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Gravedancer
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:29:00 -
[1]
taken from the patch forum...
"If you have recently initiated aggression against someone stargates and stations will refuse to allow you to jump and dock respectively, once aggression has ceased between the two parties for a period of time, usage will be allowed again."
Looks like gate camping pirates are going to have a lot more trouble running when the bigger fleets arrive to challenge them.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:32:00 -
[2]
Wow, That rox. Was just thinking this afternoon, taht would be the answer to a lot of the pvp problems within this game, too many easy ways to escape.
Nice idea, dont see any large cons to it, and the pros are fairly obvious.
Of course, can be used against you and for you just as much, but thats all part of the fun :)
Now they need to make it so you cant just warp to planet, and log off. Maybe 5 mins left in space b4 server discos you?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Stavros
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:33:00 -
[3]
ok so lets just logically examine this.
The new mwd changes mean no mwding out of a warp, so no instant turbo speed of 1.5km/s.
Meaning more kills for pirates.
Second big change is this gate stuff.
So I am a big bad pirate sat at a gate, allalala killing stuff. When suddenly a HUGE fleet warps into local hmmm gee thats great I think i'll just attack them - OMG YEAH RIGHT HONEST..
Jeez, this patch is BETTER for pirates.. just think about it.
How many times do fleets get together to push pirates off gates, maybe once or twice a month. How many people mwd past me at gates daily 20-50.
WOW YEAH DEFINITE ANTI PIRATE PATCH THERE OMG WOW!
Stav
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:38:00 -
[4]
IMHO this patch suxxor big time... but no panic, let's stay positive and watch how it comes :)
"We will adapt" (tm) The Borgs
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:38:00 -
[5]
hmm.
fair points. But surel its the aggressor that wont be able to use the gate?
So
If You the Pirate is camping, and have fired in that area upon anyone recently (time to be set by devs), then you cant use gate, but a target you have open fired upon, can use gate, as long sas they havent fired back or aggressed back at you. Thus if and when anyone arrives to break blockade, your avenues for retreat are cut off, but still the MWD guys can run your gate camp as normal?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:40:00 -
[6]
Stavros, I don't see how this favours a pirate in any way tbh.
Although it will cause a lot more pvp, especially if the cut to a planet and log off is somehow nerfed, should be great.
Is this in effect in 0.0 aswell?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:41:00 -
[7]
Ahh but (thinking as I type, so please ignore the bs)
A pirate being bounty hunted in any space, will be free to use gate as long as he deosnt return fire, and his hunters will not.
Maybe Sec Rating should have a bearing?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Captin Zed
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:43:00 -
[8]
These sound like some fair changes on the way. Should make it not quite so easy to run away after ganking ships at jump gates.
If you can't use the jump gates or dock in any stations I think that this could lead to some more effective hunting in the roid belts.
Can't wait to see how MR 'So I am a big bad pirate sat at a gate, allalala killing stuff' deals with a fleet warping in and knowing he can't dock or gate out for 10 mins :)
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome. |
Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:51:00 -
[9]
I sense a new career path in the making: The bait.
The bait's (who will undoubtedly be an alt. character in most cases) only purpose is to bug/tempt/dare pirates to shoot at it. Pirates that aren't watching the map for pilots in space (and updating often) will shoot at it, be caught, and then have to face superior numbers.
IMO, that's a good thing, for the most part. It means that you can actually bring superior numbers to bear for the first time.
I also like the "no modules activated in warp" bit. Makes things interesting.
Question is...will the result of these changes be wimpier pirates (never firing unless they are sure no amount of ships is close by), or more bounties collected?
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:51:00 -
[10]
 Quote:
Can't wait to see how MR 'So I am a big bad pirate sat at a gate, allalala killing stuff' deals with a fleet warping in and knowing he can't dock or gate out for 10 mins :)
By warping to some bookmarked empty corner of space ?
Anyway when someone warp in, you have about 10 seconds to react before they can do anything.
10 seconds = smoke a cigaret, pet the cat, go get a cold drink, and activate warp drive.
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Miso
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:52:00 -
[11]
I think its a stupid idea. Inability to warp or jump gates should come down to a ship module preventing it, in conjunction with an appropriate skill. How this is implemented I don't know, im not a dev, but screwing with game mechanics is not the way forward for this problem. I await the abuse...:)
--------------------------------------------
Dead
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:53:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Beringe on 29/07/2003 15:53:43
Quote:
By warping to some bookmarked empty corner of space ?
Still, that doesn't get you out of the system, and requires a bit more effort than simply clicking 'jump'.
Perhaps it will lead to some exciting chases...how many bookmarks can the pirate have in a single system?
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2003.07.29 15:55:00 -
[13]
Maybe this could co incide with some sort of Target and Follow Module?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 17:27:00 -
[14]
I agree with stavros, pirates will do better out of this than most potential victims.
Although some good tactics will come into play.
.
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.07.29 17:48:00 -
[15]
It all depends quite a lot on what the actual timing on the non-stargate use is though, doesn't it?
Redundancy |
Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:00:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 29/07/2003 18:01:12
I think one thing that is going to help blockades (and hurt the blockade runners) is that you can't activate modules in warp anymore. No more activating MWD and coming out at full speed.
I also was discussing over on the patch forum... Maybe escorting will be more viable now (assuming the escort fleet has enough firepower) The blockaders can choose to try to engage (and then not be able to jump) or they can let the fleet though. Same goes for the escorts... Do they want to engage the blockading fleet? Don't know. Maybe I'll try testing on Chaos some before the next patch.
Not being able to dock should be nice--no docking to get full shield, cap, and repair, and come back and fight. At least gives you a chance of something more than just a standoff if you engage forces near a station.
Will be fun trying it out.
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RazorDreamz
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:08:00 -
[17]
Heres a scenario:
Pirate Camps gate.
Task force goes to gate to kill pirate.
Task force shoots at pirate.
Pirate does not shoot but instead jumps.
Task force cannot follow for 2 minutes...
Hmmm, still lacks something don't you think? 
---------------------------------------
CSM Chat Log September 25, 2003:
Fuhry> Some things we simply cannot test, and therefore we just put it on Tranq. cross our fingers and then get into panic m |
Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:14:00 -
[18]
RazorDreamz, Yeah... Now you can't pursue if you start shooting--doesn't help if you are out to kill the blockaders instead of just running them off (like you can do now).
I like the station docking change a bit more than the gates. Now you have a stand off at the gates with people just looking at each other. 
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Crimsonjade
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:43:00 -
[19]
I may be wrong... but lets break down Gravedancers quote...
It said once the aggression clears between the TWO parties then they can dock/jump/etc. This may mean that whoever gets attacked will not be able to jump or dock as well as the person who initiated the attack.
What does this mean for blockade runners? They will not be able to use the MWD trick to fly by, they will not be able to jump while being shot at, and pirates will have a much easier time camping gates.
*sarcasm on*
Oh no! You mean we have to start hiring escorts? You mean I cannot make millions per day off trade runs? Damn I guess I better quit until CCP nerfs the pirates again!
*sarcasm off*
Looking away from the pirate scene... this patch is great for large scale battles. I hate that fleets always play hit and run with each other via stations and jumpgates. Now the commanders will have to grow a pair and commit their force to some action. Great job CCP!
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:44:00 -
[20]
Actually I see this as a pirate helper as well.
Basically if you don't have BMs to the gate or it's not a good warp in spot you're screwed.
I guess I ought to start making the 20 billion BMs that will be required for safe passage now, ugh.
Just wait there will be a bug where shooting at NPCs will also set this timer. You'll jump to a BM near a gate and try to jump and be stranded next to 3 BS's built for war.
As for activating modules in warp this is going to slow the game down even more. Having to restart 4 ABs on an indy every warp made. Restarting Optical trackers, sensor boosters after every warp. Blah.
Just think about how retarded it will be to make long journeys using MWD. A 25 jump trip will go from about 30-40min to at least 60.
Screw that. A bad solution is one that makes 95% of the game worse while making 5% (and only for pirates) better.
So player missions will also take longer now as well.
God help you if you get a little laggy coming out of warp and modules don't respond instantly (which never happens btw). Good luck to all those who suffer from rubberbanding as well.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 18:47:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Actually I see this as a pirate helper as well.
Basically if you don't have BMs to the gate or it's not a good warp in spot you're screwed.
I guess I ought to start making the 20 billion BMs that will be required for safe passage now, ugh.
Just wait there will be a bug where shooting at NPCs will also set this timer. You'll jump to a BM near a gate and try to jump and be stranded next to 3 BS's built for war.
As for activating modules in warp this is going to slow the game down even more. Having to restart 4 ABs on an indy every warp made. Restarting Optical trackers, sensor boosters after every warp. Blah.
Just think about how retarded it will be to make long journeys using MWD. A 25 jump trip will go from about 30-40min to at least 60.
Screw that. A bad solution is one that makes 95% of the game worse while making 5% (and only for pirates) better.
So player missions will also take longer now as well.
God help you if you get a little laggy coming out of warp and modules don't respond instantly (which never happens btw). Good luck to all those who suffer from rubberbanding as well.
But this is what everyone has been asking for, nay, demanding.
as for the no MWD out of warp, That's how it was when I first started playing, and I was fine with it. People have just been spoilt :)
.
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Hikaru Okuda
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:01:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Hikaru Okuda on 29/07/2003 19:04:48
@Crimsonjade
The way the notes are worded I guess it go either way. "between aggressors" could mean both are shooting or it could mean one shooting, the other just being shot at. Guess we need to try it on Chaos before TQ. I think blockade runners are already going to have a hard time not being able to activate MWD in warp...
@Fusco T
When I first read your post I read "BMs to the gate" as "BMs at the gate"... Some m0o blockades may have caused a few BMs and changing of underwear at the gate... lol. But yeah bookmarks are going to be even more important now. Time to start sneaking around and making some good ones.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:18:00 -
[23]
"BMs at the gate" Amen to that :)
As I see it the game is like 90% travel and what they are essentially doing directly or indirectly is nerfing that with the mods during warp change"
There simply has to be a better solution than "nerf".
I hope at the same time they implement this "no jump/dock" they at least give an individual a timer he can check without having to actually dock/jump or attempt to.
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:27:00 -
[24]
I think your missin the point.
"once aggression has ceased between the two parties for a period of time"
Now, according to that statement, neither parties can jump. Seems like, if infact that is correct, then it will make more business for us pirates.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:32:00 -
[25]
I can see traders, carebears, and n00bs complaining about this A LOT.
Like Crimsonjade said, this will make wars more commited - no more lock'n'dock tactics.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:38:00 -
[26]
Are we really sure that the non-agressor will be prevented from warping too?
Not wanting to sound TOO much like a carebear, this sounds terribly balanced in favour of blockade-style pirating - anyone warping into a blockade will be penalised for being passive....
I don't really think the "unable to MWD out of warp" will be an issue - just activate it ASAP and you're still going hella fast.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:40:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 29/07/2003 19:42:04
//this will make wars more commited - no more lock'n'dock tactics//
I'm afraid not, if the camping side feel presure, they always can just warp to the middle of nowhere. The guy camping at gate has the advantage for about 10s, enough to make decision and start plan.
1136 only makes piracy much easier.
joshua, active mwd after warp = start from basic speed, so anyone web you = you move at webed speed.
active mwd before out of warp = start from max speed, web you = slowly decrease your speed from max,
that's a huge difference
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:40:00 -
[28]
The only thing I can see this doing is:
whoever has the warp scrambler on, is gonna be the first dead one.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:44:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Are we really sure that the non-agressor will be prevented from warping too?
Not wanting to sound TOO much like a carebear, this sounds terribly balanced in favour of blockade-style pirating - anyone warping into a blockade will be penalised for being passive....
I don't really think the "unable to MWD out of warp" will be an issue - just activate it ASAP and you're still going hella fast.
still not fast enough to avoid a ganking 
I'm not sure passive people will be blocked, and we also don't know how long they will be blocked for, a time has not yet been mentioned...
intriugiyiiing, I dare say...
.
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:47:00 -
[30]
I can't wait for a npc pirate to fire on a indy while the guy is afk and can't jump. So he sits there till the lil 1k isk bounty pirate kills him :)
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Jowen Datloran
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:51:00 -
[31]
They'll proberly make it so if you're on friendly terms with the corp owning the station or gate you can pass any time.
----------------
What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two |
illuminati
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:52:00 -
[32]
Yes, finally...
if (responsive fire)
{
boolean lagSome = True;
int otherEffects = 0;
}
if (initiating PvP fire)
{
if ( target has been blocked by gate )
{
Lets get it on!
}
else
{
boolean closeUpLikeAnAgressiveNun = True;
int setBlockTimer = 10 minutes;
}
}
Try abusing that one
MWD nerfing was expected, CCP want us to watch gates, no surprise really.
Remember m0o might pod you but CCP is the enemy.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:52:00 -
[33]
Ywev,
Interesting point.
Makes me believe the non-agressor will not suffer any penalty from jumping.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 19:56:00 -
[34]
well for one, more kills will come from the non mwd usage out of warp. ya, so what if a large battlefleet comes in, ya can warp to a planet, or just sit there and let some peeps fire on ya and jump.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:09:00 -
[35]
Yep, from reading the different replies, I can't stop myself thinking that's a very bad solution.
In any case, the issue seem screwed.
If you only need to shoot at someone to stop him from jumping, that's prolly the most dumbest option that could be choosen, that mean that anyone bringing a solid enough force to a gate can keep it CLOSED with almost 85% efficiency for hours.
That's no more a blockade, but a death trap.
If that only stop the attacker and not the other one, you can see lots of others options to screw the things up that completely cancel the reason for what the change was made.
So -> Keep the base docking limitation, but remove the jump limitations.
Jumping doesn't bring you to a safe place, just to another place, so let us use jump gates in peace, the true problem is docking, since once docked you are 100% safe and far from arm.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:12:00 -
[36]
Yeah, keep everything but the "non-aggressor gets jum-blocked" part - it means anyone in an alt can just hit and run to create HUGE queues at busy jumpgates.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Gravedancer
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:23:00 -
[37]
"If you have recently initiated aggression against someone stargates and stations will refuse to allow you to jump and dock respectively, once aggression has ceased between the two parties for a period of time, usage will be allowed again."
Read the quote again. If YOU have initiated aggression, then YOU will be unable to jump until a period of time after agression ceases between BOTH of you.
Im reading that to mean that if person A fires at person B first, then person B can jump or dock whenever they want, but person A will not be able to stop until a while after hostilities ends. That means that if person B decided to pursue the matter, then person A is trapped (being the initiator).
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:23:00 -
[38]
Just another ccp quickfix, which they don't look at the long term problems it produces.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:33:00 -
[39]
guys, you're getting ahead of yourselves.
all we had was the quote at the top of the page to go on.
Now you're calling CCP names over stuff we have merely speculated...
.
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Ywev
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:34:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Ywev on 29/07/2003 20:35:34
Takes two or more people to agress.
Pod ya later..
Ywev
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:36:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 29/07/2003 20:37:00
I think Gravedancer has hit the nail on the head.
This, of course, means he can't jump but the nail can 
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.07.29 20:56:00 -
[42]
after 10 sec your MWD should be up to speed... I see no problem with this do you?
plus add another AB or some overdrives no problem at all...
so you cant turn them on in warp... so what... if you can still turn them on right when you finished warp you might still have the instant speed 
as your engines still dec and you just boost them with your mwd or ab's whatever...
NOW if they would make that the loading process be done a little bit before you warp all things would be great... i mean just a little bit... say when you are 1/2 in the decaccel from warp load all the stuff and then you would not have lag and when you are out of warp you have 10 sec and no loading freezing period...
ya that would solve even more problems 
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Indesin
|
Posted - 2003.07.29 21:05:00 -
[43]
Looks like CCP read this thread:
Regarding Player Killers (like MoO and others) posted in the Idea Lab.
Note my post:
... However, I do agree that players engaging in combat should be forced to finish what they started. Either side 'good' or 'bad' should not be allowed to dock for a certain period of time IF they are the aggressor. Perhaps this rule may change in the case of corporate stations, in that players should be allowed to dock regardless if they belong to a corporate HQ based at the station they are attempting to dock with.
Whatever happens, it should not favor either side of the coin. EVE revolves around conflict, whether it is market competition, bounty hunting, senseless murders, assassinations, or corporate war. If you canĘt handle the combat, then stay within the policed regions of space.
But yes, players engaging in combat should be forced to finish what they started.
At least we know they are listening.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:10:00 -
[44]
Take care you don't strain something patting yourself on the back......
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Indesin
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:13:00 -
[45]
I'm good, I got one of those back-patting devices...
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:15:00 -
[46]
""after 10 sec your MWD should be up to speed... ""
Not sure which ship you're flying but mine doesn't accelerate that fast.
But by your own words 10 seconds. This added to every jump? Personally I have a huge problem with adding time to what can only be described as a grind. Missions, Trading, exploring etc...
I don't want to spend more time in travel, I want to spend more time DOING.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:25:00 -
[47]
i think it would be stupid for someone to fire at you and you cant jump...
lol what heck is that? i mean it is lame thats like just because someone is shooting you, you are at some kind of fault... oh ya your fault for being there 
also i dont think you should be able to use a web stasis on a MWD because as the name says its a micro warp drive... if you look at the name its not a normal ship engine, you would need something like a warp scrambler or something... but having a MWD scrambler would pretty much kill traveling and make for very big disadavatage or is it?
you know what is better for stations? and gates??
simple the gates and stations should care for them seleves only...
do this... station/gate says to the person fired on another player "move away of the sation's range safe distace or the guns will open fire" same thing will go for the person shot at...
that way you wont be able to stay by gates and stations and have battles and cause any form of dmg to the stations or gate and to anyone else who might be using them...
a good range would be out of docking or jumping range... that should be "safe" range. If you c an dock or jump then pretty much you could cause dmg to the station/gate
its like when there is a fight in the bar they say hey hey take it out side... that kind of idea
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Drutort
|
Posted - 2003.07.29 21:29:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Drutort on 29/07/2003 21:31:08
hmm on my moa i use a good ab and a good mwd and i have skills that add to both.. and hmm i do 3km/s i think i might add a overdrive but anyway if my ship can do it then others can too
so it means you need to add more speed to your ship that all... ya i will miss the instant 3km/s and then jump under 10 sec of travel... so be it...
maybe they should add to missions more reward as travel will be longer?
as far as Player stuff well prices will go up as it will take longer time to travel
maybe you miss the instant dock that was in beta
also maybe now you will be looking for a ship that can use a mwd and can accel fast and has high speed etc... now there is more trade off and other ships that might not be used have at least some form of advantage over others...
did you people ever think of that?
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Molly
|
Posted - 2003.07.29 21:39:00 -
[49]
PARTIES BEING ATTACKED AND DEFENDING THEM SELF CAN STILL JUMP.
So the patch made gate camping harder.
Go figure it out on the test server and stop the whining!
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Indesin
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:42:00 -
[50]
Everyone with a female character should angle the camera down like Molly does upon character creation.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:46:00 -
[51]
This hasn't made gate camping harder.
It's made getting away with gate camping MUCH harder.
Everyone knew the "camp within jumping distance" tactic was too foolproof for it to remain untouched for long.
I think pirates will still find a way around it - depends on the length of time between agression and being allowed to jump.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:49:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 29/07/2003 21:50:51
active MWD before out of warp is the way to anti web, because even somebody webbed you, he can only slowly decrease your speed, now if you start from basic speed and speed up, when somebody web you, you are screwed.
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Kerago
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:51:00 -
[53]
Quote:
well for one, more kills will come from the non mwd usage out of warp. ya, so what if a large battlefleet comes in, ya can warp to a planet, or just sit there and let some peeps fire on ya and jump.
That's what is so frigging fantastic about this idea. If you want to run, you still have a chance to. What you can't do is fight to try and kill a cruiser or two or a weak battleship, then jump as soon as your shields drop (as has been my experience so far in PvP). A decision has to be made and stuck to: Fight or run. No more really annoying gate jockying, no escape for people who have bitten off more than they can chew.
The outcome of this patch should be that more ships actually get destroyed in combat.This is a GOOD THING. The game needs a higher turnover to stimulate the economy. Non-pvpers who complain about this patch are stupid. Sure, they'll die more if they do stupid stuff like fly solo into a blockade, but they'll also have a much bigger market for ships and gear. More ships lost will result in corps being forced to capitulate when they can no longer afford to die. All in all this will add greatly to the depth of combat in eve.
Additionally, there is actually a point in warp scrambling as the only way to escape from a gate if you've been in combat is to warp out. Sure, that makes the EW ships more of a target, but that's just common sense. This is going to add a lot more fun to combat, in that it adds a lot more risk. A smaller force cannot simple flaunt the game mechanics by jumping and docking as soon as they feel they may take losses.
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Ya Hya Chouhada, Long live the fighters. |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:56:00 -
[54]
The way around it will be to jump/dock as soon as a larger fleet warps in and no to try to do ANYTHING against them.
Until now we have been at least fighting a bit before jumping away from a superior fleet. I think this is history now. The timer is too long to risk ships :P.
If the intention of the patch was to enforce some level of combat... I don't know, it takes also a lot of potential combat out.
But I like it anyway, I have been always asking for docking / jumping timers.
Next improvement should allow us to warp to all deep space scanner results.
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"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Ilia Volyova
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Posted - 2003.07.29 21:58:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Ilia Volyova on 29/07/2003 23:50:52
It would be quite dumb to get just a fleet to the pirate.
As was said (and ignored), you need to work with a bait.
Take a ship - for example a indy with some good items in it's cargo, mins or trade goods. Best would be a badger 2 or iterion m5.
The Indy captain refuses to stop or eject his cargo - pirate starts shooting - into the shield hardeners of the indy. At this moment a attack force warps in from the other side of the gate and arrives just in the face of the pirate.
Just as the first attack ships arrives the indy activates it's warp scrambler - the bait has turned predator. The pirate cannot flee - by the time he has killed the indy (if he even manages) another ship of the attack force has already scrambled him. He's history...
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:04:00 -
[56]
What makes you guys think people camping at gate can not warp out to no where when superor force arrive? They have plenty of time to decide fight or warp.
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Reventlov
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:11:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Reventlov on 29/07/2003 22:12:53
Two things.
Can't jump or dock for certain amount of time after preemptive aggression. Fine, depending on time frame. 2 minutes, good. 5 minutes, goof.
Not being able to activate MWD in warp. Hmm, yeah, cuz activating a secondary warp field, inside the primary one would make real sense... And it means that aggreesors are actually stuck in systems they attacked if cornered. So to me it makes sense both from a gamplay/balance perspective, and more importantly from an rpg perspective.
People who still haven't discovered how local chat or the map works, really deserve to run into Zap, Stavr0s or other lamers.
GG ccp.
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Reventlov
Officer, TacDiv
The Collective
Stain Alliance |
Skillz
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:15:00 -
[58]
I don't think that people with a negative security status should be able to use any stations in Imperial Space, at all.
The ban for aggressors to use system facilities and risking being trapped there is a long over due remedy against gatecampers that risks nothing since they so heroically just sit < 15 km from the gate ready to jump thru and go to that bookmark so no one can get them.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:15:00 -
[59]
I'm getting tired of people saying this will make it harder on the bounty hunters.
First of all - the scenario where the big good guy fleet jumps in, fires on the pirate vessel, and the pirate vessel simply jumps out leaving the good guy force cooling it's heels. If the good guy force is this dumb, they deserve it.
If you outnumber the enemy that much, *don't* have everyone open fire - one guy will do. If the pirate doesn't return fire, the one guy can kill him. If he does, then everyone else gets to fire too, knowing the pirate can't escape.
And please remember that depending on how long the timer is, it is very likely a large force of ships could show up while the pirate is still unable to jump due to the last trader he stopped. If necessary the blockade busting force could even try to send in a decoy indy to entice the pirates into firing, then warp in immediately afterwards.
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:18:00 -
[60]
This will shorten the negotiation time.
All your ISK are belong to us. 10 seconds to comply.
10...
9...
8...
7...
6...
5...
4...
3...
2...
1...
Sound of ship destruction.
Sound of pod destruction.
I have been once negotiating for like 40 minutes with an indy driver. I don't think I will do it again at a gate :P.
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"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
zoop
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:26:00 -
[61]
molly your such a dweeb
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*My God, it's full of gimps*
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:27:00 -
[62]
skills, how about all the positive sec people not being able to dock anywhere outside the empire at the same time?
probably not too popular an idea.
It's been debated before, and I think the consensus was that they'd just use alts anyway.
.
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LiverpoolFC
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:27:00 -
[63]
Not able to use MWD in warp should not be a problem. Hope it doesn't apply to every device although if it does when does the device stop working. I can hit warp and have to wait sometime before it kicks in. I may have my shield recharger on if under attack. Worse still if i am hung up on a roid or a station, will i not be able to use AB or WMD to help bump me off the roid/station?
As for the gate issue as long as I can try and run the blockade and jump (or die) i don't see the problem. However should I make the jump or die then the agressor should then be free to jump/dock as the agression is over whatever the result.
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Tatter
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:29:00 -
[64]
Hmm, while this is very interesting it does have it's pros and con's.
Personally I think that is someoen shoots at someone else then they should not be able to dock or use ANY stayion/warpgate in th entire system. As it is, shoot person at gate A, pop off to Gate B, jump. (assuming I read the quote right).
It will make it harder to pass pirate blockades solo but then this is an online game, a massively multiplayer game, i fyu cannot go to local and organise a litte convoy / mass rush throuhg a guarded gate then the sort of peopel who are playing this should go play Elite since htey obviously not that bothered about multiplayer.
On plus side, Fleet actions are going to be kickarse.
Now we jsut need to sotp people being able to instajump and instadock gates form certain directions so that we can actually guard some gates.
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Fusco T
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:35:00 -
[65]
""Worse still if i am hung up on a roid or a station, will i not be able to use AB or WMD to help bump me off the roid/station?""
Another EXCELLENT point. So now when this happens we will have to log and wait 2-3 minutes and relog and hope nobody destroyed our ship in the mean time.
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2003.07.30 08:55:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Luc Boye on 30/07/2003 08:55:30
Quote:
MWD nerfing was expected, CCP want us to watch gates, no surprise really.
Remember m0o might pod you but CCP is the enemy.
CCP wants me to pay $$$ a month to log on and sit by my PC watching a gate? Sounds mighty stupid to me, things were ok as they were, all you had to do was to make a bookmark so you can warp out right on top of the gate.
Not like m0o & wannabes are camping in 250 systems, you need like 5-10 bookmarks in the whole galaxy at most :P
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2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Beringe
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Posted - 2003.07.30 12:00:00 -
[67]
But you can still arrive out of warp with MWD on...
...if you have enough cap.
The patch changes *nothing* about what modules you can activate *before* you warp, does it? So if you can run the MWD the whole time (better warp close to the blockade, Holmes, so you can make it), you'll manage to run it anyway.
But you'll have to notice that there is a blockade in the system first, for that to work. No automatically escaping blockades with a single module...
...and that is a good thing.
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"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
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