. Dont bother with exhumers until you have at least exhumers 3 preferably 5 and you can use t2 modulated strip miners with the appropriate mining crystal. Dont bother solo mining in a hulk unless your botting (which I dont endorse) Dont bother solo mining for money unless you can dedicate multiple accounts its time/reward ratio is not worth it. When I mined I had 3 characters in hulks and one running an orca. Eventually it just wasn't profitable enough and I decided to spend the extra money on those accounts buying plex instead. Hulks and other exhumers get their best results in a fleet with a fleet boosting orca that can act as a deposit for your ore. When you can consistently mine for hours without leaving the belt because you have an orca that never needs to move because you have the mining range boost form the orca an extra 14% means a helluva lot more then when your warping back to station every 3 minutes to drop your cargo. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
509
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 06:03:00 -
[41] - Quote
OP you aren't going to win this. The few of us who can see the obvious truth, which is that Exhumers are woefully underpowered in comparison to their barge counterparts, are greatly outnumbered by people who think that 1% extra yield per level on the Mackinaw makes all the difference in the world.
It is true that the Mackinaw's 2 strips do the work of 3, same with the Retriever though. Supposedly Exhumers are supposed to have significantly higher output but they don't. Hulk yields at most 15% more ore than a Covetor, Mackinaw has about the same yield as a Retriever and slightly more storage space, only real difference is tank and that mostly counts on the Procurer/Skiff - which not very many people fly because the other barges have enough EHP for highsec, and lowsec isn't worth mining in (yet).
The Covetor and Hulk are supposed to be the high-yield barges but they are only flown by people who are bad at math or people who have ORCA support. The tiny yield increase is outweighed by the extra time spent hauling the ore.
Here's the yield amounts at skill V, with 1 being equal to an unaltered strip miner:
Procurer: 3 Retriever: 3 Covetor: 3.6 Skiff: 3.15 Mackinaw: 3.15 Hulk: 3.9675
Yep, Hulk mines 32.25% faster than a Procurer, but holds less, and has less EHP, takes higher skills and costs a whole lot more. Fit a warfare link to your tech 1 battlecruiser. Train Wing Commander. Get in the Squad Commander or Wing Commander position. Your fleets will be superior to everyone else's. |

Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 11:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ormand Antollare wrote:That's a uniquely disrespectful comment, you reprehensible psuedo-intellectual hard-ass loser. I feel some pity for you eve players whose lives are so pathetic that they feel the need to be hard on good people like me. I'm sorry your expectations in life have fallen short so many times that you take pleasure in trying to make me feel the same. I, on the other hand, have the character, good nature, and enough sheer success in life not to display this pitiful character flaw.
To those who where helpful, kudos for not being transformed into a malevolent basement-dwelling cretin.
As somebody with some REAL intelligence, (I don't just think I'm smart, I actually am) I don't entirely agree with this game mechanic. The price and sheer time invested are not reflected by the actual gain/return. If I manage to get the money to buy a Ferrari, it would not be right for me to receive only a slightly better honda civic. (With a different paint job) In this case nobody would want to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars for only a slight upgrade. There is no actual need for the game to be this way. Games are fair because the rules are consistent from player to player.
If I spend 10 times more money and time on improving my tennis game than somebody else, for instance, Then I should expect to be about 10 times better, not 14% better. That's not how real life works; that's not how ANYTHING works. One more example. If I buy a handgun and somebody else spends 10 times more on a state-of-the-art assault rifle, I should expect to be blown the hell away in a gunfight between us! You get what you pay foe in life.
Yeah I already know what you miserable bastards are going to say: "If you don't like it, then quit." Yeah maybe I don't and maybe I will, but not necessarily because I am wrong and the game is right. But simply because I ******* disagree with the mechanics of this game. I will miss some of the lovely people on here but there are certainly many of you who I will not miss.
I've heard legend tell of an infection called Bittervet ... its true origin remains a mystery to noobs like us - perhaps after many years of space-toil we shall come to appreciate the idiocy that we beget. Until then, I will be appreciating this hella-cool universe that is EVE and thanking my lucky stars that it is, at least, not World of Warcraft or Tetris. Although ... as they say in the biz: Consider this, you are asking people who have no dog in the fight to help you. Asking for the advice of the unconcerned will only ever get you so far ... I think that's how the quote goes ...
If you want to start a truly meaningful conversation join a Corp and mention Bacon, Rum or Nipples in chat... enjoy yourself and try not to take the criticism or let bittervet weasel you out of an otherwise amazing interactive experience. Also, if you want to fleet mine sometime add me and we can shoot rocks in hi-sec together YKYMFer!!
Also, if you got your "money's worth" for every ever ship/skill upgrade new players like us would never stand a chance ... EVE just turned 10yrs old a short while ago ... consider the long-term arc of that game mechanic - EVE would be dead by now. |

Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2565
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 18:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ormand Antollare wrote: If I spend 10 times more money and time on improving my tennis game than somebody else, for instance, Then I should expect to be about 10 times better, not 14% better.
This I think illustrates how little 'Real' intelligence you used before you typed this ****. And by your hurf-blurf automobile argument, a million dollar car should go a 100 times faster than a 10K dollar car? You are of very pitiful mental faculties and I doubt if you are at all successful in real life with that 'superior' intellect of yours. Maybe you make a living from stealing from old women, i don't know. You should just go away from Eve. In this case, Eve will actually stand to gain something with your departure. Take your friends along too, if you have any that is. |

Mavnas
The Scope Gallente Federation
42
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 20:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Ormand Antollare wrote:Do you guys believe in mining drones? I prefer mining asteroids. Sorry, that was truly bad...
Yeah, they nerfed rogue drone mining some time ago  |
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