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Gravedancer
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:29:00 -
[1]
taken from the patch forum...
"If you have recently initiated aggression against someone stargates and stations will refuse to allow you to jump and dock respectively, once aggression has ceased between the two parties for a period of time, usage will be allowed again."
Looks like gate camping pirates are going to have a lot more trouble running when the bigger fleets arrive to challenge them.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:32:00 -
[2]
Wow, That rox. Was just thinking this afternoon, taht would be the answer to a lot of the pvp problems within this game, too many easy ways to escape.
Nice idea, dont see any large cons to it, and the pros are fairly obvious.
Of course, can be used against you and for you just as much, but thats all part of the fun :)
Now they need to make it so you cant just warp to planet, and log off. Maybe 5 mins left in space b4 server discos you?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:33:00 -
[3]
ok so lets just logically examine this.
The new mwd changes mean no mwding out of a warp, so no instant turbo speed of 1.5km/s.
Meaning more kills for pirates.
Second big change is this gate stuff.
So I am a big bad pirate sat at a gate, allalala killing stuff. When suddenly a HUGE fleet warps into local hmmm gee thats great I think i'll just attack them - OMG YEAH RIGHT HONEST..
Jeez, this patch is BETTER for pirates.. just think about it.
How many times do fleets get together to push pirates off gates, maybe once or twice a month. How many people mwd past me at gates daily 20-50.
WOW YEAH DEFINITE ANTI PIRATE PATCH THERE OMG WOW!
Stav
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"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:38:00 -
[4]
IMHO this patch suxxor big time... but no panic, let's stay positive and watch how it comes :)
"We will adapt" (tm) The Borgs
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:38:00 -
[5]
hmm.
fair points. But surel its the aggressor that wont be able to use the gate?
So
If You the Pirate is camping, and have fired in that area upon anyone recently (time to be set by devs), then you cant use gate, but a target you have open fired upon, can use gate, as long sas they havent fired back or aggressed back at you. Thus if and when anyone arrives to break blockade, your avenues for retreat are cut off, but still the MWD guys can run your gate camp as normal?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:40:00 -
[6]
Stavros, I don't see how this favours a pirate in any way tbh.
Although it will cause a lot more pvp, especially if the cut to a planet and log off is somehow nerfed, should be great.
Is this in effect in 0.0 aswell?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:41:00 -
[7]
Ahh but (thinking as I type, so please ignore the bs)
A pirate being bounty hunted in any space, will be free to use gate as long as he deosnt return fire, and his hunters will not.
Maybe Sec Rating should have a bearing?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Captin Zed
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:43:00 -
[8]
These sound like some fair changes on the way. Should make it not quite so easy to run away after ganking ships at jump gates.
If you can't use the jump gates or dock in any stations I think that this could lead to some more effective hunting in the roid belts.
Can't wait to see how MR 'So I am a big bad pirate sat at a gate, allalala killing stuff' deals with a fleet warping in and knowing he can't dock or gate out for 10 mins :)
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. |
Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:51:00 -
[9]
I sense a new career path in the making: The bait.
The bait's (who will undoubtedly be an alt. character in most cases) only purpose is to bug/tempt/dare pirates to shoot at it. Pirates that aren't watching the map for pilots in space (and updating often) will shoot at it, be caught, and then have to face superior numbers.
IMO, that's a good thing, for the most part. It means that you can actually bring superior numbers to bear for the first time.
I also like the "no modules activated in warp" bit. Makes things interesting.
Question is...will the result of these changes be wimpier pirates (never firing unless they are sure no amount of ships is close by), or more bounties collected?
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:51:00 -
[10]
 Quote:
Can't wait to see how MR 'So I am a big bad pirate sat at a gate, allalala killing stuff' deals with a fleet warping in and knowing he can't dock or gate out for 10 mins :)
By warping to some bookmarked empty corner of space ?
Anyway when someone warp in, you have about 10 seconds to react before they can do anything.
10 seconds = smoke a cigaret, pet the cat, go get a cold drink, and activate warp drive.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:52:00 -
[11]
I think its a stupid idea. Inability to warp or jump gates should come down to a ship module preventing it, in conjunction with an appropriate skill. How this is implemented I don't know, im not a dev, but screwing with game mechanics is not the way forward for this problem. I await the abuse...:)
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Dead
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Beringe on 29/07/2003 15:53:43
Quote:
By warping to some bookmarked empty corner of space ?
Still, that doesn't get you out of the system, and requires a bit more effort than simply clicking 'jump'.
Perhaps it will lead to some exciting chases...how many bookmarks can the pirate have in a single system?
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:55:00 -
[13]
Maybe this could co incide with some sort of Target and Follow Module?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 17:27:00 -
[14]
I agree with stavros, pirates will do better out of this than most potential victims.
Although some good tactics will come into play.
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.07.29 17:48:00 -
[15]
It all depends quite a lot on what the actual timing on the non-stargate use is though, doesn't it?
Redundancy |
Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:00:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 29/07/2003 18:01:12
I think one thing that is going to help blockades (and hurt the blockade runners) is that you can't activate modules in warp anymore. No more activating MWD and coming out at full speed.
I also was discussing over on the patch forum... Maybe escorting will be more viable now (assuming the escort fleet has enough firepower) The blockaders can choose to try to engage (and then not be able to jump) or they can let the fleet though. Same goes for the escorts... Do they want to engage the blockading fleet? Don't know. Maybe I'll try testing on Chaos some before the next patch.
Not being able to dock should be nice--no docking to get full shield, cap, and repair, and come back and fight. At least gives you a chance of something more than just a standoff if you engage forces near a station.
Will be fun trying it out.
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RazorDreamz
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:08:00 -
[17]
Heres a scenario:
Pirate Camps gate.
Task force goes to gate to kill pirate.
Task force shoots at pirate.
Pirate does not shoot but instead jumps.
Task force cannot follow for 2 minutes...
Hmmm, still lacks something don't you think? 
---------------------------------------
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m |
Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:14:00 -
[18]
RazorDreamz, Yeah... Now you can't pursue if you start shooting--doesn't help if you are out to kill the blockaders instead of just running them off (like you can do now).
I like the station docking change a bit more than the gates. Now you have a stand off at the gates with people just looking at each other. 
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Crimsonjade
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:43:00 -
[19]
I may be wrong... but lets break down Gravedancers quote...
It said once the aggression clears between the TWO parties then they can dock/jump/etc. This may mean that whoever gets attacked will not be able to jump or dock as well as the person who initiated the attack.
What does this mean for blockade runners? They will not be able to use the MWD trick to fly by, they will not be able to jump while being shot at, and pirates will have a much easier time camping gates.
*sarcasm on*
Oh no! You mean we have to start hiring escorts? You mean I cannot make millions per day off trade runs? Damn I guess I better quit until CCP nerfs the pirates again!
*sarcasm off*
Looking away from the pirate scene... this patch is great for large scale battles. I hate that fleets always play hit and run with each other via stations and jumpgates. Now the commanders will have to grow a pair and commit their force to some action. Great job CCP!
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:44:00 -
[20]
Actually I see this as a pirate helper as well.
Basically if you don't have BMs to the gate or it's not a good warp in spot you're screwed.
I guess I ought to start making the 20 billion BMs that will be required for safe passage now, ugh.
Just wait there will be a bug where shooting at NPCs will also set this timer. You'll jump to a BM near a gate and try to jump and be stranded next to 3 BS's built for war.
As for activating modules in warp this is going to slow the game down even more. Having to restart 4 ABs on an indy every warp made. Restarting Optical trackers, sensor boosters after every warp. Blah.
Just think about how retarded it will be to make long journeys using MWD. A 25 jump trip will go from about 30-40min to at least 60.
Screw that. A bad solution is one that makes 95% of the game worse while making 5% (and only for pirates) better.
So player missions will also take longer now as well.
God help you if you get a little laggy coming out of warp and modules don't respond instantly (which never happens btw). Good luck to all those who suffer from rubberbanding as well.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:47:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Actually I see this as a pirate helper as well.
Basically if you don't have BMs to the gate or it's not a good warp in spot you're screwed.
I guess I ought to start making the 20 billion BMs that will be required for safe passage now, ugh.
Just wait there will be a bug where shooting at NPCs will also set this timer. You'll jump to a BM near a gate and try to jump and be stranded next to 3 BS's built for war.
As for activating modules in warp this is going to slow the game down even more. Having to restart 4 ABs on an indy every warp made. Restarting Optical trackers, sensor boosters after every warp. Blah.
Just think about how retarded it will be to make long journeys using MWD. A 25 jump trip will go from about 30-40min to at least 60.
Screw that. A bad solution is one that makes 95% of the game worse while making 5% (and only for pirates) better.
So player missions will also take longer now as well.
God help you if you get a little laggy coming out of warp and modules don't respond instantly (which never happens btw). Good luck to all those who suffer from rubberbanding as well.
But this is what everyone has been asking for, nay, demanding.
as for the no MWD out of warp, That's how it was when I first started playing, and I was fine with it. People have just been spoilt :)
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Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:01:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 29/07/2003 19:04:48
@Crimsonjade
The way the notes are worded I guess it go either way. "between aggressors" could mean both are shooting or it could mean one shooting, the other just being shot at. Guess we need to try it on Chaos before TQ. I think blockade runners are already going to have a hard time not being able to activate MWD in warp...
@Fusco T
When I first read your post I read "BMs to the gate" as "BMs at the gate"... Some m0o blockades may have caused a few BMs and changing of underwear at the gate... lol. But yeah bookmarks are going to be even more important now. Time to start sneaking around and making some good ones.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:18:00 -
[23]
"BMs at the gate" Amen to that :)
As I see it the game is like 90% travel and what they are essentially doing directly or indirectly is nerfing that with the mods during warp change"
There simply has to be a better solution than "nerf".
I hope at the same time they implement this "no jump/dock" they at least give an individual a timer he can check without having to actually dock/jump or attempt to.
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:27:00 -
[24]
I think your missin the point.
"once aggression has ceased between the two parties for a period of time"
Now, according to that statement, neither parties can jump. Seems like, if infact that is correct, then it will make more business for us pirates.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:32:00 -
[25]
I can see traders, carebears, and n00bs complaining about this A LOT.
Like Crimsonjade said, this will make wars more commited - no more lock'n'dock tactics.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:38:00 -
[26]
Are we really sure that the non-agressor will be prevented from warping too?
Not wanting to sound TOO much like a carebear, this sounds terribly balanced in favour of blockade-style pirating - anyone warping into a blockade will be penalised for being passive....
I don't really think the "unable to MWD out of warp" will be an issue - just activate it ASAP and you're still going hella fast.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 29/07/2003 19:42:04
//this will make wars more commited - no more lock'n'dock tactics//
I'm afraid not, if the camping side feel presure, they always can just warp to the middle of nowhere. The guy camping at gate has the advantage for about 10s, enough to make decision and start plan.
1136 only makes piracy much easier.
joshua, active mwd after warp = start from basic speed, so anyone web you = you move at webed speed.
active mwd before out of warp = start from max speed, web you = slowly decrease your speed from max,
that's a huge difference
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:40:00 -
[28]
The only thing I can see this doing is:
whoever has the warp scrambler on, is gonna be the first dead one.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:44:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Are we really sure that the non-agressor will be prevented from warping too?
Not wanting to sound TOO much like a carebear, this sounds terribly balanced in favour of blockade-style pirating - anyone warping into a blockade will be penalised for being passive....
I don't really think the "unable to MWD out of warp" will be an issue - just activate it ASAP and you're still going hella fast.
still not fast enough to avoid a ganking 
I'm not sure passive people will be blocked, and we also don't know how long they will be blocked for, a time has not yet been mentioned...
intriugiyiiing, I dare say...
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:47:00 -
[30]
I can't wait for a npc pirate to fire on a indy while the guy is afk and can't jump. So he sits there till the lil 1k isk bounty pirate kills him :)
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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